Car Forum / Antique and Collectibles / Studebaker / September 2005
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John Poulos - 18 Sep 2005 18:16 GMT Lee e-mailed me about a GT Hawk with a more then fair Buy It Now on ebay. I'd missed it because the $100 starting bid placed it way now in my sort by price order. When I called, the seller has just talked to a guy that he'd spent a hour with on the phone going over every inch of the car. The guy told him he's think about it and watch the auction before he'd bid. He was hoping it would sell for less, I feared it would hit reserve and go higher, so I hit the BIN. Two different ways of looking at it. Maybe I paid too much by jumping, maybe he lost a decent deal. I'll do the brakes, floors, add carpets, hydovac, new front bumper and detail the car and see what happens. (I love buffing black paint)<g>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4576272823
 Signature JP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 62 Lark 2 door 61 Hawk 60? Hawk 53 Starlight
N8N - 18 Sep 2005 18:20 GMT > Lee e-mailed me about a GT Hawk with a more then fair Buy It Now on > ebay. I'd missed it because the $100 starting bid placed it way now in [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk > 62 Lark 2 door Looks like a factory 4bbl. If you can find a disc brake Hydrovac for it I think you probably did all right.
nate
> 61 Hawk > 60? Hawk > 53 Starlight John Poulos - 18 Sep 2005 18:24 GMT I bought a NOS disk brake unit with the car.
> Looks like a factory 4bbl. If you can find a disc brake Hydrovac for > it I think you probably did all right. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> 60? Hawk >> 53 Starlight
 Signature JP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 62 Lark 2 door 61 Hawk 60? Hawk 53 Starlight
GTtim - 19 Sep 2005 00:59 GMT I think you did just fine. Now all you have to do is get it home, that's always the rub isn't it? Looks like a real solid car with good interior and the right equipment. You definitely didn't pay too much. Tim K.
John Poulos - 19 Sep 2005 01:37 GMT Shipping on a runner from Jacksonville to me in Md, is around $500-$600, not that bad.
> I think you did just fine. Now all you have to do is get it home, > that's always the rub isn't it? Looks like a real solid car with good > interior and the right equipment. You definitely didn't pay too much. > Tim K.
 Signature JP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 62 Lark 2 door 61 Hawk 60? Hawk 53 Starlight
Jeff Grohs - 19 Sep 2005 04:31 GMT > I bought a NOS disk brake unit with the car. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >>> 60? Hawk >>> 53 Starlight speaking of which, the "disk brake" hydrovac I got a year or so ago wasn't, so I'm looking again for one.
Jeff
John Poulos - 19 Sep 2005 04:43 GMT I have 3 coming back from a rebuilder, maybe one is disk brake. BTW, the regular will work, just slightly more pedal pressure.
>> I bought a NOS disk brake unit with the car. >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Jeff
 Signature JP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 62 Lark 2 door 61 Hawk 60? Hawk 53 Starlight
oldcarfart - 19 Sep 2005 14:18 GMT John, call me about this car & seller.
64daytonaht - 19 Sep 2005 14:29 GMT This has all the makings of an ominous deal. <G>
Bo
> John, call me about this car & seller. Paul Johnson - 19 Sep 2005 01:43 GMT > Lee e-mailed me about a GT Hawk with a more then fair Buy It Now on ebay. > I'd missed it because the $100 starting bid placed it way now in my sort [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > He was hoping it would sell for less, I feared it would hit reserve and go > higher, so I hit the BIN. ... I wondered how you had missed it when I saw it this am. Looks like a super buy to me. Paul Johnson
John Poulos - 19 Sep 2005 01:49 GMT I learned a important lesson, never start with that low a starting bid. I sort by price so all the cars will show up first and he was buried in the parts with one $100 bid. You, Lee and others have saved my butt more then once when I overlooked a bargain.
>> Lee e-mailed me about a GT Hawk with a more then fair Buy It Now on ebay. >> I'd missed it because the $100 starting bid placed it way now in my sort [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > buy to me. > Paul Johnson
 Signature JP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 62 Lark 2 door 61 Hawk 60? Hawk 53 Starlight
Studebaker George - 19 Sep 2005 03:06 GMT John, that car was on ebay a few days ago with the same BIN. A friend here in town hit the button, but after talking with the guy and finding out all the things that were NOT mentioned in the FIRST ebay ad, my friend decided not to do the purchase. I don't know if the seller is anyone we all know, but his presentation and semi-truths about the car set off fire alarms. Seller admitted that he should have told more about the car's needs and that the hole in the floor was big enough to put your foot through. In the original ad he said some POR would fix the rust. He also stated that it drove just fine and needed only cosmetics. When we said we would come drive it back (less than 200 miles) he started telling the truths about it. I see he corrected his earlier ad and if he had been a little more truthful my friend would have bought it. The car is probably worth the money, but like I said, fire alarms went off for many reasons. I hope the car is a decent one. Studebaker George
John Poulos - 19 Sep 2005 04:36 GMT I was told about the floor rust, not supposed to be quite that bad, but no big deal if it is. He did buy a POR 15 floor kit that goes with the car and said the weak area is about 10 inches by 12 inches right in front of the master cylinder hole. He's not happy with the brakes, it needs new disk pads and the lack of a booster would make it less than fun to drive. (pads come with the car, and I bought a NOS booster) He says " The car does stop, but not as quick as it should, so I wouldn't plan on driving the car until the brake job is completed."I personally don't worry about mechanical issues as long as the exterior is rust free. His BIN was less then half average book, so it'll be hard to get hurt.
> John, that car was on ebay a few days ago with the same BIN. A friend > here in town hit the button, but after talking with the guy and finding [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > fire alarms went off for many reasons. I hope the car is a decent one. > Studebaker George
 Signature JP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 62 Lark 2 door 61 Hawk 60? Hawk 53 Starlight
Studebaker George - 19 Sep 2005 15:16 GMT Sounds like you are justifying the price to yourself.. And your comment about the EXTERIOR being rust free...what about the IMPORTANT stuff, like the FLOORS and TRUNK? I know, people buy according to what they see on the outside, but the guy's attitude and description (at least to my buddy) sounded like he was not being totally truthful and actually trying to scare him away. This same friend bought and still owns a 63 GT that people stayed away from because it showed some rust on the front fenders. The rest of the car has NO rust. There were other things about the car that kept the deal from finishing, and when we calculated what the car needed without even looking at it, my friend said phoey on it. For someone doing the work themselves, it could be a decent deal, but if the work had to be done by a shop the car would be too much. I figured at LEAST a thousand for the brakes (remember that the car sat for several years) and most likely more. You could patch them for a lot less, but you will have just that, a patch job. That brings the price to fifty eight and then add shipping. Misc. items tilt it to seven and then you have the other issues to deal with from a car that sat for years and has a spotty history. For someone who is not mechanically inclined, that car is definately NOT a good deal and deserves a "pass". I could have told my friend to buy it and then made a bunch of $$ fixing it for him, but I would rather be brutally honest and have a happy customer and friend. I hope the car works out for you and I know we will get a report of what it looks like in person which will be interesting to hear. Studebaker George
64daytonaht - 19 Sep 2005 16:27 GMT George,
Send all those brake customers to me! I'll do basic brake jobs on Studebakers all day long for $1,000.00. Dam it! I've been charging $600.00, or less! <G>
Bo
John Poulos - 19 Sep 2005 16:59 GMT Doing disk brakes myself, it's
$150 for new rear wheel cylinders (Disks are more then double the money) $45 Master Cylinder New hoses $75 Caliper kits $50 pads
Total $340
> George, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Bo
 Signature JP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 62 Lark 2 door 61 Hawk 60? Hawk 53 Starlight
Studebaker George - 20 Sep 2005 01:33 GMT Problem is that there is no such thing anymore as a "basic" brake job on these cars. The one in question will most likely need wheel cylinders, disc hydraulic stuff, hoses, steel lines, etc. While you are there, what about bearings front and rear? At the least, they will need repacking and new seals. Then, you might as well do some other odds and ends...and that car needs a booster, too. Do the math, factor in labor, and you have shot past a thou unless you work for almost nothing. I have spent almost my entire adult life as a professional wrench, and I'll be darned if I am going to work for next to nothing. FORTY FIVE an hour take it or leave it is what I now tell everyone, and that is cheap! If I have to spend an extra hour on a rusty or stripped part, the customer sucks it up, not me. I spend most of my time straightening out DIY and "professional" mechanics work, and THAT is extra also. The car in question most likely needs a thou worth of brake work if it was taken to any reputable shop. I have a car here right now that supposedly had a thou of brake work done and the old master cylinder and lines are still on it. I also have another car in the shop where a "well known pro with a good reputation" did some work on it and sent it out the door with a water pump raising hell...said it was good to go on a hundred mile trip.. Studebaker George
Jeff Rice - 20 Sep 2005 02:08 GMT You didn't mention the 'lost time' in your shop do to bozo's showing up unannounced and taking up your valuable time just bs'ing and wandering around. Jeff (Who would do something like that? <g>) Rice
"Studebaker George" wrote...
> Problem is that there is no such thing anymore as a "basic" brake job > on these cars. The one in question will most likely need wheel [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > was good to go on a hundred mile trip.. > Studebaker George Studebaker George - 20 Sep 2005 02:23 GMT At least you didn't want me to spend several hours explaining how to fix something and then ask if you could use a lift for a few days....and some tools...and maybe the key to the shop.. Studebaker George
Jeff Rice - 20 Sep 2005 02:27 GMT Hmmmm.. I can do all that, too? Jeff ( Do you have any beer?...) Rice
"Studebaker George" wrote...
> At least you didn't want me to spend several hours explaining how to > fix something and then ask if you could use a lift for a few > days....and some tools...and maybe the key to the shop.. > Studebaker George Studebaker George - 20 Sep 2005 02:44 GMT I don't have a fridge at the shop but I have several coolers...bring me a couple Metropolitan Torpedoes and you can use everything....BTW, did you see the press? I got one from MSC at a GREAT price! Studebaker George
Jeff Rice - 20 Sep 2005 03:03 GMT Metropolitan Torpedoes ??? Jeff ( I didn't know she was in town! ) Rice
"Studebaker George" wrote...
>I don't have a fridge at the shop but I have several coolers...bring me > a couple Metropolitan Torpedoes and you can use everything....BTW, did > you see the press? I got one from MSC at a GREAT price! > Studebaker George John Poulos - 20 Sep 2005 03:23 GMT Sounds like we basically just see the market differently. I expect to put some time and money in a 5K GT Hawk. It will be here next week and I'll get started.
> Problem is that there is no such thing anymore as a "basic" brake job > on these cars. The one in question will most likely need wheel [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > was good to go on a hundred mile trip.. > Studebaker George
 Signature JP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 62 Lark 2 door 61 Hawk 60? Hawk 53 Starlight
64daytonaht - 20 Sep 2005 05:01 GMT George,
I could make a grand on a brake job, too. If I wanted to make work and sell people extra parts and service they don't necessarily need. New seals good idea, new bearings, new lines why? I never assume something is bad until I prove it is. Upgrade to dual M/C add $150.00 for cyl. and extra plumbing required. If someone wants an axle job, that's a different story all together. Why sell people stuff they don't really need? Certainly, you check the lines throughly for penetrating rust/corrosion and you flush/presure check the system. If you put 300 psi into the line and it holds, I'd say there's a pretty good chance it ain't broke! If it ain't broke why fix it? If your going to restore something and your a worry wort, then by all means replace every thing on the car. It's all at least 40 years old. Hell, just replace drums, hubs, spindles, Jesus nuts, bolts, washers, carter keys (this one I do replace), springs, waffers, cams, adjusters. The brake job of the future $4,000.00! And that doesn't include washing the white walls!
Deluxe brake job:
4 New wheel cyl. $112.00 1 Rebuilt booster $100.00 1 New master cyl. $ 65.00 3 New Flex hoses $ 60.00 4 Drums turned $ 50.00 1 Brake line kit $ 50.00 8 hrs. lbr @ $40.00 $320.00 ----------- $757.00 Tax 8.25% $ 62.45 ------------ $819.45
Pain/suffering fee $300.00 ------------ $1,119.45
Std brake job:
4 New wheel cyl. $112.00 1 New Master cyl. $ 65.00 3 New flex hoses $ 60.00 4 Drums turmed $ 50.00 4 hrs. lbr @ $40.00 $160.00 ------------ $447.00 Tax 8.25% $ 36.88 ----------- $483.88
Pain/suffering fee $300.00 ------------ $783.88
Axle bearing/seal job:
Front seals pr. $14.00 R&R seal .4 hr $16.00 R&R-Pk brgs .6 hr. $24.00 Rear seals (inner) 2 $25.00 R&R seal .4 hr $16.00 R&R-Pk brgs .6 hr. $24.00 Outer seals $33.60 R&R axles 1hr. $40.00 ----------- $192.60 Tax 8.25% $ 15.89 ------------ $208.49 Pain/suffering fee $300.00 ------------- $508.49
Yep! If I add that ole pain/suffering fee into all my work I think I'll have enough to retire on, again, in a couple of years. All right! All you Studebaker owners step up and take it like a man! It don't get no cheaper then this! <G>
Bo
John Poulos - 20 Sep 2005 05:19 GMT I've got a production line going. If I'm in a hurry I replace all the wheel cylinders and the master cylinder and toss the cores in a box. In between cars, I pick out the good cores, toss them in the deruster, hone and kit them. That means the next brake job could cost well under $150 with just kits and hoses. I finally found a source for rebuilt hydovacs, so I keep them in stock, along with a bunch of new steel brake line.
With all the GT Hawks I've done or parted out, I seldom buy many parts and that makes it easier and cheaper to prep a new one. If I'm doing a show car, I'll pull and save "nice" but not perfect trim or parts for later use on a driver.
> George, > [quoted text clipped - 75 lines] > > Bo
 Signature JP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 62 Lark 2 door 61 Hawk 60? Hawk 53 Starlight
64daytonaht - 20 Sep 2005 12:53 GMT Absolutely agree. I never throw anything away that is usable, and I all ways give the customer the choice between rebuilt and new. My point here is that a brake job need not cost an arm and both legs. Seldom have I ever had to go to such extremes to ensure the job was done right, or to make a little money. I've only seen a few instances where every single component on the vehicle. Besides that, I usually don't charge any extra labor for packing the bearings and only charge for the seals.
I just don't believe you have to over charge someone for service, or additional parts they don't necessarily need.
Bo
64daytonaht - 20 Sep 2005 12:39 GMT Ooooops! I knew I forgot something. Add another $65.00 for 4 new brake shoes.
Bo
> George, > [quoted text clipped - 75 lines] > > Bo Studebaker George - 20 Sep 2005 12:55 GMT Ok Bo, you asked for it so here it goes...YOUR brake abilities are well known on this newsgroup; have you forgotten that you and JP went at it because of YOUR inept handling of brakes on your own car? Yeah, I really want YOU fixing brakes. Maybe you had better go back to school or start bringing your cars to someone better qualified... AND, I was giving an estimate without seeing the car. I don't replace parts just for the hell of it. Estimate high and hope for the best. Less surprises that way. Your parts prices don't jive, either. EVERY GOOD SHOP marks up the parts even if it is just a little, it pays for things like utilities, property taxes, time involved ordering/chasing, etc. You obviously have never been in the "biz"...and maybe you don't belong there. All through this thread I was looking at it from a professional shop/mechanic standpoint, not a DIY point. Sure people can save money by being a DIYer, but a lot of people just want it fixed and fixed RIGHT. AND THAT COSTS MONEY! Studebaker George
Jeff Rice - 20 Sep 2005 13:24 GMT Interesting thread. I find it amazing to see the liabilities that a vendor exposes himself to when working on the number one safety component on a vehicle. All it takes is one incident and one litigious person. I have seen lawsuits filed and won because of work orders saying, or not saying a couple of words, and that's just the paperwork. Imagine what a lawyer would do to someone in a courtroom when they ask "How did you rebuild that part?", and the reply was, "I soaked it in a garbage can in my driveway". Could be an expensive day. I am not passing judgement here, just pointing out potential trouble.
Jeff (and Usenet post's hang around for a long, long time....) Rice
John Poulos - 20 Sep 2005 15:05 GMT Jeff, if we had to worry about being sued over every post we made, we'd never give ANY advice. <g> We've helped each other with so many tips that could potentially kill you that I could never keep track. Repairing gas tanks, using torches, installing springs and such have all been addressed and we may have left out a OSHA rule or two. <g>
> Interesting thread. > I find it amazing to see the liabilities that a vendor exposes himself to [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Jeff (and Usenet post's hang around for a long, long time....) Rice
 Signature JP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 62 Lark 2 door 61 Hawk 60? Hawk 53 Starlight
Jeff Rice - 20 Sep 2005 15:26 GMT Hey, I was just covering MY a.s when the lawsuits start flying <lol>... Jeff ( You'ze perfeshunulz are off on your own! <gg>...) Rice
"John Poulos" wrote...
> Jeff, if we had to worry about being sued over every post we made, we'd > never give ANY advice. <g> We've helped each other with so many tips that [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >> >> Jeff (and Usenet post's hang around for a long, long time....) Rice 64daytonaht - 20 Sep 2005 14:23 GMT Not to dissappoint you George, but your information is as piss poor as your PROFESSIONAL over estimate to do a brake job!
Not to get a line of BS going, or to get JP up on his ear about something we've gotten past, but the little thing between he and I had nothing to do with MY HANDLING of a brake job.
My parts prices jive a whole lot better then yours do! My prices include a mark up! I usually buy in quantities of 50, or more. Let's see, if I buy 50 brake cylinders at $14.00 ea. and I pay $50.00 to have them shipped in, that means I have to add about a $1.00 to each cylinder to cover the cost of shipping. Cost is now $15.00 per cylinder. It takes me 10 minutes (shop light on) to go through the box and put the cylinders on the shelf, add $3.00 per cylinder (shop fee). Cost is now $18.00 ea. A wheel cylinder for $18.00 and mark it up 40% that would make my retail price $25.20 per cylinder. OK, I screw myself out of $.20 per cylinder. Darn and I was hoping to buy an Ice Cream with that money!
Since I buy wholesale and sell at retail that's about right. What's your problem with this? I make $7.20 per cylinder, I don't screw anybody and I still make a decent profit. I pay my bills and property taxes. I keep stuff on the shelf, so I don't have to do any chasing! My 1500 sq. ft. shop, my 4,000 sq. ft. house and my cars are all paid for. My children have their college fund and my wife has her masters in Medical Services Administration. We're about to move to Florida where I'm having (3) three 1,500 sq. ft. shops built, an inclosed pole barn along with a subterainean level house built. I don't owe anybody anything, and still manage to do this without screwing people!
My family has been in the Biz since 1939 and I've been working on these things since the mid 70's. I have a steady stream of customers, wanting both service and parts.
I'm sorry, maybe you have high shop overhead, or keep a high maintenance woman, or two! I don't know and that's your problem! It seems to me that as a good businessman you'd figure out what's COSTING YOU SO MUCH MONEY AND FIX YOUR PROBLEM! People want things fixed and they want them fixed right, but are NOT inclined to PAY SUBSTANTIAL LIFE TIME PAYMENTS TO YOUR CARIBBEAN RETIREMENT FUND!
Excuse me, but I have to get into the shop and start packaging some of my high priced parts for shipment. Later, I have a brake job to start. Hmmmmmmmm! Maybe I should call him back and tell him to sell his first born to cover my Vera Cruz vacation this year!
Bo
Jeff Rice - 20 Sep 2005 14:44 GMT I'd take the Caribbean over Vera Cruz, Texas any ol' time <lol>... Jeff ( I buy all my parts from reputable junkyards and shady people.sheesh....) Rice
"64daytonaht" wrotet... <snip> I don't know and that's your problem! It seems to me that
> as a good businessman you'd figure out what's COSTING YOU SO MUCH MONEY > AND FIX YOUR PROBLEM! People want things fixed and they want them fixed [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > born to cover my Vera Cruz vacation this year! > Bo Studebaker George - 20 Sep 2005 14:48 GMT Well, I guess I have job security now fixing all the brake jobs you do in and around our wondeful state. What's the matter, you get run out of wherever you are? Why the hell else would you be coming to OUR state? Bo, you are a wise a.s and Florida doesn't need or want you. Stay where ever you are. And IIRC, you were the buffoon who didn't notice that you were driving a car with only a couple of brakes working. Real fine diagnostics, there dude! How many years you been fixin' cars? Your tirades that followed indicated you were having some kind of substance abuse trouble... maybe that's why you didn't notice the car not stopping right.. Sounds like you are the one sucking people in with promises of low bills, too...I tell the TRUTH, that this is not a cheap hobby and time is money. Studebaker George
John Poulos - 20 Sep 2005 15:18 GMT OK, this thread went to hell in a hand cart. It started as a friendly 'heads up' to me about a car I was buying and turned into "Vendor Wars" I think I'll take some of my evil vendor money and head to Atlantic City for a day, I trust when I get back, it'll be back to normal. (Whatever that is <g>)
> Well, I guess I have job security now fixing all the brake jobs you do > in and around our wondeful state. What's the matter, you get run out [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > a cheap hobby and time is money. > Studebaker George
 Signature JP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 62 Lark 2 door 61 Hawk 60? Hawk 53 Starlight
64daytonaht - 20 Sep 2005 15:46 GMT George,
Again, your information is piss poor!
I was born and raised in Florida on a little ole 600 acre farm/ranch west of Ocala. After being blown the hell up and burned alive in the defense of people like you, I'm going home to live out what few days I have left in peace. No drugs, only a beer once in a while.
I'll not be working on anybody's vehicles, so you needn't fear that I'll take all your high priced business away.
I may be a wise a.s, but I tell people the way it is. There is no reason a brake job should cost a grand, or more. No reason except simple greed!
I've never meant you George, but there is one thing I can tell, your in a league all by yourself. Even ole DD couldn't hold a stick to your knowledge and experience. Yes sir, a legend in his own mind!
BTW, I packaged the 1st half dozen orders all ready and am taking a little break to engage in pointless banter. Back to work now.
Bo
Dave Lester - 20 Sep 2005 16:01 GMT George, please give it a rest, or take it to email.
John and Bo have worked out their differences, why stir it up again?
John doesn't need it, Bo doesn't need it, and the rest of us sure don't need it.
If you need it, please take it elsewhere.
 Signature Dave Lester www.davesplaceinc.com The Studebaker Hang Out Casbah of 'Sheba the Tramp, and Goliath the Hateful Truck
Studebaker George - 21 Sep 2005 00:01 GMT OK, I have a few things to say and I will quit this thread. First, I apologize to Bo for some of the things I said; I wish I could have said some things differently or not at all, but it is too easy to get riled up and type out stuff without really thinking. I do NOT like nor do I deserve the insinuation that I am either greedy or dishonest, and I do not apologize for getting pissed. I have spent my whole life as a professional wrench and I get mad at people who automatically call all techs crooks or thieves. All my life I have heard us called that and it just burns me up. Yes, there are plenty of bad ones out there but there are plenty of good ones. As one who has spent a lot of time in the "trenches" as a line mechanic, I know all to well that for years we didn't get paid anywhere near what we deserve, and the flat rate system encourages crummy work and shortcuts. And as far as what I charge, I am way more than fair with both my customers and myself. Anyone who knows me knows that I do not by any means have an extravagant lifestyle. Everything I have is paid for but my house is only worth about a hundred grand and the newest vehicle I own is a 94. I never got rich in this business and never will. I have, however, been around long enough to know that cheap prices and freebees don't pay bills or put food on the table. If I pack bearings, I get paid for it, period. I give very high estimates right off the top not to be a crook, but to make sure the customer knows there is a possibility that the repair could go that high; a "worst case" scenario. The brakes on that car could have easily gone past a thou if it needs everything. Bo, it's obvious that you have a temper that is about the same as mine, so once again I apologize for my vicious outburst and hope that you can be a man also and apologize for yours. Studebaker George
Dave Lester - 21 Sep 2005 02:49 GMT Thank you, George.
 Signature Dave Lester Home of the Internationally Renowned 'Sheba and Goliath See pictures at www.davesplaceinc.com
64daytonaht - 21 Sep 2005 05:19 GMT George,
The old man lived by a very simple Studebakerism, "Give more then you promise". All my life, be it on the farm/ranch, in the Military, or working on Studebakers, this has been drilled into me. I do not apologize for trying my damnest to live up to his standard. He was a great old man, very wise and very keen. He had to be, to still be selling parts and servicing Studebaker's well into his twilight years and until the day he passed in 1987.
I do not apologize for speaking the obvious and demonstrating, in fact, what is another's point of view. It just burns me up when someone tries to sell a bill of goods as the true and only Gospel. Yours is not the only way, price, etc. Yours is not the only point of view.
In the first place, I never called, nor insinuated that, you were a crook, or a thief. I stated a simple fact, how much a brake job cost to do. Backed up this statement with figures derived from my ability to buy and sell parts and provide good service at an apparently cheaper rate then you can. I DO NOT appologize for that! It is in fact a true picture, based on what I can do.
I do apologize for losing my temper and making some wise a.s cracks towards you, after your determined effort to side track the issue by trying to rile JP and myself up over something that has passed between two old friends and is done and over with, and your odd outburst concerning my being a baffoon with some kind of substance abuse trouble who sucks people in with promises of low bills. I made no such remarks towards you and JP and I have agreed that the whole incident between us was an unfortunate mistake and that neither one of us should have done, or said the things we said to and about each other. Life is much to short to hate one another, much less to hate one another because of a car.
I've never met you, but you seem to be determined that yours is the only point of view, only method, only price out there. Your attitude, that everyone else doesn't know what the hell they're doing and should follow along with you, without question, bothers me. I do not apologize for questioning you, sir! Nor, should anyone else. Sir, I march to the beat of my own drum. It may be out of sync with most everyone else, I don't know? But, I do a good job and I work very hard at doing so at a very fair and reasonable price. I sell parts at a very fair and reasonable price (when I can). I've never claimed to be the smartest person out there, the best mechanic, or that the cars I build are show cars. But, I've all ways done my best for a customer and have stood behind work that I, myself have done, and some that others have screwed up. I've taken the hits over the years for this and believe me, it has cost me dearly at times. However, If I can save someone a few dollars and make a decent living doing it, I will. If I were continuing in the wrench end of the business for the public, I'd still do business the way the old man did, or I'd die trying. And, I make no apologies for this, either!
So, you've apologized to me and now I've apologized to you, and we've tried to explain to each other, our different points of view. Great! Perhaps, we'll have a better understanding and appreciation for each other. Now that that's done, let's move on.
Bo
Michael - Roseland FL - 21 Sep 2005 08:11 GMT Just for reference here:
Successful automotive repair facilities mark up parts they install in customers cars times .67 or 67% of cost and of course then add labor. If a shop is to survive and cover salary and overhead this is vital.
64daytonaht - 21 Sep 2005 13:30 GMT Nope, not the final word, either. You can't just make a blanket statement such as this, especially when it's not correct. The one's you have knowledge of in your area may, but not all successful shops across the country follow your rule.
Bo
Grumpy AuContraire - 21 Sep 2005 13:52 GMT > Nope, not the final word, either. You can't just make a blanket statement > such as this, especially when it's not correct. The one's you have > knowledge of in your area may, but not all successful shops across the > country follow your rule. > > Bo 50% markup seems to be the rule here in Austin..
JT
Studebaker George - 21 Sep 2005 15:09 GMT I have been taught from the very beginning at age 16 that the markup should cover (but it doesn't anymore) the overhead. Fifty per cent was always normal and many did seventy five. The dealers do seventy five. One of my best and oldest friends (we have known each other since childhood) is the GM at a large Mercedes dealer; many of you who attended last years Florida state meet met him and his wife. He says seventy five per cent is too low for today's world. Many of us old farts are still trying to live in the past. It is almost 2006 and my property taxes for my shop just doubled. If I am to stick around, my prices have to reflect those facts. I have had my hands on the pulse of the plight of the independant auto shop for years and it is no secret that the independants are dissappearing. One of the reasons is that many of them refuse to se the handwriting on the wall and step on up as far as pricing goes. There will alwasy be Joe in the backyard who works for a couple beers, but that won't be me and chances are it WILL be me going behind Joe and making his mess right. No I'm not god, but I AM a professional and deserved to be paid like one, period. An arrogant attitude? Maybe, but praise doesn't pay bills and I prefer my praise to be in cash. I also don't mind if people bring me their own parts and I make NO markup; most of my customers have open accounts with vendors and let me call and charge the parts to their accounts. If they don't want to bother with either, then I look up or chase the parts and mark the stuff up. I treat my customers cars like they are my "children" and it pleases me when my "kids" go out and have a good time without having any problems. If I charge more than some, so be it, if you don't like it, then go somewhere else. Studebaker George
Jeff Rice - 21 Sep 2005 15:31 GMT Hey! Mask off the thread when you start spray painting like this! Easy about the backyard stuff..... I know several that do amazing things in their backyards and do it better than some 'pro's... Beer being used as a social lubricant sometimes can help the tense Studebaker tightwad syndrome. Beer being used as money is just wrong....but some people can be bought off. <lol?> Jeff (Always lock down the exchange rate beforehand....) Rice
"Studebaker George" wrote...
>I have been taught from the very beginning at age 16 that the markup > should cover (but it doesn't anymore) the overhead. Fifty per cent was [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > if you don't like it, then go somewhere else. > Studebaker George Studebaker George - 21 Sep 2005 16:30 GMT Yeah, alcohol can seal many a deal or ruin one and I once saw my cousin paint a car for a case of Budweiser. He just shot it, though, in HIS booth; the prep was all done. Now that I think back about that, my cousin did some of his FINEST paint jobs when he had consumed at least a six pack...and he is a little guy... Studebaker George
oldcarfart - 21 Sep 2005 15:10 GMT Bo, when and where you moving to the sunshine state?
64daytonaht - 22 Sep 2005 01:59 GMT Calvin,
It's in the works now. I had hoped to have all the paper work, permits and the like done, but it is hard doing that stuff long distance.
The storage company in Ocala was supposed to have picked up the conex containers I bought and delivered them, but the hurricane has sent everyone running for the Georgia line. I've got the first load (6 1/2 tons) of parts ready to go.
It's going to take a while to get my real estate and rental businesses sold, all though I sold 3 four plexs in 9 days, last week.
I'm hoping to have everything completed there by late next year and moved around Christmas, or the first of the year 2007.
My family lives about 30 miles West of Ocala near a little town named Morriston.
I just want to go home, raise cattle and work on my Studebakers.
No fuss, no muss.
Thanks for inquiring, Bo
John Poulos - 19 Sep 2005 17:12 GMT I'm just going on past experience on similar cars. I was the only bidder on the white GT a few weeks back at 5K. I put $1500 and a weeks labor in that car and it sold for a nice profit. $1000 for the brakes is way out of line. If you can't do your own work, anything but a turn key car is going to be a bad deal.
> Sounds like you are justifying the price to yourself.. And your comment > about the EXTERIOR being rust free...what about the IMPORTANT stuff, [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > will be interesting to hear. > Studebaker George
 Signature JP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 62 Lark 2 door 61 Hawk 60? Hawk 53 Starlight
64daytonaht - 19 Sep 2005 17:19 GMT Aren't you glad we can do the work ourselves!
> I'm just going on past experience on similar cars. I was the only bidder > on the white GT a few weeks back at 5K. I put $1500 and a weeks labor in [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >> and I know we will get a report of what it looks like in person which >> will be interesting to hear. Studebaker George Paul Johnson - 19 Sep 2005 17:45 GMT > I'm just going on past experience on similar cars. I was the only bidder > on the white GT a few weeks back at 5K. I put $1500 and a weeks labor in [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> about the EXTERIOR being rust free...what about the IMPORTANT stuff, >> like the FLOORS and TRUNK? ... Unless the seller flat out lied he described the fenders, trunk, etc as solid. It claimed to be a California car (and floorboard rust does happen to California cars). It still looks like a deal to me. I sort of had the same luck as John described with a '64 GT five years ago. I bought it on eBay for $1200- no pix, poor description, three-day auction. It turned out to be a car being sold by the son of the original owner, was a four-speed, disk brake, vinyl top. Was left at a body shop by dad who then died and the car was left sitting outside for a year or so then was returned to the garage where it had been parked all its life and was left for another eight years without running. It looked a little shabby- was to have had two new fenders installed and then was to be painted, but the interior was extremely nice (red w/white exterior), the floors had been professionally repaired, already had two new fenders installed. It came with about a six-inch high pile of invoices from all the work done on it over the years (fastidiously maintained). I put Marvel oil in the cylinders, checked the fuel system and found it dry and clean. The next day I poured a little gas in the carb and it fired right up. I put gas in the tank and it ran beautifully with good oil pressure, no smoking OR leaking. Brakes worked ok so I did nothing more than clean it up, doubled my money on eBay and still have the two new fenders. How did JP miss that? <G> He was at Atlantic City for the weekend. Paul Johnson
John Poulos - 19 Sep 2005 18:59 GMT Time will tell, but my gut tells me I'll do fine. The car came from Ca. on a lien sale last year. It was dropped off at a trim shop to get the new headliner and vinyl roof installed and the owner never came back.
>> I'm just going on past experience on similar cars. I was the only bidder >> on the white GT a few weeks back at 5K. I put $1500 and a weeks labor in [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > How did JP miss that? <G> He was at Atlantic City for the weekend. > Paul Johnson
 Signature JP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 62 Lark 2 door 61 Hawk 60? Hawk 53 Starlight
markansas859 - 19 Sep 2005 02:53 GMT yeah, thats the way it works.
this lady listed her sons car last week, I had mine for sale, no cash in hand. auction ended below reserve
she sends me a second chance offer for $750
I was scouting out some other cars that didn't pan out closer to me
she relisted the car..
I e-mail her at 2 AM sunday morning, and ask if I can come 155 miles and look at it.... since I now had CASH in hand
she e-mails me back at 2:30 AM, sure come ahead. but there is a lady coming at 1 PM to look at it......
leave here 8 AM..... by 12:30, I was on I-30, headed back east.. got home at 5 PM tonight
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4576295570
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