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Car Forum / Antique and Collectibles / Studebaker / September 2005

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Buying your first Studebaker

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midlant@earthlink.net - 22 Sep 2005 06:05 GMT
We have nothing like this on the SDC website, so, after contacting the
webmaster, I have come up with this.
I recognize that it still needs smoothing.

I seek comments, good or bad.

Karl Haas

                    BEFORE YOU SPRING FOR CAN OLD CAR

There are many reasons why having an old car might appeal to people,
from just having an interesting "Daily Driver" up to aiming for the
top prize at Hershey.  Old car ownership has made good family projects.
Old cars are used as attention-grabbers for business. (If you're
thinking of this one, take into account who will be driving it - do
you really want a minimum-wage kid behind the wheel?)
Others may see one as just an interesting weekend vehicle that can also
fill in as a spare car. Some seek an occasional return to their youth
by having a car from that era.
Many see this as a productive, and perhaps profitable, way to learn and
practice car repair skills, even if they are paying themselves pennies
per hour.
Many enjoy using an old car for wedding rentals.

Many, avoid the standard old car and get one to modify as rod or
custom.

Whatever your aim, there are things you should take into account, based
largely on your goal and what assets you have.

Job #1: PAINT THIS ON YOUR GARAGE WALL:
"You will spend more than you plan to spend."
"The lower the price of the car, the more it will cost in the end"

Basically,
Unless you are willing to go through a series of cars, losing money on
most of them, the best plan is to thoroughly study those cars which
interest you and get the best one of them you can afford.

What should you have in your "tool kit?"

Sufficient inside workspace and storage space
Time and patience
Good skill levels where needed, or the ability to learn
Required tools, supplies and equipment or the cash to buy them as
needed.
Enough strength and co-ordination to do the work

If these are lacking, plan on substituting barrels full of money.

(Personal note, I started out lacking all of the above, including the
money, yet I've had a great for forty years in the hobby.)

What Studebaker to buy - Let's take a look at selecting a Studebaker.

First off, join the Studebaker Drivers Club and the local Chapter. This
is likely to be the best investment in your car hobby that you will
make.

In the library or auto museum, if there is one handy, look for books
that describe various old cars. One I often use in my volunteer work in
an auto museum library is Standard Catalog of American Cars. This comes
in at least two volumes: up to WWII and 1946 - 1975. There may be one
for later years, but that is of no interest to me!
These are Krause Publications books and SDC members wrote the
Studebaker sections.

Old Cars Price Guide, a monthly magazine, gives you a guide to price
range of selected marques. Selected, in that they do not list prices of
Studebaker six cylinder cars after 1960. That's in the example I have
at hand. Understandably, they also don't list cars in the lower
grades, such as "Restorable" and "parts cars."

Once you have found several year/model Studebakers that interest you,
ask your fellow chapter members to look at their Turning Wheel Index
for issues featuring the cars of interest to you. Next, buy or borrow
the magazines, and read more about the cars. Also check with chapter
members to see who actually have live cars like those you want so you
can look at them closely.
As Mister Packard used to say, "Ask the man who owns one."

Places to see a great variety of Studebaker will be at larger meets.
Each Zone has at least one Zone Meet a year in addition to numerous
Chapter meets within that zone.
There is also the International Meet, where you may see several hundred
Studebakers.
A large meet which fits into neither of these categories is the La
Palma meet held in the spring near Los Angeles. There are several other
such gatherings - read Turning Wheels for details.

By talking with car owners at the various meets and on other occasions,
you will find out in greater detail what it's like to live with these
cars, in general or regarding specific cars. You'll also pick up the
finer points to consider. One example is the choice between the
perceived greater beauty of a K (Hardtop) Lowey / Burke "Coupe" as
opposed to the quieter and theoretically safer pillared C model.

If the kind owner will let you, slide behind the wheel and try it for
fit. If you weigh 250 pounds and have a gimpy left leg, you might find
that the dream Avanti could become a nightmare!

Another valuable point to pick up through chatter is who might be the
best venders to buy from, as far as price and quality, and who might be
the best to avoid. For example, reproduction trim, like nameplates, may
be a bit shorter between mounting pegs due to shrinkage, whereas other
vendors may have moved a mold pin slightly to compensate for this
problem.
This can be significant during a 2AM assembly on the day of the
judging!

Karl Haas
John Poulos - 22 Sep 2005 06:44 GMT
Might add some Studebaker specific stuff to look for:

http://stude.com/buy.htm

> We have nothing like this on the SDC website, so, after contacting the
> webmaster, I have come up with this.
[quoted text clipped - 107 lines]
>
> Karl Haas

Signature

JP/Maryland
Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com
My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/
64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
62 Lark 2 door
61 Hawk
60? Hawk
53 Starlight

midlant@earthlink.net - 23 Sep 2005 00:16 GMT
John, I am trying yo convince the reader of the value of Chapter
contact, and will want them to wnat6 to seek them out.
Perhaps I misunderstood you - please offer examples of
Studebaker-specific stuff.

Karl
John Poulos - 23 Sep 2005 00:29 GMT
   T thought the hints of what to look for on Studebakers might be
helpful. i.e. typical rust area's and the like.

> John, I am trying yo convince the reader of the value of Chapter
> contact, and will want them to wnat6 to seek them out.
> Perhaps I misunderstood you - please offer examples of
> Studebaker-specific stuff.
>
> Karl

Signature

JP/Maryland
Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com
My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/
64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
62 Lark 2 door
61 Hawk
60? Hawk
53 Starlight

Jeff Rice - 23 Sep 2005 00:36 GMT
http://vintagecars.about.com/od/buyingselling/ht/buy_caution.htm

How To Know Whether a Vintage Car is Right for You

A vintage or classic car can bring you great joy, but it may also be
painfully expensive. The truth is, vintage car ownership can sometimes be an
illusion because not everyone is suited to the hobby, financially or
otherwise. The good news is that by using these tips and proceeding with
caution you could soon be at the wheel of the car of your dreams. Some of
which may be as old as the car you're about to buy.
Difficulty: Average

Time Required: A week of cautious thinking

Here's How:
1.   Ask yourself if you can really afford a vintage or classic, remembering
that if something breaks it could end up costing a small fortune in repairs.
This is especially true of rare or exotic vehicles. Parts may be hard to
find, thus the car could be out of service for a lengthy period. Can you
handle repairs on your own? Got the talent and experience for restoration?
Great... but if not, be prepared to dig deep.

2.   Always have a "reserve" set aside for unexpected repair costs. A friend
who restores and sells collector cars suggests a minimum of at least $3000.
More if the car is a rare exotic. But then, if you're buying a Bugatti or a
Deusenberg, you probably don't need our advice.

3.   Will your vintage or classic be an "everyday driver?" Daily use puts a
strain on old parts and systems. Not that a collector car can't be driven
regularly but it had better be dependable; something that starts on demand,
can be readily repaired, has parts that are easy to find. And a driver who
can afford the price of breakdowns.

4.   If the car needs restoration will you be paying someone to do the work
or are you planning a do-it-yourself project? Among other things, consider
the space you'll need to disassemble and store that vintage beauty.
Half-finished restoration projects can lead to frayed tempers and even,
though we hate to suggest it, marriage problems.

5.   If you are planning to drive your vintage beauty on public roads keep
in mind that it was built for a different time; slower traffic, less highway
congestion, more tolerant drivers. Those old drum brakes may not be adequate
for a panic stop in modern traffic so learn to adapt. Non-power steering
will require muscle. Earlier power steering systems are slow and sloppy.
Turn signals, if they exist, might be invisible to traffic accustomed to
big, bright blinkers.

6.   It may be necessary to arrange special insurance for a collectible. Be
aware that older cars do not have the anti-theft devices nor the serial
number database of newer cars. Hot-wiring an older car is child's play.

7.   Your "significant other" had better be as excited about the plan as you
are. She may be thinking of a new kitchen or that trip to Rome you always
promised. Budget with your lady in mind or you may be forced to choose
between two loves. Hot tip: Get her involved and with luck she'll soon be on
your side. Couples do have a lot of fun in the classic and vintage car
hobby; introduce her to like-minded people.

8.   And finally, though this may seem repetitive after all we've said, get
your financial ducks in order before you begin. Falling in love with a car
and making a commitment without sufficient planning is, if you'll forgive a
cliché, a recipe for disaster.

9.   If you've done it right, as suggested above, you can have the fun of
searching for that dream car. And that, indeed, can be a lot of fun. Just be
cautious, be prepared to pull back and wait if necessary, perhaps even
accept a little less than what you'd planned.
Jeff Rice - 23 Sep 2005 00:37 GMT
http://www.classic-british-cars.com/car-buyers-guide.html

Car Buyers Guide
How to Buy a Classic Car

     If you are considering the purchase of a classic car and don't know
where to begin, perhaps these suggestions may serve as a guide.

       1.. Determine what you are looking for.
       2.. Do some basic research.
       3.. Ask the initial questions.
       4.. Test drive the car.
       5.. Get a professional inspection.
       6.. Do the paperwork.

     Determine what you are looking for.

     When shopping for a used/abused/adored/restored classic car you have
choices ranging from cars that have to be hauled in a trailer because it's
basically just a bunch of loosely connected parts to cars that you want to
haul in a trailer to protect it's museum quality restoration.  Your first
level of decision making is to determine where in this spectrum you want
start.

     Questions to consider include:

       a.. Do you want to do a major restoration?
       b.. Are you interested in and capable of doing some mechanical work
yourself?
       c.. Do you want a car you can drive every day?
       d.. Would you enjoy entering your car in competitions?
       e.. Do you just want a great looking car to drive on weekends in
good weather?
       f.. Are you buying as an investment?

     The answer to these questions determine how you measure the flaws you
are certainly going to find.

     Do some basic research.

     If this is your first venture into this fantasy land, you obviously
have more research to do than an experienced owner.  A good investment of
your time, even if you are not a first-timer, is to do some pricing
research.  The "beginner" should spend at least a little time reading about
some of the characteristics and unusual maintenance requirements of the
different models.

     Pricing research can begin here looking at the Classic Car Classifieds
can give you a very good idea of what is available and the general prices of
the different makes and models.  Another excellent source of information is
"Miller's Collectors Cars Price Guide 2003/4".

     There are many classic car clubs located throughout the world.
Joining or visiting one of these clubs would give you the opportunity to
talk with some car owners who will gladly share their experiences with you
about the practical side of owning their Austin Healey.  Ask questions such
as how easy or difficult is it to find a good mechanic for repairs, do you
need to use leaded gasoline, what would they be sure to look for if they
were buying another Austin Healey.  In a single evening at one of their
meetings, you could learn things that would help prevent much grief later.
A very good list of car clubs can be found at www.Classic-British-Cars.com.

     Ask the initial questions.

     When you locate a car you want to pursue, be prepared with a list of
questions you want answered.  Having an actual printed, in-your-hand list
will help you remember the important issues and help prevent the
conversation from wandering.  Let me re-state a point to keep in mind when
doing this initial investigation - you will find problems.  Any car you look
at will be 30 to 50 years old (or older).  If it was in absolutely perfect
condition, the price would be prohibitive unless you are prepared to pay for
a museum quality car.

     Keep in mind there are two basic types of questions: questions with
factual answers and questions with opinion answers.  Questions like "How
long have you owned the car?" and "Have you had problems getting repair
parts?" have easy, factual answers.   Asking "How does it run?" or "How does
it look?" is asking for their opinion.  It is my opinion that asking the
factual questions first are easier for the seller to answer and help lay the
foundation for the opinion question.  The answer to "Who does your
drive-train and engine repairs?" not only gets you the name of a source of
repairs, but also lets you know that repairs have been needed.

     We have prepared a list of question on a "printer-friendly" page.
Some buyers have found it helpful to cut and paste the list to a text editor
or word processor so they can make changes and editions.  To see our list
Click Here.

     If you think we have left out a valuable question, email Classic
British Cars.  We appreciate your help.

     Test drive the car.

     Now for the fun part!  You have located a candidate, scheduled a test
drive, and now you are ready to actually see and drive what is, quite
possibly, going to be the fulfillment of your dream.  A reality is that
letting you (or me!) judge one of these classic cars is as dangerous as
letting a nineteen-year-old with raging hormones select a mate for life.
Before laying eyes on this beauty, we need to determine, as rationally as
possible, what are going to be the minimum requirements for appearance and
performance. Our next goal is make a clear assessment of the car.  To aid in
this process, we suggest that you go prepared with the proper tools and a
checklist to insure that things are not over-looked in the passion of the
moment. One extra benefit of being prepared is that the seller will realize
you are a serious buyer who is likely to discover the car's weaknesses and
perhaps will be more complete in describing the car's condition.

     The first things you want to evaluate are the condition of the
bodywork and appearance issues. In general, bodywork is more expensive than
mechanical work. The biggest enemy of a classic car is rust. You need to
look for rust with the same zeal as a detective covering a crime scene. We
discuss this more on our checklist.

     Next you need to confirm the mechanical condition. Keep in mind you
are not looking for a car with absolutely no problems. You just want to know
what needs to done immediately, what will need to done soon, and is this car
capable of being maintained and available for your driving pleasure.
Jeff Rice - 23 Sep 2005 00:44 GMT
http://channels.netscape.com/autos/package.jsp?name=autos/buying_classic1

    Buying a Classic Car
     By Eric Peters
     03/31/05

     Picking out a classic car you'd like to own is easy. It's finding (and
buying) the thing that can be as challenging as a full-on rotisserie
restoration.

     Finding it involves scouring "Antique and Collectible" classifieds ads
(Hemmings Motor News, Old Car Trader, etc.) and checking with clubs devoted
to the make/model you're after (for example, the Pontiac Oakland Club
International) to find a candidate.

     Unless you're incredibly lucky when you find a car up for sale, it
won't be local, maybe not even in your part of the country. This is where
things begin to get tough. You can proceed from afar, trusting the seller's
honesty as well as his perception of what such terms as "slight rust" might
mean, or you can road trip (by plane, train or automobile) to actually check
it out yourself. The first option involves a lot less expense and hassle up
front, but the second option might save you a lot of heavy-duty grief later
on, even if you do burn up some gas, airfare, time and trouble.

     Personally, I'd recommend inspecting the vehicle yourself. There are
so many advantages it's almost a no-brainer. They include:

     Being able to talk at length with the seller in person about the car.
It's much harder for a seller with something to hide to bamboozle you in
person than it is over the phone. He has to look you in the eye, and you can
use your "Cheese-o-Meter" to sniff out any bad vibes.

     Being able to do an actual walk-around and crawl around. A car that
looks like a show winner in a JPEG digital snapshot might hold up a lot less
well in person. You'll be able to sight down the quarter panels for evidence
of Bondo (Bring a magnet, too. Wrap it in tissue paper and use it to check
for body filler and rust repair. If it doesn't stick to a panel that ought
to be metal, you can bet your Quadrajet something is fishy.) as well as
eyeball the undercarriage for signs of serious problems such as frame rot.
(Be very suspicious of recently applied black undercoating. This stuff is
often used by shady sellers to disguise Swiss-cheese floor pans and frame
rails.)

     Being able to actually hear the engine and drive the car. Some people
have been lucky and bought a collectible car they've never even sat in until
the day the truck brings it to their driveway. And while most people
involved in the old car hobby are exceptionally nice, as well as above
board, there are some stinky clowns out there who will sell you a
Motor-Honeyed turducken with 180,000 miles on the clock instead of 80,000.
In contrast to modern cars, it is incredibly easy to roll back the odometer
on a car built in the 1960s or 1970s. And it's equally easy to do an
el-cheapo "rebuild" to get the engine to stop smoking, at least for a little
while. These are things you'll be much more likely to detect if you're there
in the flesh behind the wheel of your new baby.

     Being able to negotiate. Nothing beats being physically at the
seller's place with cash in hand when it comes to whittling down the price.
He wants to get rid of the car, and there you are, wad of bills distending
your pocket. The immediacy, the nearness of the boodle, is an enticement
that just can't be equaled by making offers over the phone. After all, you
might change your mind, leaving the seller holding the bag. But if you're a
seller looking to get $18,500 for your mint '67 Mustang and have already
dealt with half a dozen Internet tire kickers, it's mighty tempting to
accept a real-deal offer of $17,900 from that nice dude you've just spent
half an hour with in your driveway.

     On the other hand, sometimes you've got no choice but to buy from afar
sight unseen. If your dream car is highly unusual or very rare,
opportunities are often few and far between. You may not have the luxury of
time to get out to see the car before someone else beats you to it. Rather
than lose what may be a once in a lifetime (or at least once every five to
10 years) opportunity, it may be necessary to dig deep and hope for the
best.

     But you can hedge your bet, at least a little.

       a.. Ask the seller if he'd agree to accept a deposit to hold the car
and hold off other buyers until you can make arrangements to see it yourself
(or have a trusted friend do it for you). If the car turns out to be less
than you had imagined or had been led to believe, you can always walk away
and lose only the deposit instead of being stuck with the keys to a clunker.

       b.. Ask the seller to provide you with the car's Vehicle
Identification Number (and any other supporting documentation) to back up
claims of the vehicle's status as a collectible. There are unscrupulous
people out there who will take a standard-issue model of an older car (for
example, a six-cylinder Chevelle) and, with aftermarket and reproduction
parts and trim, create a faux collectible (in this case, an SS 396
Chevelle). Many of these clones are superb, and the only way to tell the
difference is by a thorough examination of the VIN, engine stampings, body
codes and so on. But a clone is worth far less than a real-deal original.

       c.. If you are not extremely knowledgeable about the particular car
you're looking at, find someone who is to advise and coach you about the
right questions to ask the seller. You can find such an advisor in a club
devoted to the make/model car you're thinking about buying. For example,
Pontiac Oakland Club International has a membership base of hobbyists
devoted to classic Pontiacs such as the GTO and Firebird with encyclopedic
knowledge they're usually happy to share with someone interested in getting
into the hobby.
     Lastly, always listen to your gut. If it tells you something's not
right even if the car looks great, take a long minute to think very hard
about doing the deal. As anyone who has been at this game for awhile can
tell you, that inner sense that something's not quite kosher is almost
always right on the money.

     Ignore it at your peril!
midlant@earthlink.net - 23 Sep 2005 05:08 GMT
John, I am working under more of a handicap than usual. I have a
rectangle in the middle of my screen:
"This program has performed an illegal opoeration... and I missed the
link.
I would think that something like "Numerous guides are available
through this SDC site to inspect a potential purchase. It is advisable
to confer with member of your chapter before doing your first
inspection."

If we get a real klutz who thinks that he can do it and ends up with a
clunker, we don't want him blaming us. Having a "sea daddy" to aid him
take his first steps may be safer.

What you think?

Karl
Jeff Rice - 22 Sep 2005 12:40 GMT
Here's a few 'suggestions' to consider....

Old car ownership has made good family projects
(change to)
Old car ownership can make for a good family project.

(reads a bit easier)
--------------------------------------
Old cars are used as attention-grabbers for business. (If you're
> thinking of this one, take into account who will be driving it - do
> you really want a minimum-wage kid behind the wheel?)
(change to)
Old cars can be a great marketing tool that can draw attention to your
business.
(Check with your insurance provider as to business use)

(I'd leave the comment about minimum wage completely out of there. It might
be offensive to many.)
---------------------------------------

Others may see one as just an interesting weekend vehicle that can also fill
in as a spare car.
Many enjoy using an old car for wedding rentals.

(add)
(Check with your insurance company. Collector vehicle insurance is readily
available from many sources).
---------------------------------------

I'll keep reading and re-reading this and add a few more later...
Jeff

<Karl wrote...
> We have nothing like this on the SDC website, so, after contacting the
> webmaster, I have come up with this.
[quoted text clipped - 107 lines]
>
> Karl Haas
midlant@earthlink.net - 23 Sep 2005 00:12 GMT
I will also be adding some quotes from the SDC Forum and deleting my
version of them. I'll give a plug toNG and Forum, also.

Jeff, I appreciate your comments/suggestions about my phrasing. I was
rushing rto get this on the NG before I had my evening wine and taped
MC racing from Speedvision from a few days ago. Otherwise, I would have
had the Forum and NG stuff included.

Keeep sending suggestions, folks.

Karl
midlant@earthlink.net - 23 Sep 2005 04:40 GMT
(Quotes from the forum I may use:)

Other voices, from the SDC forum and Studebaker News Group:

"The cheapest car will cost the most" JDP

"I thought long an hard and ended up paying more than I planned. But,
I had a driver "out of the box" and didn't have to sink a bunch
of money into it." 65Cruiser

" Spend $7000 now and get something driveable that doesn't need
major amounts of work or get the $1500 car that needed $7000 worth of
work."

"Buy it cheap and spend as little as possible to get it running again
and fix it up" iceman t1

Buy a car that is in good running condition and drivable. The interior
need not be perfect, but should be presentable.   ...buy as much as you
can afford and enjoy driving it right away. Otherwise you might become
frustrated and lose your enthusiasm. Studeroger

Whatever car you consider, you're better off with one that needs a
lot of work but has not been poorly "restored."... If you're
patient, handy with tools and ask questions when you have a p[roblem,
any work you do ypurself will cut your cost in half. Rockne10

Find the absolute best Studebaker you can afford, spend just a little
more than you planned to nobtain it, and enjoy.   Studedude1961

...join your local chapter and talk to the other members about what you
want and how much you can afford. Longtime members Have llots of
contacts and could steer you to a very nice car at a decent price.
GTtim

You can always sell a good car. curt

If it's a basket case, stay away, these cars are always money sumps.
A lot depends on how handy you are. J

Under no circumstances start with something that will exhaust your
intetest...or her's. If she ain't happy... rockne10.

Like Rog says, get a car you can drive so you won't get discouraged.
It will be available if your daily Brand X conks out, too. Sumf SDC
John Poulos - 23 Sep 2005 05:00 GMT
   If everyone listens to your advice, who'll buy the dogs.<g>

> (Quotes from the forum I may use:)
>
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
> Like Rog says, get a car you can drive so you won't get discouraged.
> It will be available if your daily Brand X conks out, too. Sumf SDC

Signature

JP/Maryland
Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com
My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/
64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
62 Lark 2 door
61 Hawk
60? Hawk
53 Starlight

midlant@earthlink.net - 23 Sep 2005 07:48 GMT
Those with poor memories.

Hell, they might even buy them several times over.

Karl (Very evil vendor to be, in that case) Haas

> If everyone listens to your advice, who'll buy the dogs.<g>
>
[quoted text clipped - 54 lines]
> 60? Hawk
> 53 Starlight
Bill Clark - 25 Sep 2005 13:56 GMT
Karl
Most of the reviews cover the cost and comittment of buying an old car, but
people just getting into it should ask themselves why they want an old car.
One of the reasons I've heard a lot is that its a chance for them to do
something with their kid.  My experience is that adolesents want to do
things with their parents, and they want to try out a lot of different
things.  Buying a car to restore is not like buying your kid a junior set of
golf clubs and taking him out on Sunday afternoon.  He or she might spend a
few weeks with you working on it, but in many cases it won't be long before
the car is turned into another storage unit in the garage.  On the other
hand, if the kid stays with it, do you want his first car to be an R2
Avanti.  My point is, restoring a car might be one of the things to do with
a kid,  but think it through before you buy a car as a father son project.
Whatever you do, be sure you have a regular no pressure time to talk to the
kid.

The other point to think through is why one wants an old car and what the
end result is.  Do you want to have an old car to take to drive work and
drive to the cruise in and show, or do you want to build a concours car?  Do
you want to spend no time on it, or do you want to get into something just
to work on it and you don't care if you ever drive it.  Thinking through the
why of this deal will help answer the other questions.  It will also help
with the plan for how you do it.  I would suggest that the first timer never
buy a car they have to work on a lot, but rather get something they can
drive and ease into the hobby.

Bill

> We have nothing like this on the SDC website, so, after contacting the
> webmaster, I have come up with this.
[quoted text clipped - 107 lines]
>
> Karl Haas
Jeff Rice - 25 Sep 2005 14:14 GMT
Well said Bill...
I have an acquaintance here in town that wanted to buy a '49 F1 Ford for his
dad.
His dad always spoke of the old pickup he had and said it was his favorite.
He wanted to have a fairly easy father/son project.
He asked me to look around for him.
I found him three or four candidates that ran the spectrum (finished, almost
done, just started, and barn fresh)..
I advised my friend to buy one that was drivable so they could outer around
in it and tinker with it.
He looked and bought a rough truck that had been gone through quick to turn
for a few bucks and had an older Maaco style paint job.
Looked ok until you looked close.
They drove it exactly one week, then they sent it off to a body shop for a
total body off rebuild and paint.
Haven't seen the truck since.
IMHO, they should have financed the finished truck and driven and enjoyed it
the entire time they were paying it off.
Time means more when you have a running clock like his father has...
Jeff ( There is a direct correlation between time and money) Rice

"Bill Clark" wrote...
> Karl
> Most of the reviews cover the cost and comittment of buying an old car,
[quoted text clipped - 135 lines]
>>
>> Karl Haas
midlant@earthlink.net - 27 Sep 2005 19:00 GMT
You trying to make me feel old?

Maybe each chapter should set up a "Studebaker advice line" for body
shops and place articles in "Bodyman Weekly" about it.

Karl
bondobill1@aol.com - 27 Sep 2005 15:40 GMT
>We have nothing like this on the SDC website, so, after contacting the
>webmaster, I have come up with this.
>I recognize that it still needs smoothing.

I would like very much to add my observations. It has been a while
since I bought my last Studebaker, and since having to have the car
repaired after fire many things came back to me.

There have always been two schools of thought, or possibly more. One
school says, buy a car that is all there in parts etc, and possibly
running. That schools reasoning is that once done you will have first
hand knowledge of what was done and how well.

The other school says to buy a car that is done, and buy the best car
you can afford based on your budget.

Last year I saw a Speedster that possibly no expense was spared on its
restoration, it didn't even resemble a Studebaker, it was a musseum
piece, off art, not cars but art. Everything was so perfectly painted,
everything was laid out under the hood and all pieces had the same
care the body and and inteior had.  I would love to own that car, but
I could never bring myself to drive it. Why, because after 17 yrs on
the road my engine and frame ONCE looked that good. Now, I would have
to pull the engine and tear it down just to restore it cosmetically.
Doesn't matter thatthe engine runs great, but if you waant that look
that is what yoou will need to do.

Unless you are someone with golden hands, who can use machine tools
and form brackets, or know somebody who can you are at the mercy of
finding people to work on Studebakers'.

Todays Service Station owner is of the age where they had served in
Nam, cars had taken huge leaps in design and manufacturing and while
before they went over to serve their country to the time they returned
they forgot about the $50 first cars they got in high school, and over
these 35 years certain proceedures on a Stude mystify them. Open any
Service Manual to the Brake section 47 thru 61. The paragraph that
states that before adjusting the brakes you need 3/8ths free travel at
the pedal. You and I know that that  is done at the M/C, then you can
proceed to adjust.

That paragraph or proceedure totally mystifies them, it can't work
that way. The self adjusters with that little package of parts, nah
that can't adjust the brakes, and whats with the two lop sided screws
on the back of the backing plate, thats not how you adjust brakes.

What I am getting at, is that there are many  things as Studebaker
owners we understand, or accept, or take for granted but normal
service folks cannot grasp.

Bottom line, buying your first Studebaker, make sure you really love
it and really want it, no sense taking something on, loosing interest
and then see it rot away or sell it at a huge loss.

Our chapter went to visit a famous classic car restoration facility in
NYC. There was a Gold 57 Hawk that got hit in the nose and then
clipped in the rear quarter. While we were standing there a "body man"
comes over to the Hawk with a SAWSALL, we all start screaming. What
are  you doing. The owner gets defensive and says they have to remove
the damaged sheet metal and weld in new patches. First, we explained
the sheet metal bolts on, then we told him that he still could get NOS
sheet metal, he was flabbergasted.

So, if your buying your first Studebaker, READ, learn about the car
and if your really serious buy original copies of the Service Manual,
and both parts books. Study them, even if your just going to write out
big checks to have it worked on, you will know if your getting a snow
job, and if your doing it, it won't be a mystery

Bill
 
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