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Car Forum / Subaru Cars / January 2007

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Subaru Coolant Conditioner?

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Oscar_Lives - 24 Jan 2007 12:53 GMT
So, what is in the magic Subaru Coolant Conditioner?  is it really needed?
Todd H. - 24 Jan 2007 15:24 GMT
> So, what is in the magic Subaru Coolant Conditioner?  is it really
> needed?

Depends if you want your head gasket warranty to be honored.

Since they took the time and expense to issue a recall on the issue,
and print new manual pages including instructions to use it, my guess
is "yes."

Good news is that's it's not expensive stuff.

--
Todd H.
2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4
Chicago, Illinois USA
nobody > - 25 Jan 2007 01:02 GMT
>> So, what is in the magic Subaru Coolant Conditioner?  is it really
>> needed?
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> 2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4
> Chicago, Illinois USA

IIRC, the 8 oz. container is less than $5.
Steve Parker - 24 Jan 2007 15:29 GMT
> So, what is in the magic Subaru Coolant Conditioner?  is it really needed?

There is a problem with coolant leaks in some Subys. Seems like a small
investment for peace of mind. Check with a dealer for the need in your
particular application.
Sparky
DK - 24 Jan 2007 15:31 GMT
>So, what is in the magic Subaru Coolant Conditioner?  is it really needed?

Yes, it is needed if your car fits the recall. All signs are that it is Holts Radweld:

Subaru magic conditioner:
http://www.scoobymods.com/forums/attachment.php?s=a75d1dba0f4a4ac808a7695c6930b2
b8&attachmentid=2230&d=1077312572

(notice "Holts" on the bottle).

Radweld:
http://images.hemalhemsat.com/_upload/200611/890471001142339048873872_0_0.jpg
Edward Hayes - 24 Jan 2007 16:20 GMT
Subaru state that the "coolant conditioner" must be used in all models
every time the coolant is changed. Cost is $2.50 for a 125ml bottle
but, my dealer gave one to me free of charge.
M.J. - 24 Jan 2007 17:46 GMT
> Subaru state that the "coolant conditioner" must be used in all models
> every time the coolant is changed.

That would likely mean they didn't fix the problem with the 2.5l engine.

My speculation is that the displacement is too big for the size of the
engine block, and the head gasket fails as there is too little mass in
crucial areas- tiny air bubbles in the cooling system are enough to
initialize overheating and damage the gasket.

I guess I won't be buying a Subaru for some time, unless I spring up
for the 3.0L six engine, which supposedly is prone to hesitation, not likely
to happen :(  Well the the new Mitsu looks nice.

M.J.
Edward Hayes - 24 Jan 2007 21:57 GMT
I wouldn't over react to the coolant conditioner since most
manufactures install it at the factory and also add it when the
coolant is changed.
M.J. - 24 Jan 2007 23:15 GMT
>I wouldn't over react to the coolant conditioner since most manufactures
>install it at the factory and also add it when the coolant is changed.

Please, I am not overreacting to the conditioner, just recognizing
a long time problem Subaru has had with the 2.5l engine. I believe
their approach has been to try and put a super strong headgasket,
plus the conditioner, without addressing the source of the problem.

I believe that the displacement is too large for the egnine size block,
which leads to the engine being sensitive to overheating in low mass
areas which then causes these notorious head gasket failures.
People have been saying for a long time that its the air trapped in
the cooling system that causes the overheating.  Well, i don't know,
Subaru stays mum which leads me to believe in my theory, plus the
2.2L engine never had any of these problems, so go figure.

M.J.
Oscar_Lives - 25 Jan 2007 04:38 GMT
THANKS

>> Subaru state that the "coolant conditioner" must be used in all models
>> every time the coolant is changed.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> M.J.
DK - 25 Jan 2007 05:11 GMT
>Subaru state that the "coolant conditioner" must be used in all models
>every time the coolant is changed. Cost is $2.50 for a 125ml bottle
>but, my dealer gave one to me free of charge.

Where does it say it? When the original recall was issued, I checked
online and MySubaru stated that there is no recall on my Forester 2002.
I also checked with dealer and confirmed that. I just went to MySubaru
and downloaded Owners' Manual to see if it is updated but now, it's
an old document last modified in the fall of 2001.

DK
Edward Hayes - 25 Jan 2007 18:14 GMT
The recall to have the conditioner was not for all model years.
Subaru's recommendation is to use the conditioner in all 2.5L engines
whenever the coolant is changed. The factory added the conditioner
starting in the year 2002. The TSB or Subaru factory TIPS said it will
be reflected in the owners/service manuals to add the conditioner at
each coolant change.
CompUser - 26 Jan 2007 15:26 GMT
In article <ks6uh.820059$QZ1.522238@bgtnsc04-
news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
erhayes@worldnet.att.net says...
> The recall to have the conditioner was not for all model years.
> Subaru's recommendation is to use the conditioner in all 2.5L engines
> whenever the coolant is changed.

I'm pretty sure SOA or Subaru is now specifying
coolant conditioner for ALL their engines...last
coupla three years or so.
Bill Bradley - 25 Jan 2007 11:59 GMT
Is this needed for ALL 2.5 L engines, including turbo and 2007 models?

> So, what is in the magic Subaru Coolant Conditioner?  is it really needed?
Rick Courtright - 25 Jan 2007 17:48 GMT
> Is this needed for ALL 2.5 L engines, including turbo and 2007 models?

Hi,

I don't know if it's "needed" but is probably not a bad idea. It's
certainly cheap enough insurance. Water-cooled boxer engines, by their
very design (talk to a VW mechanic about their adventures w/ the
Wasserboxer if you think Subies are bad!), seem to be hard on head
gaskets... so what's to hurt?

Rick
Kevin Hall - 30 Jan 2007 20:28 GMT
As near as I can figure it the magic conditioner is little more than a 'Rad
Stop-Leak' deal which is being used to ease those engines past their
warranty period before they inevitably digest their head gaskets.

As one who has had the head gaskets done twice under warranty,  the second
time resulting in the replacement of the entire short block,  and once after
that at a non-Suby garage I can attest to the fact that there is indeed a
problem with the 2.5 head gaskets,  and that Subaru dealers have been less
than forthcoming about it.

Once I had the job done by my own garage using aftermarket gaskets rather
than the Suby ones,  the problem stopped.    My mechanic tells me that every
Suby on which he used o.e.m. gaskets developed leaks again,  and every one
on which he used aftermarket gaskets has not.

Neither of the two Subaru dealerships which did the job on our ' 99 Forester
did a proper job at it.  Both claimed to have had the heads magnafluxed and
skimmed to ensure flatness,  but when measured after that the heads were
still stock thickness,  clearly indicating that service managers at both
dealerships lied through their dentures.

The heads and block deck were scratched in a manner to suggest that someone
removed the residue from previous gaskets using a piece of 80 grit sandpaper
artistically wrapped around an index finger.

If I were in the position of the original poster I would use the conditioner
as prescribed as a term for warranty validity,  and as I neared the cut-off
date for warranty work I would have the engine leak-down tested on a regular
basis in order to try to spot gasket failure before the buggers can legally
deny you the job.

I love the Suby,  but their service in this part of Canada is the pits,  to
be kind.   The scarcity of dealerships here also poses a logistic problem
for warranty service.   Trips of 100 miles each way to the nearest dealer do
not improve ones' attitude once he gets to where he is about to be lied to.

KH

> So, what is in the magic Subaru Coolant Conditioner?  is it really needed?
Jeff - 30 Jan 2007 21:56 GMT
Can you add it between antifreeze changes for just when you flush and change
the system?  I didn't add it on the last change because my 02 wasn't part of
the recall.  Jeff

> As near as I can figure it the magic conditioner is little more than a
> 'Rad Stop-Leak' deal which is being used to ease those engines past their
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>> So, what is in the magic Subaru Coolant Conditioner?  is it really
>> needed?
strchild - 30 Jan 2007 22:01 GMT
Yes, and the instructions are right on the back of the cute, plastic, little
blue bottle the stuff comes in.  It basically says to remove an equal part
fluid then replace with the conditioner, so nothing world shattering.

~Brian

> Can you add it between antifreeze changes for just when you flush and
> change the system?  I didn't add it on the last change because my 02
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
>>> So, what is in the magic Subaru Coolant Conditioner?  is it really
>>> needed?
Oscar_Lives - 31 Jan 2007 00:30 GMT
I hear all the talk about the 2.5 engine.  What about the H6 3.0 liter?

My manual '07 Outback LL Bean says to use this stuff with each coolant
change, and the coolant needs to be changed every 30,000 miles (one a year,
the way we drive).  This seems a little excessive compared to the other car
manufacturers....

> As near as I can figure it the magic conditioner is little more than a
> 'Rad Stop-Leak' deal which is being used to ease those engines past their
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>> So, what is in the magic Subaru Coolant Conditioner?  is it really
>> needed?
strchild - 31 Jan 2007 02:09 GMT
>I hear all the talk about the 2.5 engine.  What about the H6 3.0 liter?

The 2.5 is a 4 cyl. and the 3.0 is a 6.  Larger engine block so will have
different dynamics for heat dissipation.  I haven't heard anything about the
3.0.  Anybody else hear anything about it?  I thought they eventually
overcame the problems with the 2.5, but I'm not sure which year.  Thought it
was around 03'.  Be I mistaken?

~Brian

> My manual '07 Outback LL Bean says to use this stuff with each coolant
> change, and the coolant needs to be changed every 30,000 miles (one a
> year, the way we drive).  This seems a little excessive compared to the
> other car manufacturers....
M.J. - 31 Jan 2007 02:58 GMT
> I thought they eventually overcame the problems with the 2.5, but I'm not
> sure which year.  Thought it was around 03'.  Be I mistaken?

That was in 2006.

In 2005 it was '02, in 2004 in '01, in 2003 was '00.

In 2007 it's gooto be '04, i.e. last model year with 2.5l engine
headgasket problems.  In 2008 it will be '05, and so on.

You get my point! I would recommend staying away from the 2.5l
permanently.  I regret not purchasing the last model year 2.2l (2001)
or 2.0 turbo engine. SAAB-Subaru still had these 2.0L just two years
ago I think.

M.J.
 
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