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Car Forum / Antique and Collectibles / Studebaker / April 2005

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Now I remember why I hate Avantis (long)

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Paul Johnson - 07 Apr 2005 03:21 GMT
Today I decided to stop procrastinating and do the last thing to the '64
Avanti before my buyer picks it up.  That was- adjust the valves- HOT!    I
had forgotten what a nasty job it is.  On a R-2, even if you warm it up
properly, it's almost cool before you get all the stuff off to get at the
job.  First, take off the air cleaner (not as easy on a R-2 as
non-supercharged engines).  Then take off the supercharger hoses and the
bonnet.  Take off the supercharger belts so it isn't running with no air
cleaner and no load.  Remove the throttle kicker (automatic tranny models)
so you don't get a sudden thrill while you are trying to run the engine at
the lowest possible idle.  Take the heater hose bracket loose to move the
hoses from directly over the right hand valve cover.  Take off the spark
plug shielding on that side, then the distributor cover and the shielding on
the right hand spark plug wire loom.  Take off the virtually unreachable two
nuts that hold the right hand loom in place (must be loose to gain enough
room to get the valve cover off.  It would help to take off the loom
entirely, but to do that you have to unfasten the oil gauge line which I'm
reluctant to do.  Take off the remaining valve cover nut (chrome acorn-type-
can you say slippery?).  The first nut came off in removing the air cleaner.
Try to pull off the valve cover.  Try again and swear some.  With enough
gyration and swearing it did eventually come off.  Then I installed a
cut-off valve cover that keeps much of the oil from running down the engine.
I started the engine and began adjusting, but the rear rocker screw is
almost impossible to get to and the cutoff valve cover wasn't cut quite
enough to let me get a wrench on the adjusting screw it.  So, I took the
cut-off cover off and applied my trusty Dremel-type tool (mine is a Mac) to
rout a bigger opening.  In less than two seconds the router jumped out of
the hole and hit the underside of my wrist- hurt like hell and I thought I
had done some major damage.  However, it was just a superficial injury.
First thing I did, though, was went and got my leather gloves that are long
enough to cover the injured area.  I finished the hole enlargement and put
the cover back on and somehow got all the valves adjusted.  They all had
been pretty loose.  I put that valve cover back on and went to the other
side.  Until I got the body bumped over (as posted last week), I couldn't
get the left valve cover off without taking off the brake booster.  This
time, however, with the requisite twisting, rotating and cussing, it came
off.  Of course I forgot to take off the accelerator return spring (the one
that runs from the throttle bellcrank to a retainer on the rear valve cover
bolt.  So, one bump and it disappeared into that great black void behind the
engine.  It didn't make it to the ground and I couldn't see it anywhere.  My
wonderful magnetic pick-up tool didn't find it either,  So, tomorrow I guess
I'll hit the local hardware store and see if they have anything close.  I
put the cut-off cover on and started the adjusting process.  I had left the
spark plug shielding on, but found that it prevented me from being able to
push the feeler gauge straight in so off it came.  I also found that the
feeler gauge is long enough to make good contact with a hot terminal on the
voltage regulator- can you say BIG spark, smoke to follow?  On this side I
could reach all the adjusting screws but the very back one which required
significant contortion (and swearing).  Thinking these would be loose like
the other side, I did about a 10-12 degree tightening turn on each one
before I ran it with the feeler gauge.  Surprise, it would barely start and
run and the vacuum gauge was fluttering.  So, with haste making waste I
found that the left bank was not only not loose, but apparently been too
tight.  So, after making maybe 25 degrees in loosening adjustments, I was
finally able to slide the feeler freely between the rocker and the head of
the valve on each valve.  Part of the reason I wanted to adjust the valves
was because I could hear sort of a popping sound at the tail pipe at idle
which can indicate a too tight valve.  When I was through, that sound had
disappeared so I guess I got it right (crossed fingers).  Now to put it all
back together.  Only major problem was the two nuts holding the right wiring
loom.  I solved that by putting some plumbers putty in the 7/16 socket.  I
then pressed the nuts into the putty in the socket and hooked up my longest
combination of 1/4" extensions.  Unbelievable- it worked.  All this effort
was complicated by the fact that I kept having to put on my glasses to see
what I was doing.  They sure were oily by the time I was done.
My usual luck followed me in to the shop where I went to drop a surplus
washer back in my "washer bucket".  From a distance of about 12 inches I
missed the bucket.  When I reached down to move the bucket, it tipped over
and I spent the next five minutes gathering up about ten pounds of washers.
Why did I do it hot?  Because I can't see the markings on the flywheel with
all the stuff in the way and I'm not good with the other techniques.  I can
certainly recommend the cut-off valve cover idea.  When the engine was
running at about 450 rpm there was a river of oil running along the lower
edge of the cut-off to the rear drain holes.  Most of that oil would have
been running down the side of the engine and on the exhaust pipes (among
many other things).  Even so, there is still a LOT of oil spattered all
over.  I found that the front rocker arm on the driver's side could spit oil
about three feet straight up or slightly to the side depending on where your
face was.
Oh well, next week the car is gone.
Paul Johnson
GTtim - 07 Apr 2005 03:50 GMT
Thanks for all the details, Paul.  I like the trick with the plumbers
putty.  That one is worth remembering.  I sure hope your buyer
appreciates the effort you've gone to.
Tim K.
John Poulos - 07 Apr 2005 04:11 GMT
Never had to do that either, but I have educated fingers.<g>

> Thanks for all the details, Paul.  I like the trick with the plumbers
> putty.  That one is worth remembering.  I sure hope your buyer
> appreciates the effort you've gone to.
> Tim K.

Signature

JP/Maryland
Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com
My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/
64 Challenger (Green Wrapper)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
55 Speedster
50 2R 10 truck

John Poulos - 07 Apr 2005 04:10 GMT
   I feel your pain, but once you've done a few dozen, it gets a lot
easier. <g> BTW, now you know why I set them cold. I don't use the
pointer, just get them close, than  bump it around to the biggest gap
and touch them up, than do a quick third check spinning the engine. The
valve covers come off real easy by just using a pry point with
screwdriver between the cover and the waterpump manifold. You take a lot
more stuff off than I do by trying to do them hot.

> Today I decided to stop procrastinating and do the last thing to the '64
> Avanti before my buyer picks it up.  That was- adjust the valves- HOT!    I
[quoted text clipped - 76 lines]
> Oh well, next week the car is gone.
> Paul Johnson

Signature

JP/Maryland
Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com
My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/
64 Challenger (Green Wrapper)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
55 Speedster
50 2R 10 truck

Alex M - 07 Apr 2005 05:10 GMT
I'm with John on this one. I will never again do valves on a running
engine and haven't for about 30 years. Do them cold and add .002 to the
clearance.
You only need to position the engine twice.
When the pointer is at zero and #1 is  on the  compression stroke,
adjust the following valves
Exhaust 1-3-4-8
Intake    1-2-5-7
With the pointer at zero and #6 on compression
adjust
Exhaust 2-5-6-7
Intake   3-4-6-8

Alex M

> Today I decided to stop procrastinating and do the last thing to the
> '64 Avanti before my buyer picks it up.  That was- adjust the valves-
[quoted text clipped - 83 lines]
> Oh well, next week the car is gone.
> Paul Johnson
studebaker kid - 07 Apr 2005 12:43 GMT
Always do them  cold myself too and use go/no feeler gages to speed it
up maybe a few of you  old timers know what they are.
Paul Johnson - 07 Apr 2005 13:37 GMT
> Always do them  cold myself too and use go/no feeler gages to speed it
> up maybe a few of you  old timers know what they are.

Hey.  I'm an old-timer and I never heard of a go/no feeler gage.  How does
it work?
Paul Johnson
Ron - 11 Apr 2005 22:14 GMT
Did you get an answer?
each leaf has two thicknesses, representing the acceptable range or
variance for a specific dimension. You adjust the valves (in this
case) to where the thinner part will GO and the thicker one is a
NO-GO, and you're done.

>> Always do them  cold myself too and use go/no feeler gages to speed it
>> up maybe a few of you  old timers know what they are.
>>
>Hey.  I'm an old-timer and I never heard of a go/no feeler gage.  How does
>it work?
>Paul Johnson

Ron/Champ 6

1963 8E5 Champ (Champ 6)
1962 Lark Daytona Convertible (Boomerang)
1995 VW Passat (Vanilla..yuk)
1994 Volvo 850 (Tilley)
1973 Volvo 1800 ES (An Clar)
Paul Johnson - 12 Apr 2005 00:24 GMT
> Did you get an answer?
> each leaf has two thicknesses, representing the acceptable range or
> variance for a specific dimension. You adjust the valves (in this
> case) to where the thinner part will GO and the thicker one is a
> NO-GO, and you're done.

Not until now.  Thanks.
Paul Johnson
Gordon Richmond - 07 Apr 2005 17:48 GMT
I bought the setup from Ted harbit to adjust the valves cold with a
dial indicator.

I used it on a GT Hawk, and it can get a little tight to work on some
of the valves, but the end result was a nice quiet engine.

Gord Richmond
 
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