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Car Forum / Antique and Collectibles / Studebaker / January 2004Av gas in a Stude
'Someone' is using 100 octane low lead AV gas in a Stude V8 to protect valves and seats. He only drives a few hundred miles a year. A mechanic he knows says the AV gas will damage his engine. I'm going to advise him he doesn't need to use this stuff, but I don't think it will hurt his engine either. Comments please? AFAIK it won't hurt anything without a catalytic converter. Sure as hell won't ping. <G> Seriously, if he only drives a few hundred miles a year he'd be dead before unleaded did any damage to his valves. > 'Someone' is using 100 octane low lead AV gas in a Stude V8 to protect > valves and seats. He only drives a few hundred miles a year. A mechanic he [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Comments please?  SignatureRemove xxx to email. "I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather, not screaming in terror like his passengers." 1953 Starlight Coupe 1958 Silver Hawk 1963 Avanti R2 R4324 1963 Lark Cruiser (R3 clone in progress) 1963 GT Hawk 1956 2E7 1946 Packard Deluxe Clipper 2000 Boxster S 2000 Titan Phoenix 2002 Jeep Overland My guess is his wallet will take more of a beating than the valve seats. <G> Gord Richmond > My guess is his wallet will take more of a beating than the valve > seats. <G> > > Gord Richmond Last time I bought some at the local airport it was about the same price per gallon as premium at the exxon. 100LL comes from petroleum just like all gas, it is a more refined and cleaner gas. Also, you will never need Stabil. the chemical breakdown of regular gas is caused by contaminants which are absent in avgas. Brent Wegher This guy has 2 concerns. The first is tht he is worried about valve seat erosion and he only drive the car a few hundred miles per year. I think his worries about valve seat erosion are unfounded. The two components in valve seat erosion are soft heads and heat. Stude heads are pretty hard so no problems there. The heat that really causes that metal transfer is like if you were idling your car in the Fourth of July parade or having overheating problems. Add that to the fact that he only drives a few hundred miles a year and I'd say valve seat erosion won't be a problem for him. His second problem is leaving a tank of gas sit in the car for months at a time because he doesn't drive it much. Aviation gas and Racing fuel are excellent choices for this sort of thing (as long as you don't let the octane get too high) because they don't have the crap in them that pump swill has. When we raced in the Baja 1000 in 2001, we took a practice bike down with us. We gassed it up in Mexico and didn't touch it again for 8 months. I took it to a shop to get the fork seals replaced and the mechanic asked it I had put "Mexican Gas" in it. I said yeah and he said he thought so because the carbs were clean as a whistle. There was no varnish buildup like there is with American gas. Mexican gas is stable to store for a long time because it doesn't have the volitile compounds in it. So, long story short, if that aviation gas is good to sit in his car for months at a time, I think it's the right stuff to put in there, but not because it has any lead in it. Bob Back in the 1970's I flew out of an airport 53 miles from my house and auto fuel was difficult at best to get. I got permissio to buy AVGAS 100 octane for my 1975 Mercury Cougar which was on the same frame etc as the Mark V I believe.from our FBO, I was warned that it would ruin the engine over time, and it did, took out the valves within a year. As far as Studebaker engines I am not sure it would damage them, The last decades they made the engines out of a solid casting withiit any sleeve un the cyinder wall When the fuel crisis hit, and gasoline went high AVGAS stayed 78.9 a gallon. i will say the car had more pep to it. >Back in the 1970's I flew out of an airport 53 miles from my house and auto >fuel was difficult at best to get. I got permissio to buy AVGAS 100 octane for [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >will say the car had more pep to it. > Bondo, I sure your valves went for reasons other than avgas. I've used avgas in lots of engines from pump motors and lawn mowers to loader trucks, even back when 80 octane was available and after that 100 octane. Never had a problem. >I sure your valves went for reasons other than avgas. I was warned not to use it by the A&P guy up there, said it would screw up the engine. I always assumed it was the AVGAS after the engine/valves went. When we turned the car in we were lucky dealership was four blocks from our old apartment so it was placed out front cold. Once hot it ran like ---- . The A&P guy, a fellow named Mack Vicor told me that avgas was way too hot burning for an auto engine. Like I said, this was on a 75 Mercruy Cougar. BG Ted Harbit has reported here that his hauler has many miles on it with modern fuel with no problems to the valve train. I do not like av fuel in cars, especially race cars- I have seen many damaged by guys trying it.There is a heat issue in relation to melting pistons.For some reason, fuel designed to work in engines in very cold higher atmosphere temps, with propeller blast wind chills, tends to not carry heat away from the combustion chamber. Freddy > 'Someone' is using 100 octane low lead AV gas in a Stude V8 to protect > valves and seats. He only drives a few hundred miles a year. A mechanic he [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Comments please? I use it often in my 327 powered Stude...mainly 'cause it's free...I got a few hundred gallons of 100LL when I bought the FBO with the deal and I'd like to see it gone. Won't use it in my airplanes, because it's not fresh out of the pump. I haven't seen any bad effects, but don't see any good ones either. I guess I could crank in a little more initial advance and might see a power increase that way but then it would ping when I fueld with unleaded preimum away from the airport. Exhaust pipes get real clean with the 100LL and that's the only difference I can see. It might help more with a high compression engine (mine's 9.2/1) or a blown engine. 100LL at our airport is $2.75 today. Unleaded Preimum is around $1.75. I can't imagine benefits that would be worth $15 per tankful. Not sure about the heat issue, Freddy. Air cooled acft engines generally run 300-400 degree cylinder head temps, while water cooled cars are around 200 degrees. If 100LL added to the heat problem, I think you'd see a lot more acft owners converting to auto gas. -Dick- > Ted Harbit has reported here that his hauler has many miles on it with > modern fuel with no problems to the valve train. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > > > Comments please? I think you hit it right on the head Dick. I think everybody is forgetting that all gas now is unleaded so that shouldn't be an issue. AVGas isn't really more refined, it's more strictly refined, has less impurities, has anti-macrobiotic and anti-ice additives, plus cetane and specific gravity is exactly what's advertised, which gives it it's very important, exact pound per gallon ratio, therefore it's always gonna cost more. A car running on 100LL AVGas will run exactly like it runs on high octane pump gas. You'll get the results exactly as you described, unless of course a fella messes with the timing a bit, and he might/mebbe/perhaps get a touch more performance, just due to the higher octane. I wouldn't run AVGas because I've never found it cheaper anywhere and it's totally unnecessary. The highest performance street machines from all manufacturers are made to run on normal, high octane pump gas. I can always put some readily available, lead substitute additive in any fuel to protect an older, lead predicated engine. I used to run 115/145 when it was available, (whew, that was a while back), in our Ford dragsters and in a few stock tractors when we took 'em to the tractor pull. Now with octane that high, you MUST run a "normal" engine rich and definitely change the timing or run the risk of holes in the pistons. It never increased the engine running temperature, and after careful testing and tuning, it definitely ran better, more consistently. Bottom line, if you are racing a car, mixing fuels, concerned with unusually fine weight distribution issues, want a known consistent as far as fuel is concerned, then AVGas might be what your looking for, otherwise save your bucks. <G> SignatureSonny http://RacingStudebakers.com > I use it often in my 327 powered Stude...mainly 'cause it's free...I got a > few hundred gallons of 100LL when I bought the FBO with the deal and I'd [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > > > > > Comments please? |
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