Car Forum / Antique and Collectibles / Studebaker / September 2006
Missing the good old days......OT (sigh)
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Richard Lawler - 27 Apr 2006 15:44 GMT I remember the early days when I found this NG and thought I had found paradise. All these wonderful people that loved Studebakes as much, or even more, than I did all in one place talking about, what else, Studebakers. These were the salad days, and they were good. Then one day, someone decided to start taling poilitics on here. Some people liked it, some didn't. Thus the OT header was born. Before this time I considered absolutely every person on this NG a friend and people that I wanted to meet. Now some of the people that I respected most on this NG at that time won't even come around anymore because they have been so bullied by the OT posse, or they just don't want to deal with all the crap that hasn't anything to do with Studebakers. Miss 'ya Studebob, hope you're reading this. I come here for Studebakers. I have spoken up rather loudly on this recent OT thread for a few reasons. I have tried to avoid it, I really have. Musn't get dragged into the mire. Give me strength. Oh crap, here I go. Everyone is entitled to be stupid in this country. It's your right. That doesn't mean you have to excersise it though. I guess that's all I have to say. Just being nostalgic for when nobidy on here knew anybody else's politics and no one really cared because we were here to talk Studebakers. Maybe we'll get there again someday, but right now it feels like we've been cast out of the garden.
Richard Lawler
'57 1/2 ton Transtar '51 2dr Champion
TomNoller - 27 Apr 2006 16:17 GMT I agree, mostly, Richard, and have avoided the political talk so as not to chase true Stude enthusiasts away. Lord knows there are plenty of places on the web to vent. Sometimes politics enter the car world, with gas/oil prices and legislation that affects our hobby and it's tough not to slip into partisan rhetoric. Just being human, I guess. When I find a funny or interesting website that's not specific to Stude's, I'll use the 'OT' and hope it's not a waste of people's time. (I figure if it makes this gear-head laugh, others might like it, too.) I also know if I get stymied with a mechanical issue, I'll get help here. Don't give up on the 'ol NG, Richard. At our heart it's the Studebakers that bring us together and (to paraphrase Larry Swanson) it's the people that keep us together.
studebaker8@shaw.ca - 27 Apr 2006 19:59 GMT . Sometimes politics enter the car world, with gas/oil
> prices and legislation that affects our hobby and it's tough not to slip > into partisan rhetoric. It seems that how all the threads that do with politics start. Stude owner 'A' vents, and says he has to move 5 of his parts cars because his municipality institutes the 'Clunker Law'. Now owner 'B' adds to the tread and asks what makes a clunker a 'clunker'. Then someone else will enter a thread and go on about how the mayor, his congressman, or whoever is known to despise the old car hobby because he's a ________. Then someone else comes on as says his cars are 'okay' on his property because his congressman is a ________. And then it snowballs from there. Of course, we often repeat about the press which as we all know is not exactly free of political elements, either. It is a very easy mire to sink oneself into once the thread gets rolling...
Craig
Lee - 27 Apr 2006 16:21 GMT Well put, Richard. I, too, remember those days when we talked cars, kids, grandkids and general get-to-know you type stuff. Those, indeed, were the great days of this NG.
"Way back when" when we used to only have 40-50 posts per day (and they were relavant to the hobby) were much more enjoyable times on the NG. As it is now, I only read about 10% of what is posted due to the constant bickering and sniping of each other on the OT, political, or otherwise antagonistic threads. I really used to look forward to checking the NG but, now, it is more of a chore to weed out the crap in order to attempt to glean a few bits of Studebaker content.
We have lost many good members due to personality conflicts and that is a damned shame. There are volumes of good information out there we have alienated because we cannot check political or religious beliefs at the door. I honestly believe that 99% of the pissing matches we have in here would never happen face to face but, of course, here there is apparently no accountability for your actions.
>I remember the early days when I found this NG and thought I had found >paradise. All these wonderful people that loved Studebakes as much, or [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >'57 1/2 ton Transtar >'51 2dr Champion JoeH - 27 Apr 2006 16:56 GMT Richard,
As one who comes and goes in here I have to say that I appreciate this site tremendously. I'm sure you have a greater history in here than I do, but I have to say all you guys have been a tremendous help to me both when I ask questions and when I simply follow other threads. "Ask not what the NG can do for you.............." *g*
Anyway, hope you hang around. We're all getting one day older today.
Best, JoeH.
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>I remember the early days when I found this NG and thought I had found > paradise. All these wonderful people that loved Studebakes as much, or [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > '57 1/2 ton Transtar > '51 2dr Champion studegary - 27 Apr 2006 18:10 GMT Richard, and others - If you want to have all Studebaker subjects, sample the forums (general and technical) on the Studebaker Drivers Club web site. I used to be on this NG a lot, then, because of a small minority, I left the NG completely. Lately, I have looked at about 10% of the posts on the NG and respond to a very few of those. StudeBob, Nate and I are the biggest contributers on the SDC forums.
Jeff Rice - 27 Apr 2006 20:11 GMT (preface:... I am a supporter of the SDC forum. I do believe that the SDC forum SHOULD be moderated.. I also believe that this alt.autos.studebaker forum should NOT be moderated... Those that choose to spew here should be willing to stand up and take the return spew... Their choice.)
Gary, The same stuff goes on over there, too. Just not as bad, nor as far off subject. The political crap is not missed at all, but the puritism and bigotry have found a happy home there, to an extent. There have been times when Bob Shaw has had to pull the plug there too. (And if you left this NG completely.... How did you read this? Just curious <g>) Personalities aside, I find all of the forums have their charm, and their detractors. The detractors seem to move around a bit, just as in real life. Happiness is wherever you are...if you are happy. Searching for it can take some time, especially if you don't really want happiness, just shoulders. Not a slam, but a comment. Keeping stats isn't a good thing either. I would be suspect of the sanity of 3168 post's as compared to the next few... Jeff (and I include myself in that group, just to be fair <lol>) Rice
"studegary" wrote...
> Richard, and others - If you want to have all Studebaker subjects, > sample the forums (general and technical) on the Studebaker Drivers [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > posts on the NG and respond to a very few of those. StudeBob, Nate > and I are the biggest contributers on the SDC forums. Lee Aanderud - 27 Apr 2006 20:18 GMT Only forum I've found where this doesn't happen on a regular basis is the Yesterdays Tractors forum (http://www.ytmag.com/cgi-bin/boards.cgi).
But I see that they do have a section called: Politics, Tractor Wars and Controversial Conversations A place to talk about things the moderator usually deletes - not for gentle folk or children.
So I'm guessing that they ran into this in the past as well... I wonder if anyone there cares to hear my opinion on those subjects. <G> Maybe I better not.
Lee
> (preface:... I am a supporter of the SDC forum. I do believe that the > SDC forum SHOULD be moderated.. I also believe that this [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > *** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com *** Jeff Rice - 27 Apr 2006 20:32 GMT Club Hot Rod, and the H.A.M.B. have a separate area, which is great. Jeff (I never waste my time going over there <lol>) Rice
"Lee Aanderud" wrote...
> Only forum I've found where this doesn't happen on a regular basis is the > Yesterdays Tractors forum > But I see that they do have a section called: [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] >>> posts on the NG and respond to a very few of those. StudeBob, Nate >>> and I are the biggest contributers on the SDC forums. Lee Aanderud - 27 Apr 2006 20:48 GMT I looked at a few pages and this is kind of on topic: http://www.ytmag.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=ohtee&th=4896
Lee
> Club Hot Rod, and the H.A.M.B. have a separate area, which is great. > Jeff (I never waste my time going over there <lol>) Rice studegary - 28 Apr 2006 20:59 GMT (And if you left this NG completely.... How did you read this? Just curious <g>) Personalities aside, I find all of the forums have their charm, and their detractors. The detractors seem to move around a bit, just as in real life. Happiness is wherever you are...if you are happy. Searching for it can take some time, especially if you don't really want happiness, just shoulders. Not a slam, but a comment. Keeping stats isn't a good thing either. I would be suspect of the sanity of 3168 post's as compared to the next
few... Jeff (and I include myself in that group, just to be fair <lol>) Rice
"studegary" wrote...
> Richard, and others - If you want to have all Studebaker subjects, > sample the forums (general and technical) on the Studebaker Drivers [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > posts on the NG and respond to a very few of those. StudeBob, Nate > and I are the biggest contributers on the SDC forums. Jeff - Since you are "curious" as to how I "read this", please carefully re-read my previous post. You will see that I said that I returned and read about 10% of the posts.
JoeH - 28 Apr 2006 21:05 GMT "Happiness is wherever you are...if you are happy."
Took the words out of my mouth...if I'd thought of them first. *g*
Best, JoeH. ------------------------
> (And if you left this NG completely.... How did you read this? Just > curious [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > carefully re-read my previous post. You will see that I said that I > returned and read about 10% of the posts. Richard Lawler - 27 Apr 2006 20:17 GMT Well said Lee, glad to see I'm not alone here. Yeah, I have looked at the SDC forum, but it just isn't as easy to navigate as the NG. I should probably hang out there more. I have come and gone here, and this most recent time I've come back it was being nice and chill and staying either humorous or on topic. I had high hopes that people had learned that that stuff isn't doing us any good. By the way, I did get to meet Studebob at his place. Great guy, here's a picture of that meeting.
Richard Lawler
'57 1/2 ton Transtar '51 2dr Champion
Ron - 28 Apr 2006 00:15 GMT It's rare I lurk here now, just for this reason.
Too bad, I miss a lot of the fun, because It's buried in the crap.. I checked in today, and see I'm not the only one hating the horseshit that's posted here, and I find the SDC site more awkward. Life's too short. at least I'm out having fun instead of looking at this damned electronic box so much.
Ron ( and no, I won't check to responses to this)
a few of you guys and what all is
>Well said Lee, glad to see I'm not alone here. Yeah, I have looked at >the SDC forum, but it just isn't as easy to navigate as the NG. I [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >'57 1/2 ton Transtar >'51 2dr Champion Ron/Champ 6
1963 8E5 Champ (Champ 6) 1995 VW Passat (Vanilla..yuk) 1994 Volvo 850 (Tilley) 1973 Volvo 1800 ES (Hyacinth Bucket)
Pat Drnec - 27 Apr 2006 21:25 GMT Keep looking - maybe there's a forum out there where you are free to spread as much of your opinion as you like without having to put up with anyone else's. I've never found it, but who knows. Maybe Fox News has a forum?
This NG is still the paradise you describe, I'll help anybody out with Stude stuff if I can and I've always found answers to my myriad questions here. If Stude stuff is all you're interested in, OT is a warning you should heed. Especially if it's in the subject line of one of my posts, apparently.
I don't live in a vacuum, and neither do you. We all have opinions, especially political, and I like to think they wouldn't be nearly so heated if we didn't all love this country so much.
> I remember the early days when I found this NG and thought I had found > paradise. All these wonderful people that loved Studebakes as much, or [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > '57 1/2 ton Transtar > '51 2dr Champion
 Signature Remove all the x's to email.
The only label that fits: http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_6966.shtml
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -- WOW--What a Ride!!!" ----- Unknown
1953 Starlight Coupe 1954 Starlight Coupe R1/4-speed 1958 Silver Hawk 1960 Frua Italia Larks (2 - they're here!) 1962 Lark VI 1962 Lark Convertible 1963 Avanti R2 R4324 1963 Lark Cruiser (R2 3/4 clone in progress) 1963 GT Hawk 1963 Daytona Wagonaire 1964 Cruiser (Survivor) 1956 2E7 2004 Porsche Carrera 4S 2000 Ducati 748 2002 Jeep Overland http://homepage.mac.com/pdrnec/PhotoAlbum81.html
Richard Lawler - 27 Apr 2006 22:09 GMT See, that's the difference between you and I. I'm not here to spread my opinion. I'm sure Fox News has a forum, if you want to agitate people with your opinion, why don't you go there. That's what those forums are for. This is a Studebaker forum. And I think from now on I'll be keeping a close watch on the OT posts (especially yours) to keep you guys in check.
>Keep looking - maybe there's a forum out there where you are free to >spread as much of your opinion as you like without having to put up with [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] >> '57 1/2 ton Transtar >> '51 2dr Champion Richard Lawler
'57 1/2 ton Transtar '51 2dr Champion
Pat Drnec - 27 Apr 2006 22:44 GMT Wanna read over your posts of the past week and rethink that statement?
There's an old saying - the only way the dance will end is when somebody leaves the floor. If harmony is that important to you, just be quiet and there's no discord. If you want to jump in, don't complain about the noise.
Easy, eh?
> See, that's the difference between you and I. I'm not here to spread > my opinion.
 Signature Remove all the x's to email.
The only label that fits: http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_6966.shtml
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -- WOW--What a Ride!!!" ----- Unknown
1953 Starlight Coupe 1954 Starlight Coupe R1/4-speed 1958 Silver Hawk 1960 Frua Italia Larks (2 - they're here!) 1962 Lark VI 1962 Lark Convertible 1963 Avanti R2 R4324 1963 Lark Cruiser (R2 3/4 clone in progress) 1963 GT Hawk 1963 Daytona Wagonaire 1964 Cruiser (Survivor) 1956 2E7 2004 Porsche Carrera 4S 2000 Ducati 748 2002 Jeep Overland http://homepage.mac.com/pdrnec/PhotoAlbum81.html
Richard Lawler - 27 Apr 2006 23:04 GMT Nope, I said exactly what I meant. I was responding to opinion. And even more than that, I was defending my beliefs that I saw being attacked. I didn't attack anyone's opinion until they put it out here. Harmony is important to me. However, remaining silent when someone is attacking my beliefs is not something I care to do any longer. I will not wage a pre-emptive war. I will never post an OT post that is even remotely political, but as soon as you (or others like you) post your political crap that attacks what I believe I am going to be all over you like white on rice. I'd hate to think that some lurker would be watching and think that your opinions represent the opinions of the NG as a whole. In the past I've put up with that crap and just shook my head, but no more. If you want to keep spreading your opinion on here that's fine, but expect me to remain silent no more, and trust me, I know how to bring it.
>Wanna read over your posts of the past week and rethink that statement? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> See, that's the difference between you and I. I'm not here to spread >> my opinion. Richard Lawler
'57 1/2 ton Transtar '51 2dr Champion
Pat Drnec - 27 Apr 2006 23:39 GMT Sorry, you did attack - your uninformed diatribe about Carter, if I recall. I responded with extensive quotes and links to facts and you attacked with more opinion. If you don't back it up, it's opinion.
See, I pointed out that Carter voiced EXACTLY THE SAME SENTIMENT as Bush, but 30 years earlier. He could see that dependence on imported oil was a threat to national security, but conservatives (who abhorred the notion of conservation - go figure) did all they could to obstruct that path.
Now you call Carter an idiot while praising shrub for saying exactly the same thing. Your response to my facts was this:
"Oh Oh, looks like I touched the Carter nerve. I did say he was slightly better than WJC, I mean Carter never torched any Americans in their homes right? Of course, it's not too surprising that a president ruling over a country with gas lines (and facing losing a landslide election) might start talking about energy conservation. Jimmy turning down the therms was a great energy policy huh, really seemed to help. The difference between Carter and Clinton was Carter probably wanted to do some good for the country, he was just so inept he couldn't have found an elephant in a phone booth."
Can you help me find the fact in that diatribe?
Touching on related current events, your man is at it again - in the face of record profits for big oil while pump prices escalate daily, the Republican machine offers this: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/08/AR2005080800124_ pf.html 1.45 Billion in tax breaks for oil companies. What blows me away is that you defend this crap while it hurts you as much as anyone else. What in god's name would make so many people vote against your own best interests? As William Jefferson Clinton so eloquently put it: "If you want to live like a Republican, you should vote Democrat."
This is fun. In the words of your hero shrub, bring it on - but see if you can't capture a fact or two to support your 'opinions'. <G>
> Nope, I said exactly what I meant. I was responding to opinion. And > even more than that, I was defending my beliefs that I saw being [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > '57 1/2 ton Transtar > '51 2dr Champion
 Signature Remove all the x's to email.
The only label that fits: http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_6966.shtml
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -- WOW--What a Ride!!!" ----- Unknown
1953 Starlight Coupe 1954 Starlight Coupe R1/4-speed 1958 Silver Hawk 1960 Frua Italia Larks (2 - they're here!) 1962 Lark VI 1962 Lark Convertible 1963 Avanti R2 R4324 1963 Lark Cruiser (R2 3/4 clone in progress) 1963 GT Hawk 1963 Daytona Wagonaire 1964 Cruiser (Survivor) 1956 2E7 2004 Porsche Carrera 4S 2000 Ducati 748 2002 Jeep Overland http://homepage.mac.com/pdrnec/PhotoAlbum81.html
JoeH - 27 Apr 2006 23:56 GMT I recommend M16's at 5 paces. Ten rounds be enough? Of course it's easy for me to say. I'm a Canuck.
But speaking of Prez Carter, did you know his first car was also the first American car I ever saw. In fact, I own one today. If Sheldon Elias is listening he's the one who examined it for me in Florida about 5 years ago. Oh, yeah. That's my '48 Stude Commander. Carter's first automobile. You've gotta admit, if nothing else, the man had taste.
Best, JoeH.
--------------------------------------------
> Sorry, you did attack - your uninformed diatribe about Carter, if I > recall. I responded with extensive quotes and links to facts and you [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] >> '57 1/2 ton Transtar >> '51 2dr Champion 63t-cab - 28 Apr 2006 00:21 GMT Years ago I saw a picture of Carter's studebaker in a outbuilding on his property,in the news paper.I got the biggest kick out of that!
JoeH - 28 Apr 2006 00:22 GMT And to give George Bush Sr. his due, here's an excerpt from the biography of his wife:
"Simply Barbara Bush: A Portrait of America's Candid First Lady," by Donnie Radcliffe and published after Bush's 1988 election victory:........ "With $3,000 left over after he graduated in June, 1948, he (George Bush Sr.) headed for Texas in the 1947 red Studebaker (Commander) his father had given him for graduation after George's car died on the highway."
There you go. Both presidents riding around in Studebaker Commanders in the same year, 1948. What could be greater evidence that these men were the stuff of presidents. Nay, great presidents. In fact, I'm convinced they would have had the great taste to be driving Presidents had Studebaker made them in '47-'48.
Best, JoeH.
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>I recommend M16's at 5 paces. Ten rounds be enough? Of course it's easy for >me to say. I'm a Canuck. [quoted text clipped - 77 lines] >>> '57 1/2 ton Transtar >>> '51 2dr Champion Richard Lawler - 28 Apr 2006 00:59 GMT Yeah, I got to see Bush '41's Studebaker at his presidential library in College Station, TX. Well, it isn't actually the same one, but a super nice restoration of the same model. I think it was done by B.B. Holland, Barry could probably confirm that, but I am not sure. Okay, Carter had good taste in cars<G>.
>And to give George Bush Sr. his due, here's an excerpt from the biography of >his wife: [quoted text clipped - 96 lines] >>>> '57 1/2 ton Transtar >>>> '51 2dr Champion Richard Lawler
'57 1/2 ton Transtar '51 2dr Champion
John Poulos - 28 Apr 2006 00:31 GMT Pat, give it up please, you are not in L.A. on the NG. You and Richard are about as far apart politically as is possible. When you see "I'd hate to think that some lurker would be watching and think that your opinions represent the opinions of the NG as a whole." it should give you pause. Calling a Vietnam war hero a traitor because he later protested the war is OK, but question the present administration and you are a likely to drive off a new Studebaker guy. You may be among the majority in the country that disapproves of the way the country is headed, but not on here. You are a liberal, a new curse word to some, you disagree with the present administration, and you'd better learn to keep quite if you are to the left of Ann Coulter. <g>
BTW, I'll shut up again in hopes that you'll both go back to your respective corners.
> Sorry, you did attack - your uninformed diatribe about Carter, if I > recall. I responded with extensive quotes and links to facts and you [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] >> '57 1/2 ton Transtar >> '51 2dr Champion
 Signature JP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 63 Avanti R1 62 Lark 2 door 60 Hawk 53 Starlight
Pat Drnec - 28 Apr 2006 00:48 GMT Ann Coulter is a man.
Perhaps that will cause this errant thread to veer off in a whole new direction. <g>
> Pat, give it up please, you are not in L.A. on the NG. You and > Richard are about as far apart politically as is possible. When you see [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > BTW, I'll shut up again in hopes that you'll both go back to your > respective corners. John Poulos - 28 Apr 2006 00:55 GMT She's too skinny for my taste.
> Ann Coulter is a man. > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >> BTW, I'll shut up again in hopes that you'll both go back to your >> respective corners.
 Signature JP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 63 Avanti R1 62 Lark 2 door 60 Hawk 53 Starlight
Mark Dunning - 28 Apr 2006 01:41 GMT Well, she's a Hot Guy, then
Smart, too.
I haven't done the GYN check, but If there's a lottery to see who gets to do it, I'd buy a ticket.
BTW, Carter pissed me off for incompetence many many times. The guy has a genius level IQ, but that DOES NOT make him a good or great leader. He was a wishy washy appeaser.
I drove my Studebaker today.
Mark (Skinny, Conservative and Smart - nice combo!) Dunning
> Ann Coulter is a man. > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >> BTW, I'll shut up again in hopes that you'll both go back to your >> respective corners. Lee Aanderud - 28 Apr 2006 01:54 GMT > Ann Coulter is a man. You spend too much time in West Hollywood.
Lee
Richard Lawler - 28 Apr 2006 00:56 GMT Well said John. Thanks.
> Pat, give it up please, you are not in L.A. on the NG. You and >Richard are about as far apart politically as is possible. When you see [quoted text clipped - 82 lines] >>> '57 1/2 ton Transtar >>> '51 2dr Champion Richard Lawler
'57 1/2 ton Transtar '51 2dr Champion
Pat Drnec - 28 Apr 2006 01:53 GMT lmao - is it possible you don't even recognize when you're being poked fun at?
> Well said John. Thanks. > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >> BTW, I'll shut up again in hopes that you'll both go back to your >> respective corners. Richard Lawler - 28 Apr 2006 02:43 GMT I guess I just wanted to believe that John was trying to return this to a civil tone. Silly me. But yeah, after re-reading it I realize I was mistaken. He was just stirring the pot some more. Thing is Pat. I don't believe you are the type of person that would come on a STUDEBAKER group and start bashing someone else's religion or race. However, you seem to think it is perfectly acceptable to come on here and bash someone's political views and then act all aghast when someone says, "Bulls*** my God is better than your God." Get a grip.
>lmao - is it possible you don't even recognize when you're being poked >fun at? [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >>> BTW, I'll shut up again in hopes that you'll both go back to your >>> respective corners. Richard Lawler
'57 1/2 ton Transtar '51 2dr Champion
Alex Magdaleno - 28 Apr 2006 05:19 GMT I think it you check back over the years here, it is the liberals who get their beliefs ridiculed much more often that the other way around.
>I guess I just wanted to believe that John was trying to return this > to a civil tone. Silly me. But yeah, after re-reading it I realize I [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > '57 1/2 ton Transtar > '51 2dr Champion
 Signature NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth
Grumpy AuContraire - 28 Apr 2006 01:52 GMT > snip
> Calling a Vietnam war hero a traitor because he later protested the > war is OK, but question the present administration and you are a likely > to drive off a new Studebaker guy. He's a traitor because his direct activity with the North Vietnamese in Paris. Clearly, had this country been following the rule of law, he could have been (and I wish he was) shot.
Kerry has been nothing but a calculating sleazebag since his abbreviated RVN tour where most of his so called hero crap was also contrived.
Then there is the question of his post war record which begs the question, "WTF has he ever accomplished?"
JT
Pat Drnec - 28 Apr 2006 01:58 GMT > snip > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > JT What has Bush accomplished? Here's his resume - tongue in cheek for sure, but damn, there's a lot of truth:
Search Political Humor Political Humor George W. Bush's Resume
George W. Bush (Dubya) The White House 1600 Pennsylvania Ave., NW Washington, D.C. 20500
Past Work Experience
* Ran for congress and lost. * Produced a Hollywood slasher B movie. * Bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas; company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock. * Bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using taxpayer money. Biggest move: Traded Sammy Sosa to the Chicago White Sox. * With father's help (and his name) was elected Governor of Texas.
Accomplishments in Previous Positions
* Changed pollution laws for power and oil companies and made Texas the most polluted state in the Union. * Replaced Los Angeles with Houston as the most smog-ridden city in America. Cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas government to the tune of billions in borrowed money. * Set record for most executions by any governor in American history. * Became president after losing the popular vote by over 500,000 votes, with the help of my father's appointments to the Supreme Court.
Accomplishments As President
* Attacked and took over two countries. * Spent the surplus and bankrupted the treasury. * Shattered record for biggest annual deficit in history. * Set economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month period. * Set all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market. * First president in decades to execute a federal prisoner. * First president in U.S. history to enter office with a criminal record. * First year in office set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any president in U.S. history. * After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, presided over the worst security failure in U.S. history. * Set the record for most campaign fundraising trips than any other president in U.S. history. * In my first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their job. * Cut unemployment benefits for more out of work Americans than any president in U.S. history. * Set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period. * Appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in U.S. history. * Set the record for the least amount of press conferences than any president since the advent of television. * Signed more laws and executive orders amending the Constitution than any president in U.S. history. * Presided over the biggest energy crises in U.S. history and refused to intervene when corruption was revealed. * Presided over the highest gasoline prices in U.S. history and refused to use the national reserves as past presidents have. * Cut healthcare benefits for war veterans. * Set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets to protest me (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind. * Dissolved more international treaties than any president in U.S. history. * My presidency is the most secretive and unaccountable of any in U.S. history. * Members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in U.S. history (the 'poorest' multimillionaire, Condoleezza Rice, has an Exxon oil tanker named after her). * First president in U.S. history to have all 50 states of the Union simultaneously go bankrupt. * Presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud of any market in any country in the history of the world. * First president in U.S. history to order a U.S. attack and military occupation of a sovereign nation. * Created the largest government department bureaucracy in the history of the United States. * Set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any president in U.S. history. * First president in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove the U.S. from the human rights commission. * First president in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove the U.S. from the elections monitoring board. * Removed more checks and balances, and have the least amount of congressional oversight than any presidential administration in U.S. history. * Rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant. * Withdrew from the World Court of Law. * Refused to allow inspectors access to U.S. prisoners of war and by default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions. * First president in U.S. history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 U.S. elections). * All-time U.S. (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations. * My biggest lifetime campaign contributor presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation). * Spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in U.S. history. * First president in U.S. history to unilaterally attack a sovereign nation against the will of the United Nations and the world community. * First president to run and hide when the U.S. came under attack (and then lied saying the enemy had the code to Air Force 1) * First U.S. president to establish a secret shadow government. * Took the biggest world sympathy for the U.S. after 9/11, and in less than a year made the U.S. the most resented country in the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in U.S. and world history). * With a policy of 'disengagement' created the most hostile Israeli-Palestine relations in at least 30 years. * Fist U.S. president in history to have a majority of the people of Europe (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and stability. * First U.S. president in history to have the people of South Korea more threatened by the U.S. than their immediate neighbor, North Korea. * Changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts. * Set all-time record for number of administration appointees who violated U.S. law by not selling huge investments in corporations bidding for government contracts. * Failed to fulfill my pledge to get Osama Bin Laden 'dead or alive.' * Failed to capture the anthrax killer who tried to murder the leaders of our country at the United States Capital building. After 18 months I have no leads and zero suspects. * In the 18 months following the 9/11 attacks I have successfully prevented any public investigation into the biggest security failure in the history of the United States. * Removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other president in U.S. history. * In a little over two years created the most divided country in decades, possibly the most divided the U.S. has ever been since the Civil War. * Entered office with the strongest economy in U.S. history and in less than two years turned every single economic category heading straight down.
Records and References
* At least one conviction for drunk driving in Maine (Texas driving record has been erased and is not available) * AWOL from National Guard and deserted the military during a time of war. * Refuse to take drug test or even answer any questions about drug use. * All records of my tenure as governor of Texas have been spirited away to my father's library, sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view. * All records of any SEC investigations into my insider trading or bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view. * All minutes of meetings for any public corporation I served on the board are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view. * Any records or minutes from meetings I (or my VP) attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public review. * For personal references please speak to my daddy or uncle James Baker (they can be reached at their offices of the Carlyle Group for war-profiteering.)
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"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -- WOW--What a Ride!!!" ----- Unknown
1953 Starlight Coupe 1954 Starlight Coupe R1/4-speed 1958 Silver Hawk 1960 Frua Italia Larks (2 - they're here!) 1962 Lark VI 1962 Lark Convertible 1963 Avanti R2 R4324 1963 Lark Cruiser (R2 3/4 clone in progress) 1963 GT Hawk 1963 Daytona Wagonaire 1964 Cruiser (Survivor) 1956 2E7 2004 Porsche Carrera 4S 2000 Ducati 748 2002 Jeep Overland http://homepage.mac.com/pdrnec/PhotoAlbum81.html
Lee Aanderud - 28 Apr 2006 02:01 GMT I'd be interested to see your resume, Mr. Red Bull. Don't you have a brother in England who's some big shot Red Bull executive? Bet that didn't help you get where you are. What did you do prior to getting handed this job?
Lee
> > snip > > [quoted text clipped - 180 lines] > Baker (they can be reached at their offices of the Carlyle Group for > war-profiteering.) Jeff Rice - 28 Apr 2006 03:02 GMT That is a cheap shot Lee, and you know it. Why don't you just do what he did and go to the GOP version of their talking point website and cut and paste the whole thing and post it with a nana-nana-boo-boo comment. It is just too easy not to answer a direct question, but reply with a 'So what has your guy done' response. Both parties, their candidate, their nominee's, their winners, and their losers, are all pretty lame. But blaming everyone else is just as lame. If you lost... Work at getting your guy elected. Just do it with class and style. If you can't do that.. You become as bad as them and it explains a lot about the person. If you won... Get your friggin' a.s to work to keep the promises you made, and do a good job of it. Don't gloat, or you look as bad as the loser. You'd best show some class... Jeff
"Lee Aanderud" wrote...
> I'd be interested to see your resume, Mr. Red Bull. Don't you have a > brother in England who's some big shot Red Bull executive? Bet that [quoted text clipped - 189 lines] >> Baker (they can be reached at their offices of the Carlyle Group for >> war-profiteering.) Dick S. - 28 Apr 2006 04:03 GMT Well, I WAS looking forward to South Bend.. ;-P Dick S.
> That is a cheap shot Lee, and you know it. > Why don't you just do what he did and go to the GOP version of their [quoted text clipped - 218 lines] > > *** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com *** Dick S. - 28 Apr 2006 04:08 GMT Oh, and what political sticker is correct for a Studebaker? Don't want to lose points, you know. Dick So.
> Well, I WAS looking forward to South Bend.. > ;-P [quoted text clipped - 223 lines] >> >> *** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com *** Jeff Rice - 28 Apr 2006 12:15 GMT You missed my point Dick. I wasn't taking a side with either Pat, or Lee. I was pointing out that Lee reverts to attacking the man personally because he now hates his guts because of what he wrote. I see potential friendships torn apart because someone feels a side 'must' be taken and battle lines 'must' be drawn. How childish. My comments about the parties and their candidates stands true. If you can't run good candidates that can win because of the system you set up.... What do you expect? If your candidate is going to get X% because your trained partisan is going to vote that way no matter what? Why bother getting a truly good candidate. Get one you can train, or mold, or manipulate. I am not just talking about the top. I am talking about the whole damned lot of them. We, as citizens have only ourselves to blame for this. We don't want to go and do the job, so we send people to do it for us. Now we don't even want to watch them closely. We just want goodies. That was not how this country was set up. (And I won't even go into religion in politics here, but that is also a huge part of the problem)... WTH does South Bend have to do with anything? And what points are to be gained and lost where? I don't get it. Jeff
"Dick S." wrote...
> Oh, and what political sticker is correct for a Studebaker? > Don't want to lose points, you know. > Dick So.
> "Dick S."wrote... >> Well, I WAS looking forward to South Bend.. >> ;-P >> Dick S.
>> "Jeff Rice" wrote... >>> That is a cheap shot Lee, and you know it. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >>> You'd best show some class... >>> Jeff
>>> "Lee Aanderud" wrote... >>>> I'd be interested to see your resume, Mr. Red Bull. Don't you have a >>>> brother in England who's some big shot Red Bull executive? Bet that >>>> didn't help you get where you are. What did you do prior to getting >>>> handed this job? >>>> Lee JoeH - 28 Apr 2006 13:27 GMT Speaking of today's candidates, back in Abe Lincoln's day, a member of his cabinet would have to take an enormous cut in pay to take on the government job. In fact, one of them nearly went bankrupt for the privilege of serving his nation. Therein lies the rub. How many think of themselves as 'servants' of the people nowadays?
Sorry, I didn't mean to butt in on this with actual political talk. But if any of you are interested in a great book describing the politics of Lincoln's cabinet during the Civil War, I totally recommend reading 'Team of Rivals' by Doris Kearns Goodwin. It won the Pulitzer. It shows the personalities, their backgrounds, their politics, and their times in vivid and warm detail. After I put the book down, my immediate question was, 'Where did such people go?' That would be the topic of another book for someone.
Anyway, I'm now off this off-topic. Just wanted to mention this little bit.
Best, JoeH.
> You missed my point Dick. > I wasn't taking a side with either Pat, or Lee. [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] >>>>> handed this job? >>>>> Lee Alex Magdaleno - 30 Apr 2006 05:04 GMT I've heard the reviews and it sounds like a great book. He picked the best men he could find and he knew that one of them at least, hated him and bad mouthed him all the time. He still picked him. None of our politicians from either party would do that today.
> Speaking of today's candidates, back in Abe Lincoln's day, a member of his > cabinet would have to take an enormous cut in pay to take on the [quoted text clipped - 79 lines] >>>>>> handed this job? >>>>>> Lee
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John Poulos - 28 Apr 2006 14:14 GMT Now that hits the nail on the head.
> I am not just talking about the top. I am talking about the whole damned lot > of them. > We, as citizens have only ourselves to blame for this. Snip
> Jeff > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] >>>>>handed this job? >>>>>Lee
 Signature JP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (White) 63 Avanti R1 62 Lark 2 door 60 Hawk 53 Starlight
Grumpy AuContraire - 28 Apr 2006 16:09 GMT snip
> WTH does South Bend have to do with anything? Doesn't the river that flows through it go in the "wrong" direction??
<G>
JT
Mel - 28 Apr 2006 16:41 GMT (snipped from previous post):
WTH does South Bend have to do with anything?
STUDEBAKERS! thank God!
Alex Magdaleno - 30 Apr 2006 05:05 GMT Very good points Jeff.
> You missed my point Dick. > I wasn't taking a side with either Pat, or Lee. [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] >>>>> handed this job? >>>>> Lee
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midlant@earthlink.net - 01 May 2006 03:16 GMT > Oh, and what political sticker is correct for a Studebaker? "Back our boys in "Nam" is the obvious answer. (I had "Negotiate, Hell! Fight in Vietnam" in the back window of my GT.)
Karl
(Of course, that one today might make things a bit touchy when I go to MCAS Miramar for my meds!)
Mark Dunning - 09 Sep 2006 23:33 GMT I Like Ike?
MD
> Oh, and what political sticker is correct for a Studebaker? > Don't want to lose points, you know. [quoted text clipped - 228 lines] >>> >>> *** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com *** Barry - 10 Sep 2006 00:14 GMT Ike, The "hero" of Budapest? yuk! I can truthfully say that I like Ike better that Hitlery Klinton! BH
> I Like Ike? > [quoted text clipped - 263 lines] > http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups > ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- Jeffrey DeWitt - 10 Sep 2006 04:51 GMT > Ike, The "hero" of Budapest? yuk! > I can truthfully say that I like Ike better that Hitlery Klinton! [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >>>Don't want to lose points, you know. >>>Dick So. < BIG OL SNIP >
How about "AUH20"?
Jeff DeWitt
karinhall - 10 Sep 2006 14:29 GMT >> Ike, The "hero" of Budapest? yuk! >> I can truthfully say that I like Ike better that Hitlery Klinton! [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Jeff DeWitt Make that - AuH2O :)
Jeffrey DeWitt - 10 Sep 2006 14:42 GMT >>>Ike, The "hero" of Budapest? yuk! >>> I can truthfully say that I like Ike better that Hitlery Klinton! [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Make that - AuH2O :) Or how about "AuH20 08" <G>
Jeff DeWitt
ConcreteGuy - 28 Apr 2006 20:58 GMT Read this OT stuff just blows me away...Boy do the opinions fly...I had to say you come close in your views Jeff and you do it with class...Right on...
Gas here is down to $ 119.9/litre today...4.5 litres makes a Canadian gal...Just to cloud the issue some...
Lansing
>That is a cheap shot Lee, and you know it. >Why don't you just do what he did and go to the GOP version of their talking [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >You'd best show some class... >Jeff snipped a lot>>>>>>>>>>>>
JoeH - 28 Apr 2006 02:21 GMT Pat, I have only one question that is *OT* to this conversation.
Where the hell do you keep all your cars?
Best, JoeH.
---------------------------------------
> > snip > > [quoted text clipped - 180 lines] > Baker (they can be reached at their offices of the Carlyle Group for > war-profiteering.) Pat Drnec - 28 Apr 2006 02:43 GMT Right now, 5 at my warehouse (the ones I'm working on or close to it), 2 at the paint shop, 8 at a smaller warehouse about 10 miles away (either runners or waiting their turn).
> Pat, I have only one question that is *OT* to this conversation. > > Where the hell do you keep all your cars? > > Best, JoeH.
 Signature Remove all the x's to email.
The only label that fits: http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_6966.shtml
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -- WOW--What a Ride!!!" ----- Unknown
1953 Starlight Coupe 1954 Starlight Coupe R1/4-speed 1958 Silver Hawk 1960 Frua Italia Larks (2 - they're here!) 1962 Lark VI 1962 Lark Convertible 1963 Avanti R2 R4324 1963 Lark Cruiser (R2 3/4 clone in progress) 1963 GT Hawk 1963 Daytona Wagonaire 1964 Cruiser (Survivor) 1956 2E7 2004 Porsche Carrera 4S 2000 Ducati 748 2002 Jeep Overland http://homepage.mac.com/pdrnec/PhotoAlbum81.html
Richard Lawler - 28 Apr 2006 00:54 GMT Well, okay, maybe Carter could find an elephant in a phone booth if he had some help, but the rest of that looks spot on to me. And once again, you are mistaken, this is clearly a response. It is an attack, but this was a response to the attacks, to try and put things in a little perspective. Bush may not be your cup of tea, but JEEZ at least he's not Carter! Why then didn't your boy Slick willie take some of Carter's advice and do something in the way of a national energy policy during his eight years (thank's to Ross Perot)? Oh I know....never mind. You Libs like to make a big deal about the eight minutes Bush didn't do anything when he found out about the attacks on 9/11 while never thinking to ask what was Slick WIllie doing for eight YEARS. Once again, never mind we all know. In case you've forgotten the first trade center bombing was in '93. Thing about Bush is, I don't feel in the slightest that his policies are hurting me. Inflation is low, unemployment is low, new home sales are up, consumer confidence is up (highest in four years), I really liked that $400 check he sent me a few years ago (bought some Stude parts with that!), student loan interest rates are the lowest they have ever been, and he has completely exposed the left for who they are and what they stand for. All the way up and down my block people are having home renovations done, buying new cars, and getting new appliances. Yeah, times is tough ain't it. I know that's probably a few too many facts for you to take all at once, but that's how it is. The thing about the Slick WIllie quote you use there, that's the whole problem. If you want to live like a Republican (or at least how you Dems seem to think we all live. I've been a conservative even when I didn't have money to eat. That was when a Clinton was in office by the way.), you should get out there and work for it. I don't want my party to give me anything, or more precisely I don't want them to force someone else (that worked for it) to give me something for not doing anything other than voting them into office. The Dems are not going to give you or me a damn thing anyway. They are just going to take it from someone else and then they might give you something after taking a cut for themselves.
>Sorry, you did attack - your uninformed diatribe about Carter, if I >recall. I responded with extensive quotes and links to facts and you [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] >> '57 1/2 ton Transtar >> '51 2dr Champion Richard Lawler
'57 1/2 ton Transtar '51 2dr Champion
Mel - 28 Apr 2006 16:38 GMT You guys are killing me! :) I thought Richard's original post was on target and agreed. I used to be on here daily (mostly lurking, as I don't have anything to add technically about studes, just drive one). I stopped long ago, as it is so very different from 10 years ago when I first checked it out. But it when I began reading a few of the responses, this whole post went right to exactly what Richard was saying he was sick of........kinda funny,,,,but really not as it's all so divisive and not Stude realted. Nothing wrong with talking polictics, religion, etc....but I used to visit a group established for such topics when I wanted to discuss such. Not to say I've never been sucked into a few of the O.T. threads, but soon came to realize, it was making not like some folks I'd never even met and I don't believe it's good idea to form your opinion of a person from behind a keyboard. yep, the NG was much better in the ol' days, and even back then, I bet all the folks participating has varying political/religious ideas....they just didn't feel the need to convince everyone else who drives a Stude to agree with 'em. So, not that any of you would even notice if I was here or not, I don't often even lurk anymore cuz I don't have the patience to wade thru all the bull. And several of the folks I enjoyed most have given it up! But I'm very glad that I was here daily for a while, cuz Danny & I have made some great friends only because of this place....therefore, it's not all bad, it's just currently on the down-swing. I will continue to lurk occassionally, and hope some day to see the NG swing back to the fun place it used to be. In the meantime, have at it boys!
and now ON TOPIC, danny's about got my Champ ready to travel to South Bend next week after it's long winter nap! Can't wait to see those of you who will be there!!!
have a great weekend all! mel
Richard Lawler - 28 Apr 2006 20:36 GMT That's exactly what I am saying Mel. You want to bash someone's religion, race, sexual-orientation, politics, etc. There are plenty of places on the web you can do that. Why do it here. And frankly, this idea that Pat, JP, and Alex are on the defensive on here is mind boggling to me. If they were serious about it, they would would say, "I won't bash anyone's politics on here untill someone bashes mine." like I have said.
>You guys are killing me! :) I thought Richard's original post was on >target and agreed. I used to be on here daily (mostly lurking, as I [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >have a great weekend all! >mel Richard Lawler
'57 1/2 ton Transtar '51 2dr Champion
Dave Lester - 28 Apr 2006 22:22 GMT > So, not that any of you would even notice if I was here or not, We notice, Mel! Just over a week ago I was about to ask about you, because I hadn't seen you around for a while. Next download of posts, there ya were!
Don't give up on us completely!
 Signature Dave Lester www.davesplaceinc.com
am not r2 - 29 Apr 2006 01:34 GMT simple people talk about people, smart people talk about current events, brilliant people talk about Ideas. (not sure who to credit this to, but it isn't mine:() does anybody know how to make my car go faster? Rich
Jeff Rice - 30 Apr 2006 18:36 GMT Two ways on how to make your Stude go faster.... 1)Altitude. 2) Gravity
"am not r2" wrote...
> simple people talk about people, smart people talk about current > events, brilliant people talk about Ideas. (not sure who to credit this > to, but it isn't mine:() > does anybody know how to make my car go faster? Rich Grumpy AuContraire - 01 May 2006 01:57 GMT I thought that was for Pintos???
<G>
JT
> Two ways on how to make your Stude go faster.... > 1)Altitude. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > *** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com *** midlant@earthlink.net - 01 May 2006 03:26 GMT Jeff, I think that the quote read "events", not current events." "Current events" too often leads to talking about people. "Events" may lead to people, too, but at least there is less fever involved, unless Jesus or other religious folks are involved..
Karl
Mertz Racing - 02 May 2006 12:28 GMT because is posts were aften times hilarious,I miss the "black helos".And I miss the days when people HELPED each other. And if you step up and give someone a hand it was because they really NEEDED that help instead of them trying to exploit the helper for whatever twisted scam they are trying to perpatrate. I miss the innocense of youth,but accept the responsibilties of age. I miss cheap gas,and bias ply tires that really smoked and made noise when you burned em off.
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