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Car Forum / Antique and Collectibles / Studebaker / April 2007Highs and Lows (Major Bummed Out)
Took the yellow truck to an invitation only car show at the Beaufort Marine Air station today... Car show was great.. Air show was great, until the end.. Watched the two separated solo planes maneuver to get hooked back up with the core triangle so they could do their formup for a landing sequence demonstration. I was shooting pic's and was getting ready for them to make a pass. They were pretty low and off on the horizon, and they were blocked from view by the trees over there... Didn't see the final formup, just saw five come out from behind the trees and a big cloud of dark smoke. Most of the crowd did not see it as it was behind the main viewing area. The remaining 5 went through with the landing presentation and two immediately peeled off and went over to orbit the crash site. The other three landed. Then the fourth came back and landed. The lone Blue Angel flew a circle over the crash site with his smoke on. The rescue chopper had to spool up and leave from the display area. The whole show ended right there, and everyone was asked to leave. Then the base went on lockdown. Sad to see... I have some 250 pic's from the show, but they will have to wait a while... Found out the pilot was killed in the crash and some houses were hit on the ground. Haven't heard any reports of injuries on the ground yet. Jeff  SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Jeff They had a new pilot this year, a young lady. There has been no news as to identity as yet. There have been photos published on the newswires/net. Up here they are reporting homes damaged etc. Guess it would shake one up. Bill SignatureSave The Studebaker....Save the World > Took the yellow truck to an invitation only car show at the Beaufort > Marine Air station today... [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Haven't heard any reports of injuries on the ground yet. > Jeff > Jeff > They had a new pilot this year, a young lady. There has been no news as to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Guess it would shake one up. > Bill Really sad news. http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070422/D8OLCGJ00.html Paul Johnson Read about that. Sucks. Dick S. > Took the yellow truck to an invitation only car show at the Beaufort > Marine Air station today... [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Haven't heard any reports of injuries on the ground yet. > Jeff On a brighter note... Here's a video link of one cool pass.... http://tinyurl.com/26frus SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com This is what CNN.com has on it.. Really sorry to hear ab out it http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/04/21/blueangels.crash/ Signature63 Avanti R1493 > Took the yellow truck to an invitation only car show at the Beaufort > Marine Air station today... [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Haven't heard any reports of injuries on the ground yet. > Jeff Bummer. It's just because of that possibility that I avoid those air shows where teams like that perform. Been to many accidents. I met a widow last year at one of my grand daughters classes that I take her too.The womans husband was a navy flier who was killed in a crash she witnessed at a Pt Mugu show about three years ago. I remember reading about the crash. > Took the yellow truck to an invitation only car show at the Beaufort > Marine Air station today... [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Haven't heard any reports of injuries on the ground yet. > Jeff Yep, I heard that the family of the pilot who died was watching the show. How much tougher could it get? Joe Roberts > Bummer. It's just because of that possibility that I avoid those air shows > where teams like that perform. Been to many accidents. [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Yes, they were there and watching the performance...His first as opposing solo.. But if they were in the main grandstand VIP viewing area, they didn't see the accident, because it was directly behind them, and there were buildings in between them. That's probably a good thing. Jeff <Joe wrote: ... > Yep, I heard that the family of the pilot who died was watching the > show. > How much tougher could it get? > Joe Roberts SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com How could this be his first performance as opposing solo... it was their 9th show this season? I think the articles I've read are a little misleading, they made it sound like this was his first air show... I think they meant that this was his first season as a pilot in the #6 plane. They don't change pilots in the beginning of a season, I've seen them several times including one year where there was a pilot switch, but they flew several shows with five planes prior to that so the "new" pilot could catch up... actually he was a previous Blue Angel who was called back up to fill in. This is common for the narrator, a friend of mine from college has a brother who flew in the early 90's and did the same track... Narrator - Opposing Solo - Lead Solo. I've been to two shows at Beaufort... like anywhere else in this part of the country, once you get past the first row of trees you can't see sh.t. Lee > Yes, they were there and watching the performance...His first as opposing > solo.. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> How much tougher could it get? >> Joe Roberts Speculation form the Navy aviation newsgroup: ---------- Actually, it is being falesly reported that it was his first show. He was the # 7 pilot last season and has been # 6 since the first show at El Centro this year in March. Looking at the video that's going around the web it may very well be a GLOC, he made a hard turn to join then the nose falls through .... it's painful to watch. ------------ I have a hard time believing the G-LOC theory... these guys train and are tested for this extensively through their training and it's actually one of the physical tests they have to go through and can wash out before even getting accepted. I doubt he turned any harder than a (well for them) standard 7G turn. Lee > How could this be his first performance as opposing solo... it was their > 9th show this season? I think the articles I've read are a little [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >>> How much tougher could it get? >>> Joe Roberts I agree with you that there is a lot of info out there that has not been vetted very well, if at all. I saw the accident with my own two eyes and you couldn't really tell exactly what happened. And I said so. As far as the bio info... Beats me. That's what CNN was saying. I heard five different stories waiting to get let out of the base. I have seen some other video's that lead one to believe a particular scenario. I have a pretty good idea what happened, but I'll wait for the experts to report in. Just like the last accident in Georgia... There was a LOT of info that came out that no one would ever know just watching. Jeff "Lee Aanderud" wrote.. > How could this be his first performance as opposing solo... it was their > 9th show this season? I think the articles I've read are a little [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >>> How much tougher could it get? >>> Joe Roberts SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com The guys in the military aviation and the naval military aviation newsgroups have some good guesses as to what happened... and most of these guys appear to be fairly credible sources. Most are ex-military pilots some with demonstration pilot credentials. They're also watching the same videos that the rest of us are... and admit that they're still guessing. So far what they're pretty much in agreement with is one of two situations... catastrophic engine failure or what most are speculating.... GLOC. Having read more, they sound like it could be likely now to me. In a nutshell, on these planes the stick is held forward (nose heavy) with bungie cords. The pilot appeared to do a fairly tight 180 degree turn... may have missed a checkpoint and needed to turn tighter than normal to catch up. Right after he got through the turn the nose dropped. Even minor GLOC could relax the right hand nosing the plane downward. If even for a split second at that altitude there would have been no chance to recover. I also learned partial reason for the bungie cords... when inverted, if anything happens you're pushed upward and in formation flying it's safer to descend than ascend. They're also saying that if it wasn't GLOC and rode the plane in out of the path of houses, he deserves the Distinguised Flying Cross. Lee >I agree with you that there is a lot of info out there that has not been >vetted very well, if at all. [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] >>>> How much tougher could it get? >>>> Joe Roberts Again, I'll wait for the real experts... But the final turn he needed to make to reform was from way above their orbit altitude and he was scooting to get over there. Then needed to turn real tight (120 degree+) and stop his descent all in one maneuver. GLOC, compressor stall, wing stall, partial greyout, mechanical failure, misjudgment... All possible Lot's and lot's of speculation on the last accident the group had in Georgia, too... And that accident was finally determined to be a pilot issue, as he was flying with broken ribs. Now, how can video's, spectators, and speculators know that? That's why I'll wait for the investigation. For the sake of the late pilot, his family, and the group. Jeff "Lee Aanderud" wrote... > The guys in the military aviation and the naval military aviation > newsgroups have some good guesses as to what happened... and most of these [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > the path of houses, he deserves the Distinguised Flying Cross. > Lee > "Jeff Rice" wrote... >>I agree with you that there is a lot of info out there that has not been [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] >>>>> How much tougher could it get? >>>>> Joe Roberts SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Okay, I am not a pilot and know nothing about flying (Hell, I don't like flying at all.). So what is GLOC? Joe Roberts > Again, I'll wait for the real experts... > But the final turn he needed to make to reform was from way above their [quoted text clipped - 97 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Gravity-induced Loss Of Consciousness (High G-force black-out) Jim Bradley '64 Daytona HT “Rerun” HATbradley71771@earthlink.net Remove HAT to reply > Okay, I am not a pilot and know nothing about flying (Hell, I don't > like flying at all.). So what is GLOC? [quoted text clipped - 106 lines] >> >>- Show quoted text - -- Close - G force Loss of Consciousness G- force is a multple of normal gravitational pull developed by hard turns and rapid accelleration in a fighter. Centripital force pools the blood to the legs and center of the body- away from the brain. Fighters today can stress the human body WAY past what the heart can pump blood to the brain. G-suits worn over the legs and abdomen automatically inflate more under high G force to squeeze teh legs and lower body to force the blood out and back up to the brain. Combine that with the pilots' grunt and strain (kinda like he is constipated) and it's possible to stay awake under more force. The next generation of UAV (Un manned Aerial Vehicles) will not be limited by being designed around a pilot's body and ego. It will be able to do a helluva lot tighter turns and accelleration, have a better thrust to weight ratio, and will be able to have more -un-conventional design characteristics. No need for heat A/C Oxygen, escape seat, windows, pressurization, console displays, joystick and rudder linkages etc etc etc. Pilots in the jet are rapidly becoming obsolete. Mark (you heard it here first) Dunning > Gravity-induced Loss Of Consciousness (High G-force black-out) > [quoted text clipped - 130 lines] >>> >>>- Show quoted text - I kind of doubt it in this case, but that's just a swag. GLOC takes a certain amount of time to occur, and longer if the trained pilot takes steps to put it off. The maneuver he was putting the plane through at the time of the accident was not long in duration at all. And the prior maneuver was not that violent. They seem to be getting more video clips and pictures, so the investigators may have much more info to go with. Jeff "Mark Dunning" wrote... > Close - G force Loss of Consciousness <snip> > "Jim Bradley" wrote... >> Gravity-induced Loss Of Consciousness (High G-force black-out) >> Joe Roberts wrote: >>> Okay, I am not a pilot and know nothing about flying (Hell, I don't >>> like flying at all.). So what is GLOC? >>>>Again, I'll wait for the real experts... >>>>But the final turn he needed to make to reform ?was from way above their [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >>>>For the sake of the late pilot, his family, and the group. >>>>Jeff SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > Again, I'll wait for the real experts... > But the final turn he needed to make to reform was from way above their [quoted text clipped - 97 lines] > > - Show quoted text - All this brings to mind the diamond-shaped splotch in the desert from the Thunderbirds many years ago. It isn't a pretty sight, once you now how it came about. Karl. Yes, and the investigation of that accident found that the lead plane had an elevator problem that did not allow him to pull all the way back. His loop was too far open and he flew into the desert floor. His wingmen dutifully followed their leader and they all perished. That was a tough one indeed. Jeff < Karl wrote:... > All this brings to mind the diamond-shaped splotch in the desert from > the Thunderbirds many years ago. It isn't a pretty sight, once you now > how it came about. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Here is the version I recall: n 1982, there was another disaster for the Thunderbirds, occurring during pre-season training on January 18. While practicing the 4 plane diamond loop, the formation impacted the ground at high speed, instantly killing all four pilots: Major Norm Lowry, leader, Captain Willie Mays, Captain Pete Peterson and Captain Mark Melancon. The cause of the crash was officially listed by the USAF as the result of a mechanical problem with the #1 aircraft's control stick actuator. Despite the fact that the accident investigative board had not uncovered any evidence to support this theory, there was heavy pressure from the pilots' families and top Air Force officials to arrive at this conclusion. During formation flight, the wing and slot pilots visually cue off of the #1 lead aircraft, completely disregarding their positions in relation to the ground. In this accident, this is the root cause for all four aircraft impacting the terrain, not just the lead jet with the problem. Many in the fighter community felt that the cause was most likely a result of the lead pilot's error due to a simple miscalculation, the equivalent of controlled flight into terrain. > Yes, and the investigation of that accident found that the lead plane had an > elevator problem that did not allow him to pull all the way back. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> the Thunderbirds many years ago. It isn't a pretty sight, once you now >> how it came about. SignatureJP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 Wagonaire 64 Daytona HT 64 Commander 2 dr 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 63 Avanti R1 63 Daytona convert 63 Lark 2 door 63 Lark 2 door #2 62 Lark 2 door 62 Daytona HT/ 4 speed 60 Hawk 59 3E truck 52 Starlight 52 Starliner 51 Commander Yep...Pretty much what I said.....without the speculation added. I remember that one, and followed it pretty close. Jeff "John Poulos" wrote... > Here is the version I recall: > n 1982, there was another disaster for the Thunderbirds, occurring during [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >>> the Thunderbirds many years ago. It isn't a pretty sight, once you now >>> how it came about. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > Yep...Pretty much what I said.....without the speculation added. > I remember that one, and followed it pretty close. > Jeff I know, but you made me google it to refresh my memory since I recalled the speculation. Here's more info: From: thunder@rmii.com (Ed Rasimus) Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military Subject: Re: diamond crash Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 14:32:45 GMT "When the report was submitted, General Creech returned it and reconvened the board with the statement that "Thunderbirds do not commit pilot errors." Command guidance was to come up with another cause. That was when the "shock absorber" was invented as the culprit. What made the report a laughingstock for T-38 pilots (although acceptable to Gen. Creech and the general public) was the fact that with 160 AT-38B aircraft on the ramp at Holloman, with at least 1000 maintainers and more than 200 Talon IPs on the base and with more than 20 years experience operating the airplane for the USAF, no one had ever before heard of the "shock absorber" and no one could find any reference to such a gadget in the control system schematics." SignatureJP/Maryland Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items:http://www.stude.com/EBAY/ 64 Wagonaire 64 Daytona HT 64 Commander 2 dr 63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk 63 Avanti R1 63 Daytona convert 63 Lark 2 door 63 Lark 2 door #2 62 Lark 2 door 62 Daytona HT/ 4 speed 60 Hawk 59 3E truck 52 Starlight 52 Starliner 51 Commander I've read the two military newsgroups on and off for years and you can pretty much bank on what Ed Rasimus says as fact. Lee >> Yep...Pretty much what I said.....without the speculation added. >> I remember that one, and followed it pretty close. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > ever before heard of the "shock absorber" and no one could find any > reference to such a gadget in the control system schematics." SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > Took the yellow truck to an invitation only car show at the Beaufort Marine > Air station today... [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > -- > Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com I was stationed at Lakehurst, NJ from 1971-1974 and there was a Blue Angels issue there also. We were issues rifles and side arms (but no ammo) to keep souvenior hunters away from crash site. Fukkin 2 legged buzzards pissed me off. > I was stationed at Lakehurst, NJ from 1971-1974 and there was a Blue > Angels issue there also. We were issues rifles and side arms (but no > ammo) to keep souvenior hunters away from crash site. Fukkin 2 legged > buzzards pissed me off. I wonder how soon before we start seeing parts show up on E-Bay. I don't recall if idiots tried this with the shuttle crash a few years ago. I think I got the signature on a program of the guy killed in the mid-70's. It was my first air show at the Grand Forks AFB... they were flying A-4's at the time. Lee SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
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