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Car Forum / Antique and Collectibles / Studebaker / June 2005

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mbstude - 29 Jun 2005 22:32 GMT
My name is Matthew Burnette, I am 15 years old, and I own two
Studebakers; a 63 Daytona HT, and a 52 Commander Starliner. Some of you
may know my Grandad, Neil Thornton, whose Studee collection consists of
about 50 Studes, restored and unrstored. I am new to the whole
Newsgroup thing, so any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
64daytonaht - 29 Jun 2005 22:34 GMT
Hi Matthew,

Welcome to the exciting world of Studedom.

What kind of help are you seeking?

Bo

> My name is Matthew Burnette, I am 15 years old, and I own two
> Studebakers; a 63 Daytona HT, and a 52 Commander Starliner. Some of you
> may know my Grandad, Neil Thornton, whose Studee collection consists of
> about 50 Studes, restored and unrstored. I am new to the whole
> Newsgroup thing, so any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
mbstude - 29 Jun 2005 22:39 GMT
Well actually, I am still trying to figure this stuff out, so really no
help is needed...yet. Thanks
Jeff Rice - 29 Jun 2005 22:41 GMT
Welcome to the newsgroup Matthew...
This is a great place to learn, share experiences, get tech info, and find
stuff...Stude stuff...
We only have a few guidelines here...
Just be nice, and ask lot's of questions.
Jeff

> My name is Matthew Burnette, I am 15 years old, and I own two
> Studebakers; a 63 Daytona HT, and a 52 Commander Starliner. Some of you
> may know my Grandad, Neil Thornton, whose Studee collection consists of
> about 50 Studes, restored and unrstored. I am new to the whole
> Newsgroup thing, so any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
mbstude - 29 Jun 2005 22:44 GMT
Okay, sounds easy enough. I was recommended here by George Klutkowski,
I think thats how to spell his name.
Jeff Rice - 29 Jun 2005 22:45 GMT
We just call him StudeGeorge.....

"mbstude" wrote...
> Okay, sounds easy enough. I was recommended here by George Klutkowski,
> I think thats how to spell his name.
mbstude - 29 Jun 2005 22:46 GMT
You can also E-mail me if needed at mbstude@yahoo.com I also need info
on a 52 Commander HT. (Production numbers...etc.)
mbstude - 29 Jun 2005 22:51 GMT
Yeah, StudeGeorge is a lot easier to spell. My 63 Daytona HT came from
the factory with a six cylinder-auto trans, is this a somewhat rare
combination in that kind of car? I would really like to hear from
anyone who has a similar car, or knows anyting about it.
Jeff Rice - 29 Jun 2005 22:53 GMT
Matthew,
Here is a site that has the info you need...

http://64.78.5.28/public/454.cfm

(Just do a Google search and enter '1952 Studebaker production numbers')
and here is what you get.... (pretty neat, huh?)

1952 Studebaker Production Statistics
     1952 Studebaker Champion - 12G - 101,390 combined
       Model   Weight
       Custom 4 Door Sedan 2,695
       Custom 2 Door Sedan 2,655
       Custom Coupe 5 passenger 2,660
       DeLuxe 4 Door Sedan 2,720
       DeLuxe 2 Door Sedan 2,685
       DeLuxe Coupe 5 passenger 2,675
       Regal 4 Door Sedan 2,725
       Regal 2 Door Sedan 2,690
       Regal Coupe 5 passenger 2,695
       Regal Starliner Hardtop Coupe 2,860
       Regal Convertible Coupe 2,870
     1952 Studebaker Commander - 3H - 84,349 combined
       Regal 4 Door Sedan 3,085
       Regal 2 Door Sedan 3,040
       Regal Coupe 5 passenger 3,030
       State 4 Door Sedan 3,075
       State 2 Door Sedan 3,055
       State Coupe 5 passenger 3,025
       State Starliner Hardtop Coupe 3,220
       State Convertible Coupe 3,230
       Land Cruiser 4 Door Sedan 3,155

Engine Specifications: 1952 Studebaker 169 Six
     GENERAL SPECIFICATIONS
     Model Designation: Champion 6: 12G
     Wheel base: 115
     Valve Location: In block
     Bore and Stroke: 3 x 4
     Piston displacement, Cubic Inches: 169.6
     Compression ratio: 7.00
     Maximum Brake Horsepower: 85 @ 4000 RPM
     Maximum Torque Lbs.Ft. @ RPM: 138 @ 2400 RPM
     Normal Oil Pressure Pounds: 40
     TUNE UP SPECIFICATIONS
     Spark Plug Make: Champion J7
     Spark Plug Gap, Inch: .025
     Firing Order: 153624
     Ignition Timing: IGN on Vib. Damp.
     Engine Idle Speed, RPM:  500
     Cylinder Head Torque Lbs.Ft.: 48
     Compression Pressure & Cranking Speed: 115 Min.
     Voltage & Polarity: 6 volts, positive ground
     PISTON AND RING SPECIFICATIONS
     Fitting Pistons with Scale:
     Shim Thickness to use: .002 (1 inch wide feeler);
     Pounds Pull on Scale:: 11 to 16
     Ring End Gap: (Fit rings in tapered bores for clearance shown in
tightest portion of ring travel.)
     Compression: .007
     Oil: .007
     Clearance in Groove: Compression: .002-.0025; Oil: .0015-.002
     Wristpin Diameter, Inch: .7491-.7495
     VALVE SPECIFICATIONS
     Operating Clearance:
          Intake: .016 Cold  Exhaust: .016 Cold
     Valve Seat Angle, degrees: 45
     Valve Timing: (BTDC = before top dead center; ATDC = after top dead
center)
              Intake opens: 15 degrees BTDC
              Exhaust Closes: 10 ATDC
     Valve Spring Pressure Pounds at Inches Length:
         Inner Spring: 54 @ 1-21/32
     Valve Stem Clearance: Intake: .0015-.0035; Exhaust: .0015-.0035
     Clearance for Timing Intake: .020
     ENGINE BEARING SPECIFICATIONS
     Connecting Rod Bearings:
         Journal Diameter, Inches: 1.81175-1.81275
         Bearing Clearance, Inch: .0005-.00215
         Rod End Play, Inch: .005-.009
         Rod Bolt Tension: Lbs.Ft.: 28-32
     Main Bearings:
         Journal Diameter, Inches: 2.4370-2.4375
          Bearing clearance: .0005-.0025
         Shaft End Play: .003-.006    (Thrust on front bearing)
         Main Bolt Tension: Lbs.Ft.: 88-93
     CAPACITY DATA
     Cooling System:
         Without heater: 10 quarts
         With heater: 11-1/2 quarts
     Fuel Tank: 18 gallons
     Engine Oil: 5 quarts
     Transmission: w/out overdrive: 1-1/2 pint; with overdrive: 2-3/4;
w/auto. trans: 9-1/2 quarts
     Rear Axle: 2-1/2 pints
     AUTO-LITE DISTRIBUTOR SPECIFICATIONS
     Distributor part number: 1AT-4010 (distributor rotates
counter-clockwise when viewed from top)
     Cam Angle, degrees: 39
     Breaker Point opening, Inch: .020 (plus or minus .002)
     Condenser Capacity: .20-.25 Mfds.
     Breaker Arm Spring Tension: 17-20 Oz.
     Centrifugal Advance: (degrees at RPM of distributor)
         Advance starts: 1 degrees @ 550
         Full Advance: 7 @ 1400
     Vacuum Advance Data (degrees @ In. of Mercury):
             Advance starts: 1 @ 4-7/8
             Full Advance: 9 @ 12
     AUTO_LITE GENERATOR SPECIFICATIONS
     Generator Number: GGW-4801A (generator rotates clockwise, 6 volts,
positive ground)
     Generator output: 45 amps @ 2125 RPM
     Brush Spring Tension: 35-53 oz.
     Field Current: 1.4 - 1.5 at 5 volts
     AUTO-LITE REGULATOR SPECIFICATIONS
     Regulator Number: VBE-6101A
     Cutout Relay:
         Voltage to close points: 6.5
         Reverse Current to Open Points: 4-6 amps
         Armature Air Gap: .031
     Voltage Regulator Setting: 7.3 volts
     Current Regulator Setting: 45 amps
     Current and voltage armature air gap, Inch: .048
     AUTO-LITE STARTING MOTOR SPECIFICATIONS
     Part number: MZ-4157 (starter rotates clockwise)
     Bush Spring Tension, Ounces: 42-53
     No Load Test: 68 amps, 5.0 volts @ 4000 RPM
     Torque Test: 280 Amps, 2.0 volts, Torque, Lbs.Ft.: 4.4
     WHEEL ALIGNMENT SPECIFICATIONS
     Caster, Degrees
         Limits: -1 to +2-1/2
         Desired: -1-3/4
     Camber, Degrees
         Limits: 0 to +1
         Desired: +1/2
     Toe-In, Inches: 1/16 to 1/8
     Toe-Out on Turns, Degrees: (If toe-out is incorrect, when other
adjustments are correct, look for bent steering arms.)
         Outer wheel: 20
         Inner Wheel: 22-1/2 to 23-1/2
     Kingpin Angle, or Steering Axis Degrees: (If king pin or spindle
support angle are incorrect, but camber is correct, look for bent suspension
arms or steering knuckle support)
         5-1/4

1952 Studebaker 169 Six

> You can also E-mail me if needed at mbstude@yahoo.com I also need info
> on a 52 Commander HT. (Production numbers...etc.)
mbstude - 29 Jun 2005 22:59 GMT
Thats a lot of very useful info, thanks. However, I am going have to
modify it. I really would like to restore it to original, but my uncle
the Mopar man owned it before me and he cut the frame and installed a
Chrysler sub-frame under it...the nerve of some people just ruining
good cars.
Jeff Rice - 29 Jun 2005 23:18 GMT
Hey a Studebaker not ruined until it is abandoned, crushed, or forgotten..

People get transplants and prosthetic's, why shouldn't cars?
I prefer to keep all my original parts, but the minute something screws up
real bad... it's outa here!
Jeff

"mbstude" wrote...
> Thats a lot of very useful info, thanks. However, I am going have to
> modify it. I really would like to restore it to original, but my uncle
> the Mopar man owned it before me and he cut the frame and installed a
> Chrysler sub-frame under it...the nerve of some people just ruining
> good cars.
mbstude - 29 Jun 2005 23:21 GMT
Well I guess you are right, at least they are being driven, right?
Don't you own the yellow 37 Coupe Express? Chevy motor with Stude valve
covers?
Jeff Rice - 29 Jun 2005 23:23 GMT
I prefer to call it a McKinnon engine..<lol>
Yep, one in the same....
Jeff

"mbstude"  wrote..
> Well I guess you are right, at least they are being driven, right?
> Don't you own the yellow 37 Coupe Express? Chevy motor with Stude valve
> covers?
mbstude - 29 Jun 2005 23:25 GMT
At least they are still being driven.
mbstude - 29 Jun 2005 23:01 GMT
We also have 3 other 52 HT's, a Commander 4-door, and one Convertible.
So actually I could just put another frame under it, But that's just
too much work, and I do like the Chrysler set up.
mbstude - 29 Jun 2005 23:07 GMT
Also, does anyone know how rare my 63 is?
mbstude - 29 Jun 2005 23:30 GMT
Wasn't the 65-66 Studes that were Canadian built equipped with McKinnon
engines?  ( A Chevy Motor, right?)
jbreen - 29 Jun 2005 23:56 GMT
I know of a gold 63' 2dr HT w/ red interior.  Auto tranny, bucket seats
w/ console.  Radio, heater......and you can see through all 4 floors
and through several areas in the cowl sections too......
Jeff Rice - 30 Jun 2005 00:00 GMT
Yessir, you are correct.
The McKinnon foundry in St. Catherine's, Ontario has been there for several
hundred years...
General motors bought them and sold engines to Studebaker, but wouldn't let
them use the name....
Hence the acronym 'McKinnon'...
Jeff

"mbstude" wrote...
> Wasn't the 65-66 Studes that were Canadian built equipped with McKinnon
> engines?  ( A Chevy Motor, right?)
Bob  Wagner - 30 Jun 2005 01:20 GMT
Welcome and enjoy the ride!

Dustybob
mbstudee@yahoo.com - 30 Jun 2005 01:41 GMT
Thanks for the welcome
mbstude - 30 Jun 2005 01:42 GMT
Gordon Richmond - 30 Jun 2005 02:28 GMT
Welcome aboard, Matthew.

Don't get dismayed if the rhetoric in here sometimes gets a little
intense and personal, especially on off-topic (OT) matters. The same
people that get in a verbal mudslinging match in here are just plain
folks when you get to meet 'em in person, and they all share a love of
Studebakers.

It's great to see a person of your generation taking an interest in
Studebakers.

Gord Richmond
Pat Drnec - 30 Jun 2005 02:31 GMT
Aw, we've been good lately..... mostly....

> Welcome aboard, Matthew.
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Gord Richmond

Signature

Remove all the x's to email.

What's wrong with answering a few simple questions?
http://johnconyers.com/

1953 Starlight Coupe
1954 Starlight Coupe R1/4-speed
1958 Silver Hawk
1960 Frua Italia Larks (2 - they're here!)
1962 Lark VI
1963 Avanti R2 R4324
1963 Lark Cruiser (R2 3/4 clone in progress)
1963 GT Hawk
1963 Daytona Wagonaire
1964 Cruiser (Survivor)
1956 2E7
2000 Boxster S
2000 Ducati 748
2002 Jeep Overland
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Gordon Richmond - 30 Jun 2005 10:02 GMT
Yer right, Pat.
I just wanted Matthew to understand that it's an abnormal situation.
<BOSEG>

Gord Richmond (and I will see you in Spokane, won't I?)
mbstude - 30 Jun 2005 22:48 GMT
Thanks all.
mbstude@yahoo.com - 01 Jul 2005 00:58 GMT
> Thanks all.

And also, I am not into this to sell it. This car was my mom's first
car, so it has a lt af value.............to me.
Jeff DeWitt - 30 Jun 2005 03:21 GMT
Hey Matt, welcome!

Sounds like you have a couple of neat Studes there, and you've come to
the mother lode of Stude info, I don't think you could could get better
information faster from any source ever, even when they were still
cranking new Studes out of South Bend.

Newsgroups are a little weird if all your used to is the web, as Usenet
is a much older part of the Internet then the web is.  If you access the
NG through the right ISP and use the right software you can see and post
pictures. (I use Thunderbird, some people use Outlook or Outlook
Express, some ISP's block binaries (pictures) from non binary newsgroups).

You can also get to the NG through Google, although it won't let you see
pictures it WILL let you search and it goes back for years.

Again, welcome, and don't be afraid to ask questions, chances are
whatever the question someone here knows the answer... and if you think
it might seem like a stupid question don't worry about it, most of us
have asked stupid questions too!  (I know I have <G>)

Jeff DeWitt

> My name is Matthew Burnette, I am 15 years old, and I own two
> Studebakers; a 63 Daytona HT, and a 52 Commander Starliner. Some of you
> may know my Grandad, Neil Thornton, whose Studee collection consists of
> about 50 Studes, restored and unrstored. I am new to the whole
> Newsgroup thing, so any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
 
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