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Car Forum / Antique and Collectibles / Studebaker / August 2005Low miliage ?
OK, need some suggestions on my new GT Hawk. It was listed on ebay as a 25,000 mile car, which I took with a large grain of salt. Now, I'm not so sure about how to judge if it's possible. Here's what I do know: The car was purchased my a elderly gent for his wife in July of 1963 and was driven by her until parked in the garage in 1972. The guy I bought him from shipped in from California and put it back on the road in 2003 and drove it another 1200 miles before I bought it. That would mean that the old gal only drove it 23,000 miles in the 9 years she used it.The original Ca. title did list the 23,000 mile figure though. The car never smokes, does not leak oil, front suspension is tight, no rattles at all, even the window fuzzies are tight. It goes down the road better than most any Hawk I've owned. The pedals, steering wheel and arm rests show no wear. It still had the factory double bend heater hose, the inside of the water pump housing and the valve train is clean as a whistle, as is the frame. Still has the factory shocks and carpets, no sign of any restoration except a very old repaint in the factory color. I'm convinced it's not a 125,000 mile car, but the 25,000 mile figure still seems unlikely. Anything else I should look for ? When I ebay it, I guess I'll just pass on the information I'm sure of.  SignatureJP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 T cab truck 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 64 Challenger (Plain Wrapper ?) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 63 GT Hawk 54 Starlight Sounds like a 25K mile car to me. Easiest (and most honest) approach IMO is to say the it is documented as a 25K mile car (California title transfer includes a statement of actual mileage or that the mileage is not accurate) and that telltale signs indicate that this is the truth, but that with a 42 year old car, anything is possible. > OK, need some suggestions on my new GT Hawk. It was listed on ebay as a > 25,000 mile car, which I took with a large grain of salt. Now, I'm not [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > still seems unlikely. Anything else I should look for ? When I ebay it, > I guess I'll just pass on the information I'm sure of. SignatureRemove all the x's to email. The only label that fits: http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_6966.shtml "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ---Teddy Roosevelt, 1918 1953 Starlight Coupe 1954 Starlight Coupe R1/4-speed 1958 Silver Hawk 1960 Frua Italia Larks (2 - they're here!) 1962 Lark VI 1962 Lark Convertible 1963 Avanti R2 R4324 1963 Lark Cruiser (R2 3/4 clone in progress) 1963 GT Hawk 1963 Daytona Wagonaire 1964 Cruiser (Survivor) 1956 2E7 2004 Porsche Carrera 4S 2000 Ducati 748 2002 Jeep Overland 2004 Ducati Monster 1000 http://homepage.mac.com/pdrnec/PhotoAlbum81.html Dennis at SASCO me a good idea. He suggested I pull the front drum and look for factory brake linings. He figures even if they'd replaced the wheel cylinders after storage, they should have not need to do the shoes at 23,000. I like the wording of your disclaimer, it seems the most honest. > Sounds like a 25K mile car to me. Easiest (and most honest) approach > IMO is to say the it is documented as a 25K mile car (California title [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >> figure still seems unlikely. Anything else I should look for ? When I >> ebay it, I guess I'll just pass on the information I'm sure of. SignatureJP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 T cab truck 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 64 Challenger (Plain Wrapper ?) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 63 GT Hawk 54 Starlight What about the front suspension?,seems a 125k car would need something > OK, need some suggestions on my new GT Hawk. It was listed on ebay as a > 25,000 mile car, which I took with a large grain of salt. Now, I'm not so [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > still seems unlikely. Anything else I should look for ? When I ebay it, I > guess I'll just pass on the information I'm sure of. Bushing rubber has some age cracks, but the front end is still very tight, no slop in the bushings and they are intact. I checked the brakes and in my opinion the shoes were replaced as part of a recent professional brake job in the last few years. The shoes are riveted, and I don't think that was stock, but the drums have never been turned, nor do they need it. > What about the front suspension?,seems a 125k car would need something > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >>still seems unlikely. Anything else I should look for ? When I ebay it, I >>guess I'll just pass on the information I'm sure of. SignatureJP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 T cab truck 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 64 Challenger (Plain Wrapper ?) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 63 GT Hawk 54 Starlight My Lark had 24K original miles when I got it, the bushings were trashed - apparently they were so dry rotted they disintegrated on the trailer ride to JP's. I don't think that will tell you anything - ANY Stude needs front end work, unless it's already been done. nate > What about the front suspension?,seems a 125k car would need something > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >>still seems unlikely. Anything else I should look for ? When I ebay it, I >>guess I'll just pass on the information I'm sure of. Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel Look at the cylinder head casting numbers above the center exhaust ports. Are they still sharp and readable? Or are they mostly burnt away? Not sure what it proves, but the numbers are sharp and clear. > Look at the cylinder head casting numbers above the center exhaust ports. > Are they still sharp and readable? Or are they mostly burnt away? SignatureJP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 T cab truck 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 64 Challenger (Plain Wrapper ?) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 63 GT Hawk 54 Starlight > Not sure what it proves, but the numbers are sharp and clear .............................................. Doesn't prove anything. But it might indicate that there is a lot less run time on that engine. I can't really read the numbers on my Champ, but they are very sharp and clear on my 11,000 mile Avanti. > OK, need some suggestions on my new GT Hawk. It was listed on ebay as a > 25,000 mile car, which I took with a large grain of salt. Now, I'm not so [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > still seems unlikely. Anything else I should look for ? When I ebay it, I > guess I'll just pass on the information I'm sure of. U-joints- are they the original type with no grease fitting? Rear pinion seal- most people never bother with one that is just seeping a little. Rear spring bushings? Paul Johnson Remember, they are original only once. I think you have one of those. Hmmmm gonna be a keeper or a seller? Bob Miles Tucson AZ Going to turn it in a week or so once I go through everything. Today, I pulled the door panels and lubed up the regulators, cleaned out the dirt and debris from the door bottoms and undercoated the inside. I buffed out the paint and just repainted the red/white/and blue emblems. (fine for a driver, and would be replaced if the car was show restored anyway.) > Remember, they are original only once. I think you have one of those. > Hmmmm gonna be a keeper or a seller? > > Bob Miles > Tucson AZ SignatureJP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 T cab truck 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 64 Challenger (Plain Wrapper ?) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 63 GT Hawk 54 Starlight Whoever gets it: don't restore it. Enjoy it as an original. Besides, short of paying off all the judges past and present, you will only get a second place on a GT Hawk after spending $$$$$ for a restoration of an original car. OK stirring the pot <g> Bob Miles Tucson AZ So are you saying I should just treat my GT Hawk with care but no matter what I do I could never do better than 2nd. Karin 1962 GT HAWK > Whoever gets it: don't restore it. Enjoy it as an original. Besides, > short of paying off all the judges past and present, you will only get [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Bob Miles > Tucson AZ Not with the judges we had the last seven years. > So are you saying I should just treat my GT Hawk with care but no matter > what I do I could never do better than 2nd. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >>Bob Miles >>Tucson AZ SignatureJP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 T cab truck 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 64 Challenger (Plain Wrapper ?) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 63 GT Hawk 54 Starlight How tight are the window mechanisms and are they the same on both sides? Usually, on a higher milage car the drivers side window regulator is looser. > Going to turn it in a week or so once I go through everything. Today, I > pulled the door panels and lubed up the regulators, cleaned out the dirt [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> Bob Miles >> Tucson AZ It could be a lower mileage car that has had the speedometer replaced. My Grandpa's 53 had the speedometer replaced at 40,000 or so miles. Nick Yep, that possible too. > It could be a lower mileage car that has had the speedometer replaced. > My Grandpa's 53 had the speedometer replaced at 40,000 or so miles. > > Nick SignatureJP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 T cab truck 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 64 Challenger (Plain Wrapper ?) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 63 GT Hawk 54 Starlight Not a good test for a car that sat for 30 years. It took me a while to get them both working smoothly. > How tight are the window mechanisms and are they the same on both sides? > Usually, on a higher milage car the drivers side window regulator is [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >>>Bob Miles >>>Tucson AZ SignatureJP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 T cab truck 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 64 Challenger (Plain Wrapper ?) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 63 GT Hawk 54 Starlight Any oil change stickers on the doors? Studebaker part number on fan belt? Any original tires or spare? Plastic or metal cover on master cylinder? General wear around the driver's side. Any notebooks in seat pockets, etc? > Any oil change stickers on the doors? No, but the battery warning decal is still in place. > Studebaker part number on fan belt? Not that I noticed, but they were rock hard > Any original tires or spare? new radials, old F78 15 spare, but both of those could be age related, wheel paint is near perfect under the hub cap. > Plastic or metal cover on master cylinder? Metal > General wear around the driver's side. No wear to speak of, but seam spitting on drivers cushion, headliner had a mouse get to it. N8 noticed the door latches were very nice. > Any notebooks in seat pockets, etc? Just a old Japanese language ad or coupon so far. <g> The factory jute padding is still glued to the factory floor with most of the factory paint still there. SignatureJP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 T cab truck 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 64 Challenger (Plain Wrapper ?) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 63 GT Hawk 54 Starlight Pedal cover wear? It's been known that a few dealers will swap out very nice pads and gas pedals to give a car that low mileage look.It's the first thing I always look at. Bob40 >> Any oil change stickers on the doors? > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > The factory jute padding is still glued to the factory floor with most of > the factory paint still there. nothing "unlikely" about the number of miles driven in 9 years. (I've driven my Avanti less than 9000 miles in 23 years) but when you say it doesn't leak any oil ---- now we know you're smokin something funny! Hell, even the rear end is dry on the outside. No leaks that I can find from the engine, trans, or power steering. The radiator did after we flushed it with the Studebaker flush, but we swapped it. The door drains were sure plugged up with plant debris, so even the door would not "leak."<g> I'd suggest everyone pull the door panels on their Studebaker now and than, and lube everything and clean out the doors. I may remove all the stainless to get rid of the crap trapped underneath too. The car sat under a tree for a year or so, and was a compose generator where leaves were trapped. its from Click wrote: > nothing "unlikely" about the number of miles driven in 9 years. (I've > driven my Avanti less than 9000 miles in 23 years) > > but when you say it doesn't leak any oil ---- now we know you're smokin > something funny! SignatureJP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 T cab truck 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 64 Challenger (Plain Wrapper ?) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 63 GT Hawk 54 Starlight |
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