Car Forum / Antique and Collectibles / Studebaker / June 2005
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mbstude - 29 Jun 2005 22:32 GMT My name is Matthew Burnette, I am 15 years old, and I own two Studebakers; a 63 Daytona HT, and a 52 Commander Starliner. Some of you may know my Grandad, Neil Thornton, whose Studee collection consists of about 50 Studes, restored and unrstored. I am new to the whole Newsgroup thing, so any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
64daytonaht - 29 Jun 2005 22:34 GMT Hi Matthew,
Welcome to the exciting world of Studedom.
What kind of help are you seeking?
Bo
> My name is Matthew Burnette, I am 15 years old, and I own two > Studebakers; a 63 Daytona HT, and a 52 Commander Starliner. Some of you > may know my Grandad, Neil Thornton, whose Studee collection consists of > about 50 Studes, restored and unrstored. I am new to the whole > Newsgroup thing, so any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. mbstude - 29 Jun 2005 22:39 GMT Well actually, I am still trying to figure this stuff out, so really no help is needed...yet. Thanks
Jeff Rice - 29 Jun 2005 22:41 GMT Welcome to the newsgroup Matthew... This is a great place to learn, share experiences, get tech info, and find stuff...Stude stuff... We only have a few guidelines here... Just be nice, and ask lot's of questions. Jeff
> My name is Matthew Burnette, I am 15 years old, and I own two > Studebakers; a 63 Daytona HT, and a 52 Commander Starliner. Some of you > may know my Grandad, Neil Thornton, whose Studee collection consists of > about 50 Studes, restored and unrstored. I am new to the whole > Newsgroup thing, so any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. mbstude - 29 Jun 2005 22:44 GMT Okay, sounds easy enough. I was recommended here by George Klutkowski, I think thats how to spell his name.
Jeff Rice - 29 Jun 2005 22:45 GMT We just call him StudeGeorge.....
"mbstude" wrote...
> Okay, sounds easy enough. I was recommended here by George Klutkowski, > I think thats how to spell his name. mbstude - 29 Jun 2005 22:46 GMT You can also E-mail me if needed at mbstude@yahoo.com I also need info on a 52 Commander HT. (Production numbers...etc.)
mbstude - 29 Jun 2005 22:51 GMT Yeah, StudeGeorge is a lot easier to spell. My 63 Daytona HT came from the factory with a six cylinder-auto trans, is this a somewhat rare combination in that kind of car? I would really like to hear from anyone who has a similar car, or knows anyting about it.
Jeff Rice - 29 Jun 2005 22:53 GMT Matthew, Here is a site that has the info you need...
http://64.78.5.28/public/454.cfm
(Just do a Google search and enter '1952 Studebaker production numbers') and here is what you get.... (pretty neat, huh?)
1952 Studebaker Production Statistics 1952 Studebaker Champion - 12G - 101,390 combined Model Weight Custom 4 Door Sedan 2,695 Custom 2 Door Sedan 2,655 Custom Coupe 5 passenger 2,660 DeLuxe 4 Door Sedan 2,720 DeLuxe 2 Door Sedan 2,685 DeLuxe Coupe 5 passenger 2,675 Regal 4 Door Sedan 2,725 Regal 2 Door Sedan 2,690 Regal Coupe 5 passenger 2,695 Regal Starliner Hardtop Coupe 2,860 Regal Convertible Coupe 2,870 1952 Studebaker Commander - 3H - 84,349 combined Regal 4 Door Sedan 3,085 Regal 2 Door Sedan 3,040 Regal Coupe 5 passenger 3,030 State 4 Door Sedan 3,075 State 2 Door Sedan 3,055 State Coupe 5 passenger 3,025 State Starliner Hardtop Coupe 3,220 State Convertible Coupe 3,230 Land Cruiser 4 Door Sedan 3,155
Engine Specifications: 1952 Studebaker 169 Six GENERAL SPECIFICATIONS Model Designation: Champion 6: 12G Wheel base: 115 Valve Location: In block Bore and Stroke: 3 x 4 Piston displacement, Cubic Inches: 169.6 Compression ratio: 7.00 Maximum Brake Horsepower: 85 @ 4000 RPM Maximum Torque Lbs.Ft. @ RPM: 138 @ 2400 RPM Normal Oil Pressure Pounds: 40 TUNE UP SPECIFICATIONS Spark Plug Make: Champion J7 Spark Plug Gap, Inch: .025 Firing Order: 153624 Ignition Timing: IGN on Vib. Damp. Engine Idle Speed, RPM: 500 Cylinder Head Torque Lbs.Ft.: 48 Compression Pressure & Cranking Speed: 115 Min. Voltage & Polarity: 6 volts, positive ground PISTON AND RING SPECIFICATIONS Fitting Pistons with Scale: Shim Thickness to use: .002 (1 inch wide feeler); Pounds Pull on Scale:: 11 to 16 Ring End Gap: (Fit rings in tapered bores for clearance shown in tightest portion of ring travel.) Compression: .007 Oil: .007 Clearance in Groove: Compression: .002-.0025; Oil: .0015-.002 Wristpin Diameter, Inch: .7491-.7495 VALVE SPECIFICATIONS Operating Clearance: Intake: .016 Cold Exhaust: .016 Cold Valve Seat Angle, degrees: 45 Valve Timing: (BTDC = before top dead center; ATDC = after top dead center) Intake opens: 15 degrees BTDC Exhaust Closes: 10 ATDC Valve Spring Pressure Pounds at Inches Length: Inner Spring: 54 @ 1-21/32 Valve Stem Clearance: Intake: .0015-.0035; Exhaust: .0015-.0035 Clearance for Timing Intake: .020 ENGINE BEARING SPECIFICATIONS Connecting Rod Bearings: Journal Diameter, Inches: 1.81175-1.81275 Bearing Clearance, Inch: .0005-.00215 Rod End Play, Inch: .005-.009 Rod Bolt Tension: Lbs.Ft.: 28-32 Main Bearings: Journal Diameter, Inches: 2.4370-2.4375 Bearing clearance: .0005-.0025 Shaft End Play: .003-.006 (Thrust on front bearing) Main Bolt Tension: Lbs.Ft.: 88-93 CAPACITY DATA Cooling System: Without heater: 10 quarts With heater: 11-1/2 quarts Fuel Tank: 18 gallons Engine Oil: 5 quarts Transmission: w/out overdrive: 1-1/2 pint; with overdrive: 2-3/4; w/auto. trans: 9-1/2 quarts Rear Axle: 2-1/2 pints AUTO-LITE DISTRIBUTOR SPECIFICATIONS Distributor part number: 1AT-4010 (distributor rotates counter-clockwise when viewed from top) Cam Angle, degrees: 39 Breaker Point opening, Inch: .020 (plus or minus .002) Condenser Capacity: .20-.25 Mfds. Breaker Arm Spring Tension: 17-20 Oz. Centrifugal Advance: (degrees at RPM of distributor) Advance starts: 1 degrees @ 550 Full Advance: 7 @ 1400 Vacuum Advance Data (degrees @ In. of Mercury): Advance starts: 1 @ 4-7/8 Full Advance: 9 @ 12 AUTO_LITE GENERATOR SPECIFICATIONS Generator Number: GGW-4801A (generator rotates clockwise, 6 volts, positive ground) Generator output: 45 amps @ 2125 RPM Brush Spring Tension: 35-53 oz. Field Current: 1.4 - 1.5 at 5 volts AUTO-LITE REGULATOR SPECIFICATIONS Regulator Number: VBE-6101A Cutout Relay: Voltage to close points: 6.5 Reverse Current to Open Points: 4-6 amps Armature Air Gap: .031 Voltage Regulator Setting: 7.3 volts Current Regulator Setting: 45 amps Current and voltage armature air gap, Inch: .048 AUTO-LITE STARTING MOTOR SPECIFICATIONS Part number: MZ-4157 (starter rotates clockwise) Bush Spring Tension, Ounces: 42-53 No Load Test: 68 amps, 5.0 volts @ 4000 RPM Torque Test: 280 Amps, 2.0 volts, Torque, Lbs.Ft.: 4.4 WHEEL ALIGNMENT SPECIFICATIONS Caster, Degrees Limits: -1 to +2-1/2 Desired: -1-3/4 Camber, Degrees Limits: 0 to +1 Desired: +1/2 Toe-In, Inches: 1/16 to 1/8 Toe-Out on Turns, Degrees: (If toe-out is incorrect, when other adjustments are correct, look for bent steering arms.) Outer wheel: 20 Inner Wheel: 22-1/2 to 23-1/2 Kingpin Angle, or Steering Axis Degrees: (If king pin or spindle support angle are incorrect, but camber is correct, look for bent suspension arms or steering knuckle support) 5-1/4
1952 Studebaker 169 Six
> You can also E-mail me if needed at mbstude@yahoo.com I also need info > on a 52 Commander HT. (Production numbers...etc.) mbstude - 29 Jun 2005 22:59 GMT Thats a lot of very useful info, thanks. However, I am going have to modify it. I really would like to restore it to original, but my uncle the Mopar man owned it before me and he cut the frame and installed a Chrysler sub-frame under it...the nerve of some people just ruining good cars.
Jeff Rice - 29 Jun 2005 23:18 GMT Hey a Studebaker not ruined until it is abandoned, crushed, or forgotten..
People get transplants and prosthetic's, why shouldn't cars? I prefer to keep all my original parts, but the minute something screws up real bad... it's outa here! Jeff
"mbstude" wrote...
> Thats a lot of very useful info, thanks. However, I am going have to > modify it. I really would like to restore it to original, but my uncle > the Mopar man owned it before me and he cut the frame and installed a > Chrysler sub-frame under it...the nerve of some people just ruining > good cars. mbstude - 29 Jun 2005 23:21 GMT Well I guess you are right, at least they are being driven, right? Don't you own the yellow 37 Coupe Express? Chevy motor with Stude valve covers?
Jeff Rice - 29 Jun 2005 23:23 GMT I prefer to call it a McKinnon engine..<lol> Yep, one in the same.... Jeff
"mbstude" wrote..
> Well I guess you are right, at least they are being driven, right? > Don't you own the yellow 37 Coupe Express? Chevy motor with Stude valve > covers? mbstude - 29 Jun 2005 23:25 GMT At least they are still being driven.
mbstude - 29 Jun 2005 23:01 GMT We also have 3 other 52 HT's, a Commander 4-door, and one Convertible. So actually I could just put another frame under it, But that's just too much work, and I do like the Chrysler set up.
mbstude - 29 Jun 2005 23:07 GMT Also, does anyone know how rare my 63 is?
mbstude - 29 Jun 2005 23:30 GMT Wasn't the 65-66 Studes that were Canadian built equipped with McKinnon engines? ( A Chevy Motor, right?)
jbreen - 29 Jun 2005 23:56 GMT I know of a gold 63' 2dr HT w/ red interior. Auto tranny, bucket seats w/ console. Radio, heater......and you can see through all 4 floors and through several areas in the cowl sections too......
Jeff Rice - 30 Jun 2005 00:00 GMT Yessir, you are correct. The McKinnon foundry in St. Catherine's, Ontario has been there for several hundred years... General motors bought them and sold engines to Studebaker, but wouldn't let them use the name.... Hence the acronym 'McKinnon'... Jeff
"mbstude" wrote...
> Wasn't the 65-66 Studes that were Canadian built equipped with McKinnon > engines? ( A Chevy Motor, right?) Bob Wagner - 30 Jun 2005 01:20 GMT Welcome and enjoy the ride!
Dustybob
mbstudee@yahoo.com - 30 Jun 2005 01:41 GMT Thanks for the welcome
mbstude - 30 Jun 2005 01:42 GMT Gordon Richmond - 30 Jun 2005 02:28 GMT Welcome aboard, Matthew.
Don't get dismayed if the rhetoric in here sometimes gets a little intense and personal, especially on off-topic (OT) matters. The same people that get in a verbal mudslinging match in here are just plain folks when you get to meet 'em in person, and they all share a love of Studebakers.
It's great to see a person of your generation taking an interest in Studebakers.
Gord Richmond
Pat Drnec - 30 Jun 2005 02:31 GMT Aw, we've been good lately..... mostly....
> Welcome aboard, Matthew. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Gord Richmond
 Signature Remove all the x's to email.
What's wrong with answering a few simple questions? http://johnconyers.com/
1953 Starlight Coupe 1954 Starlight Coupe R1/4-speed 1958 Silver Hawk 1960 Frua Italia Larks (2 - they're here!) 1962 Lark VI 1963 Avanti R2 R4324 1963 Lark Cruiser (R2 3/4 clone in progress) 1963 GT Hawk 1963 Daytona Wagonaire 1964 Cruiser (Survivor) 1956 2E7 2000 Boxster S 2000 Ducati 748 2002 Jeep Overland 2004 Ducati Monster 1000 http://homepage.mac.com/pdrnec/PhotoAlbum81.html
Gordon Richmond - 30 Jun 2005 10:02 GMT Yer right, Pat. I just wanted Matthew to understand that it's an abnormal situation. <BOSEG>
Gord Richmond (and I will see you in Spokane, won't I?)
mbstude - 30 Jun 2005 22:48 GMT Thanks all.
mbstude@yahoo.com - 01 Jul 2005 00:58 GMT > Thanks all. And also, I am not into this to sell it. This car was my mom's first car, so it has a lt af value.............to me.
Jeff DeWitt - 30 Jun 2005 03:21 GMT Hey Matt, welcome!
Sounds like you have a couple of neat Studes there, and you've come to the mother lode of Stude info, I don't think you could could get better information faster from any source ever, even when they were still cranking new Studes out of South Bend.
Newsgroups are a little weird if all your used to is the web, as Usenet is a much older part of the Internet then the web is. If you access the NG through the right ISP and use the right software you can see and post pictures. (I use Thunderbird, some people use Outlook or Outlook Express, some ISP's block binaries (pictures) from non binary newsgroups).
You can also get to the NG through Google, although it won't let you see pictures it WILL let you search and it goes back for years.
Again, welcome, and don't be afraid to ask questions, chances are whatever the question someone here knows the answer... and if you think it might seem like a stupid question don't worry about it, most of us have asked stupid questions too! (I know I have <G>)
Jeff DeWitt
> My name is Matthew Burnette, I am 15 years old, and I own two > Studebakers; a 63 Daytona HT, and a 52 Commander Starliner. Some of you > may know my Grandad, Neil Thornton, whose Studee collection consists of > about 50 Studes, restored and unrstored. I am new to the whole > Newsgroup thing, so any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
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