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Car Forum / Saturn Cars / December 2005Saturn Spring Hill Factory To Close
"A Different Kind of Car Company" ------ ------ > "Just Another Struggling GM Brand" http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051121/ap_on_bi_ge/gm > "A Different Kind of Car Company" ------ > > ------ > "Just Another Struggling GM Brand" > > http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051121/ap_on_bi_ge/gm where else do they assemble saturn ? >>"A Different Kind of Car Company" ------ >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > where else do they assemble saturn ? The "L" was built in Delaware. The new minivan comes from the same factory as other GM minivans. The Vue could shift to the Ontario plant alongside the Equinox. The Sky could be built allow with the Solstice in Delaware. My guess is that the Ion will be replaced with something from Korea or China by the time the 2008 models role out. GM said that one production line is staying open in Spring Hill, which is a bit confusing. Maybe that is the new Sky line. What GM didn't say today is anything about Korea and China. I think that they are quitely planning to ramp up production for export in one or both of them but are keeping it out of the press. John > What GM didn't say today is anything about Korea and China. I think > that they are quitely planning to ramp up production for export in one > or both of them but are keeping it out of the press. It's possible that some other automakers will purchase factories that are relatively new. I.e. Toyota and Honda are capacity constrained, and have a big committment to U.S. manufacturing. There is a big reluctance by many consumers to purchase cars built outside the U.S., but little reluctance to buy foreign nameplates that are built in the U.S.. Unless we see $1.50/gallon gasoline again soon, Ford and GM may not survive, since all their profits came from trucks and SUVs, and they've not demonstrated any ability to design desirable smaller cars. It's more likely that GM will move more production to Mexico, than to Korea or China. > >>"A Different Kind of Car Company" ------ > >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > John Thanx John, just what I need, a Chinese Saturn..... Laz >>What GM didn't say today is anything about Korea and China. I think >>that they are quitely planning to ramp up production for export in one [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Laz I'm not saying I like the idea, but just that it seems likely at some point. Almost anything can be made much more cheaply in Asia than it can be in the US, and the majority of buyers are not willing to pay more for US built anything. John > I'm not saying I like the idea, but just that it seems likely at some > point. Almost anything can be made much more cheaply in Asia than it > can be in the US, and the majority of buyers are not willing to pay more > for US built anything. This is not true, especially when it comes to vehicles. If it was, Toyota and Honda would have built all their North American factories in Mexico, rather than in the U.S., or would have moved all of their Asian factories to Thailand or Vietnam. It it was true, then GM and Ford would likely have gone out of the car business already (yes, CAFE rules would probably have kept them in it to a degree). Because the domestic content laws are so convoluted, the only sensible thing to do when "buying American" is to look at the final assembly location. Looking at the source of major components is misleading, because non-U.S. components can be included in the U.S. content for components. >> I'm not saying I like the idea, but just that it seems likely at some >> point. Almost anything can be made much more cheaply in Asia than it >> can be in the US, and the majority of buyers are not willing to pay >> more for US built anything. > > This is not true, especially when it comes to vehicles. The transplant factories in the US are being built for political reasons, not for cost reasons. John We owned and enjoyed 1992 and 2000 SL-1's. Good cars, simple and reliable; no complaints. But Saturn as we know it is done. Sad to them go... Christopher Platt New York > The transplant factories in the US are being built for political > reasons, not for cost reasons. It's partly political, but it's also for marketing. It is cheaper to build in the U.S. than in Japan, and it shields the companies from currency fluctations, but it's even cheaper to build in Mexico or Brazil. The companies with the transplant factories in the U.S. make a very big deal of the fact that they are manufacturing in the U.S., with good reason. In my area, we're all much happier that Toyotas are being built in the NUMMI factory, which was a closed GM factory, than we are that the nearby Milpitas Ford factory was turned into a giant shopping mall, with a Ford Fairlane under glass, in a corner of the mall. Toyota is expanding in the U.S., and with their Subaru investment they will likely revitalize Subaru and need more capacity for that line as well. Hopefully they'll take some of the GM factories, like they saved Fremont. >>> "A Different Kind of Car Company" ------ >>> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > John My best guess of the two would be Korea. I had a Daewoo prior to the GM buy-out...and it actually wasn't a bad car until GM got their hands on it and made it an Aveo. The plants in Korea have the production capabilities, but I just don't know if GM can/will let them ramp up again for North American production when China is coming up so fast. I'd say they are more likely to turn the Kroean plants over to making small cars for the Chinese market. One thing is for sure....if GM keeps knocking off the cars I own so fast, I won't be owning too many more from them. I want something I can pay off and run for a while before needing a replacement 'cause I can't get parts as the model has been discontinued, bought out or plain abandoned. Michael Halliwell > The "L" was built in Delaware. The new minivan comes from the same > factory as other GM minivans. The Vue could shift to the Ontario plant [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > John I thought ION production was moving to the Cobalt plant in Lordstown Ohio. I'm not sure if the ION is already on the same frame as the Cobalt or if the ION will be redesigned to be on the Cobalt frame. That plant has the capacity for something like 350,000 cars a year, more than all the Cobalts and IONs currently being made, and that's not listed as one that's closing. Of course one way to increase sales of Cobalts and IONs would be TO PRODUCE A WAGON VERSION !!!!!!! HINT FREAKING HINT ! ! ! Maybe a cheaper (maybe slightly smaller) version of the Pontiac Vibe. Something that's in the mid 30s in gas mileage rather than the mid 20s. ron 94 SL1 119,000 miles >I thought ION production was moving to the Cobalt plant in Lordstown Ohio. >I'm not sure if the ION is already on the same frame as the Cobalt or if the >ION will be redesigned to be on the Cobalt frame. Cobalt and Ion share the GM delta platform. >Of course one way to increase sales of Cobalts and IONs would be TO PRODUCE >A WAGON VERSION !!!!!!! >HINT FREAKING HINT ! ! ! HHR? >Maybe a cheaper (maybe slightly smaller) version of the Pontiac Vibe. >Something that's in the mid 30s in gas mileage rather than the mid 20s. Well, that would be the Vibe. The HHR doesn't get as good fuel economy.  Signature------------------------------------------------------------------------ Timothy J. Lee Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome. No warranty of any kind is provided with this message. >> I thought ION production was moving to the Cobalt plant in Lordstown Ohio. >> I'm not sure if the ION is already on the same frame as the Cobalt or if the >> ION will be redesigned to be on the Cobalt frame. > > Cobalt and Ion share the GM delta platform. That's why it's rather strange regarding how different they are in terms of crash safety. The Cobalt is top-rated, the Ion is near the bottom. http://www.iihs.org/ratings/summary.aspx?class=40 It may be due to the type of body panels being used on each. The polymer panel/with the reinforcements has never been as good as unibody in terms of safety. <<Well, that would be the Vibe. The HHR doesn't get as good fuel economy>> The difference is pretty small - about 13% HHR is 23/30, the Vibe is 29/34 At 15,000 miles per year, the HHR would use 500 gal vs. 441 gal for the Vibe, a difference of about $125 at today's gas price at Sam's Club. Or a little bit more than $2 per week. John Cowart > >I thought ION production was moving to the Cobalt plant in Lordstown Ohio. > >I'm not sure if the ION is already on the same frame as the Cobalt or if the [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Well, that would be the Vibe. The HHR doesn't get as good fuel economy. IMHO the HHR is a stunningly nondescript, and at the same time ugly, vehicle. At least the PT Cruiser looks interesting. The HHR looks like a truck someone tried to beat (with an ugly stick) into a wagon. Is the HHR also on the delta/Lordstown platform? The thought of going from Plymouth to Chrysler to Saturn and then to Pontiac isn't helping my schizophrenia but the Vibe fits my current wants and I just can't imagine myself in a Toyota Matrix. ron I actually almost bought an HHR until the dealer tried screwing me on my trade in a bit. I didn't think they were ugly, but kind of cool. They are built (and basically are) share the Cobalt & Ion platforms. I ended up buying a Vue and so far am very pleased with it. I did have a chuckle though...GM must use the same interior electrical harnesses in the Vue, HHR, Cobalt,etc as the center dash (radio, heat, etc) steering wheel, etc are virtually identical in regard to layout with some cosmetic changes, so I ended up getting some of the things I had wanted in the HHR, in the Vue. Both 4 banger versions use the same 2.2L engine. When I test drove the HHR, it drove very nicely and had better pick-up than the Vue, but I'm guessing the HHR is a little lighter. The big thing I didn't like about the HHR was it had extremely poor visibility out the rear view window. The back seat head rests obscure the rear view very badly leaving a small square in the center of the back window visible. The other thing was that the colors make a huge difference. The way the front is rounded, the curves round the front so much that certain darker colors make it lose all definition. The dark silver (which we liked it the catalog) looked like a hearse. I'm actually thankful that I had problems with the dealer as the '06 Vue kind of fell in my lap. The manual tranny shifts very smooth, and I ended up going with the black and the chrome package w/ chrome roof rails gives it some nice definition. The only thing I don't like visually is that I wish the rims available for the V6, were an option on the 4. So far, a happy owner. Scott > > >I thought ION production was moving to the Cobalt plant in Lordstown > Ohio. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > can't imagine myself in a Toyota Matrix. > ron > IMHO the HHR is a stunningly nondescript, and at the same time ugly, > vehicle. At least the PT Cruiser looks interesting. The HHR looks like a > truck someone tried to beat (with an ugly stick) into a wagon. I agree, plus it has defeciencies that prevent me from buying any vehicle. > Is the HHR also on the delta/Lordstown platform? > The thought of going from Plymouth to Chrysler to Saturn and then to Pontiac > isn't helping my schizophrenia but the Vibe fits my current wants and I just > can't imagine myself in a Toyota Matrix. The Matrix an excellent vehicle within it's capabilities. I recommend getting the original, the Matrix. Toyota service people understand it. To GM service people it is an odd ball in their stable, as are those Korean cars GM is importing. "One production line will close and one will remain open in Spring Hill, Tenn." > "A Different Kind of Car Company" ------ > > ------ > "Just Another Struggling GM Brand" > > http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051121/ap_on_bi_ge/gm They are shutting down the Ion line. Ed > "A Different Kind of Car Company" ------ > > ------ > "Just Another Struggling GM Brand" > > http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051121/ap_on_bi_ge/gm I can clarify. We discussed this at work today after reading the latest media post from Jill Lajdziak. (Saturn CEO). It was in the plans anyways to move production of the ION for the model yr. '07 to Youngstown OH where the Cobalt is built as it's already on the same platform. Today's news only clarifies the plan. Line 1 at Spring Hill (now called GM Spring Hill plant)where the ION is currently built will be shut down and production of the ION will be moved to OH at the end of '06. That means that '07 model year IONs may be the last polymer panel IONs. In addition, GM is closing the birthplace of the cross branded Relay in late '06 too. This doesnt mean the end of Saturn, its a new era for them. They intend on bringing out a newer european looking line of vehicles, starting with the SKY. IMHO not a bad start, cant wait to see whats new. Long live the S car, bring on the kappa platform cars. :-) marx404 > I can clarify. > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Long live the S car, bring on the kappa platform cars. :-) > marx404 So, for 08 on, all the Saturns will be stamped sheet-metal ? Laz <<production of the ION will be moved to OH at the end of '06. That means that '07 model year IONs may be the last polymer panel IONs.>> Why can't they do polymer panels in Ohio too? John Cowart > <<production of the ION will be moved to OH at the end of '06. That > means that '07 model year IONs may be the last polymer panel IONs.>> > > Why can't they do polymer panels in Ohio too? They could, but it adds a lot to the manufacturing cost to do polymer panels. It's unlikely that polymer panels are going to continue. > <<production of the ION will be moved to OH at the end of '06. That > means that '07 model year IONs may be the last polymer panel IONs.>> > > Why can't they do polymer panels in Ohio too? > > John Cowart GM has been playing around with polymer panels for years. Remember the Pontiac Fiero? How about the first generation GM minivans. Both used some plastic panels. Plastic panels create at least as many problems as they solve. Furthermore, plastic resin costs have gone sky high as natural gas and oil prices have gone up. Even Rubbermaid is on a full court press to make and sell more steel trinkets instead of the plastic they are known for in order to improve profitability. Polymer panels will surely be phased out of future Saturn models. It was a dumb gimmick to start with. John >> <<production of the ION will be moved to OH at the end of '06. That >> means that '07 model year IONs may be the last polymer panel IONs.>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Polymer panels will surely be phased out of future Saturn models. It > was a dumb gimmick to start with. Why? I actually think they're cool. It is one of the reasons I bought my wife's car. Oh, and the Fiero is one of the coolest cars out of GM in the past thirty years. Especially the GT. Right up there with the long gone Impala. Signaturekai www.perfectreign.com linux - genuine windows replacement part > Polymer panels will surely be phased out of future Saturn models. It > was a dumb gimmick to start with. It was a great marketing gimmick. Unfortunately the polymer panels are expensive to fabricate, and painting was a big problem. Also, it increases the cost of the reinforcements underneath the panels. I'm sure that they will be history very soon. <<I'm sure that they will be history very soon.>> That's unfortunate - they were one of my favorite features. My 92 is on it's last legs mechanically at 150K+ miles, but still looks great. Perhaps when the first steel-panel Saturns arrive at our local dealership, I will go down there and kick-test them like they used to show in the TV ads. John Cowart Yeah, and i'm sure they'll start making the corvette out of steel also. Face it, the plastic panels is what saturn is. They're here to stay in at least some of the models. SignatureSteve Barker > <<I'm sure that they will be history very soon.>> > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > John Cowart > Yeah, and i'm sure they'll start making the corvette out of steel also. > Face it, the plastic panels is what saturn is. They're here to stay in at > least some of the models. Sorry Steve they are not....The ION will be phased out of plastic panels in Jan of 2007 and the VUE between April and September of 2007. This is fact. There are no other plants that build plastic panel cars/trucks (the Corvette is not plastic...it is a composite). Spring Hill will be converted from a polymer panel plant to a steel body plant in 2007. The plants that will get the next gen. ION and VUE will be steel body plants...no polymer... We'll see. SignatureSteve Barker >> Yeah, and i'm sure they'll start making the corvette out of steel also. >> Face it, the plastic panels is what saturn is. They're here to stay in [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > get > the next gen. ION and VUE will be steel body plants...no polymer... That we will....Oh, BTW...I work for GM at the Spring Hill Manufacturing Center on the VUE line. So my information is basically 99% correct. I get laid off in 2007 to convert the plant to steel panel and the ION line folks get laid off next Christmas. Their portion of the plant will be stripped out then. This was not a last minute thing. It has been in the works for the past couple of years, as the decision was made then to drop polymer panels from the GM lineup. > We'll see. > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > get > > the next gen. ION and VUE will be steel body plants...no polymer... Does that mean that the last year for the poly side Vue's will be the '08 model? Or will it be a seamless transfer? Just curious on how those things work...I can't see them doing without the Vue for a year...I think that's Saturn's most popular CURRENT line now based on how many I see at the dealers compared with the Ion and Relay. I think I've seen 3 Relays on the road, (and I think I'm being generous)....Anyway, what is going in the Ion portion of the plant after it's ripped out? again, just curious. Sorry your going to get laid off....I did my part to help and bought one... Scott > That we will....Oh, BTW...I work for GM at the Spring Hill Manufacturing > Center on the VUE line. So my information is basically 99% correct. I get [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > > get > > > the next gen. ION and VUE will be steel body plants...no polymer... > Does that mean that the last year for the poly side Vue's will be the '08 > model? Or will it be a seamless transfer? Just curious on how those things [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Scott The '07 will be the last of the polymer panels. As Spring Hill production will stop around change over in 2007. I believe the transfer will be a seamless one. As you are correct, the VUE is the best selling product Saturn has currently and unless something else is selling well by then they will need the VUE to continue somewhere (even being steel body built then). The entire plant will be ripped out and a new manufacturing line put in. With the ION side stopping before the VUE side, it will mean a shorter layoff period for those of us on the VUE side. Since about half of the work will be done before we shut down. All we know is that we are getting a new product...but as with GM they don't say anything until the last minute. So it will be a few more months until we find out what product we get. Jim > That we will....Oh, BTW...I work for GM at the Spring Hill Manufacturing > Center on the VUE line. So my information is basically 99% correct. I get [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the past couple of years, as the decision was made then to drop polymer > panels from the GM lineup. Too bad. The VUE was on my short list when I change my '95 car in the next few years. Those plastic body panels were the big plus for the VUE. In steel it will be just another cross over vehicle. > > Polymer panels will surely be phased out of future Saturn models. It > > was a dumb gimmick to start with. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > increases the cost of the reinforcements underneath the panels. I'm sure > that they will be history very soon. It was no gimmick, it just wasn't a popular selling point. Our Saturn SL2 looked better after 7 years than did our newer Subaru wagon and Honda van after just a few. That included one side of panels replaced and repainted after being sideswiped, saving a considerable amount of money in repairs as well. I wouldn't buy a model because of plastic panels, but I'd pay a little more for them if available and if all else was equal among the models I was shopping. It's too bad plastic panels didn't gather more interest. With economies of scale and more consumer acceptance, we'd have seen improved designs and reduced cost. > > Polymer panels will surely be phased out of future Saturn models. It > > was a dumb gimmick to start with. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > increases the cost of the reinforcements underneath the panels. I'm sure > that they will be history very soon. They're also starting to pile up in junk yards with the realization that they'll be there forever. Maybe 15 years ago Saturn thought someone would figure out a way to recycle them (maybe in to bumpers) but it didn't happen. ron > They're also starting to pile up in junk yards with the realization that > they'll be there forever. Maybe 15 years ago Saturn thought someone would > figure out a way to recycle them (maybe in to bumpers) but it didn't happen. I've heard some junk heaps won't accept Saturns anymore, period. Hey, '94 was the peak year on the S series - there's a zillion of them basically about to hit the yards anyway. |
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