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Car Forum / Antique and Collectibles / Studebaker / September 2005

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V8 waterpumps

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John Poulos - 03 Sep 2005 16:47 GMT
I was under the impression that there were only 3 basic pumps, the early
51 pump, the Avanti pump and the rest. I have seen a few of the common
52-64 pumps with a hub that stuck out too far for the clutch fan. Can
anyone give me a V8 pump 101 course ?
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JP/Maryland
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Studebaker George - 03 Sep 2005 17:55 GMT
The last time that happened to me the "rebuilder" had installed the hub
backwards.  I too would like a water pump 101 course as I have seen
several variations in the last few months.  Some have much bigger
bearings/housings.  Also, do the Avanti pumps interchange with the
"standard" V8 ones?  I always thought that there were only three
different ones.
Studebaker George
John Poulos - 03 Sep 2005 18:58 GMT
The Avanti pump has a bigger hub and won't fit the standard fan.

> The last time that happened to me the "rebuilder" had installed the hub
> backwards.  I too would like a water pump 101 course as I have seen
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> different ones.
> Studebaker George

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JP/Maryland
Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com
My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/
64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
62 Lark 2 door
61 Hawk
60? Hawk
53 Starlight

Paul Johnson - 03 Sep 2005 20:50 GMT
>I was under the impression that there were only 3 basic pumps, the early 51
>pump, the Avanti pump and the rest. I have seen a few of the common 52-64
>pumps with a hub that stuck out too far for the clutch fan. Can anyone give
>me a V8 pump 101 course ?
I only know of the three types you mentioned, but I have seen probably five
different part numbers for them.  I have several with a stock number that
isn't in my books, but they are the same as the late non-Avanti ones.
Studebaker probably changed the part numbers because of some minor change,
but the fit and function remained the same.
Paul Johnson
John Poulos - 03 Sep 2005 21:06 GMT
   The problem I'm having is the standard pump with the fan clutch. The
one I have is a late part number, but the snout that sticks through the
fan pulley is too long and bottoms out in the fan clutch hole. (It would
not matter without the clutch.) The used cores I have, have a shorter snout.

>>I was under the impression that there were only 3 basic pumps, the early 51
>>pump, the Avanti pump and the rest. I have seen a few of the common 52-64
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> but the fit and function remained the same.
> Paul Johnson

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JP/Maryland
Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com
My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/
64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
62 Lark 2 door
61 Hawk
60? Hawk
53 Starlight

Gordon Richmond - 03 Sep 2005 22:49 GMT
JP,

It could be that the rebuilder used a different bearing from the
original, one with a longer front extension on the shaft.

Just get a cutoff wheel on your die grinder, and cut it off at the
right length. The shaft is hardened steel, and a hacksaw won't, uh,
hack it.

Gord Richmond
John Poulos - 04 Sep 2005 00:28 GMT
  The shaft is fine, it's the hub center that stick out. It protrudes
about 3/8 inch beyond the shaft end.  I can cut it down, just trying to
figure out why it was made that way.  BTW, it is pressed on the shaft to
the right alignment.
> JP,
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Gord Richmond

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JP/Maryland
Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com
My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/
64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
62 Lark 2 door
61 Hawk
60? Hawk
53 Starlight

Jeff Rice - 04 Sep 2005 02:20 GMT
On the A/C kit equipped engine I just got there is a spacer that fits
between the one water pump pulley and the other pulley.
It would have been easy to ship the a/c compressor mount, but then the
clutch fan would not fit correctly.
Maybe you are missing this spacer?
Jeff

"John Poulos" wrote...
>   The shaft is fine, it's the hub center that stick out. It protrudes
> about 3/8 inch beyond the shaft end.  I can cut it down, just trying to
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>>
>> Gord Richmond
John Poulos - 04 Sep 2005 03:15 GMT
   I took a closer look, as suggested, the hub was pressed on backwards
during assembly.

> On the A/C kit equipped engine I just got there is a spacer that fits
> between the one water pump pulley and the other pulley.
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>>>
>>>Gord Richmond

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JP/Maryland
Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com
My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/
64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
62 Lark 2 door
61 Hawk
60? Hawk
53 Starlight

Studebaker George - 03 Sep 2005 22:51 GMT
I had been carrying an extra new pump in the tool box that I travel
with (along with a distributor ready to R&R complete with cap and a
fuel pump) and when a car just came in that needed a pump right away, I
grabbed it.  Can't remember where it came from but it had a bigger
bearing (and casting where the bearing is obviously) than all the other
old ones I had laying around and also a thicker flange.  Generally
looked much beefier all over and was brand new.  It went right on the
GT Hawk I was working on and works fine.  I was told recently that the
truck pumps were more heavy duty (CRS prevents me from remembering who
said that) and are a direct replacement; especially a good choice for
AC cars where the AC belt goes around the pump.  And John, once again
please look at the hub as the one I mentioned earlier was from a car
with a fan clutch.  Some buffoon had used flat washers in between the
fan clutch and the pulley in an effort to make it fit.  Could it be
that whomever pressed the flange on too far or backwards?  One side of
the flange is tapered and shorter.
Studebaker (still pump confused)George
John Poulos - 04 Sep 2005 00:29 GMT
Nope, both sides of the hub are too long around the shaft.

> I had been carrying an extra new pump in the tool box that I travel
> with (along with a distributor ready to R&R complete with cap and a
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> the flange is tapered and shorter.
> Studebaker (still pump confused)George

Signature

JP/Maryland
Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com
My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/
64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
62 Lark 2 door
61 Hawk
60? Hawk
53 Starlight

A.J. - 04 Sep 2005 01:21 GMT
> Nope, both sides of the hub are too long around the shaft.

There are 3 different pumps on Studebakers, V8 standard, Heavy duty, and
Avanti. The difference is on a standard pump you can see about 1/2" of
shaft between the pump housing and flange. On a heavy duty pump there is
almost no shaft showing and the boss for the bearing on the water pump is
larger and comes out to meet the flange. This pump is used on the air
conditioned models, now the Avanti pump is the same as the heavy duty, but
it has 3 gussets that come down from the main body of the pump to boss on
bearing housing and you should try to use nothing else on an Avanti but an
Avanti pump because of the weight of the water pump pully. Casting number
on the Avanti pump is 1560400. Casting number on the heavy duty type with
the long bearing boss is 527070. Casting number on the standard pump is
1554634.      

    AJ
John Poulos - 04 Sep 2005 01:28 GMT
   There is a 1951 pump too, I have that odd one laying around.

>>Nope, both sides of the hub are too long around the shaft.
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
>      AJ

Signature

JP/Maryland
Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com
My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/
64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
62 Lark 2 door
61 Hawk
60? Hawk
53 Starlight

Ron  Butts - 04 Sep 2005 00:32 GMT
The water pumps with the thicker flange and the larger bearing are the heavy
duty pumps that have been around at least 7 years.  I bought one from Ted
Harbit when I purchased my 59 Hawk in 98.
Ron

>I had been carrying an extra new pump in the tool box that I travel
> with (along with a distributor ready to R&R complete with cap and a
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> the flange is tapered and shorter.
> Studebaker (still pump confused)George
Robert Kapteyn - 04 Sep 2005 07:18 GMT
> The water pumps with the thicker flange and the larger bearing are the heavy
> duty pumps that have been around at least 7 years.  

Read service letter S-1048 dated July 10 , 1962.
If you do not have a copy of that,please email me.
There are a number of  reproduction V8 waterpumps around that are not
correct.
The impeller is to far away from the housing and the pumps do not pump
enough water around the block and radiator and the cars overheat.
The critical dimension to check is the tip of the impeller to the
mounting flange ,934-.938 ".
The drawing also shows the way the pulley hub should go on and how far
the front of the hub to the mounting flange is. (2  33/64 ".)
The original Stude gaskets were thin.
The gaskets supplied with the repro pumps are much thicker and move the
pump out to much and that increases the impeller to housing clearence
and reduces the pump capacity or volume.
R.Kapteyn studebaker@mac.com
 
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