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Car Forum / Antique and Collectibles / Studebaker / September 2005

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Avanti starter current draw?

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N8N - 25 Sep 2005 17:13 GMT
OK... hopefully someone here can help me with my issue...  in my '55
coupe if the car sits for any length of time, it takes a couple cranks
to get fuel up to the carburetor.  Often the battery will run down
after only 3 or 4 cranks but then when I bring out a booster pack it
will start right up and run great from there on.  This is a standard
'63 289 with an Avanti automatic starter on it, all stock except for
newer Carter AFB carb and MoPar electronic ignition conversion.  I am
using a 12V starter solenoid with an added ballast bypass wire, and the
coil is intended for use with an external ballast (just to eliminate
the obvious questions.)

Now here's the puzzler.  The starter that was on the car when I bought
it shows 300A of current draw.  I found another starter (same part
number) in JP's stash and swapped it out, it also shows a high current
draw, sometimes spiking up to 400A and if you let it crank a bit it
drops down to 200A steady state.  Just to check the calibration of the
meter, I tried my '62 Daytona and it draws 100A, although it has the
standard 3-pole starter not the Avanti starter.  I don't know how well
that gauge is calibrated but it is clear that the Daytona's starter
does draw significantly less current than the one in the '55.

I tried setting the timing with a light (it was a couple degrees
advanced from the index) and it didn't make any difference in starter
current draw.

is this normal?  Do I just need a bigger battery?  (I hope not, then I
would have to find a Hawk battery tray, hold down, etc.)  Or do I have
two bad starters?  Anything else I ought to check before taking my
starter to the auto electric shop?

thanks,

nate
N8N - 25 Sep 2005 17:16 GMT
> OK... hopefully someone here can help me with my issue...  in my '55
> coupe if the car sits for any length of time, it takes a couple cranks
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> nate

Forgot to mention, battery is less than 6 mos. old.  I just bought the
largest 12V battery that would fit in the stock 6V battery box.

nate
Jeff Rice - 25 Sep 2005 18:20 GMT
Well, 'Large' has nothing to do with CCA.
Pretty plastic boxes can have crap in them, and people will buy the hype. I
would check the label pretty close.
Just a thought...
Jeff

"N8N" wrote...

>> OK... hopefully someone here can help me with my issue...  in my '55
>> coupe if the car sits for any length of time, it takes a couple cranks
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
>
> nate
Grumpy AuContraire - 25 Sep 2005 19:09 GMT
Yes, the 6 volt battery boxes are "tiny" compared to the 12 volt successors.

I currently have a 12 volt battery in the '55 Prez that fits square-wise
but also sports a square piece of  2x6 to raise it up.  Probably far
from being the optimum set up but then, my car has the lowly low
compression 259 in it..

JT

> Well, 'Large' has nothing to do with CCA.
> Pretty plastic boxes can have crap in them, and people will buy the hype. I
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
> >
> > nate
Grumpy AuContraire - 25 Sep 2005 19:07 GMT
Go to the 12V battery tray and use a Group 24 battery.  Your troubles
will be over.

JT

> OK... hopefully someone here can help me with my issue...  in my '55
> coupe if the car sits for any length of time, it takes a couple cranks
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> nate
Gordon Richmond - 25 Sep 2005 22:33 GMT
N8,

Sounds like, A: you have a pretty weak battery. Maybe it's not getting
charged properly? Hang a battery load tester on it and see what
happens.

B. could be one or both starters have worn bushings, that allow the
armature to drag when it encounters the resistance of cranking a cold
engine. It's pretty easy to open up the starter and look for shiny
spots on the armature and pole shoes.

Gord Richmond
N8N - 26 Sep 2005 13:21 GMT
> N8,
>
> Sounds like, A: you have a pretty weak battery. Maybe it's not getting
> charged properly?

Mr. Fluke says I have 14.3V at idle at the battery posts...  don't
think that is the problem

> Hang a battery load tester on it and see what
> happens.

Would like to, there's just one problem :)

I guess the next logical step would be to take it back to the parts
store and have them load test it...  not sure how much I trust them
though because they have a vested interest in the battery being
"good"...

> B. could be one or both starters have worn bushings, that allow the
> armature to drag when it encounters the resistance of cranking a cold
> engine. It's pretty easy to open up the starter and look for shiny
> spots on the armature and pole shoes.
>
> Gord Richmond

Yup, maybe that will be next weekend's project, as the "original"
starter is now out of the car (didn't bother to swap 'em back)

nate
--Shiva-- - 26 Sep 2005 00:51 GMT
On 25 Sep 2005 09:13:20 -0700,  you wrote:

> Anything else I ought to check before taking my
>starter to the auto electric shop?
>
>thanks,
>
>nate
take starter OUT of vehicle..

mount nose down in a vice..
remove the back cover, and the complete field windings case..

you are left with the armature sticking in the NOSE of the
starter..
GENTLY grab the armature.. at the back end PUSH SIDEWAYS..
if the brush end of the shaft moves over, say half inch
sideways, you need a nose busing replaced-SIZED TO FIT..

(There ARE in some starters, undersized bushings available, just
like main bearings..)

if NOTHING ELSE is wrong, it should help the current draw
problem..

CHECK THE GROUND ON THE BLOCK!!!

    --Shiva--
   
   
midlant@earthlink.net - 27 Sep 2005 01:10 GMT
I would run jumper cables from the terminals to the starter / block in
parrellel to see in the cables might be at fault.

Then you should borrow starter, solenoid, cables etc from s car that
cranks well and se if that helps.
(I also agree with the carb drain-down Mike mentions as to the primary
fault.)
Karl
Mike Hunter - 26 Sep 2005 17:51 GMT
My guess is you carberator is draining down

mike hunt

> OK... hopefully someone here can help me with my issue...  in my '55
> coupe if the car sits for any length of time, it takes a couple cranks
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> nate
R W Hughes - 27 Sep 2005 06:23 GMT
> Now here's the puzzler.  The starter that was on the car when I bought
> it shows 300A of current draw.  I found another starter (same part
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> that gauge is calibrated but it is clear that the Daytona's starter
> does draw significantly less current than the one in the '55.

Those (300A,400A) are awfully high current drains for a 12v starter. If
that is what is going into the starter, your battery, solenoid, wires,
adn grounds must all be in good shape but the starters are highly
questionable.
Signature

Robert W. Hughes (Bob)
BackYard Engineering
29:40.237N, 95:28.726W or perhaps 30:55.265N, 95:20.590W
Houston, Texas "The city with too much Oxygen"
rwhughe@oplink.net

midlant@earthlink.net - 27 Sep 2005 09:02 GMT
Turn the engine over with the front pulley and do the same with the
Lark engine.
(Remove the plugs first)
That might be your answer

Karl
 
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