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Car Forum / Antique and Collectibles / Studebaker / October 200654 V 8 overheating
I have recently had my 54 commader V-8 232ci engine completely rebuilt. It runs great, probaly has about 1000 miles on it. During normal driving on the freeway the temp gauge reads in the lower 1/3 of the scale. A week or so back we were at a car show waiting in line to register the weather was very hot about 100 degrees. We were at an idle for about 10 minutes and the temp gauge pinned toward the HOT side and the engine overheated. I shut it down and let it cool about 6 hours before restarting and all was good. Question is, is this normal? or should I consider replacing the 4 blade fan with a 6 blade. The radiator was redone about 4 years ago and a new sender unit and thermostat was installed. I just recently added some water wetter but have not driven the car enought to see if that works. Also what are your thoughts on distilled water vs tap. I am using tap in my 58 Edsel and it seems fine. I recently put a 6 blade fan on it and changed the mixture of coolant from 50/50 to about 30/70 and it helped cool down that engine also using water wetter in the edsel motor. Your Thoughts Mark Have it checked with a laser probe, make sure it really is overheating and that the sender and/or gage isn't giving a false reading. First thing I do with my cars is have the radiator redone with 4 rows, So Cal temps plus stop n go tend to heat things up. > I have recently had my 54 commader V-8 232ci engine completely rebuilt. > It runs great, probaly has about 1000 miles on it. During normal [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Your Thoughts Mark  SignatureRemove the studebaker to email. The only label that fits: http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_6966.shtml "Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1908 1953 Starlight Coupe 1954 Starlight Coupe R1/4-speed 1958 Silver Hawk 1960 Frua Italia Larks (2 - they're here!) 1962 Lark VI 1962 Lark Convertible 1963 Avanti R2 R4324 1963 Lark Cruiser (R2 3/4 clone in progress) 1963 GT Hawk 1963 Daytona Wagonaire 1964 Cruiser (Survivor) 1954 3R11 1956 2E7 2004 Porsche Carrera 4S 2000 Ducati 748 2002 Jeep Overland http://homepage.mac.com/pdrnec/PhotoAlbum81.html I recently drove my 55 Commander in a parade that was going very slow and it got to the top of the white bar which is much hotter than it has ever run. Didn't boil over though. As soon as the parade was over I took it out on the freeway and after about a mile at 60 mph it was down to the lower end of the white bar and hasn't shown any signs of heating since. I am seriously considering installing a 6 volt fan ahead of the radiator. The car is still running very well on 6 volts. Max Rad in Portland, Oregon has a 14 inch 6 volt fan, 15 inches overall by 2 inches thick that they sell for $89.00. With that fan and either a manual switch or a thermostatic switch, running in parades or sitting with the engine running wouldn't be a problem. Max Rad's phone number is (503) 777-4706. > I have recently had my 54 commader V-8 232ci engine completely rebuilt. > It runs great, probaly has about 1000 miles on it. During normal [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Your Thoughts Mark Mark, My thoughts and my experience are that you can put a 20 blade fan on your Commander and it will still run warm in the condition you describe. The C's and K's are so tightly cowled that there just isn't adequate under hood heat extraction on a hot day while sitting in traffic or moving slowly. As soon as you are able to increase the speed to 35 plus, they cool down. If there's a fix, I haven't found it. Jack >>I have recently had my 54 commader V-8 232ci engine completely rebuilt. >>It runs great, probaly has about 1000 miles on it. During normal [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Jack This is a bit of creative reengineering but if a better fan and radiator aren't enough how about a rigging up a pump to spray water on the radiator? If it was done carefully it could be almost unnoticeable but in a situation like described it might be enough to keep the engine from overheating. Jeff DeWitt http://www.radcapproducts.com/mister.html >>>I have recently had my 54 commader V-8 232ci engine completely rebuilt. >>>It runs great, probaly has about 1000 miles on it. During normal [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > Jeff DeWitt DO NOT use distilled water!... especially if you have had the engine rebuilt. Distilled water is known as 'hungry water'. It will suck corrosion out of the block and stay rusty looking. Use purified water. In Florida, I use only a quart of antifreeze and two bottles of red line water wetter. Are you using a thermostat? In hot running situations without a thermostat, the coolant runs thru the radiator too quickly to shed the heat. A thermostat will slow the flow and permit the water to cool. >I have recently had my 54 commader V-8 232ci engine completely rebuilt. > It runs great, probaly has about 1000 miles on it. During normal [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Your Thoughts Mark Hmmm....here's another take... I've used nothing but distiled water...and working well I might add. Since Antifreeze does not actually help cool....I only use about a half gallon (in the cars) for a water pump seal lube and for it's anti-corrosion properties. As far as "Water Wetter"...never again! I've used it in two bikes and two cars...both ran "hotter" thAn without it. Not by much...but they all ran hotter. And just a simple flush will not remove the salts left by the "Water Wetter". You have to flush it a few times. Also for what it may be worth...I've forgotten why, but years ago I read an FAA (aircraft) bulletin, they do "not" allow any of the Water Wetter type additives in water cooled aircraft. If you look at the water jacket surfaces after using it for a while, the inner surfaces are white (or off white). This was part (some that I remember!) of the FAA decision, is that it does actually attract the water to the hottest surfaces (as designed), but it also puts a coating on the surfaces that act as a thermal barrier to not let the block (& heads) material help act as a heat transfer material like they would normally. As for your running hot...as others have said, most any car without a high flow electric fan would run as yours did. Since it cooled right down after a short spin on the freeway, as long as there's no massive boil over, I wouldn't worry too much. Also as others have said, use the hand heald temp. gages or stick an automotive type mechanical gauge in the system to verify what your engine is doing. As far as buying an electric fan...be wary of the "thin" bladed type fans...they don't push/pull enough air for the money spent. Mike Uh, distilled water is as pure as water can get. I have always used distilled water for cooling purposes and most auto manufacturers recommend its use. JT > DO NOT use distilled water!... especially if you have had the engine > rebuilt. Distilled water is known as 'hungry water'. It will suck [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > > > Your Thoughts Mark Seems to me spraying water on the radiator would mess up a nice engine compartment Bob Whiten Wagonmaster http://community.webtv.net/zzbob/StudebakersandMore Yeah... Don't need any added incentive for "rust." <G> JT > Seems to me spraying water on the radiator would mess up a nice engine > compartment > > Bob Whiten > Wagonmaster > http://community.webtv.net/zzbob/StudebakersandMore > Yeah... Don't need any added incentive for "rust." > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > And after you do all that has been suggested to take care of the heating problem, the car will still get hot sitting in traffic on a 100 degree day. Jack > > Seems to me spraying water on the radiator would mess up a nice engine > > compartment > > > > Bob Whiten > > Wagonmaster > > http://community.webtv.net/zzbob/StudebakersandMore > > Yeah... Don't need any added incentive for "rust." > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Jack The only way to minimize overheating in a Stude is to install a viscous drive fan, maintain a clean radiator and ensure that on c/k models, that flexible deflector above the radiator is in place. Three and four row radiators help but only if the rest of the system is in top notch condition. A shroud on Larks is a plus as well. JT > > > Yeah... Don't need any added incentive for "rust." > > > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > JT Hi JT, That is an accurate statement: " minimize overheating" as opposed to prevent overheating. I have done all that has been discussed here on my GT including viscous drive fans and 3 core and heavy duty 4 core radiators. You can run the car as fast and hard as you want and it will never run hotter than 100 degrees above ambient sometimes even less. However if it gets dead stopped in traffic on a hot day the temp. will eventially start creeping up. Although it has never boiled over or anything like that, it eventially gets warm enough to vapor lock. This is with insulated fuel lines, cold air induction, phenolic (? how do you spell that) carb spacer, R 2 intake gaskets with a very small hole in both heat passages, dual electric fuel pumps, and no heat riser valve. One very warm day, I was servicing the A/C on the Hawk in my shop. It was running 1200 - 1500 RPM's for a long time with the hood open. The temperature stayed normal. Only when I closed the hood did the temp start to climb. Jack Thanks for all the help. I think for now I will leave it alone as it is running great. Mark > > > > Yeah... Don't need any added incentive for "rust." > > > > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > Jack > > > > Yeah... Don't need any added incentive for "rust." > > > > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > Jack That's why that little flex deflector attached to the radiator support is so important on c/k's. If it's missing (as it is on my Power Hawk), air that would be normally forced through the radiator bypasses by going above it. On the sedans, that "open" space does not exist and the problem is less severe. OTOH, my truck which has an original three row radiator with a '64 GT power train with PowerShift never comes close to overheating. It also has the five bladed/viscous drive unit. In fact, I have even given some thought to putting a 180° thermostat so that I have more heat in the winter even here in central Texas. But that won't be happening since it should be eBay bound in the next few weeks... JT > > > > > Yeah... Don't need any added incentive for "rust." > > > > > [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > JT Yes, the flexible deflector on the radiator support is in place and in good condition on the GT. Jack > > > > > > Yeah... Don't need any added incentive for "rust." > > > > > > [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > > Jack I have one to put on the Power Hawk but have never gotten around to it. Hopefully, I'll get it done this winter along with getting the radiator re-cored. I guess that it's time after fifty years... JT Ok Guys here is what I did. I followed some of the advice given and here are the results. Tell me if this sounds normal. 70/30 mix of tap water and coolant and 1 jar of water wetter. I let the car heat up in the driveway with the radiator cap on and hood closed. when the temp guage got to the half way I used a lazer temp thingy and the results are. At the point where the sender unit is 185 degrees. at the throat of the radiator 200 degrees. Does this comport. Also tell me some more about the flap above the radiator. This car just has a metal shroud that covers the fan area. Thank for your help. Mark > > > > > Yeah... Don't need any added incentive for "rust." > > > > > [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > JT Ok Guys here is what I did. I followed some of the advice given and here are the results. Tell me if this sounds normal. 70/30 mix of tap water and coolant and 1 jar of water wetter. I let the car heat up in the driveway with the radiator cap on and hood closed. when the temp guage got to the half way I used a lazer temp thingy and the results are. At the point where the sender unit is 185 degrees. at the throat of the radiator 200 degrees. Does this comport. Also tell me some more about the flap above the radiator. This car just has a metal shroud that covers the fan area. Thank for your help. Mark > > > > > Yeah... Don't need any added incentive for "rust." > > > > > [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > JT Without looking at the set-up closely, closing the hood so that the fan drew more air through the radiator may have made it cooler, as long as the rubber flap was there so sort of make a seal with the hood. Karl > Ok Guys here is what I did. I followed some of the advice given and > here are the results. Tell me if this sounds normal. [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > > > > JT Ok; Tell me some more about the flex deflector on the radiator. What does it look like and does it have a part #? Would I see it in the chassis parts catalog? Mark On Oct 7, 7:06 pm, "midl...@earthlink.net" <midl...@earthlink.net> wrote: > Without looking at the set-up closely, closing the hood so that the fan > drew more air through the radiator may have made it cooler, as long as [quoted text clipped - 76 lines] > > > > JT- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - I don't think that '55 and down have one. These (I think) were only used on Hawk models. JT > Ok; Tell me some more about the flex deflector on the radiator. What > does it look like and does it have a part #? Would I see it in the [quoted text clipped - 84 lines] > > > > > > JT- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - Gee, I think that you got me there, now that I thnk of it.. The only Pre-hawk C/K I had was a crash-damaged '54 Champ K that I dropped onto a '57C frame / running gear in the mid-1960's. Karl > Ok; Tell me some more about the flex deflector on the radiator. What > does it look like and does it have a part #? Would I see it in the [quoted text clipped - 84 lines] > > > > > > JT- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - A shroud on the Lark works unbeleiveably well. It doesn't look like it should work but there is alot more airflow behind the fan then without it If the shroud were used on all the OHV6's maybe there would have been fewer head problems. If you look at most newer vehicles they also have flexible curtains on the sides of the radiator extending forward to trap the air entering instead of letting it go around the radiator. I think something like these on a Lark might make some difference. For my AC installation, I also have a 6 blade fan too; noisy yes, but it moves alot of air. JPV >> > Yeah... Don't need any added incentive for "rust." >> > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > JT 'Couple of things I discovered over the years regarding 53's and overheating. Those rubber flaps that cover the A-arms restrict airflow out of the engine compartment. I had a persistent overheating problem under a variety of conditions with a turbocharged V6 powered '53 until I removed those flaps. The 289 with AC and water cooled automatic in our convertible would overheat in the conditions you describe until I replaced the fan pully with the smaller diameter model apparently used on AC cars and some other models. S2DSteve > I have recently had my 54 commader V-8 232ci engine completely rebuilt. > It runs great, probaly has about 1000 miles on it. During normal [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Your Thoughts Mark On a "brand X" w/AC, I removed the standard fan and put an electric fan in front of the condensor. If the car go hot, a spritz from my water system (W/S sprayer) would result in an almost-instant drop of coolant temp. Two 8 or 9" fans should you for your car.Water needs refilling seldom. This was in San Jose Gotta go. Karl > 'Couple of things I discovered over the years regarding 53's and > overheating. Those rubber flaps that cover the A-arms restrict airflow [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > > > Your Thoughts Mark On a "brand X" w/AC, I removed the standard fan and put an electric fan in front of the condensor. If the car go hot, a spritz from my water system (W/S sprayer) would result in an almost-instant drop of coolant temp. Two 8 or 9" fans should you for your car.Water needs refilling seldom. This was in San Jose Gotta go. Karl > 'Couple of things I discovered over the years regarding 53's and > overheating. Those rubber flaps that cover the A-arms restrict airflow [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > > > Your Thoughts Mark On a "brand X" w/AC, I removed the standard fan and put an electric fan in front of the condensor. If the car go hot, a spritz from my water system (W/S sprayer) would result in an almost-instant drop of coolant temp. Two 8 or 9" fans should you for your car.Water needs refilling seldom. This was in San Jose Gotta go. Karl > 'Couple of things I discovered over the years regarding 53's and > overheating. Those rubber flaps that cover the A-arms restrict airflow [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > > > Your Thoughts Mark On a "brand X" w/AC, I removed the standard fan and put an electric fan in front of the condensor. If the car go hot, a spritz from my water system (W/S sprayer) would result in an almost-instant drop of coolant temp. Two 8 or 9" fans should you for your car.Water needs refilling seldom. This was in San Jose Gotta go. Karl > 'Couple of things I discovered over the years regarding 53's and > overheating. Those rubber flaps that cover the A-arms restrict airflow [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > > > Your Thoughts Mark On a "brand X" w/AC, I removed the standard fan and put an electric fan in front of the condensor. If the car go hot, a spritz from my water system (W/S sprayer) would result in an almost-instant drop of coolant temp. Two 8 or 9" fans should you for your car.Water needs refilling seldom. This was in San Jose Gotta go. Karl > 'Couple of things I discovered over the years regarding 53's and > overheating. Those rubber flaps that cover the A-arms restrict airflow [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > > > Your Thoughts Mark On a "brand X" w/AC, I removed the standard fan and put an electric fan in front of the condensor. If the car go hot, a spritz from my water system (W/S sprayer) would result in an almost-instant drop of coolant temp. Two 8 or 9" fans should you for your car.Water needs refilling seldom. This was in San Jose Gotta go. Karl > 'Couple of things I discovered over the years regarding 53's and > overheating. Those rubber flaps that cover the A-arms restrict airflow [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > > > Your Thoughts Mark On a "brand X" w/AC, I removed the standard fan and put an electric fan in front of the condensor. If the car go hot, a spritz from my water system (W/S sprayer) would result in an almost-instant drop of coolant temp. Two 8 or 9" fans should you for your car.Water needs refilling seldom. This was in San Jose Gotta go. Karl > 'Couple of things I discovered over the years regarding 53's and > overheating. Those rubber flaps that cover the A-arms restrict airflow [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > > > Your Thoughts Mark > On a "brand X" w/AC, I removed the standard fan and put an electric fan > in front of the condensor. [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] >>> >>> Your Thoughts Mark SignatureWTF is Oujdeivß? http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=3762&version=kjv to contact me try Oudeis via softhome.net I do believe Karl has a bad case of the hiccups. Bend over and drink an eight ounce glass of water upside down, that sould cure 'em. <G> Jerry Forrester >> On a "brand X" w/AC, I removed the standard fan and put an electric fan >> in front of the condensor. [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] >>>> >>>> Your Thoughts Mark The other day I was going through some of the cupboards in the garage and found a new mouse that I had bought "just in case." Two days ago I found a brand-new keyboard on sale at Odd-Lots. Yesterday, the left-click buttoin started missing on the mouse and today the "enter" on the keyboard started missing. I was thinking of buying a new computer, but I'm sure that I would haave all my files go Poof! Forgive me, folks. Kaarl > I do believe Karl has a bad case of the hiccups. > Bend over and drink an eight ounce glass of water upside down, that sould [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > > > > to contact me try Oudeis via softhome.net > 'Couple of things I discovered over the years regarding 53's and > overheating. Those rubber flaps that cover the A-arms restrict airflow [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > S2DSteve Steve, Those flaps are still in place on my Hawk and I too am using a smaller pulley on the water pump and fan. I am building a '54 coupe and I'll remember to remove the A-arm flaps as you suggest. Jack > > I have recently had my 54 commader V-8 232ci engine completely rebuilt. > > It runs great, probaly has about 1000 miles on it. During normal [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > > > Your Thoughts Mark |
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