 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Car Forum / Antique and Collectibles / Studebaker / February 2006Please help my car!
OK guys (and girls too) I am out of ideas as to what to do with my '55 coupe. There's two main problems that keep it from being a nice driver; the first being that the steering box is shot and the second is that my rear brakes lock up under somewhat hard (but nowhere near panic stop) braking. The first I know how to deal with, if I can ever find another steering box. The second I am clueless as to how to fix. Since buying the car, I have replaced all shoes, all wheel cylinders (I may have rebuilt one of the rears with a kit; not sure. I know I replaced at least one, maybe both. Both fronts are new.) cleaned everything, replaced all hoses, replaced master cylinder. I have had all drums off since noticing this problem and nothing really seems amiss. All shoes were from Fairborn Studebaker, so I assume they have the same lining material. I thought initially that this problem might be because the rear tires that came with the wheels I bought from JP might be old and hard. Well I swapped the wheels front to rear and discovered that a) you CAN fit 245/60s on the front of a C-K body if you really want to, and they look cool in an insane, over-the-top kind of way. Steering is kinda hard though. Cop car wheels with a 1/4" spacer. Just so you know. b) Yokohama AVS ES100 tires smell a hell of a lot worse than BFG T/As when you smoke 'em. Yup, the lockup remains at the rear. There are only a couple things that I noticed when looking at the brakes AGAIN today... 1) the pass. side front drum is fairly tight - I have the adjuster backed all the way off and it drags just a little more than I'd really prefer. Didn't want to have the drum cut, however. 2) I suspect that the pass. side front drum is newer than the driver's side, as it is a tighter fit on the shoes, and also the driver's side has some vague rust spots on the braking surface that the pass. side does not have. Does not feel overly worn though, although I don't have brake drum calipers. 3) The pass. side front when I pulled the drum off was squeaky clean. The driver's side, however, had lots of brake dust inside. When I pulled the rears last, I don't remember either having an unusual amount of dust, neither more nor less than I expected. 4) The anti-creep solenoid is still installed on my car, although the wiring is long gone. I am thinking that my next step will be to bypass this valve and see what happens, but I can't imagine that it could do anything to make the rears lock first. Any ideas as to what to do next would be greatly appreciated. I didn't replace any of the springs etc. as they all looked to be in good condition (possibly replaced when previous brake job was done.) I don't feel like I cut any corners on this brake job and I find it odd that this one is fighting me; usually I just disassemble, fix/replace what I see that needs fixing or replacing, and voila, the car stops like it should. I *really* wish I had a couple little tees with some brake pressure gauges so I could see if I had a hydraulic problem or a mechanical problem. But I don't. Such is life. thanks... nate PS - after driving the car around the last couple days, if it weren't for this little issue, I might just consider driving it to York, esp. after I got my backup lights and driver's door mirror installed. BTW the repro mirrors have JUST BARELY enough adjustment to be useful, at least for me... I don't know if I get one for the pass side if I will be able to use it without undercutting the pivot ball some. But anyway it kind of pisses me off that I seem to have a fully functional car and I still can't (safely) drive it...  Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel Nate, I have had a bunch of problems lately with brake shoes, for what it's worth. I have gotten some with linings so full of metal that they rust overnight in high humidity conditions and the first few stops are scary the next day. I just had to put a couple decent used shoes on the back of my Hawk as the relined ones I had just put on made noises like an old walrus when backing up; turns out there was a bent shoe. I have had SEVERAL bent shoes recently that I marked with spray paint and sent back to the vendors. The older our cars get, the more the shoes have been relined and mistreated and the inspectors of the relined shoes dissappeared long ago... I see where SI is offering NEW shoes, but who knows what kind of lining material they are using. Anyone out there used any for any length of time yet? I also had a car in recently that kept locking a rear wheel and it ended up that the drum had worn kind of "bell mouthed". AND, just yesterday I got a copper washer for a brake hose that was made wrong and leaked. Quality control? WTF is that anymore? Studebaker George Possible that the rear wheel cylinders are the wrong size? (as compared to the fronts) "Nate Nagel" wrote... > OK guys (and girls too) I am out of ideas as to what to do with my '55 > coupe. There's two main problems that keep it from being a nice driver; [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > pisses me off that I seem to have a fully functional car and I still can't > (safely) drive it... Good one, Jeff! Maybe six banger cylinders? Brand "X" cylinders?? Studebaker George Nate, an idea of something else to check for. We recently had a 40 Ton articulated truck (earthmoving machine) that exhibited a similar problem with the front brakes (locking after use). The problem was a kinked steel brake line. Just an idea. > OK guys (and girls too) I am out of ideas as to what to do with my '55 > coupe. There's two main problems that keep it from being a nice driver; [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > pisses me off that I seem to have a fully functional car and I still can't > (safely) drive it... N8, It's really EASY to fix. Sell the damned thing, put a clutch in that beautiful '62 HT you have and drive it. That thing is going to rust and mildew into a pile of sh.t sitting under a cover in JP's driveway! >OK guys (and girls too) I am out of ideas as to what to do with my '55 >coupe. There's two main problems that keep it from being a nice driver; [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] >it kind of pisses me off that I seem to have a fully functional car and >I still can't (safely) drive it... Lee DeLaBarre Daytona62 Wow, he still has the hardtop and it only needs a clutch? I don't get it, instead he is pouring money into that POS fake Porsche??? Why not fix the hardtop and do a "rotation" of stude drivers? Studebaker George > Wow, he still has the hardtop and it only needs a clutch? I don't get > it, instead he is pouring money into that POS fake Porsche??? Why not > fix the hardtop and do a "rotation" of stude drivers? > Studebaker George the hardtop has to go, it is too correct for me. It has only 25K original miles give or take (was showing 24ish when I got it; but I ran it for a while with the speedo disconnected as the speedo was making noise.) the coupe came pre-fux0red; anything I do to it will be an improvement, and while restoring it to stock is an option, it's not a really good nor easy option, so it will stay a mutt. I'd rather have a car I can do whatever the heck I like to it. I *may* steal the brakes off the '62 if this thing doesn't start behaving soon though... nate Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel Steal the brakes off the 62? Now I'm REALLY shaking my head...the Porsche has truly warped your mind... Studebaker George (besides, JP should have a TON of brake stuff laying around!) Looks like I need to buy back the 62 from N8 before he makes it a parts car. <g> (Yes, I have brakes laying around) > Steal the brakes off the 62? Now I'm REALLY shaking my head...the > Porsche has truly warped your mind... > Studebaker George > (besides, JP should have a TON of brake stuff laying around!) SignatureJP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 63 Daytona convert. 62 Lark 2 door 60 Hawk 53 coupe rod. > Looks like I need to buy back the 62 from N8 before he makes it a > parts car. <g> (Yes, I have brakes laying around) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> Studebaker George >> (besides, JP should have a TON of brake stuff laying around!) I know you do, I just don't know what parts to replace! (except the whole mess, which I've already done once...) nate Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel I had a problem with the 51 like that but not that bad. I put a #10 residual valve in line about 8 inches behind the master cylinder to the rear brakes. And haven't had a problem. Mine would try to slid the back wheels before the fronts would take hold. bypass the anti-creep and see if issue remains. one small step at a time, grasshopper. Grasshopper did not listen to me when I suggested that Oh wise one. > bypass the anti-creep and see if issue remains. one small step at a > time, grasshopper. SignatureJP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 63 Daytona convert. 62 Lark 2 door 60 Hawk 53 coupe rod. Nate, there were lots of cars that had a reputation for rear wheel lockup, Chrysler made a bunch. Maybe your expectations aren't in line with the engineering of the era. If you want to ensure that the rears won't lock up prematurely, do what Studebaker did with the disc brake GT's, reduce the size of the rear wheel cylinders and make sure the brake shoes aren't self energizing. Or you could get a proportioning valve and plumb it in. Maybe you could fill the trunk with bags of cement or sand or something? Just ideas, just trying to be helpful.....honest.<g> Tim K. > Nate, there were lots of cars that had a reputation for rear wheel > lockup, Chrysler made a bunch. Maybe your expectations aren't in line [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > helpful.....honest.<g> > Tim K. I was think that a change of cylinders was a good fix. If maximum braking is easy on your leg and there is plenty of pedal left, I'd go for larger ones in front, just to avoid having to pull the rear drums.Adding weight might help reduce unsersteer if there is any. I was surprised that larger tires didn't work. You probably have it already, but I suggest picking up what used to,be "the bible" by Fred Puhn, How to Make Your Car Handle. It came out in the 1960s, I think, but the basics are still there. You might try 619 475 1155 (San Diego - His home?) to see if it's still available. Karl > Nate, there were lots of cars that had a reputation for rear wheel > lockup, Chrysler made a bunch. Maybe your expectations aren't in line [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > helpful.....honest.<g> > Tim K. I was think that a change of cylinders was a good fix. If maximum braking is easy on your leg and there is plenty of pedal left, I'd go for larger ones in front, just to avoid having to pull the rear drums.Adding weight might help reduce unsersteer if there is any. I was surprised that larger tires didn't work. You probably have it already, but I suggest picking up what used to,be "the bible" by Fred Puhn, How to Make Your Car Handle. It came out in the 1960s, I think, but the basics are still there. You might try 619 475 1155 (San Diego - His home?) to see if it's still available. Karl Nate - Did you replace the steel lines? Might be crud in the old stuff. After 50 years, that old stuff isn't trustworthy. > N8, > > It's really EASY to fix. Sell the damned thing, put a clutch in that > beautiful '62 HT you have and drive it. That thing is going to rust > and mildew into a pile of sh.t sitting under a cover in JP's driveway! My reaction too. Your stories are rapidly overtaking Jeff Dewitt's continuing disasters <G>. Paul Johnson You have to remember that N8 would obsess more or a incorrecy bend in a fuel line that most of would for a rod knock> <g> Once he get the 55's brakes to lock up evenly as a ABS car, he'll move on to another issue. I know why he's concerned after riding with him in his old VW. He a "toggle switch driver" Takes off at full thrttle from a light, than panic stops from high speed at the next one. It's a good thing he was not born when he could have bought a new Studebaker, the dealers service manager would have shot himself by now. >>N8, >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > continuing disasters <G>. > Paul Johnson SignatureJP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 63 Daytona convert. 62 Lark 2 door 60 Hawk 53 coupe rod. > > N8, > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > continuing disasters <G>. > Paul Johnson Probably the difference between Jeff DeWitt and Nate is "youthful exuberance." I'm sure that the brake issue is rather simple when all the issues are factored in... JT >>>N8, >>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > JT If by "exuberance" you mean I drive 'em hard, guilty as charged. My goal for this car is to turn it into a daily driver - I won't actually use it as such, but I would like it to be in such condition that I could, if I had to. In my area, that means good brakes are a must... I think Lee D. can vouch for this :) I'd consider upgrading to Turner brakes, but it doesn't make sense to me to consider upgrades until I get the stock stuff working well - if the issue causing the problem is something that isn't going to get replaced (if it is the anti-creep or a hard line or...) then upgrading will just give me more expensive brakes that don't work right. (besides, I'm sure a good working, detailed pair of 11" brakes have to be worth something at a swap meet) It's been long enough since I bled the brakes I don't remember if any of them bled faster or slower than the others, but I would think if the fronts were real slow that I would have remembered that. nate Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel > >>>N8, > >>> [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > nate By "exuberance" I mean that one may loose track of cause and effect. Use your engineering training to look at all factors involved and then compare the same to original specs. Things like the effect of different wheel/tire sizes/mixes. Are the wheel cylinders to original specs? Is the correct brake pedal installed for manual or power brakes? Tire inflation? Emergency brake adjustment? Larger tires often will lock up prematurely due to thread loading. Big consideration when sizes are mixed. Often, the solution is simple but hard to see. At least that has been my experience in my working life... JT > > >>>N8, > > >>> [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > Things like the effect of different wheel/tire sizes/mixes. Not a factor, as the issue remains after swapping tires front to rear > Are the > wheel cylinders to original specs? They *should* be the larger "V8" cylinders all around, but I probably will check that next. The fronts are new replacements therefore I need to do some disassembly to verify size as it's not cast into the cylinders like the originals. > Is the correct brake pedal installed > for manual or power brakes? yup, manual brakes > Tire inflation? should be OK > Emergency brake adjustment? good > Larger tires often will lock up prematurely due to thread loading. Big > consideration when sizes are mixed. see above; I swapped the tires F/R as I was initially assuming that my rear tires had gone hard from age > Often, the solution is simple but hard to see. At least that has been > my experience in my working life... ain't that the truth! I just don't see it yet :) nate N8, Have you considered simply buying a manual-adjust proportioning valve from JEGS or your local speed shop, and simply using that to tweak the brake balance? After having eliminated any actual defects, of course. Gord Richmond > > > >>>N8, > > > >>> [quoted text clipped - 74 lines] > > nate Oh, and there's also that nasty possibility of grease or brake fluid contaminated linings. A malady that can cause grief beyond repair. JT Oh great, I'm getting infamous for disasters <G> Jeff DeWitt >>N8, >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > continuing disasters <G>. > Paul Johnson And to think that I was PO'd at JP for selling that truck to you while I was out of town! nate > Oh great, I'm getting infamous for disasters <G> > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > continuing disasters <G>. > > Paul Johnson To cure this problem we used to arc the shoes with about .010 clearance at the toe and heal of the shoe. This allows the shoe to release from the drum. It also makes a little softer feel to the pedal. Brake power is still there as the shoes will conform to the drum on a hard application. Another plus is this helps prevent sqealing. > OK guys (and girls too) I am out of ideas as to what to do with my '55 > coupe. There's two main problems that keep it from being a nice driver; [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > it kind of pisses me off that I seem to have a fully functional car and > I still can't (safely) drive it... Nate, I know you said that you changed the brake hoses but when I sold auto parts I saw a case where a guy had a bad new hose. It must have had a loose piece and acted as a flap on the inside, it was not visible and would lock up his brakes. I have seen where some people think that you should arc new brake shoes to fit the drum. We had an arcing machine but were told by Wagner brakes that it was not necessary to arc them. I suspect that this is do to newer brakes allowing only 60 to 90 thousands max to be cut from the drums and that it does not take much for the shoes to shape to what you have. |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.