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Car Forum / Antique and Collectibles / Studebaker / April 2005Green wrapper update
I had always planned a budget build for what will be a R2 4peed 2 door Challenger, but I'm really going to cut some money out of this one. I was going to spend $800 or so to have it media blasted, than maybe a MAACO paint job. I decided to try D-A sanding the paint and it goes pretty fast, so that's what I'll do. I also decided to paint it myself and was going to use some cheap red paint I had here, but N8 talked me out of it. I ordered 2 gallon of black lacquer and will try my hand at painting again. BTW, I love lacquer, it's goof proof.  SignatureJP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 Challenger (Green Wrapper) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 55 Speedster 50 2R 10 truck How the hell is lacquer goof proof? Have you been to any car shows in the past few years. Billy OK, it's possible to screw it up, but if you do, wait a few minutes, sand and reshoot. I've done a few Avanti's and once you've wet sanded and buffed the paint, it'll shine like no other. > How the hell is lacquer goof proof? Have you been to any car shows in > the past few years. > > Billy SignatureJP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 Challenger (Green Wrapper) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 55 Speedster 50 2R 10 truck But it's longevity is limited and the finish is very prone to cracking etc. JT Who would not in a million years ever use lacquer again... > OK, it's possible to screw it up, but if you do, wait a few minutes, > sand and reshoot. I've done a few Avanti's and once you've wet sanded [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > 55 Speedster > 50 2R 10 truck Not if maintained properly. The Survivor Avanti's paint was 40 years old and looked great and I've buffed out lacquer on cars much older. > But it's longevity is limited and the finish is very prone to cracking etc. > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >>55 Speedster >>50 2R 10 truck SignatureJP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 Challenger (Green Wrapper) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 55 Speedster 50 2R 10 truck Yes, but Studebaker painted that car! Seriously good luck with it, and I among others will be interested in hearing how it turns out. Bet it turns out better than my truck did with the "fleet" paint... but that was an operator problem, not the fault of the paint. Jeff DeWitt > Not if maintained properly. The Survivor Avanti's paint was 40 years old > and looked great and I've buffed out lacquer on cars much older. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >>>> >>>> Billy > Not if maintained properly. The Survivor Avanti's paint was 40 years old > and looked great and I've buffed out lacquer on cars much older. > >> But it's longevity is limited and the finish is very prone to cracking >> etc. Are we talking acrylic lacquer or nitrocellulose? Avantis were acrylic. Paul Johnson Modern acrylic is what I'm using. ($79 a gallon on Ebay) >>Not if maintained properly. The Survivor Avanti's paint was 40 years old >>and looked great and I've buffed out lacquer on cars much older. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Are we talking acrylic lacquer or nitrocellulose? Avantis were acrylic. > Paul Johnson SignatureJP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 Challenger (Green Wrapper) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 55 Speedster 50 2R 10 truck Today's lacquer is a far cry from what was sold in the 60's. Don't even attempt to compare that $79.00 stuff with what Studebaker applied at the factory. The Feds have required manufacturers to remove all the 'good stuff' from what is sold today. Lacquer of old would hold up very well for many years. Hell, I saw a survivor 57 Chevy convert that was supposed to be 90% original paint. A little thin here and there but it looked terrific. Today's lacquer will go to hell in 5 to 7 years. If you want to go cheap (inexpensive), the way to go is Dupont Centari with a hardner. I holds up well, and you can sand and buff it. Most professionals use Urethanes, even though they are pricey. The base coat in a bc/cc system even sprays like lacquer. > Modern acrylic is what I'm using. ($79 a gallon on Ebay) > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Are we talking acrylic lacquer or nitrocellulose? Avantis were acrylic. > > Paul Johnson You made me Google for more information.. The Fed's have only outlawed the 'good stuff' in California that I know of. It's a HAP (Hazardous Air Pollutants) item, but you can still buy and use it in small quantities. (250 gallons/month in most states) The Dupont rep says they have not changed the lacquer paint in over 40 years. The nasty stuff is still the thinner, again unchanged, but neither is as nasty as IMRON for example. > Today's lacquer is a far cry from what was sold in the 60's. Don't even > attempt to compare that $79.00 stuff with what Studebaker applied at the [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >>>Are we talking acrylic lacquer or nitrocellulose? Avantis were acrylic. >>>Paul Johnson SignatureJP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 Challenger (Green Wrapper) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 55 Speedster 50 2R 10 truck The rep is either young and inexperienced or incredibly uninformed. 25 years ago it took two hands to pick up a gallon of lacquer. Today you can pick rhat gallon up with one. One ingredient that is missing is the lead. The Feds found toom many infants were chewing on extrior car parts. A friend of mine painted an El Morroco 4 times with modern lacquer. He was at his wits end because the paint was garbage. He got up the necessary nerve to approach the car owner with the bad news. When he did, the owner informed him that he had 4 gallons of lacquer that was at least 35 years old. The painter drove down, picked up the paint, returned and painted the El Morroco. It turned out great and everyone was happy. The painter is one of the best known Chevy restorers in the East. > You made me Google for more information.. > The Fed's have only outlawed the 'good stuff' in California that I know [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > >>>Are we talking acrylic lacquer or nitrocellulose? Avantis were acrylic. > >>>Paul Johnson I don't why we keep going round and round about this, but about 50% of auto paints still contain lead. the newest stuff is pretty much lead free, but even Centari still contains lead. basic point is, I like lacquer. I like using it, I like how it looks and that's the name of that tune. <g> > The rep is either young and inexperienced or incredibly uninformed. 25 > years ago it took two hands to pick up a gallon of lacquer. Today you can [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] > >>>>>Paul Johnson SignatureJP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 Challenger (Green Wrapper) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 55 Speedster 50 2R 10 truck And you call yourself an environmentalist! Think of the mosquitoes you'll kill with your lacquer fumes pouring out into your neighborhood! The overspray will rain down on the anti freeze already pooling in your driveway, just waiting for the local kitties to come and lap it up! And then there's the rubbing out... All that compound washing down to foul the dirt for the worms. Hey, you started it <lol>....Spray away with no spray booth, or white suit. What care you...<gg> Jeff (oh, and paint companies are evil capitalists, too boot! <g>) Rice "John Poulos" wrote... > I don't why we keep going round and round about this, but about 50% of > auto paints still contain lead. the newest stuff is pretty much lead free, [quoted text clipped - 77 lines] >> >>>>>>Paul Johnson Centari is a decent paint but I like the ol'Delux better myself. Problem is they don't stock Delux any more. I know for a fact that Delux had lead in it but to the best of my knowledge Centari does not. Nick To the best of my knowledge, lead is/was used only as an ingredient in some paint PIGMENTS. The vehicle is is either a natural or synthetic resin, and is basically colorless. The lead-based pigments were more colorfast than their replacements? Yesterday, I sprayed a batch of Jeep wheels with DP40 epoxy primer, and then OD enamel. Just for the heck of it, I donned an old US Army gas mask I bought for $10.00 at a flea market. It worked like a hot damn! With the mask on, I could not smell so much as a whiff of solvent, or any of the other nasty stuff in the paint. (and DP40 has some nasty stuff in it). I don't know what they used for filters in that mask, but they seem to be very effective at removing VOCs from the air. Gord Richmond You said, "I like using it, I like how it looks and that's the name of > that tune. <g>" I can certainly respect that and would not attempt tp change that opinion. > I don't why we keep going round and round about this, but about 50% > of auto paints still contain lead. the newest stuff is pretty much lead [quoted text clipped - 73 lines] > > > >>>>>Paul Johnson JT writes: <<But it's longevity is limited and the finish is very prone to cracking etc. . . Who would not in a million years ever use lacquer again... >> JP responds: <<Not if maintained properly.>> I've not researched this topic very much, but am interested to learn how to maintain a paint job to last a long time. I've kept my cars clean and waxed with a carnuba wax at least once a year. Some of my cars are garaged and some are not. The ones that are not get waxed more often. I do not use a silicone based coating. Can you recommend doing anything else to prolong paint life? Thanks, Rich Richard Morris Renton, WA 64 Avanti R-1 #5367 90 Avanti 4-door #78 I wouldn't use acrylic lacquer at all! it will not hold up, and all the prep work (if done right) will be wasted, as once the lacquer start "crazing and checking" it will HAVE to be stripped, which, also means all your body work will need to be redone too. But, at $79 bucks a gallon, I guess you'll save a few bucks now, and spend it later when it needs to be redone. The Dupont Centauri is a GREAT paint, use the faster drying reducer and the hardner, you can color sand and polish it, and it will spray like lacquer, of course, I'm partial to it, as that's what I learned to spray 30+ years ago. A good example, I painted my brothers 34 Chevy 5 window master coupe back in the late 70's, by the mid 80's it needed to be re-painted again, I painted my Avanti in 1981, and it still looked pretty good up until about 5 years ago, it's really showing it's age now! But, it's Centauri, and all I really need to do is block it back down and re spray it, this time will be Dupont Ureathane 2 stage. But first I gotta get the 62 ragtop painted! <G> Jim Turner > JT writes: > <<But it's longevity is limited and the finish is very prone to [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > 64 Avanti R-1 #5367 > 90 Avanti 4-door #78 If that's what you used on Tucker's (now mine) '54, I'll testify to it's durability. 25 years later it's still a good 10' paint job. > I wouldn't use acrylic lacquer at all! it will not hold up, and all the prep > work (if done right) will be wasted, as once the lacquer start "crazing and [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] >>64 Avanti R-1 #5367 >>90 Avanti 4-door #78 SignatureRemove all the x's to email. "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -- WOW--What a Ride!!!" ----- Unknown 1953 Starlight Coupe 1954 Starlight Coupe R1/4-speed 1958 Silver Hawk 1960 Frua Italia Larks (2 - they're here!) 1962 Lark VI 1963 Avanti R2 R4324 1963 Lark Cruiser (R2 3/4 clone in progress) 1963 GT Hawk 1963 Daytona Wagonaire 1964 Cruiser (Survivor) 1956 2E7 2000 Boxster S 2000 Ducati 748 2002 Jeep Overland 2004 Ducati Monster 1000 http://homepage.mac.com/pdrnec/PhotoAlbum81.html Yep, good ole' Centauri <G> Jim > If that's what you used on Tucker's (now mine) '54, I'll testify to it's > durability. 25 years later it's still a good 10' paint job. [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > 2004 Ducati Monster 1000 > http://homepage.mac.com/pdrnec/PhotoAlbum81.html I guess I'm a stubborn old timer, but I have not had any problems with lacquer holding up. > I wouldn't use acrylic lacquer at all! it will not hold up, and all the prep > work (if done right) will be wasted, as once the lacquer start "crazing and [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] >>64 Avanti R-1 #5367 >>90 Avanti 4-door #78 SignatureJP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 Challenger (Green Wrapper) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 55 Speedster 50 2R 10 truck But John - you usually keep them an average of about 27 days..... <G> > I guess I'm a stubborn old timer, but I have not had any problems > with lacquer holding up. [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] >>> 64 Avanti R-1 #5367 >>> 90 Avanti 4-door #78 SignatureRemove all the x's to email. "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -- WOW--What a Ride!!!" ----- Unknown 1953 Starlight Coupe 1954 Starlight Coupe R1/4-speed 1958 Silver Hawk 1960 Frua Italia Larks (2 - they're here!) 1962 Lark VI 1963 Avanti R2 R4324 1963 Lark Cruiser (R2 3/4 clone in progress) 1963 GT Hawk 1963 Daytona Wagonaire 1964 Cruiser (Survivor) 1956 2E7 2000 Boxster S 2000 Ducati 748 2002 Jeep Overland 2004 Ducati Monster 1000 http://homepage.mac.com/pdrnec/PhotoAlbum81.html Good point, but I've owned a few with 20-40 year old paint. BTW, it'll cost me more to do the car in lacquer than I'd have spent on acrylic enamel, it's all N8's fault.<g> I had two brand new gallons of red sitting on the shelf. > But John - you usually keep them an average of about 27 days..... <G> > [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] >>>> 64 Avanti R-1 #5367 >>>> 90 Avanti 4-door #78 SignatureJP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 Challenger (Green Wrapper) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 55 Speedster 50 2R 10 truck On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 21:27:53 -0400, you wrote: > I guess I'm a stubborn old timer, but I have not had any problems >with lacquer holding up. I was told, waxing.. and a garage.. and its good.. would LOVE to do a candy, but cant afford the paint.. --Shiva-- I painted my 57 Chevy sport coupe in 1990 using all Sikkens products from the bare metal up. Used single stage. If you saw it today, you would swear it was done recently. Pricey stuff, but what a product. Regarding lacquer, Feds don't like the high VOCs either. Urethanes are preferred because they a carcenogenic and only kill the painter! Ahhhh, the wisdom of our legislators. > I wouldn't use acrylic lacquer at all! it will not hold up, and all the prep > work (if done right) will be wasted, as once the lacquer start "crazing and [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > 64 Avanti R-1 #5367 > > 90 Avanti 4-door #78 Actually, it's the "isocyanides" in the paint, a form of cyanide! Good booth, good mask, preferably a fresh air system and you will be OK BTW Sikkens is a good paint, high $$$ but a good system Jim > I painted my 57 Chevy sport coupe in 1990 using all Sikkens products from > the bare metal up. Used single stage. If you saw it today, you would swear [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > > 64 Avanti R-1 #5367 > > > 90 Avanti 4-door #78 That is good to hear since that is what I have on my Packard Hawk. Mike W. > Actually, it's the "isocyanides" in the paint, a form of cyanide! > Good booth, good mask, preferably a fresh air system and you will be OK [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] >> > > 64 Avanti R-1 #5367 >> > > 90 Avanti 4-door #78 Sounds like fun.27 hand rubbed coats of laquer should give you that deep glossy look<G> Bob40 I bought two gallons of paint, that's at least 4-6 coats with a HVLP gun. > Sounds like fun.27 hand rubbed coats of laquer should give you that deep > glossy look<G> > > Bob40 SignatureJP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 Challenger (Green Wrapper) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 55 Speedster 50 2R 10 truck |
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