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Car Forum / Antique and Collectibles / Studebaker / June 2005Supercharged embelms
Well, the seller is going round and round with me and Bondo so far on his emblems. He's convinced they were a undocumented, rare Studebaker item. I don't think he's being dishonest, just believed someones story. You can read the questions here: (scroll down) http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4554399874  SignatureJP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 55 Speedster 50 2R 10 truck > Well, the seller is going round and round with me and Bondo so far on > his emblems. He's convinced they were a undocumented, rare Studebaker > item. I don't think he's being dishonest, just believed someones story. > You can read the questions here: (scroll down) > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4554399874 Items were pulled according to my puter Bill - I still show the auction live on Sat morning....and the bidding is "ferocious" at $5.50 (so far) for the pair! ROFLMAO! The seller's reply to Billy is good.... Q: The Supercharged nameplates are not Studebaker, turn them around so you can see the back, tell me what it says on the back side.Trust me, these are not Studebaker. I am quite sure you believe your sources are correct, but they might be pulling your leg or another part, but that these were for Studebaker is a TALL TALE . Jun-03-05 A: You're absolutely right! These are not "Studebaker". They're not Paxton either. The Granatelli's (owners of Paxton/Studebaker)had these emblems made specifically for use on Paxton equipped Studebakers. What do you expect to be on the backside of the emblem? There may be more to the story than we know. But my sources don't kid around much; They were there and they should know. Also, I sent a pair of these to Maine for a Studebaker as a replacement for broken ones & they were a perfect match. I believe the car had been in the family since new. I know they were not on all supercharged Studebakers. But they were on some & maybe that's why they're so rare. Thanks for your input, bondobilly! Q: The part you have listed was never used on a Studebaker. It appears to be the aftermarket hot rod script being sold today. The 57-58 supercharged cars had no script, the 63's had a "Avanti Supercharged" flat metal plate, 64's had a oval plastic "Avanti Supercharged" emblem. Jun-03-05 A: I am not a Studebaker expert. My information came from JR Granatelli,former Pres. of Paxton Products, whose father (Joe) & uncle (Andy)owned the Co. during that time. I acquired these from Paxton when the Co. was sold (saved from the trash bin). I furnished 2 of them to renowned automotive artist John Gables as replacement for broken ones on his Studebaker. These were identical to his. I don't know how to contact John now. But I know he lives in Maine & would gladly verify their authenticity. These are definitely not sold today as generic aftermarket emblems. Thanks for your interest! > > Well, the seller is going round and round with me and Bondo so far on > > his emblems. He's convinced they were a undocumented, rare Studebaker [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > > Items were pulled according to my puter > Bill - > > I still show the auction live on Sat morning....and the bidding is > "ferocious" at $5.50 (so far) for the pair! ROFLMAO! > > The seller's reply to Billy is good.... I think a number of Studebaker folks would know what I was eluding to when I said, read to me what on the back side. Every trim pice like that thru all the years was made for Studebaker by one company and they cast their name and a Studebaker numerical or alpha numerical number on the back. Had he turned in around and read me the name, I would then agree that it was a Stude part. If you read both posts really carefully you will see where the story changes slightly,, but it changes. If somebody does buy thm and they look good on thier baker, cool. Just no fairy tales. Maybe the guy in Maine bought those emblems thru the mag for $5 including shipping and thatthey were on his Studebaker, then, it meets two statements, he sent it to maine for a Studebaker and it matched Check out the chrome script in this Paxton ad from September 1958 Hot Rod: http://home.comcast.net/~jdwain/paxton.ad.jpg Perfect, I'll send him a picture. > Check out the chrome script in this Paxton ad from September 1958 Hot Rod: > > http://home.comcast.net/~jdwain/paxton.ad.jpg SignatureJP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 55 Speedster 50 2R 10 truck With a small apology, I hope. Most of his info was pretty good, and he got slammed here. "John Poulos" wrote... > Perfect, I'll send him a picture. >> Check out the chrome script in this Paxton ad from September 1958 Hot >> Rod: >> http://home.comcast.net/~jdwain/paxton.ad.jpg Jeff Tell me what to apologies for and I will. Bill and I were trying to point out it was not a Studebaker part and it is not. The fact that we found it was made by Paxton well before Studebaker bought Paxton, made the Studebaker connection even more unlikly. My second e-mail to him should have made that clear: "I'll grant that they could have been offered by Paxton as a as part of their kits for all cars, and you could certainly apply them to a Studebaker. I never thought you were being dishonest, just pointing out they were not a Studebaker item. " > With a small apology, I hope. > Most of his info was pretty good, and he got slammed here. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >>>Rod: >>>http://home.comcast.net/~jdwain/paxton.ad.jpg SignatureJP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 55 Speedster 50 2R 10 truck Well, Jumping on the newsgroup and saying it is BS (your words, your header) immediately without knowing for sure if it may be possible is a start. Studebaker, as a struggling, bureaucratic, and somewhat dysfunctional corporation did a lot of things outside the norm. I rule nothing out in my discovery process for this hobby. Being quick to condemn is something that this newsgroup sees all to much of. You do what you want. I can't 'make' you do anything... write, or wrong (pun intended). But I do know the difference. This turns out to be a possibility. Abstract maybe, but still possible. Jeff (just one guys opinion, tossed out on the newsgroup) Rice "John Poulos" wrote... > Jeff > Tell me what to apologies for and I will. Bill and I were trying to point [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >>>>Rod: >>>>http://home.comcast.net/~jdwain/paxton.ad.jpg It was BS, might have been BS passed on to the seller, but BS never the less. Granted, it is possible that Studebaker installed the script on a car or two and that was lost in the fog of history, but his story was quite different: "You are bidding on one pair of rare, matched name plates that were used on supercharged versions of Studebakers built during the McCulloch/Paxton option era." OK, someone could have used them on a Studebaker. . "These chrome plated emblems were installed by Studebaker on the front fenders of most of the supercharged Studebakers of that time." "most" is dead wrong, a few installed by Studebaker, possible, just never heard of any. "After Studebaker dropped the factory supercharged option, Paxton continued to package the emblems with superchargers that were sent directly to Studebaker Dealers as a "Dealer Installed" option. " Very suspect bit of history since the emblems were not even in the later Paxton price list and why would a dealer order from Paxton when they could order from the factory. "However, many dealers neglected to install the emblems as directed by Paxton." No data on that line. I'll try to be more polite in the future, perhaps "Possible errors in a description." <g> The seller is still convinced he's selling a correct Studebaker item, I'm convinced he is not. > Well, > Jumping on the newsgroup and saying it is BS (your words, your header) [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] >>>>>Rod: >>>>>http://home.comcast.net/~jdwain/paxton.ad.jpg SignatureJP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 55 Speedster 50 2R 10 truck > It was BS, might have been BS passed on to the seller, but BS never > the less. Granted, it is possible that Studebaker installed the script [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > in a description." <g> The seller is still convinced he's selling a > correct Studebaker item, I'm convinced he is not. I had to start a new account after reading this thread from JP. What an a.shole. Dean Heck > > Well, > > Jumping on the newsgroup and saying it is BS (your words, your header) [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > 55 Speedster > 50 2R 10 truck This is not atypical of Ebay sellers. Some of the "history", "specifications", and "appication" is stretched a bit to suit the sellers needs. They figure the guy who knows the truth won't buy anyway, and if they can stick an uninformed sucker, they will be "bucks" ahead. When I was really into '57 Chevys, I always got a kick out of "all matching numbers!". I still love the liberal use of the word "restored". > It was BS, might have been BS passed on to the seller, but BS never > the less. Granted, it is possible that Studebaker installed the script [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] > >>>>>Rod: > >>>>>http://home.comcast.net/~jdwain/paxton.ad.jpg > Jeff > Tell me what to apologies for and I will. Bill and I were trying to > point out it was not a Studebaker part and it is not. The fact that we > found it was made by Paxton well before Studebaker bought Paxton, made I think the key to this is that he stated with authority that dealers installed them on Studebaker cars and that Studebaker had used these emblems on cars before they sold Paxton. Our problem is with the fact he states that Studebaker did install these at the plant. Had he said that these emblems would go niceley with a Studebaker that has a Paxton on it, here is your chance,, then nobody could pick quibble. Nice summation Bill. > Had he said that these emblems would go niceley with a Studebaker that > has a Paxton on it, here is your chance,, then nobody could pick quibble. SignatureJP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 55 Speedster 50 2R 10 truck Well - it would seem from the ad that Dwain found, at least part of the guys story is correct. They are Paxton items intended for Studebakers, not having Studebaker part numbers. In other words - aftermarket stuff. Am I correct? Well, half way. They were Paxton emblems intended for any supercharged brand, but were never offered by Studebaker or just for a Studebaker. Sort of like me advertising a Firestine tire as a Studebaker tire because it would work on a Studebaker.<g>. I suggested they were a after market item too, but they are actually probably a rare Paxton period part. > Well - it would seem from the ad that Dwain found, at least part of the > guys story is correct. They are Paxton items intended for Studebakers, > not having Studebaker part numbers. In other words - aftermarket stuff. > Am I correct? SignatureJP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 55 Speedster 50 2R 10 truck John, I can't put my hands on the picture, but there was one like you've described at the Ga. Meet in April. We judges dinged the guy 2 points because we didn't think it was accurate. Now I'm not so sure... Dave Miller Well, they could have been dealer installed. Say a Studebaker dealer ordered a kit and and the emblems from Paxton and installed both. That would not make it anymore a stock Studebaker part than a dealer installed sun roof. The point we were trying to make with the seller is that they were not a factory installed part, thus the correctness of the point deduction you mention. Someone with a supercharged Studebaker might wonder if his car was missing the script. I sorry I even bothered to bring it up at this point. <g> > John, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Dave Miller SignatureJP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 55 Speedster 50 2R 10 truck No, John. You are absolutely right in every respect. It is through little stories such as this that mythical facts are born. Yep! Them Studebakers with that Ford 289 in them sure were hot! The item is a Paxton product. I've got several of the mid 50's Hot Rod magizines that have the ad in them. It was made before Studebaker bought Paxton as an add on emblem for anyone buying the kit. Paxton continued selling these kits to whom ever wanted them, even after Studebaker bought them. I've seen them on several of the custom supercharged cars of the era that have shown up at events here in Texas. I've never seen one on a factory supercharged Studebaker 57-8, or 63-4, though, and would have to wonder why anyone would want to put one on in place of the factory emblems (63-4). If stories such as this aren't questioned and judged by the current information available, then people will fall all over the myth and we'll see Studebakers start springing up with the things all over the place. A more mythical stories to boot. What a mess we'll have then! Think the problem with judging GT Hawks is a major problem, just think what a nightmare it would become to see 60 Larks show up with superchargers on them and these emblems hanging from the fenders? Perhaps, a little research is inorder? Like so many other things concerning Studebaker, it is possible that a few were dealer installed. It is entirely possible that dealers in California would have done so to sell a hot ticket car to a customer. Perhaps, a note to Fred, Richard, George, or Bob would set in motion a new future article in the TW about some more of Studebaker's fascinating oddities? Of course, I'm like you, when BS is CS you still can't make chicken salad out of it! Bo Well, that does it....My work here is done <lol>... Bo and JP see eye to eye! "Willard (Bo) Markham" wrote... > No, John. You are absolutely right in every respect. It is through > little stories such as this that mythical facts are born. Yep! Them [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Bo Just curious, are these the same emblems that Mr. Gasket (I think?) currently sells, or are the Paxton ones different? BTW Jeff, I just got off the phone with my dad. He's attempting to polish an old Edelbrock intake for this pickup himself. Did I ever tell you you're an all right kind of guy? <G> nate PS - completely unrelated to studebakers, got an offer letter for a job today. I'm about 95% sure I'm going to take it. About the only relation this has to Studebakers is the amount of $$$ I will have available to buy parts for them <G> > Well, that does it....My work here is done <lol>... > Bo and JP see eye to eye! [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] >> >>Bo Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel That is good news, and for the obvious reason.<g> > About the only relation this has to Studebakers is the amount of $$$ I will have > available to buy parts for them <G> SignatureJP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 55 Speedster 50 2R 10 truck Bo and I have agreed to move on, sh.t happens, but life's too short to hold a grudge very long. Even Bondo and I have gone round and round on occasion, but I count his as a good friend now. Hell, I was not that found of your on line persona until we'd shared a few beers in person. <g> > Well, that does it....My work here is done <lol>... > Bo and JP see eye to eye! SignatureJP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 55 Speedster 50 2R 10 truck Uh oh... I here Kumbaya in the background <lol>... I know what you mean though.... "John Poulos" wrote> Bo and I have agreed to move on, sh.t happens, but life's too short > to hold a grudge very long. Even Bondo and I have gone round and round on > occasion, but I count his as a good friend now. Hell, I was not that found > of your on line persona until we'd shared a few beers in person. <g> >> Well, that does it....My work here is done <lol>... >> Bo and JP see eye to eye! Bo, Thanks, that's what I intended, but I see Jeff's point too. I should not have used a hot button description for what might have been just a mistake passed on to the seller. We all nit pic what we see as misleading info, but I guess I could have used a more subtle title. If Bob Palma would have jumped in with some Studebaker info on installing Paxton badges on 57-58 Golden Hawk front fenders, I'd feel a little silly. <g> I recall the Golden Hawk that sold for 45K a few years back had a build sheet that showed the 62 GT Hawk stuff on the car as "Auto show" add on's, so a lot more unethical stuff goes on. Willard (Bo) Markham wrote: > No, John. You are absolutely right in every respect. It is through little > stories such as this that mythical facts are born. Yep! Them Studebakers > with that Ford 289 in them sure were hot! SignatureJP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 55 Speedster 50 2R 10 truck |
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