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Car Forum / Antique and Collectibles / Studebaker / August 2005More Automotive Food for Thought - wow!
He's at it again, for those of you who are fascinated by the general automobile market: http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/invest/extra/P113050.asp I confess to my fascination with this because I watched my Dad and his brother, good men who operated a quality, customer-oriented dealership, just about starve to death between 1953 and 1956, largely at GM's hand. Their motto was "Sales and GOOD Service," with the word "GOOD" always capitalized on their letterhead, matchbook and pen advertising, etc. Sure, I was only ten years old in 1956, but I was already fascinated with the car business and was paying attention to what was going on...and I've heard all the stories a hundred times. I was at "the garage" all day July 31, 1956, when they sold out at auction; clearly the saddest day of their lives to date. But with no more real Packards for 1957 and seven mouths to feed in addition to their own, they just "did what they had to do." Dad said they paid over $1,000 for a comprehensive set of new Twin-Ultramatic Service Tools in 1955, only to watch their transmission man take them home for his high bid of $75. I don't think the huge vertical PACKARD neon sign on the front of the building drew any bid at all! My father would have expected routine, round-trip travel to Mars by 2005 before he would have expected to see General Motors in this condition that same year. Unbelievable. BP > My father would have expected routine, round-trip travel to Mars by > 2005 before he would have expected to see General Motors in this > condition that same year. > > Unbelievable. BP Perhaps EVERY General Motors employee from the secretaries in the office to the factory workers, and all the way to the C.E.O., plus ALL the dealers should do a case study on the Rise and Fall of British Leyland. Then they can take the facts, analyze them, and see where 'their' GM went wrong and just how closely they've been following BMC/BL's bloodguilty trail to oblivion, and stop the same slide from happening at GM before its too late!. British Motor Corporation was formed like General Motors was; the amalgamation of several smaller brands and a couple of prestigious coachbuilders. In the early sixties, BMC was still 'healthy' at the time with 40% of the British market and a strong presence in most export markets including the US and Canada. Deep down, even back then, there were a few serious problems like the profit margin on a Mini being so low, more than 2 extra hours to fix a problem meant a loss on that car. But it was the family car division which almost every volume automaker depends upon for survival that was starting to lose ground with the badge engineering. In the 50's, Austin, Morris, MG, Riley, Wolseley, and Vanden Plas had their own unique body and engine. These marques had their steady repeat customers back then like GM did. By 1961 the Farina body had taken over as the volume line with little difference other then the front and rear, and two engine choices. (Unless you count the R-R supplied engine in the 4-Liter R Vanden Plas offered a couple of years later.) This alienated a lot of the buyers in the high profit Riley and Wolseley class, and the MG crowd rightfully complained the MG-badged version was not a 'real' Magnette, and naturally, sales went down the tubes. Like Riley and Woseley, Oldmobile is now consigned to history. Which GM division will be be next??.... I'm stopping now! Others here can add to why MG-Rover only had 2% of the market in 2005 before declaring 'insolvency'. Let's hear about about the huge labor problem in the seventies (something GM had to deal with as well) ; the old outdated plant(s) in Coventry. (parallel it to Detroit). Craig. As always Craig and Bob well thought out posts. I find it ironic that GM is now getting a taste of the medicine they forced on all the independent auto makers back in 53-54. Economic conditons were also a factor back then but the combined market of the independents in 1950 was at 15 percent falling to just at 8 percent in 54. 1955 was a banner year for the industry; output finally exceeded the record year in 1929. Market share increase for certain GM makes, Ford and Chrysler. Nash and Hudson used a 4 year old design, Studebakers was 3 and Packard did a nice facelift on the 51 body that looked new. Packards did not sell as well as the 53 model year and collasped in 56 (very sad). Those that fail to study history are doomed to repeat it; how true. GM now is being dictated to by the consumer who likes the imports and not the other way around. As someone said, on a radio program I was listening to a couple of weeks ago, if Buick and Pontiac disappeared, as well as GMC, there would still be a GM car for everyone to drive. Bob Miles Tucson AZ Actually, Bob, my Dad always felt that Packard could have sold twice as many 1955s if they could have built them. They had terrible start-up production problems with the new Conner Avenue plant and simply couldn't get the cars built...and when they did, there were many defects in the units shipped; unacceptable for a marque of Packard's stature. My father did not receive ANY, repeat ANY, 1955 Packards of any model, Clippers or otherwise, until the last week of January 1955, long after the Cadillac dealer right next door had delivered how many 1955 Cadillacs beginning October 1954? Dad and Uncle Milt were so excited about the new V-8 1955 Packards that were so good-looking, but they just couldn't get any. To wit: Christmas 1954. A regular customer and his son, home from college for Christmas, came into Palma Motors. The kid's Dad said the kid could pick out any new car for the family. They had seen the new Packards in the advertising and came in to buy one. My Dad still had not received any and did not know when he would get his first '55...and this was Christmas 1954! Before Christmas vacation was over, Dad saw that family driving around town in a new 1955 Buick Super. How many times was that repeated across the country? 18 months later, Dad and his brother had to sell out. BP I had forgotten about that Bob and your dad is probably right on that. I remember reading about the Conner plant and its problems. GM now does not have the problems of productivity but the problems of having cars that people wanna buy. I did see my first Cobalt on the road the other day; undistinguished appearance over the cavalier. I also just saw the Ford 500; Tauraus with a glandular condition. I have seen one Buick LaCrosse also. Tucson and Pima County are close to 750,000 population but where are the cars that were supposed to be hot this year? Bob Miles Tucson Az Well, Bob, there are probably a handful of new 2005 Mustangs rolling around out there, aren't there? That has been at least one bright spot for the domestic industry this year. I had lunch today with an old car dealer buddy passing through who now lives in the LA California area. He said 2005 Mustang GT convertibles are selling well over sticker out there, as long as they are GTs. BP Yup we do have some Mustang running around. My daughter ( who is expecting our first grandchild in Sept) has a 96 Mustang Ragtop that she is still driving 8 months along. I told her to keep it and just drop the top to put the baby in and then put the top up afterward <g>. We are also seeing alot of the 300/Magnum/New Charger running around but I did not want to mention is for appearing to be pro mopar. Bob Miles Tucson AZ > Well, Bob, there are probably a handful of new 2005 Mustangs rolling > around out there, aren't there? That has been at least one bright spot > for the domestic industry this year. Yep, there are quite a few of the new 2005 Mustangs running around here as well. Shows a car that doesn't look like a half-used bar of soap can sell well. The one GM product out there that seems to be selling rather well in this area is the Avalanche. Is that the same for your area? Craig. There were a few as we went through the SUV craze like everyone else. Now the imports are far as the 4 door sedans go seem to be everywhere. A short time Malibu's popped up but now it seems to Maxima's and Camry's as well as the Lexus variant of the Camry. Gas has inched up to 2.35. Market seems to be in flux as it has been over the last 10-15 years. My son in law and daughter are holding on to the 96 Mustang and 99 Honda 4 door small SUV until after they sell their condo and get a home before they look at a new vehicle. Both cars have about 150k miles but run good. Bob Miles Tucson AZ >Well, Bob, there are probably a handful of new 2005 Mustangs rolling >around out there, aren't there? That has been at least one bright spot >for the domestic industry this year. I had lunch today with an old car >dealer buddy passing through who now lives in the LA California area. >He said 2005 Mustang GT convertibles are selling well over sticker out >there, as long as they are GTs. BP They cannot move the new T-Bird here, and Mustang sales here are not that strong. You don't see them here at all. >>Well, Bob, there are probably a handful of new 2005 Mustangs rolling >>around out there, aren't there? That has been at least one bright spot [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > They cannot move the new T-Bird here, and Mustang sales here are not > that strong. You don't see them here at all. the T-bird is dead, dead, dead but the Mustang seems to be quite the success around here. I have to admit that I would probably buy one were I not just given a company car. nate  Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel >> They cannot move the new T-Bird here, and Mustang sales here are not >> that strong. You don't see them here at all. > > the T-bird is dead, dead, dead but the Mustang seems to be quite the > success around here. I have to admit that I would probably buy one were I > not just given a company car. I am aware of that about the new T-Bird. A little over a year ago at the all-make Show'n'Shine, which is held by the local Nifty-Fifty's Ford Club, Metro Ford was one the sponsors. There were two brand new Thunderbirds (2004) on display and I asked one of the salesman how well they are selling. He explained "not well" and Ford has done a rather poor marketing job with the high price, and for a couple of thousand more, one can have the 'cachet' in a BMW Z4 or a Mercedes Benz SLK. And with the SLK, you get the novelty of the metal retractable hardtop roof. Craig. Does anyone see the forest for the trees? Studebaker and Packard had both a speciality product that was the center piece of the brand line. The Caribbean and the Hawk and Avanti line were things that brought people in the show rooms. Then, as Bob P pointed out, people could not get what they wanted with the start up of the 55 line. What about the start up of the Avanti? What sustained the line though did not sell. The bread and butter cars either did not have enough bread or butter to keep things going. IMHO. Yep the Mustangs and 300's and Trailblazers are selling or drawing others in but are they leaving in Malibu's Tauraus or Sebring/Stratus? If someone walks into a Honda, Nissan or Toyota dealer and looks at the eye candy du jour, chances are they will leave in a different model than what they went into look at. Bob Miles Tucson AZ Yep: Early Avanti production was a nightmare. They could have easily delivered three times as many Avantis in the first 12 months it was out if they had been able to build them. Late June or early July 1962, honest: Cousin George Krem and I sneaked through an empty box car on a railroad siding next to one of the [later] TransWestern Buildings (now demolished) and right onto an early Avanti "assembly line," such as it was. It was an early line because the primary Avanti we examined being built was black, which was discontinued early on. We struck up a conversation with an interior assembler (working around the dashboard, as I recall) about building Avantis. He was not a happy camper because he was used to building medium-duty TRUCKS, which were right on the same line. (Yep, during the earliest Avanti production, they were being squeezed in among medium-duty trucks. No bull; we saw it first-hand.) Of course, it was a lot easier to work on trucks with lots of room than to work on these new-fangled Avantis. History has proven how receptive Studebaker's UAW local was to any changes that might benefit the company...you know, like introducing a popular new model. Anyway, we talked to him maybe ten minutes while looking around for a guard. We figured the guard was at lunch since it was about that time of day. So we got braver and walked around a little more along the "line" until we were caught, as usual, and escorted to the nearest exit. "No problem;" we had seen what we wanted to see. Applicable market analysis: Most early Avanti buyers were not your typical Studebaker customer. They had money and were used to getting what they wanted when they wanted it. And let's face it, most Studebaker dealerships by then didn't have the higher-class salesmen with whom those kind of customers were used to interacting. SO, when there were repeated delays in getting an Avanti they wanted, they just cancelled their order and went back to the Buick dealership where they were treated more "normally," you might say, and bought one of the equally-all-new, nice-looking, 1963 Buick Rivieras. Or, for the more sporty-minded, a radically-new Corvette Sting Ray. Really. And THAT'S that's why the Avanti wasn't the sales success it COULD have been. It wasn't the car's fault that all the body and assembly problems came to bear so soon after it was introduced to deserved fanfare. BP > Yep: Early Avanti production was a nightmare. They could have easily > delivered three times as many Avantis in the first 12 months it was out > if they had been able to build them. ... > Applicable market analysis: Most early Avanti buyers were not your > typical Studebaker customer. They had money and were used to getting [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > been. It wasn't the car's fault that all the body and assembly problems > came to bear so soon after it was introduced to deserved fanfare. BP In the spring of '63 I was in a factory dealership in Kansas City, MO. The salesman I was talking to said a local distilling company had come in when Avantis were introduced and ordered seven of them for their salesmen to drive. After six months of not being able to fill the order, it was cancelled. This dealer had taken some interesting trades on the few Avantis they had gotten- like a '56 Mercedes Gull-Wing Coupe, a six-moth old Corvair Monza convertible, late Thunderbirds, etc. Customers included a Catholic priest. Paul Johnson Yep. Thanks for the confirmation, Paul. BP Oh Craig! I was almost as saddened by the downfall of the British auto industry as I was with Studebaker's. I spent many good years with those cars. And Magnette? Loved that 'baby limo'. Take heart, you be able to buy a British car made is China soon<g> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4708739.stm > Oh Craig! > I was almost as saddened by the downfall of the British auto industry as I > was with Studebaker's. I spent many good years with those cars. And > Magnette? Loved that 'baby limo'. SignatureJP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 T cab truck 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 64 Challenger (Plain Wrapper ?) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 63 GT Hawk 61 Hawk 54 Starlight |
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