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Car Forum / Saturn Cars / January 2005I love traction control
We're having a heck of a blizard today in Metro New York. Had to make a few erands before the snow got too high and was driving in aobut 4" of powder snow. The 'low traction' light was on for a good portion of the trip and it was certainly no speed demon as the system cut the throttle to keep traction. Even made it up a pretty steep hill slow and steady. My son, with his silverado 2500, was having more handling issues than I was. I did see something new on my '01 lw300, The hvac blower stopped working on high for about 5 minutes after a start. Lower speeds were all working. Got to look into that one. Don't know if it was something loose in the right side passenger compartment fuse panel. Noticed this right after a passenger gettin in. Might have kicked something? The AC must have been out too since the windows fogged up terribly. City is doing a good job of keeping the streets clear but we now have about 6" on the ground with a predicted accumulation of up to two feet. I'm in for the night now... Oppie > We're having a heck of a blizard today in Metro New > I did see something new on my '01 lw300, The hvac blower stopped working > on [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > since > the windows fogged up terribly. I thought the AC cuts off (turns off) when outside temps drop to very cold? I had mine shut off going over the Grapevine (a piece of Interstate 5 north of Los Angeles) in the winter once - had the same probs with the fogging windows (of course I wasn't smart enough to slow down). > > We're having a heck of a blizard today in Metro New > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > of Los Angeles) in the winter once - had the same probs with the fogging > windows (of course I wasn't smart enough to slow down). At WOT the ac kicks off and when the engine is about to stall it kicks off. Theory: Since the computer reduces engine rpm's when the traction control comes on it may also turn the ac compressor off. A/C doesn't work when outside temperature is below 40 degrees or so. The refrigerant is so cold that it never vaporizes and therefore the A/C can't work. For this reason, the A/C compressor is disabled. I have a Ford (in addition to my Saturn). Driving along the other day in cold temperatures, the A/C compressor finally kicked in after about 30 minutes of driving. I think the under hood temperature finally got warm enough to allow the compressor to run. If you are having problems with fogging windows, be sure you are not using the recirculate mode. Bringing in cool outside air and heating it should still drop the humidity enough to help keep the windows clear. Ed > > We're having a heck of a blizard today in Metro New > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > of Los Angeles) in the winter once - had the same probs with the fogging > windows (of course I wasn't smart enough to slow down). > We're having a heck of a blizard today in Metro New York. Had to make a few > erands before the snow got too high and was driving in aobut 4" of powder [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Oppie About a foot in my driveway (about 200 yards). I got it plowed out about an hour ago. I'm betting it will be filled back in when I get home from work in the morning. Ken >We're having a heck of a blizard today in Metro New York. Had to make a few >erands before the snow got too high and was driving in aobut 4" of powder [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >Oppie Don't have traction control(don't know if it would have worked on the unplowed hills we have), but have spider-spikes. My SL2 rammed throught even plowed up snow like it wasn't there. Traveling even felt better in deeper snow. I love em, and I didn't even get my hands dirty putting them on. later, tom @ www.FindMeShelter.com <newsgroups01REMOVEME@intertainia.com> wrote in message > Don't have traction control(don't know if it would have worked on the > unplowed hills we have), but have spider-spikes. My SL2 rammed > throught even plowed up snow like it wasn't there. Traveling even > felt better in deeper snow. > > I love em, and I didn't even get my hands dirty putting them on. Neve heard of 'spider spikes'. What are they? I thought about getting studded snow tires but I spend most of my driving on the highway. For the few times I would need them, the noise wasn't worth it. Oppie ...couldn't get conventional chains on an S series with tight tire/fender clearances... http://www.spikes-spiders.com/ > <newsgroups01REMOVEME@intertainia.com> wrote in message >> Don't have traction control(don't know if it would have worked on the [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Oppie Interesting product though not as inexpensive as chains. I doubt that chains would fit the L series either... Will put this on the wish list for things to buy after all the taxes get paid. Regards, Oppie > ...couldn't get conventional chains on an S series with tight tire/fender > clearances... [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> >> Neve heard of 'spider spikes'. What are they? >Interesting product though not as inexpensive as chains. I doubt that chains >would fit the L series either... >Will put this on the wish list for things to buy after all the taxes get >paid. > Regards, > Oppie Check ebay. Since saturns couldn't use chains and cables are just a pain, saturn sold/gave-away these items with the saturns. So 'saturn' spider spikes already have the hardward specific to the sl sized tires. Since the spider spikes lasted longer than some sl models, there are people trying to get rid of them. hth, >> ...couldn't get conventional chains on an S series with tight tire/fender >> clearances... [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >>> >>> Neve heard of 'spider spikes'. What are they? later, tom @ www.CarFleaMarket.com ><newsgroups01REMOVEME@intertainia.com> wrote in message >> Don't have traction control(don't know if it would have worked on the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Neve heard of 'spider spikes'. What are they? http://www.spikes-spiders.com/ >I thought about getting studded snow tires but I spend most of my driving on >the highway. For the few times I would need them, the noise wasn't worth it. Good thing about these things, they go on easy, and really bite into the snow. I was climbing snow packed/icey roades 4x4 were having a hard time on. Now remember they should come off when you don't need them, since on dry payment they feel like driving on rail road ties. > Oppie later, tom @ www.FindMeShelter.com > I did see something new on my '01 lw300, The hvac blower stopped working on > high for about 5 minutes after a start. Lower speeds were all working. Got > to look into that one. Don't know if it was something loose in the right > side passenger compartment fuse panel. Noticed this right after a passenger > gettin in. Might have kicked something? This was real easy to figure out looking at the schematics of your car. On high your powers sent through a relay and on any other setting its sent through your resistor pack. If your relay is cutting out that would be your problem. Check your left instrument panel fuse block for this relay. > This was real easy to figure out looking at the schematics of your car. > On high your powers sent through a relay and on any other setting its > sent through your resistor pack. If your relay is cutting out that would > be your problem. Check your left instrument panel fuse block for this > relay. Thanks, I thought I remembered seeing a relay in the service manual that only worked on blower High. Was out on the road a few times today and the blower was working properly on all speeds. Will see if the problem comes back and trace it out then. City did a great job of clearing the roads. We had about 14"(hard to say with all the wind drifts). Hardest part was getting out of the driveway after being plowed in. Oppie Are you sure your fresh air intake wasn't clogged with snow or you didn't have the RECIRC button on? That'll make 'er fog up and possibly overheat the fan. The A/C seems to work in any temperature. When I get in the car with wet clothes and the windows fog, just turning on the A/C with the heat clears them right up - just like the MAX DEFROST setting clears the windshield..  SignatureDana C. Rohleder Port Kent, NY "I want to appreciate those of you who wear our nation's uniform for your sacrifice." G. W. Bush - Jacksonville, Fla., Jan. 14, 2005 Don't know what's going on but the AC doesn't seem to do squat to de-humidify in cold weather. I usually wind up keeping a window open a crack to keep the air flowing. This is the first vehicle I've had that uses R134a refrigerant so wasn't sure if this is peculiar to this type. Other vehicles with R12 would clear the humidity almost instantly. One of these days, I have to get a gauge set and check the pressures. Too low a pressure and the system shuts down to prevent evaporator freeze-up. Fogged windows is practically the only complaint that I've had with the lw300. Oppie > Are you sure your fresh air intake wasn't clogged with snow or you didn't > have the RECIRC button on? That'll make 'er fog up and possibly overheat [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > clothes and the windows fog, just turning on the A/C with the heat clears > them right up - just like the MAX DEFROST setting clears the windshield.. Something must be amiss because mine rarely fogs and if it does, clears up almost instantly when I kick in the A/C - even in sub-zero weather, contrary to other poster's claims that it doesn't work under 40 degrees. Possibly there is enough heat/moisture exchange just in the interior coil alone to drop the dewpoint enough to clear the windows. SignatureDana 2002 LW300 > Don't know what's going on but the AC doesn't seem to do squat to > de-humidify in cold weather. I usually wind up keeping a window open a [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >> clothes and the windows fog, just turning on the A/C with the heat clears >> them right up - just like the MAX DEFROST setting clears the windshield.. Well at sub-zero temperatures, there is no way the A/C is going to kick in. It is clearing the window becasue heating the outside air is lowering the humidity. In the summer, you need the A/C to lower the humidty since you are bringing in warm moist air. Without the A/C you'd never be able to lower the humidity in the summer without baking yourself. in the winter, when the weather is really cold, just heating the outside air with the heater core is enough to lower the humidity. According to the shop manual for my Saturn Vue, the compressor is disabled in the intake air temerpature drops below 36 degrees F and is not enabled again until the temperature goes above 40 degrees F. I believe all cars are similar. There is very little difference between R12 and R134a as far as low temperature operation is concerned. For the curious, here is the Compressor Clutch Control Parameters for a Saturn Vue (4 cylinder): Compressor Control Logic The A/C compressor and engine cooling fan will be controlled by PCM/ECM/BCM control logic under the following conditions: Coolant Temperature Disabled if engine coolant temperature exceeds 117°C (242°F) . Enabled when coolant temperature is 114°C (237°F) . Low Intake Air Temperature Disabled if intake air temperature goes below 2°C (36°F) Enabled when intake air temperature is above 4°C (40°F) . A/C System Pressure High Disabled if A/C system pressure exceeds 2945 kPa (427 psi) . Enabled when A/C system pressure is 2069 kPa (300 psi) . Low Disabled if A/C system pressure goes below 210 kPa (31 psi) . Enabled when A/C system pressure is 259 kPa (38 psi) . Engine Speed High Disabled if engine speed exceeds 6250 rpm . Enabled if engine speed goes below 4750 rpm . Low Disabled if engine speed goes below 350 rpm . Enabled if engine speed exceeds 600 rpm . Throttle Position Disabled if throttle position exceeds 95% . Enabled when throttle position goes below 89% for 15 seconds . Battery Voltage High Disabled if battery voltage exceeds 18 volts . Enabled when battery voltage is less than 17 volts . Low Disabled if battery voltage goes below 10.5 volts . Enabled when battery voltage exceeds 11 volts . Evaporator Low Ambient Protection (ELAP) The refrigerant temperature at the temperature sensor in the TXV controls cycling of the compressor clutch to prevent freezing of the evaporator core. The compressor is disabled when the temperature goes below 3°C (37°F) and vehicle speed is greater than 8 km/h (5 mph) . The compressor Is enabled when the temperature exceeds 4°C (40°F) . The minimum time off is 4 seconds . Compressor Engagement During Engine Crank The compressor clutch is engaged during engine cranking to cycle oil through the A/C system. The clutch is engaged when the engine speed is above 100 rpm . Regards, Ed White > Something must be amiss because mine rarely fogs and if it does, clears up > almost instantly when I kick in the A/C - even in sub-zero weather, contrary [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > >> "I want to appreciate those of you who wear our nation's uniform for your > >> sacrifice." G. W. Bush - Jacksonville, Fla., Jan. 14, 2005 But you are always heating outside air when the heater is on unless you have recirc on - correct? I never run recirc, just the normal heater. But if the interior fogs, with the heat on, all I do is turn on the A/C button without changing any heater settings and the windows clear very quickly. Keep in mind, this isn't a Vue, so the system may be set up differently. I don't know if the HVAC unit is Opel (Europe) or not. Possibly the air circulating over the evaporator coil alone when you activate the switch takes out the humidity, but I don't know why it would if the A/C wasn't operating. SignatureDana C. Rohleder Port Kent, NY > Well at sub-zero temperatures, there is no way the A/C is > going to kick in. It is clearing the window becasue heating [quoted text clipped - 137 lines] >> >> your >> >> sacrifice." G. W. Bush - Jacksonville, Fla., Jan. 14, 2005 >But you are always heating outside air when the heater is on unless you have >recirc on - correct? I never run recirc, just the normal heater. But if the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >over the evaporator coil alone when you activate the switch takes out the >humidity, but I don't know why it would if the A/C wasn't operating. Just heating air reduces it relative humidity. By running the A/C you remove the water content, further reducing the relative humidity. So, both should help remove fog from inside your windows. later, tom @ www.ChopURL.com > Something must be amiss because mine rarely fogs and if it does, clears up > almost instantly when I kick in the A/C - even in sub-zero weather, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Dana > 2002 LW300 Thanks Dana for the input. The windows fog in cold weather only when the outside humidity is near 100% and near freezing. I think that I'll monitor the compressor clutch line to see if/when it cuts out. It is running at idle. Since I did not see anyone else mention this, you can also help reduce the interior window fogging by cleaning the window. Seems that the fog condenses on the dust and dirt so if the window glass is perfectly clean, it stays clearer longer. Bob > Thanks Dana for the input. > The windows fog in cold weather only when the outside humidity is near 100% > and near freezing. I think that I'll monitor the compressor clutch line to > see if/when it cuts out. It is running at idle. > > Something must be amiss because mine rarely fogs and if it does, clears up > > almost instantly when I kick in the A/C - even in sub-zero weather, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > and near freezing. I think that I'll monitor the compressor clutch line to > see if/when it cuts out. It is running at idle. Funny....mine fogs up once in a while too. What could be causing this? The symptoms are that it happens at night and most times I'm not in the front seat, nor am I alone... ;) Scott |
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