I'd be interesting in knowing what they find also - if I were you, I
might contact the SOA zone manager/whatever and have him at the
dealership when the vehicle is re-examined. Techs are human and perhaps
something just wasn't torqued correctly during the last reapir. I
suppose there is a remote possibility they didn't use the most recent
'version' of HGs or ????

Carl

The only reason I can come up with, and sometimes this can be
an important one, is that the dealers may know about TSBs from Subaru
or other manufacturers whereas your less costly local mechanic does not
get these TSBs.  

On the other hand, having been a technical rep for a car factory,
(not Subaru) I have run across quite a few dealers who received their
TSBs from us, properly put them into a binder in the service manager's
office so they could show me they had them when I came visiting, but
never made any effort to get copies to the mechanics.  Don't ask me
why?   Fortuneatly, a lot did make sure mechs got them.

I chewed out quite a few managers about things like this, but
sure enough when I checked after another 5 or 6 visits, the bad dealers
where back to their old bad habits.

Let me give you a hint on this.  Every dealership runs according to the way
the management of that dealership thinks. In other words, in the hundreds
of dealers I have visited, across the US, the way things run always comes
down from the top.  Internally, the way the sales, service, parts and new
car prep departments (and sometimes their used car dept if they have one)
work will all be the same although they each their ways of covering up their
deceptive practices if they are a "bad" dealer.

So my hint is this; when deciding about getting your car serviced, look into
the other departments.  Listen in to someone buying a new car, are they
getting the run back and forth to the "New Car Manager" with every deal
offer?  Are the people in parts knowledgable and helpful, if anyone is picking
up a new car, does it really seem ready to be picked up, any plactic stuck
to the seat bottom edges?  Are the people who work there content about
what they are doing or do you hear people all over the place talking about
being screwed by the boss? Are the telephones ringing endlessly and are
they being answered in a cheery and "happy you called us" manner?

Of course, recognize there are days when no-one can be too happy and days
when everyone is just overwhelmed.

Also, are the mechanics paid flat rate, or hourly?  Flat rate mechanics, the
most popular type, get paid x dollars, whatever it says in the flat rate book,
no matter how little or how long the repair takes.  If the book says 4 hours,
you pay for 4 hours, the mech gets paid for 4 hours, the dealer gets paid
for 4 hours.  Dealer and mech usually split the labor money 50/50,
sometimes a little different ratio like 60/40.

Good mechanics often make 8 to 10 or 12 hours a day.  Bad mechanics
sometimes make 20 or more hours a day. (Guess why?) Really bad mechanics
often make less than 8 hours a day. In the extremely
rare situation, an older, well experienced very competent mech may work slowly
and do excellent work making less than 8 hours a day.

Feel out the dealer or local mechanic before getting repairs.
It may take more than 1 visit.

Also, good rebuilt parts from reputable companies like NAPA
and such are just as good or better than factory parts in most cases.
Much better than 25 years ago if you had bad experiences in
the old past and remember the earlier years when "rebuilt" meant
opened up, looked over, obvious bad parts replaced, and shipped out.

Rebuilders are now factories just like your car manufacturer and every part
gets the same "back to new" treatment, with rare exception with some
junk brands.

RedCrow

Florian Feuser <florian@SPAMTRAPfunnygarbage.com> wrote;

This is true in some areas, but totally false in others. AllData is
not cheap and if you are just making it by, then you are going to cut
out things like AllData first and go back to the books which are cheap
and in plentiful supply on the used book market.

Several reasons, the only tool any manufacturer has to coerce a dealer
is money. Solving one problem can hurt five other customers.

Example, say a customer is in warranty but has an unusual problem and
has to have the dealer do some serious engine work on his car. Five
days later, the engine blows up.

The dealer rebuilds the engine under warranty since he sees no relation
between the new failure and his work. (Not a great example, but you get the idea!)

Now I have been having a lot of trouble getting this dealer to
be honest with customers and I have an opportunity to teach him a lesson.
So when I come in, I look at the old broken parts and tell the dealer I'm
not paying him for rebuilding the engine because it failed because of the
work his mechanic did on the car. Therefore, it is not a warranty
problem and he cannot charge the customer either.

Think it would do any good?
No, it doesn't, they just screw the next five customers that much worse.
That is about all service can do, spend or not spend money.

Either they are a good dealer, or they are not, or they fall somewhere
in between.  You have to scope them out, then decide to deal with them
or not.

So, how about sales?
The law now provides that all dealers must be treated equally by the
manufacturer.  Long ago, you could treat your good dealers by giving
them your new models and limited editions first, or even exclusively.
Dealers really paid attention back then.

When you hear on TV that a dealer made a special deal with the
factory, and got 200 cars at a special low price, that is pure BS
and against federal law. Don't believe a word of it.

So sales has no power over the dealers either.

As you can see from above, it is not Subaru or Honda or Toyota etc.
It is politics.

On this forum, I see often that people say they have a problem with Subaru,
or Subaru doesn't honor it's warranty, etc. when what they need to
understand is that they have a problem with a "Dealer", probably not
Subaru or Honda, etc. Often what the dealer tells the manufacturer is
quite different than how he tells you he presented your warranty
problem that got rejected.  The dealer makes more money if you pay for the
repair.

The factory tests how long repairs should take and creates a factory flat rate
manual. Then another company comes along and their selling point to buy
their manual (maybe an "emanual" now) is that all the times are doubled.

When I was a mechanic, I used the "popular" flat rate manual to estimate
jobs. One day a guy came in selling a manual where all times were 3 times
the factory times.  I passed.  But that is how it basically works.

Law now requires factory pays same hourly wage, but factory time.  Dealer
can charge "popular" flat rate times, plus shop supplies, plus service fees,
plus parts disposal fees, etc.

A friend of mine the other day said he called Ford
to find out something about the differential in his old car. Having been a
rep, I had to ask about 6 questions to get through to him that he had
not spoken to "Ford", but rather to the service manager at a Ford
dealership. People do not seem to understand that these two are completely
separate from one another.

Perhaps it would be better if the big "Ford" or "Honda" or "Toyota"
signs were not out in front of every dealership, since it makes people think
that the dealer is part of the company whose product it sells.  Of course,
that would never work, but you get the idea.

thermostat replaced at a cost of $550 at Milea >Subaru in the Bronx (a 1hour
train ride for me). The service guy tried >to do me a favor and decided to
grease all door hinges. He overlooked >that in the hot weather here, the
clearance between the spoiler on the >hatch and the roof caused the edge of
the spoiler to catch and bind, >forced it open and broke off the front of the
spoiler, denting the roof >in the process.

Well, FF, accidents do happen, and I was not there to see how exactly
how the dealership handled their mistake.  But lies are not mistakes, and
I don't know where else you can get your car worked on but there have to
be some good Suby mechanics closer than 1 hour from where you live.

In "general", and I said I was not there, if a dealer does not greet you with
an appology when you walk in the door, before you find out about this on your
own, what do you think their attitude is when they are doing serious work
on your car? Your satisfaction means nothing to them.

I would not even put
it past them to set you up for future work, and I have seen this done as
regular policy, by sabotage to some other part of your car by loosening a
bolt or adding a liquid here or there or whatever.

If the service manager
knew about this in advance and did not tell you, or if he did not try to
resolve this to your satisfaction once he found out about it, I suggest
you never go there again. Other Subaru dealers can also perform warranty
on your car if needed. Some brands, not sure about Subaru, even let non
dealers perform some types of warranty work, might be worth checking out
with the factory, but don't call a dealer about it.

The other very valid problem I see that you have is that the shop that
repaired the head gasket did not check the cooling fan, what the heck
kind of a job was that?  Makes you wonder what else he didn't do?
And, was there a check up before the blown head gasket where someone
should have checked cooling fans and the likes?

Good luck, Subies are still great cars, I have 5 sitting outside right now!

RedCrow

Rick Courtright <rcourtright@iname.com> wrote;

Would you like to define an AMERICAN car for me? Most of your smaller
sized "American" cars use at least "foreign" engines, transmissions
and under hood accessories.

My experience is that was true about 20 years ago.  Today, reman. is
a big industry done in big factories and not a bunch of little shops.

Whoa... I didn't say from XYZ, I said from reputable companies like
NAPA.  Big difference!!!

The little sticker that says "Made in Korea" in fine print <g>?
But of course, whatever puts your mind at ease is the most important
factor, so what ever turns you on, go for it.

I have no statistics on your theory.  But I have no problem with quality
nor fit for the Subaru parts I buy from reputable parts companies like
NAPA (no, I have nothing to do with NAPA, they are just the best near
where I live).  Maybe your Subaru guy has trouble looking up Subaru
parts.

RedCrow