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Car Forum / Subaru Cars / June 2004

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IC Water Spray

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JP - 12 Jun 2004 04:10 GMT
Just a question out of curiosity. Could rain possibly act in the same way
that the IC Water spray nozzle does, or would you have to reach relatively
high speeds for this to happen. On a more general note, is the STi's engine
performance any better when it rains?

Just curious,
SilverBullet
Ken Gilbert - 12 Jun 2004 16:02 GMT
> Just a question out of curiosity. Could rain possibly act in the same way
> that the IC Water spray nozzle does, or would you have to reach relatively
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Just curious,
> SilverBullet

water spray works on evaporation.

evaporation does not occur in 100% relative humidity.

while it's raining, it's generally around 100% relative humidity.

therefore rain is not quite like ic water spray.  

from the above you may also see that the water spray will be more
effective as RH approaches zero... and it CAN be quite effective,
allowing you to have IC temps BELOW ambient air temps.

humid air contains water, which displaces oxygen, so generally you'll
get less power.  it is a little bit less detonation prone, though.

hth
ken
CompUser - 12 Jun 2004 17:43 GMT
> water spray works on evaporation.
>
> evaporation does not occur in 100% relative humidity.
>
> while it's raining, it's generally around 100% relative humidity.

Hey AGAer Ken!

Putting on my Tony Hwang hat, I'd think the IC
spray would still be helpful, since the IC can
hit temps of 250*...at which point, the "local
relative humidity" would probably become a bit
more favorable for evaporative kewling, eh? 8^)

Steve
JP - 12 Jun 2004 21:26 GMT
ok got it IC works on evaporation. One more question, could you spray
somethning else over the intercooler that would lower intake temps. more
than water does?
JaySee - 13 Jun 2004 09:47 GMT
>ok got it IC works on evaporation. One more question, could you spray
>somethning else over the intercooler that would lower intake temps. more
>than water does?

Alcohol.  Evaporates faster at a lower temperature.
Patrick Fisher - 13 Jun 2004 15:10 GMT
> >ok got it IC works on evaporation. One more question, could you spray
> >somethning else over the intercooler that would lower intake temps. more
> >than water does?
> >
> Alcohol.  Evaporates faster at a lower temperature.

Also burns and can eat away at the rubber hoses for the IC Spray :)
CompUser - 13 Jun 2004 20:24 GMT
> > >ok got it IC works on evaporation. One more question, could you spray
> > >somethning else over the intercooler that would lower intake temps. more
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Also burns and can eat away at the rubber hoses for the IC Spray :)

Yeah, I don't like the idea of spraying a
flammable liquid right next to a scorching hot
turbine housing.  :-(

Also, alcohol takes less energy away in the
evaporation process than water does...so spray-
for-spray, it would have less cooling effect than
plain water.

Steve
Ken Gilbert - 14 Jun 2004 17:01 GMT
> > > >ok got it IC works on evaporation. One more question, could you spray
> > > >somethning else over the intercooler that would lower intake temps. more
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> flammable liquid right next to a scorching hot
> turbine housing.  :-(

i wouldn't use just pure alcohol.  i'd probably go with the readily
available windshield washer fluid, which is methanol/water mix and
non-flammable.

> Also, alcohol takes less energy away in the
> evaporation process than water does...so spray-
> for-spray, it would have less cooling effect than
> plain water.

it would have less of an overall effect, but it would take effect
faster.  this may be better for your particular application, which
generally involves combating heatsoak from being at a standstill for
some period of time inducing heatsoak of the TMIC.

ken
JaySee - 17 Jun 2004 00:24 GMT
>> > > >ok got it IC works on evaporation. One more question, could you spray
>> > > >somethning else over the intercooler that would lower intake temps. more
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>available windshield washer fluid, which is methanol/water mix and
>non-flammable.

I didn't mean pure alcohol.  This is more along what I meant.  It's
also one of the original designs of the IC sprayer either from STi or
RalliArt.  I'm pretty sure it was RalliArt that hooked up the IC
Sprayer to the windshield wiper resevoir in one of the EVOs.

>> Also, alcohol takes less energy away in the
>> evaporation process than water does...so spray-
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>ken

JaySee
Richard Paquette - 14 Jun 2004 00:48 GMT
> >ok got it IC works on evaporation. One more question, could you spray
> >somethning else over the intercooler that would lower intake temps. more
> >than water does?
> >
> Alcohol.  Evaporates faster at a lower temperature.

the best way is with CO2.

look at :  

http://www.cryofuzion.com/index.htm

Richard
Edward Arata - 14 Jun 2004 05:50 GMT
> look at :
>
> http://www.cryofuzion.com/index.htm

This is not meant as any disrespect to the poster of original link.  It is
meant as a critical review of the products presented in the above link.  If
anybody else checks out the above link, let me know what you think.

The above site was good for a laugh.  I was going to mention the CO2
sprayers for IC which I have seen before, however I had not heard of these
people.  They bring up one valid point on the whole site, "CO2 displaces
Oxygen" (well this is true for any gas that you push into a contained area)
and that if you put CO2 under the hood it could get into the intake, not if
you have a cool air intake under one of the fenders, but ok, I see their
point.  Their, interfreezer thing sounds like a cool idea, no pun intended,
however I have one question.  It is obvious that it will cool the air and
will condense the H2O as is shown on the outside of the unit on the website.
This will also happen on the inside of the unit which they say is a good
thing, (I agree) however what happens to this water which is condensed on
the inside?  Two things in my opinion.  One, it freezes and restricts your
intake, which is a bad thing, and two when you stop using the unit the water
melts and goes into the engine.  So to me this means that one, this is a
short term use item, and two it has the possibility to dump a bunch of water
into your engine when you stop using it.  Does anybody else see a problem
with this?

The Flowducer also at first glance seems like a fun idea.  Granted their
ideas are aerodynamically sound (I'm not an aero engineer but was best
friends with two of them in college), but vacuum on your exhaust is not
always a good thing at least  for turboed cars (WRX included).  In reading
some FAQs on exhaust systems on turboed cars I recall running into a
phenomenon in which you can have too little backpressure on the exhaust side
of the turbo.  Of course more air flow = more power, which is why intake and
exhaust mods are done, however putting a 3 inch exhaust on a turboed car
only make sense with a huge turbo.  As I remember it, you can infact
effectively "stall" out the turbo (maybe that's not the right term), but it
increases turbo lag.  This would not really be a problem once you have the
turbo spinning but who wants to be fooling around turning something on under
boost?  Not to mention how the turbo would react to a change in exit
pressure, and all the above assumes that the pressure difference due to this
device is significant which may not be true.  It might work for non-turboed
cars but I would not put one on a WRX.  That's only my opinion.

And as for the Cheetah jets?  Do I have to go there?  How much more "Fast
and Furious" do you have to get?  For looks maybe, but then do we really
want to ascribe to "the all show and no go" theory?  Plus if you have to
kill your opponents horsepower via CO2 attack, you are not really racing
anyway, and it means you don't have the confidence in what you have under
the hood.  Again, just my opinion.

Ed
Chris Phillipo - 15 Jun 2004 01:47 GMT
> And as for the Cheetah jets?  Do I have to go there?  How much more "Fast
> and Furious" do you have to get?  For looks maybe, but then do we really
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Ed

I think after you are done impressing the girls, and by girls I mean the
pre-pubecent boys in attendance, I think you would get your a.s 
perferated by a tire iron if you tried that on someone in a real street
race.
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JaySee - 17 Jun 2004 00:22 GMT
http://www.cryofuzion.com/spraybar.htm

Says spraying CO2 on the IC is BAD!

>> >ok got it IC works on evaporation. One more question, could you spray
>> >somethning else over the intercooler that would lower intake temps. more
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
>-----==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
Tony Hwang - 14 Jun 2004 20:03 GMT
>>ok got it IC works on evaporation. One more question, could you spray
>>somethning else over the intercooler that would lower intake temps. more
>>than water does?
>
> Alcohol.  Evaporates faster at a lower temperature.
Hi,
Won't there be a fire hazard with alcohol?
Tony
Ken Gilbert - 14 Jun 2004 16:59 GMT
> > water spray works on evaporation.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Steve

good point steve.  the surface temp of the ic core may well be enough
to raise the temperature of the water above the dewpoint.  also, if
your ic sprayer is spraying something other than pure water (like an
alcohol), again, it will probably work.

ken
2 Stroke - 16 Jun 2004 00:35 GMT
>evaporation does not occur in 100% relative humidity.

If that was true, you couldn't boil water if the humidity was too
high.  

If the intercooler is at 100 deg. and you spray it with some 50 deg
water, the water will get warmer and the intercooler will get cooler,
regardless of humidity.

Evaporation occurs after the water has been heated to its boiling
point.  Above 100 deg C. at standard pressure, water is a gas.

Rain that falls on the intercooler will cool it down, assuming that it
is warmer than the rain.  
Chris Phillipo - 16 Jun 2004 01:59 GMT
> >evaporation does not occur in 100% relative humidity.
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Rain that falls on the intercooler will cool it down, assuming that it
> is warmer than the rain.  

Evaporation and steam are two diffferent phenomenon but you are correct
that the water is going to cool it regardless.
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