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Car Forum / Antique and Collectibles / Studebaker / August 2005800 hp R-3
A week or so ago my eBay auction for a complete NOS R-3 tach set-up closed at my reserve of $1500 (much JP's surprise and mine too). My buyer's handle is "r3avanti800hp". In sorting out details from him I quizzed him about his title. This is info he sent me: "Special flow work to heads, Cosworth pistions, boring of the block, better valves, and Carillo rods, on the dyno it produced 821 horse power, better ign. and etc. The R-3 block that I have is a B-100 cid is at 335, extremely well ballanced down to every rotating part, very strong rods, and very light weight pistons, this engine raps up extremely fast at 135 mph you can punch it and it will burn both back tires, I feel certain it is above and beyond a 200 mph machine, R-5 I don't think so, R-6 maybe. On the heads are addapted roller tappets, better push rods, and special work on the flow part of the ports. I have extra pair of R-3 heads, know anyone interested? These are aluminum. The fastest I ran this engine was in one of my Avanti's I backed off at 165 mph, front end a little shaky made me nurvous, I assure you was only a little more then half way into the throttle. I am now working on this Avanti project which this engine and components will go into, it will be right for this car, total frame off, and on a blank body shell, will be orginal black, with elk interior, have all nos, even tilt-wheel and the most scarce option I have found yet the rear window tinted with sunband, any way this Avanti is fully optioned out, will make a great show car, and I assume will sale for a few quarters..." He isn't a SDC or Avanti Owners member- claims too busy, too much traveling. He lives in Wichita, KS (I looked up his address with Google Earth and he looks prosperous). For what it's worth. Paul Johnson Must be some good spring water flowing in Kansas... Jeff (same water Dorothy was drinking) Rice "Paul Johnson" wrote... >A week or so ago my eBay auction for a complete NOS R-3 tach set-up closed >at my reserve of $1500 (much JP's surprise and mine too). My buyer's [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > For what it's worth. > Paul Johnson Nuh, Kansas is one of those semi-dry states. . .some counties 3.2 beer & wine only, some normal and then some are completely dry at least thats the way it use to be. I think he may be growing his own wacky weed and smoking too much of the stuff. <G> > Must be some good spring water flowing in Kansas... > Jeff (same water Dorothy was drinking) Rice [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >> For what it's worth. >> Paul Johnson We SDC members who live in Wichita are wondering how this high profile guy stayed under our radar. Perhaps it's not too late to recruit him..... Sounds like the guy is a real loner, never heard of his car or him, sad for such a unique machine. If it's really 821 HP, that would be a 9 second 1/4 mile car. > A week or so ago my eBay auction for a complete NOS R-3 tach set-up closed > at my reserve of $1500 (much JP's surprise and mine too). My buyer's handle [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > For what it's worth. > Paul Johnson  SignatureJP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 64 Challenger (Plain Wrapper ?) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 63 GT Hawk OD. 61 Hawk 54 Starlight i never seen carillo rods for a stude do they make them, the aluminum heads are cool but they take a sh.t load of work to make them fit, stones oil pump he made to tight will seaze up on you but when it all over you have one hell of a sounding studebaker r-3 sound way cool 450 to 600 hp 800 hp is to hard to get Yep, You can have a set of Carillo rods made, I know a guy in LA that did, (Actually had 3 sets made) $1200 a set, also went down to Paxton, and bought 2 new superchargers, one 10# boost the other 15#. Wasn't sure which blower he was going to use! Pat D. has his old 54 Commander Jim Turner He still has a set of those rods available, I thought about them for the Avanti rebuild, but decided polishing the Stude rods was more prudent. > Yep, You can have a set of Carillo rods made, I know a guy in LA that did, > (Actually had 3 sets made) $1200 a set, also went down to Paxton, and bought > 2 new superchargers, one 10# boost the other 15#. Wasn't sure which blower > he was going to use! Pat D. has his old 54 Commander > > Jim Turner SignatureRemove all the x's to email. The only label that fits: http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_6966.shtml "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ---Teddy Roosevelt, 1918 1953 Starlight Coupe 1954 Starlight Coupe R1/4-speed 1958 Silver Hawk 1960 Frua Italia Larks (2 - they're here!) 1962 Lark VI 1962 Lark Convertible 1963 Avanti R2 R4324 1963 Lark Cruiser (R2 3/4 clone in progress) 1963 GT Hawk 1963 Daytona Wagonaire 1964 Cruiser (Survivor) 1956 2E7 2004 Porsche Carrera 4S 2000 Ducati 748 2002 Jeep Overland 2004 Ducati Monster 1000 http://homepage.mac.com/pdrnec/PhotoAlbum81.html Yep, and that $1200 was 15+ years ago Jim Turner How many over is 335 ci? I know 304.5 is .93 over. Maybe 120? That is getting the cylinder wall pretty thin wouldn't you say? I know when Tucker did his Avanti, he bored it .125 over and struck water! He ended up sieving 2 or 3 cylinders. The water jackets in the Stude blocks are NOT in straight. Jim Turner (according to the online calculator at: http://www.csgnetwork.com/cubicinchdispcalc.html ) With a standard throw crank.... .120" overbore = 308 cid .250" overbore - 331 cid With a .250 stroker crank ('if' you could swing a crank like that without hitting the cam) std bore = 309 cid .120" overbore = 330 cid On Sonny's racing site there's a forum member running a drag Stude with a massive overbore (sleeved and welded block). I guess anything is possible, depending on which pipe you smoke. Jeff "Michael - Roseland FL" wrote... > How many over is 335 ci? I know 304.5 is .93 over. Maybe 120? That is > getting the cylinder wall pretty thin wouldn't you say? Wichita has a large car buff community, lots of custom cars in and around there, With Boeing, Beechcraft, Cessna and the millitary base being there, I'm sure there are some quite talented people there, I'd give this guy the benifit of a doubt. while 800hp sounds high, horsepower numbers are only proven on a dyno, Bob Whiten Wagonmaster http://community.webtv.net/zzbob/StudebakersandMore I didn't say it was impossible, but I did say I desperately wanted him to prove me wrong. I want to see the machine that goes along with the claims, that's all. Florida is car buff country too. We have rocket scientists here...so we are smart folk two. Jeff (Notice they let the rockets come down in someone else's back yard?) Rice "Wagonmaster" wrote... > Wichita has a large car buff community, > lots of custom cars in and around there, > With Boeing, Beechcraft, Cessna and the millitary base being there, > I'm sure there are some quite talented people there, I'd give this guy > the benifit of a doubt. > while 800hp sounds high, horsepower numbers are only proven on a dyno, I think I may have a handle on who it may be. But he will identify himself when he wants to. Jim in Tulsa >A week or so ago my eBay auction for a complete NOS R-3 tach set-up closed >at my reserve of $1500 (much JP's surprise and mine too). My buyer's [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > For what it's worth. > Paul Johnson > A week or so ago my eBay auction for a complete NOS R-3 tach set-up closed > at my reserve of $1500 (much JP's surprise and mine too). My buyer's handle [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > For what it's worth. > Paul Johnson Hmmm.... a set of aluminum R-3 heads? (stifle) Nah, I don't know anyone that would be interested. nate (the cynic in me wants to ask if they've been machined to actually work yet...) Well, to cut to the chase Nate....... I can see the aluminum R3 heads having a place in the Hi-po Stude world... Kind of like having the 'correct' aluminum heads on your 'correct' Corvette... But trying to get any (repeat ANY) Stude head to flow the kind of numbers that will develop 800 HP without something special (like massive turbo boost, a big a.s'd blower, or a ton of nitrous is magazine fodder. All the 'items' in the last post were straight out of Hot Rod magazine. I'll buy all the beer the guy can drink if he backs it up and puts me in my place... I'd love to see it because he'd be our new hero and savior de-jour in the Stude world.... But... The cynic in me wants to see an action pic of ANY Avanti backing out of it at a buck sixty five.... I'd pay to see that just for the enjoyment of seeing that. I've seen what happens to Avanti back glass at a buck thirty..... Jeff (Oh, but that was Chevy powered........never mind <lol>) Rice "N8N" wrote... > Hmmm.... a set of aluminum R-3 heads? (stifle) Nah, I don't know > anyone that would be interested. > (the cynic in me wants to ask if they've been machined to actually work > yet...) I spoke with T-Bow at South Bend - he told me he put a set of Stone's early aluminum R3 heads on a customer's car and they worked great. Not an endorsement, I just figured the guy gets so much heat he deserves a stroke when he does it right. >>A week or so ago my eBay auction for a complete NOS R-3 tach set-up closed >>at my reserve of $1500 (much JP's surprise and mine too). My buyer's handle [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > (the cynic in me wants to ask if they've been machined to actually work > yet...) SignatureRemove all the x's to email. The only label that fits: http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_6966.shtml "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ---Teddy Roosevelt, 1918 1953 Starlight Coupe 1954 Starlight Coupe R1/4-speed 1958 Silver Hawk 1960 Frua Italia Larks (2 - they're here!) 1962 Lark VI 1962 Lark Convertible 1963 Avanti R2 R4324 1963 Lark Cruiser (R2 3/4 clone in progress) 1963 GT Hawk 1963 Daytona Wagonaire 1964 Cruiser (Survivor) 1956 2E7 2004 Porsche Carrera 4S 2000 Ducati 748 2002 Jeep Overland 2004 Ducati Monster 1000 http://homepage.mac.com/pdrnec/PhotoAlbum81.html I heard the same, but did he mention the over $1000 in machine shop labor involved ? > I spoke with T-Bow at South Bend - he told me he put a set of Stone's > early aluminum R3 heads on a customer's car and they worked great. > > Not an endorsement, I just figured the guy gets so much heat he deserves > a stroke when he does it right. SignatureJP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 64 Challenger (Plain Wrapper ?) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 63 GT Hawk OD. 61 Hawk 54 Starlight What does this mean: stones oil pump he made to tight will seaze up on you but when it all over I have a hard time making out what this statement is getting at. I have one of stones new oil pumps in my R4 Avanti. Should I be concerned? > What does this mean: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I have one of stones new oil pumps in my R4 Avanti. Should I be > concerned? Don't know anything about the oil pumps but his repro aluminum castings are notorious for needing work to fit right. Water manifolds, heads, intakes, etc. although several people have told me that the castings are getting better lately. I have one of his intakes that is going to need some work to fit right. nate the oil pump cold worked good when it got hot it expanded and would seize up and killed the engine but my friend did not have the distributor bolted down and it shot up we were lucky took out eng. and took the pump off and took .003 ? off the two propellers solved the oil pump they were made to tight on the specs I think stone fix that one . with the aluminum heads on the car the car is lucky to hit 160 it runs real cool just will not heat up I wonder why let run 1 hour at 95 out side still cold it is real funny blocked thermostat same thing will not over heat or heat up it is real funny in that way ps it is my friend peters 63 r2-3 and we buy our parts off dave and janet t bow good stude guy He did - involving making the aluminum water pump manifold and other things fit - but he said the heads were drop-in, unless I'm greatly mistaken. > I heard the same, but did he mention the over $1000 in machine shop > labor involved ? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> Not an endorsement, I just figured the guy gets so much heat he >> deserves a stroke when he does it right. SignatureRemove all the x's to email. The only label that fits: http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_6966.shtml "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ---Teddy Roosevelt, 1918 1953 Starlight Coupe 1954 Starlight Coupe R1/4-speed 1958 Silver Hawk 1960 Frua Italia Larks (2 - they're here!) 1962 Lark VI 1962 Lark Convertible 1963 Avanti R2 R4324 1963 Lark Cruiser (R2 3/4 clone in progress) 1963 GT Hawk 1963 Daytona Wagonaire 1964 Cruiser (Survivor) 1956 2E7 2004 Porsche Carrera 4S 2000 Ducati 748 2002 Jeep Overland 2004 Ducati Monster 1000 http://homepage.mac.com/pdrnec/PhotoAlbum81.html Could be more recent heads, the set he told about about last year took a lot of work. > He did - involving making the aluminum water pump manifold and other > things fit - but he said the heads were drop-in, unless I'm greatly [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >>> Not an endorsement, I just figured the guy gets so much heat he >>> deserves a stroke when he does it right. SignatureJP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 64 Challenger (Plain Wrapper ?) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 63 GT Hawk OD. 61 Hawk 54 Starlight You guys are such diplomats. I would just come out and say he is full of sh.t (:-) There is no way in hell he can get that kind of HP with what is described. No matter how he modifies the heads they still have siamese ports. The things like light weight pistons and special rods do little for horsepower gains. One clue here it the claim that it could be a 200+ MPH machine. I have heard the 200 MPH Avanti run and it would not idle below 3500 without fouling the plugs in a very short time. >A week or so ago my eBay auction for a complete NOS R-3 tach set-up closed >at my reserve of $1500 (much JP's surprise and mine too). My buyer's [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > For what it's worth. > Paul Johnson for all we know, this guy may be independently wealthy and had a set of custom heads made in aluminum that are nothing like the Studebaker design??? Anything is possible if you throw enough money at it :-) Lew > You guys are such diplomats. I would just come out and say he is full > of sh.t (:-) [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > MPH machine. I have heard the 200 MPH Avanti run and it would not idle > below 3500 without fouling the plugs in a very short time. -- Lew Schucart Avanti Magazine Yep, that's pretty much how I feel. I'd love this to be true but am pretty skeptical, I'd be interested in what some of the real experts, like Ted, think of this. If this is for real (and I hope it is!) I'd love to see some pictures and some race results, including some really embarrassed Corvette owners <G>. Jeff DeWitt > for all we know, this guy may be independently wealthy and had a set of > custom heads made in aluminum that are nothing like the Studebaker [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >> MPH machine. I have heard the 200 MPH Avanti run and it would not idle >> below 3500 without fouling the plugs in a very short time. It was done before on an Indy version of the Stude block. -- wf. > for all we know, this guy may be independently wealthy and had a set of > custom heads made in aluminum that are nothing like the Studebaker > design??? Anything is possible if you throw enough money at it :-) > > Lew I highly doubt that. He didn't mention it and it would be tremendously difficult. One of the strong points of the Studebaker engine it that it has one more head bolt per cylinder than other engines of it's day. That spacing would make it impossible to get two regular sized ports out between them. He would have to move the ports over and then move the spark plug holes to where the old port was. I'm sure he would have mentioned something as exotic as that. > for all we know, this guy may be independently wealthy and had a set of > custom heads made in aluminum that are nothing like the Studebaker [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Lew Schucart > Avanti Magazine |
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