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Car Forum / Antique and Collectibles / Studebaker / November 2005

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Fine Tuning R4 Avanti

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Michael - Roseland FL - 01 Nov 2005 05:19 GMT
On the way to the FL State Meet, I noticed the R4 Avanti was
bucking/surging around 65 mph. On the way back I adjusted the carb.
linkage from progressive to sequential.  BIG DIFFERENCE.  The car was
not kicking down when the pedal was all the way to the floor so tonight
I adjusted the kick down linkage until it shifted correctly and kicked
down too. The only I noticed is that under hard acceleration, I get
some pinging/detonation. Should I go more on the distributor advance or
try octane boost? The car runs excellent and is truly a fast
automobile. Thank you!
John Poulos - 01 Nov 2005 05:25 GMT
Less advance or a 'real lead" octane booster will help. If you are
running 1he 12-1 compression R4 heads, you're basically screwed on pump
gas and need racing fuel.

> On the way to the FL State Meet, I noticed the R4 Avanti was
> bucking/surging around 65 mph. On the way back I adjusted the carb.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> try octane boost? The car runs excellent and is truly a fast
> automobile. Thank you!

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Deepnhock - 01 Nov 2005 12:36 GMT
Try adding a quart of diesel fuel and then listen for the ping.
I'd try that before spending big money for kerosene in a fancy bottle
<g>..
Jeff
Ron - 01 Nov 2005 13:41 GMT
I believe that the diesel is good for vapor pressure, but actually
reduced the octane rating. I can't recall where I heard that...anyone
else know for certain? I'd hate for him to blow his R4

>Try adding a quart of diesel fuel and then listen for the ping.
>I'd try that before spending big money for kerosene in a fancy bottle
><g>..
>Jeff

Ron/Champ 6

1963 8E5 Champ (Champ 6)
1995 VW Passat (Vanilla..yuk)
1994 Volvo 850 (Tilley)
1973 Volvo 1800 ES (Hyacinth Bucket)
George Mills - 02 Nov 2005 00:40 GMT
I'd like an answer to this, too. I've forgotten what little I knew about
cetane and octane and diesel and gasoline...octane being the ability to
detonate, and cetane the resistance to detonate, and therefore a lower
octane detonates more easily than a high octane? I do know the diesel works
in hot weather in a gas car in small quantities--and a V8 just seems to run
cooler, but maybe that is just me. I knew some diesel drivers back in
Ontario/Quebec who reversed the process in deep winter (say, -30 to -40
range) and added some gasoline to the tank to improve ease of detonation.
Because diesel is a lot less "dry" than gasoline (especially ethanol
blends?) and provides more lubrication, I would think that it would reduce
the likelihood of detonation from spot overheating in a
high-pressure/high-compression and temperature V8 like an R4, and aren't
there more BTUs available in diesel over gasoline in any case? (or is it a
bad thing in an R4?)
Jim Bartley

> I believe that the diesel is good for vapor pressure, but actually
> reduced the octane rating. I can't recall where I heard that...anyone
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> 1994 Volvo 850 (Tilley)
> 1973 Volvo 1800 ES (Hyacinth Bucket)
Gordon Richmond - 02 Nov 2005 08:28 GMT
"I'd like an answer to this, too. I've forgotten what little I knew
about cetane and octane and diesel and gasoline...octane being the
ability to detonate, and cetane the resistance to detonate, and
therefore a lower octane detonates more easily than a high octane?"

Octane rating is defined as the resistance to detonation of a fuel in
a SPARK IGNITION engine. That may not be the rigorous definition, but
it's pretty close.

I'm uncertain about cetane rating, other than it is a measure of the
fitness of a a fuel for use in a COMPRESSION IGNITION engine.

Point being, cetane rating is meaningless in the context of a spark
ignition (gasoline) engine, and likewise octane rating is meaningless
in a Diesel.

"I do know the diesel works in hot weather in a gas car in small
quantities--and a V8 just seems to run cooler, but maybe that is just
me. I knew some diesel drivers back in Ontario/Quebec who reversed the
process in deep winter (say, -30 to -40 range) and added some gasoline
to the tank to improve ease of detonation."

Apparently adding a little Diesel fuel to you gasoline reduces the
incidence of vapor lock by lowering the vapor pressure of the fuel. I
suspect the truckers who added gasoline to their Diesel fuel did that
in order prevent the fuel from gelling, especially if they got caught
in a cold snap with summer fuel in the tanks. Could be a risky
business, though, as gasoline is such a poor lubricant, that the
injection pump could be damaged.

"Because diesel is a lot less "dry" than gasoline (especially ethanol
blends?) and provides more lubrication, I would think that it would
reduce the likelihood of detonation from spot overheating in a
high-pressure/high-compression and temperature V8 like an R4, and
aren't there more BTUs available in diesel over gasoline in any case?
(or is it a bad thing in an R4?)"

Jim Bartley

I don't know the octane rating of Diesel fuel, but it must be pretty
low. I've heard instances of people accidentally filling their
gasoline vehicle with Diesel, and thinking their engine had blown
because it was knocking so badly.

I don't think I'd risk putting Diesel fuel in an R4 engine.

Gord Richmond
Ron - 02 Nov 2005 13:49 GMT
>I don't know the octane rating of Diesel fuel, but it must be pretty
>low. I've heard instances of people accidentally filling their
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>Gord Richmond

I think that's where I'm remembering this from..Paul Johnston (I
think)...want to comment on diesel in an R1?

Ron/Champ 6

1963 8E5 Champ (Champ 6)
1995 VW Passat (Vanilla..yuk)
1994 Volvo 850 (Tilley)
1973 Volvo 1800 ES (Hyacinth Bucket)
Paul Johnson - 02 Nov 2005 14:02 GMT
>>I don't know the octane rating of Diesel fuel, but it must be pretty
>>low. I've heard instances of people accidentally filling their
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> I think that's where I'm remembering this from..Paul Johnston (I
> think)...want to comment on diesel in an R1?

Pretty close.  It was diesel in a R-2.  I can guarantee that eight gallons
of diesel in a R-2 is not good (probably worse in a R-1).  Can you say
"shake, rattle and roll"? <G>
Paul Johnson
 
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