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Car Forum / Antique and Collectibles / Studebaker / November 2005Whatever happened to mechanical power steering and why?
I was reading some old Stude road tests today. In '53 the mags seemed very happy with the "new" mechanical power steering introduced that year. I know it was replaced by the hydraulic type very early in the model year but wondered: Did they test it before they installed it? How could it work in tests but not in the field? I understand it was supposed to be too noisy but was that the REAL reason? Is there a Turning Wheels with this story in it? Curiouser and curiouser. John What a shock! It's been 2 days....NO ONE knows? Hmmmmm I guess it must remain a Studebaker mystery....;-) Sorry, thought someone else would take it. It was more expensive, noisy less reliable and more complicated than hydraulic systems. > What a shock! It's been 2 days....NO ONE knows? Hmmmmm I guess it must > remain a Studebaker mystery....;-)  SignatureJP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 62 Lark 2 door 61 Hawk 60? Hawk 55 custom HT 53 coupe rod. 53 Starlight Thanx, JP. That's about what I underestood...but why didn't they figure this out BEFORE they accepted and installed it? I have heard that one car magazine claimed about 40 units actually were sold, then recalled. A respected Studebaker historian wrote it was 'quickly withdrawn from the market, mainly because it was found to be more expensive than the conventional hydraulic system'. The late Earle Haley (who helped write the service manuals) said an undetermined number of the units were bought by engineering, but never went into production. He said rumor was they couldn't get the units to operate quietly enough, and had also heard a story that they were unsafe. Something about the possibility of the clutches sticking causing loss of control. So, take yer pick I guess! But if it was so "expensive" or "complicated" or "noisey" how did it get past the development state? How did it get on ANY cars for sale? I think there is a story there somewhere, just don't know where. Probably all the participants are gone, in one way or another, and we may NEVER know the complete story. Sad..... John But if it was so "expensive" or "complicated" or "noisey" how did it get past the development state? How did it get on ANY cars for sale? I think there is a story there somewhere, just don't know where. Probably all the participants are gone, in one way or another, and we may NEVER know the complete story. Sad..... John John, I don't think it ever got installed on any cars for sale. As to why it was developed, maybe to avoid having to pay patent royalties? Also, the then-current Saginaw offset PS box was heavy monster; maybe Stude's own system would have been lighter. Just speculation on my part, Gord Richmond I remember reading about this in Pop Science or Mechanics or one of those when it was announced, the big deal was you didn't have the continual parasitic drain of a pump pumping hydraulic fluid around so it would improve gas mileage since it only took engine power when you were actually turning the wheel. SignatureRobert W. Hughes (Bob) BackYard Engineering 29:40.237N, 95:28.726W or perhaps 30:55.265N, 95:20.590W Houston, Texas "The city with too much Oxygen" rwhughe@oplink.net A few years ago, electrical PS was suposed to be the coming thing. At a motor show I asked the guy-in-the-booth how it was going. He said that there had been some cases of interference between the current surge induction and computers, but that was history. That was several motor shows ago - I'm not sure even with what country it happened. It might have been at the one where there was a long line to buy cow magnets to tape to fuel line to align molecules for better mileage! Karl Karl > don't think it ever got installed on any cars for sale. It DID get installed on the ones for the tests because comments were in the test. And I have a shop manual to repair it. It certainly got past the development stage. I guess my question is, if it was so bad, how did it get installed on ANY cars, test or retail? It reminds me of the Fiero electric power steering that was gonna be on the '88s. Mention is made of it in the Owner's Manual and I have seen the units on ebay and a write-up, including pix on one of the Fiero NGs. Again, it was supposed to be too noisy. But, again, if it was sooo bad, how did it get past the test stage? John > > don't think it ever got installed on any cars for sale. > > It DID get installed on the ones for the tests because comments were in > the test. And I have a shop manual to repair it. It certainly got past > the development stage. I guess my question is, if it was so bad, how did > it get installed on ANY cars, test or retail? Just because a component got included in the shop manual or owners manual or extesively advertised does not mean that it got released for sale to the public. A case in point is the one-off 1947 Champion station wagon that is currently being restored. There is a section in both the 1947 and 1948 Champion Owners Guides on the use and care of it, yet no more than just the one were made. As well, we know how well the 1942 Turbo-Matic Drive was advertized, but it was determined none ever got sold to the public. The same is true for brand-X cars. I remember the 1977/8 Oldsmobile Toronado XS with the wraparound back window like a Starlight coupe that was supposed to come with a power T-roof that overlapped in the center when it was open. It was in the brochure for that year, and in the Motor Trend's new car issue, but when the XS hit the showrooms, they all had the power moonroof instead. Apparently, there were seal problems and unit costs with the overlapping T-roof that were never resolved, so it remained a one-off prototype despite the promotion of it. True, some cars in the past did get sold to the public in very small quantities before a running change was made. One car I recall reading about was the copper-cooled 1922 Chevrolet that was about the only Kettering invention gone bad. There was something like 100 made before all were recalled. Two owners refused to comply, and one is still in existence today. So maybe an early '53 could be out there with a mechanical P/S unit just waiting to be discovered... Craig Parslow > It reminds me of the Fiero electric power steering that was gonna be on > the '88s. Mention is made of it in the Owner's Manual and I have seen the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > John > > don't think it ever got installed on any cars for sale. > > It DID get installed on the ones for the tests because comments were in > the test. And I have a shop manual to repair it. It certainly got past > the development stage. I guess my question is, if it was so bad, how did > it get installed on ANY cars, test or retail? Just because a component got included in the shop manual or owners manual or extesively advertised does not mean that it got released for sale to the public. A case in point is the one-off 1947 Champion station wagon that is currently being restored. There is a section in both the 1947 and 1948 Champion Owners Guides on the use and care of it, yet no more than just the one were made. As well, we know how well the 1942 Turbo-Matic Drive was advertized, but it was determined none ever got sold to the public. The same is true for brand-X cars. I remember the 1977/8 Oldsmobile Toronado XS with the wraparound back window like a Starlight coupe that was supposed to come with a power T-roof that overlapped in the center when it was open. It was in the brochure for that year, and in the Motor Trend's new car issue, but when the XS hit the showrooms, they all had the power moonroof instead. Apparently, there were seal problems and unit costs with the overlapping T-roof that were never resolved, so it remained a one-off prototype despite the promotion of it. True, some cars in the past did get sold to the public in very small quantities before a running change was made. One car I recall reading about was the copper-cooled 1922 Chevrolet that was about the only Kettering invention gone bad. There was something like 100 made before all were recalled. Two owners refused to comply, and one is still in existence today. So maybe an early '53 could be out there with a mechanical P/S unit just waiting to be discovered... Craig Parslow > It reminds me of the Fiero electric power steering that was gonna be on > the '88s. Mention is made of it in the Owner's Manual and I have seen the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > John in re: mechanical power steering......I think one of the old TW articles said that four (4) were made and sold.....I simply can't believe that they'd tool-up for it then cancel it before it even had a chance to give trouble in the field.......and if it were true that a small quantity reached customers before they pulled the plug, they sure must have had a crash program to switch to convetional hydraulic. in re: electric power steering ....... yeah, they've been promising that....and complete "drive by wire" for some years as the answer to all our problems. a few of the magazine and MotorWeek tests of high=dollar imports that now have electric steering all pan it: no feel, no feedback, scary, etc. could have told them that! guess they (mostly German companies) are now spending a lot trying to design artificial feedback into it....what a joke! and, then there's I-Drive.....BMWs overkill answer to questions nobuddy asked. and....how about the Copper-Cooled Chevrolet going into full scale production only to prove to be a bomb. The late Earle Haley was a Studebaker employee in the Service Department, and a Co-Operator advisor. Here are quotes from his letter in July 1979 TW: "............you raised the old bogey of the 1953 Mechanical Power Steering unit. I helped write the 1953 shop manual, you will recall, and that section was one of our most embarrassing. I have no idea how many of the Bendix mechanical units were bought by Engineering, but they never went into production. As usual, internal communications were poor, and when the decision was made to drop the mechanical unit, nobody told the service department. By the time we found out, the manual was already at the printer. We did the best we could--got one of the Saginaw power steering units, and put out a manual on it........." How did it work anyway ( besides noisy)? ie, what was the method of providing assist to the steering linkage? >The late Earle Haley was a Studebaker employee in the Service Department, >and a Co-Operator advisor. Here are quotes from his letter in July 1979 TW: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >We did the best we could--got one of the Saginaw power steering units, and >put out a manual on it........." Ron/Champ 6 1963 8E5 Champ (Champ 6) 1995 VW Passat (Vanilla..yuk) 1994 Volvo 850 (Tilley) 1973 Volvo 1800 ES (Hyacinth Bucket) > in re: electric power steering ....... yeah, they've been promising > that....and complete "drive by wire" for some years as the answer to all [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > and....how about the Copper-Cooled Chevrolet going into full scale > production only to prove to be a bomb. We have a brand new VW Jetta TDI, with electronic steering..No power steering pump or fluid..I like it a lot, when not moving it has that old fashioned feel like the big Oldsmobile's had back in the '60s like you can steer it with one pinky..Great for parking, and getting in and out of tight spots. On the other hand when driving fast, it gets much tighter and more responsive..Supposedly it is also compensates for road crown and cross winds..Don't know for sure, but it always seems to track nicely..From what I hear they can reprogram it with the VAG com to change the feel of it....It also has that cool mechanical automatic transmission called the "DSG" or Direct Shift Gearbox..Talk about an odd feeling shift..Unlike most automatic transmissions with hydraulics and stuff, this one shifts at the exact point of time so there is an almost perfect transfer of power to the next gear It is a six speed..Has two clutches, one for even, the other for odd and reverse is on one of them too..Very cool technology..Gives you automatic transmission with stick efficiency...Thing that is neat is when it shifts it doesn't kick you back..It goes from gear to gear and all you can tell is the change in the engine sound and the tach..Keeps the power curve I guess which is important with a diesel..This one will burn rubber from a stop too..Very peppy yet very good per mile.. John When the electric PS was first being tested - about a decade ago, I asked a man at the UK auto show how things were going. He said that the turning on and off of the electricty, as needed, was messing with the computer. Sp8nd like that got thaat fixed. |
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