Car Forum / Subaru Cars / August 2007
Breaking in a New Car
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houndman@phonom.net - 23 Aug 2007 20:28 GMT what's the latest theory on breaking them in? Last I remember was no sustained high speeds for 1K mi, or something like that. May be picking up a car 120mi away, and the Interstate would be quicker, but I'm thinking secondary roads, and maybe stopping and letting it cool down often. Don't need no head gasket blowing.(((
VF
Jim Stewart - 23 Aug 2007 21:15 GMT > what's the latest theory on breaking them in? Last I remember was no > sustained high speeds for 1K mi, or something like that. May be > picking up a car 120mi away, and the Interstate would be quicker, but > I'm thinking secondary roads, and maybe stopping and letting it cool > down often. Don't need no head gasket blowing.((( I'd stay on the main road and not give it a second thought.
We've never really worried about break in other than being meticulous about the first couple oil changes. Moderately hard running should seat the rings better than babying it.
The last new car we bought was my wife's WRX. Since it had been on the lot as a demo for a couple hundred miles, we can only guess how it had been driven (:
AS - 23 Aug 2007 22:21 GMT AFAIK the procedure continues to be the same.
I would jump on the interstate but would change the speed up and down from the 40 or so interstate minimun speed all the way to 70 or so, avoiding a constant speed.
I continue to think that the initial 1000 miles are critical for all components, including pistons, bearings, rings, cylinder, transmission, etc etc., so I would baby it as specified in the owners manual. The surfaces of all materials that slide over something else will be lapped during the break in period.
Congrats on your new car
Good luck
> what's the latest theory on breaking them in? Last I remember was no > sustained high speeds for 1K mi, or something like that. May be [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > VF houndman@phonom.net - 23 Aug 2007 22:40 GMT > AFAIK the procedure continues to be the same. > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > - Show quoted text - It's Not Sube Yet, till I pay for it, and get it.
What is strange, I am planing on upping my Ins coverage. With an AWD car? Guess I'm not that confident, but maybe because I plan to disconnect the ABS and air bags.))
VF
Frank - 23 Aug 2007 23:37 GMT >> AFAIK the procedure continues to be the same. >> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > VF Owner's manual should tell you - if you can read. You don't seem too bright to me ;) Frank
houndman@phonom.net - 23 Aug 2007 23:54 GMT > hound...@phonom.net wrote: > >> AFAIK the procedure continues to be the same. [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > - Show quoted text - DUH... gota a manuell I can peruze mo on. Ty idn't ive me oen wen I ent to ook at the ars. I have factory shop manual. Will that tell me? Didn't think so. ..
You must like air bags and ABS. Not Me!!
Todd H. - 24 Aug 2007 00:44 GMT > You must like air bags and ABS. Not Me!! I'm sure all the guys who dislike ABS think they can brake more effectively in an emergency situation.
Betcha only, oh, I'll be generous--maybe 10% actually can.
-- Todd H. 2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4 Chicago, Illinois USA
Bonehenge (B A R R Y) - 24 Aug 2007 00:56 GMT >> You must like air bags and ABS. Not Me!! > >I'm sure all the guys who dislike ABS think they can brake more >effectively in an emergency situation. > >Betcha only, oh, I'll be generous--maybe 10% actually can. If ABS wasn't an advantage, it wouldn't be illegal in certain racing bodies. <G>
houndman@phonom.net - 24 Aug 2007 07:28 GMT On 23 Aug, 22:56, "Bonehenge (B A R R Y)" <DwightSchr...@DunderMifflin.com> wrote:
> >hound...@phonom.net writes: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > If ABS wasn't an advantage, it wouldn't be illegal in certain racing > bodies. <G> If ABS is illegal in racing, does that mean it is an advantage, and they do they want drivers to crash into each other??)) I Think they might not feel it is better, or they would all have it. Wonder why FWD models are made to into RWD in race cars? What about air bags.?? Surviving 200mph crashes without them, and a 5 or 6point harness sounds safe to me.
I put seat belts in an old car when they started coming out in new ones. I used to add all the police options when buying a new car, like brakes and suspension parts, and opted for oversized brakes with no power assist, because the brake boost made them too sensitive. Thank god that cars are now made to have more feel in steering and brakes, and ride firmer, which I find more comfortable, and less fatiguing.
VF
Bonehenge (B A R R Y) - 24 Aug 2007 21:59 GMT > If ABS is illegal in racing, does that mean it is an advantage, and >they do they want drivers to crash into each other??)) No, not having it puts more emphasis on driver skill, resulting in slower overall speeds.
If nobody has it, everybody goes slower.
houndman@phonom.net - 25 Aug 2007 01:21 GMT On 24 Aug, 19:59, "Bonehenge (B A R R Y)" <DwightSchr...@DunderMifflin.com> wrote:
> > If ABS is illegal in racing, does that mean it is an advantage, and > >they do they want drivers to crash into each other??)) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > If nobody has it, everybody goes slower. and I thought Restrictor Plates were what lowerd the speeds. Learn something new every day.) ) )
VF
Bonehenge (B A R R Y) - 25 Aug 2007 12:19 GMT >and I thought Restrictor Plates were what lowerd the speeds. Learn >something new every day.) ) ) There are other racing bodies besides NASCAR. Restrictor plates fit fuel injected cars poorly.
Some race cars even turn right and left during every race, not just once or twice a year.
houndman@phonom.net - 26 Aug 2007 01:45 GMT On 25 Aug, 10:19, "Bonehenge (B A R R Y)" <DwightSchr...@DunderMifflin.com> wrote:
> >and I thought Restrictor Plates were what lowerd the speeds. Learn > >something new every day.) ) ) [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Some race cars even turn right and left during every race, not just > once or twice a year. yea, but Rt & Lt hand turn races usually don't get to as high a speed. You mean they have ABS and air bags?
Bonehenge (B A R R Y) - 26 Aug 2007 11:52 GMT >yea, but Rt & Lt hand turn races usually don't get to as high a speed. So, these can't possibly go as fast as a stock car? <http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/understanding_the_sport/>
Note the brake box.
Bonehenge (B A R R Y) - 24 Aug 2007 22:02 GMT >Wonder why >FWD models are made to into RWD in race cars? Handling, especially drifting. Not to mention that a high powered car squats onto the rear wheels during acceleration. You also notice that AWD is banned by some sanctioning bodies.
>What about air bags.?? >Surviving 200mph crashes without them, and a 5 or 6point harness >sounds safe to me. I'm all for serious harnesses, but it's hard to reach the cupholder without an inertial lock. <G>
houndman@phonom.net - 25 Aug 2007 01:11 GMT > >Wonder why > >FWD models are made to into RWD in race cars? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I'm all for serious harnesses, but it's hard to reach the cupholder > without an inertial lock. <G> don't drink & drive.)) I like keeping my eyes on the road and my hands on the wheel. When I'm driving, I'm driving
I plan to leave the 3 point belts for neighborhood driving. One concern is, like when a friend fell asleep at the wheel, and ran into a medial strip that was across the roadway, to funnel traffic to the other side of the road during construction . It was like he hit a wall at speed. He wasn't wearing any belts, and said he might be dead or more seriously injured than he was, because he said the steering wheel wound up in the back seat. He slid under the dash and busted up both knees.
I'm lookig at cam lock harneses, which should be easy to unlock and lean over, if something is headed for my head or mouth, like a sip of something.
Called Ins co today for premiums, and thay asked if the car had ABS and air bags. Yes.. & Yes..)) Odd that they want you to have them but they Claim they don't help. Oh, well...
VF
VF
Bonehenge (B A R R Y) - 25 Aug 2007 12:22 GMT > Called Ins co today for premiums, and thay asked if the car had ABS >and air bags. Yes.. & Yes..)) Odd that they want you to have them but >they Claim they don't help. Oh, well... The insurance company claims ABS and airbags don't help?
houndman@phonom.net - 25 Aug 2007 01:19 GMT > >Wonder why > >FWD models are made to into RWD in race cars? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I'm all for serious harnesses, but it's hard to reach the cupholder > without an inertial lock. <G> LOL.. Renault Le Car's squat when accelerating. More the Front Lifts. That taught me about the traction of FWD cars, and accelerating from a stop when I saw it, especially with slick surfaces.
Yea, Idealy I guess I'd want the rear wheels only driven for acceleration, All driven for conering, and the fronts only for cruising, and all wheels for passing. I'll have a test bed to try it on.))
VF
hippo - 25 Aug 2007 15:09 GMT "Bonehenge (B A R R Y)" <DwightSchrute@[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Aug 23, 2007 at 07:56 PM
>On 23 Aug 2007 19:05:16 -0500, subaru@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Todd H.) wrote:
>>houndman@[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>>> You must like air bags and ABS. Not Me!! >> >>I'm sure all the guys who dislike ABS think they can brake more >>effectively in an emergency situation. >> >>Betcha only, oh, I'll be generous--maybe 10% actually can.
>If ABS wasn't an advantage, it wouldn't be illegal in certain racing >bodies. <G> I can probably cadence brake to a standstill in a shorter distance than an ABS system can stop the same car in the same conditions *BUT* there's not a lot in it and more importantly I can't steer at the same time without ABS - IMO *that's* the advantage to the majority of drivers if they'd bother learning how to use it effectively.
BTW, given that's the main advantage of ABS, whty the hell would anyone disconnect it from the *front* wheels when they steer the car? Maybe he shouldn't stop there. Why not revert to fwd and take out the air conditioner, seatbelts, radials, disk brakes. Stuff it, why not just buy a '26 Chev and be done with all this poofy modern stuff? Cheers
houndman@phonom.net - 26 Aug 2007 01:53 GMT > "Bonehenge (B A R R Y)" <DwightSchrute@[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Aug 23, 2007 at > 07:56 PM [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > conditioner, seatbelts, radials, disk brakes. Stuff it, why not just buy a > '26 Chev and be done with all this poofy modern stuff? Cheers weeeell, pickups used to have ABS in Just the rear. May still. Figure I can manage the fronts locking easier than the rears, and in a turn, that lighter rear will be coming around if the rears lock.
26' Chevy eh? Lots of shows on recently about 32 Fords. I think they looked similar. I'll give them a look see. No computers in them right? I never wanted to see them again till the Prestolite CD unit I put in a new car in 62' Quit after 6mo, at the top of a suspension bridge going into NJ. I coasted down and off it, and disconnected it. Threw it Off the bridge on the way home.))
VF
hippo - 28 Aug 2007 09:28 GMT houndman@phonom.net Aug 25, 2007 at 05:53 PM
>> "Bonehenge (B A R R Y)" <DwightSchrute@[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Aug 23, 2007 at
>> 07:56 PM >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >>Stuff it, why not just buy a >> '26 Chev and be done with all this poofy modern stuff? Cheers
>weeeell, pickups used to have ABS in Just the rear. May still. Figure >I can manage the fronts locking easier than the rears, and in a turn, >that lighter rear will be coming around if the rears lock.
>26' Chevy eh? Lots of shows on recently about 32 Fords. I think they >looked similar. I'll give them a look see. No computers in them right? >I never wanted to see them again till the Prestolite CD unit I put in >a new car in 62' Quit after 6mo, at the top of a suspension bridge >going into NJ. I coasted down and off it, and disconnected it. Threw >it Off the bridge on the way home.))
>VF Properly set up brake system with a decent proportioning valve would stop the rears locking up unladen in the first place. Loaded it isn't a problem. Same with suspensions about 80 years ahead of leaf springs so all the wheels stay on the ground all the time in all condiitons.
ABS is bloody useful used as intended but it woun't suspend the laws of physics. People trying to do a crash brake and 3 lane S swerve at 150Km/h are going to come unstuck and quite probably fall over!
There used to be a guy in Sydney ran a 26 Chev as a taxi truck until at least the mid 90s. Original owner and a miserable old coot. Some of the very faded original paint was still on it with a fair bit of bare metal and the absolute bare minimum spent on anything for at least 30 years. Last time I saw it it was with a diferent owner fully restored but still with a taxi truck plate.
Looked a bit like this one while in daily use!
http://www.stovebolt.com/gallery/lupton_si_1926.htm
Cheers :)
houndman@phonom.net - 24 Aug 2007 08:01 GMT > hound...@phonom.net writes: > > You must like air bags and ABS. Not Me!! [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > 2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4 > Chicago, Illinois USA In 45 yrs of driving I only hit one car, a young girl who hit her brakes, and looked like she was going to stop at a 1 way stop sign, but came out behind a parked car right in front of me.
I always went for the biggest brakes available on a car, and tires that gripped in the rain, or I drove accordingly. I passed on buying a 84-86' Mustang SVO that I am still looking at 20yrs later, because Ford put GYear Gatorbacks on it, and they were terrible in the rain. After owing a car that had Great brakes, I bought a set of cheap pads, because the car was old, and it never stopped so well. Now I want pads that wear out fast, and stop me car lengths shorter when applying the pedal like the harder pads need. First time I stopped with them at speed, I stopped 6 lengths shorter than I used to. They don't last as long but Sure DO Stop.
Coming off an off ramp of an interstate that was slushy, but iced from braking I doubt that ABS would have helped, Since I Read that they Don't stop as fast on ice which I Thought was their Main advantage. With a car braking like mad in front of me, because a car ahead was sideways, I had NO traction, and turning the wheel did nothing. I had a choice of trying to grind the fender of my new car off on the medial strip, or taking out the 55gal drums narrowing the lane. I opted for the drums and inched over onto unslicked snow or sleet, and luckily didn't have to mess up my car, because the cars ahead got moving.
Give me BIG brakes, and Good tires, and I'll take my chances, AND I Like to be able to Lock the wheels When I want to.)) We can debate whether hard pads against metal rotors that generate gas, will stop a car faster than 3-5K lbs pushing down or rubber tires grinding against asphalt or concrete. Since I keep reading that Non ABS cars will stop shorter, I think grinding rubber is better. Being able to steer while braking doesn't sound like much advantage when rollovers are higher with ABS, and with non ABS you can choose.
VF
Bugalugs - 24 Aug 2007 09:05 GMT >> hound...@phonom.net writes: >>> You must like air bags and ABS. Not Me!! [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > VF And how was that statistic qualified ??
It can also be said that more cars with 4 wheels rollover that those with 3 wheels. Even though 3 wheels would appear to be more unstable.
David - 24 Aug 2007 13:53 GMT > Give me BIG brakes, and Good tires, and I'll take my chances, AND I >Like to be able to Lock the wheels When I want to.)) We can debate [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >VF Where do you live?
houndman@phonom.net - 24 Aug 2007 14:51 GMT > > Give me BIG brakes, and Good tires, and I'll take my chances, AND I > >Like to be able to Lock the wheels When I want to.)) We can debate [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Where do you live? LOL..why, you want to avoid me on the road??
I live in Philly, and debating whether to fill the hollow spaces behind the bumper covers so the Sube doesn't get torn up bumpers and busted tail lights like other cars, including my old Chevy, because people can't judge when pulling out of parallel parking spots. Got into an argument with a guy I know who said, You Have to hit the bumpers, when I commented how many times his must have been hit, because of all the missing paint on his rear bumpers, so I Guess He stops After he hits them also. I try to avoid all contact, and most people drive automatics. No wonder I want a 5M. I guess that was the motivation to build a car that Parks Itself. Today's cars are SO good they need Avoidance Radar. Night Vision I can see, so you don't hit deer or moose in the dark, but Avoidance Radar?? A breathilizer ignition switch should be First on the list of features.
VF
Frank - 25 Aug 2007 01:57 GMT >>> Give me BIG brakes, and Good tires, and I'll take my chances, AND I >>> Like to be able to Lock the wheels When I want to.)) We can debate [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > VF I live about 40 miles away in DE. If I had to drive the Sure Kill Expressway every day in Philly, I'd use all the protection I could get. Maybe even put in a roll bar ;)
Frank
Also, I'd be packing.
houndman@phonom.net - 26 Aug 2007 01:40 GMT > hound...@phonom.net wrote: > >>> Give me BIG brakes, and Good tires, and I'll take my chances, AND I [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I avoid the Sure Kill as much as I can. The river drives are much more fun.
I have been known to act a little crazy, if I encounter a dumb, crazy driver. I'll do Anything to get away from them, since they are an accident waiting to happen. I Do use my turn signals when taking evasive actions, even if made fast. Don't want to get tagged as one of Them...
VF
Frank - 24 Aug 2007 00:49 GMT >> hound...@phonom.net wrote: >>>> AFAIK the procedure continues to be the same. [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > You must like air bags and ABS. Not Me!! In my Forester manual it's under Driving Tips - Chapter 8. My car's 4 years old but calls for keeping rpms under 4,000 and not driving at constant speed for first 1,000 miles.
I do like airbags and ABS. Airbags in my first Forester may have saved me from being hospitalized when dingbat in PT Cruiser hit me head on. All I had was bruise from seat belt but she had to stay in hospital. OTOH both airbags going off probably contributed into car's being totaled which is what happens when repair estimate approaches blue book value.
Jim Stewart - 24 Aug 2007 19:08 GMT > It's Not Sube Yet, till I pay for it, and get it. > > What is strange, I am planing on upping my Ins coverage. With an AWD > car? Guess I'm not that confident, but maybe because I plan to > disconnect the ABS and air bags.)) I think you might be happier with a Honda.
houndman@phonom.net - 25 Aug 2007 01:23 GMT > hound...@phonom.net wrote: > > It's Not Sube Yet, till I pay for it, and get it. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I think you might be happier with a Honda. How about a GTO??))
Gareth - 27 Aug 2007 17:42 GMT > AFAIK the procedure continues to be the same. > > I would jump on the interstate but would change the speed up and down > from the 40 or so interstate minimun speed all the way to 70 or so, > avoiding a constant speed. I agree with this completely. I would do this without turning the engine off for about 100 miles. When you turn the car off, do an oil change immediately. You will be amazed at how many metal shavings and particles drain out. The rings are primarily set during this first hundred miles. Do another dino oil change at about 1500 miles. At about 5000 miles change over to fully synthetic. Change every 6000 thereafter. An engine broken in this way will be very efficient during the course of its life. Gas mileage, acceleration, etc.
gary
Todd H. - 27 Aug 2007 18:22 GMT > > AFAIK the procedure continues to be the same. > > I would jump on the interstate but would change the speed up and [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > An engine broken in this way will be very efficient during the course > of its life. Gas mileage, acceleration, etc. Subaru does not recommend such early oil changes. The car is shipped with special oil apparently to aid in breakin.
Least that's what Iv'e read in more than a few places.
-- Todd H. 2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4 Chicago, Illinois USA
Gareth - 27 Aug 2007 19:37 GMT >>> AFAIK the procedure continues to be the same. >>> I would jump on the interstate but would change the speed up and [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > 2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4 > Chicago, Illinois USA Maybe I am a cynic. Do manufactures want a car to last 300,000 miles, or would they prefer you to buy a new one every 150,000 or so?
hippo - 28 Aug 2007 09:01 GMT Gareth <gareth@capecod.net> Aug 27, 2007 at 02:37 PM
>>>> AFAIK the procedure continues to be the same. >>>> I would jump on the interstate but would change the speed up and [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >> 2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4 >> Chicago, Illinois USA
>Maybe I am a cynic. Do manufactures want a car to last 300,000 miles, or
>would they prefer you to buy a new one every 150,000 or so? Subaru *do* recommend leaving the delivery oil in until the first scheduled change to assist with running in. No they probably don't want your engine to last forever, but yes you probably are a cynic! :)
My 91 Liberty wagon was traded at 332,000Km and had great compression and *no* engine problems whatsoever. Current 99 Outback has 185,000Km. Both cars were private delivery and serviced every 12,500Km per Oz specs. Both ran Castrol Magnatec from its introduction 9 (?) years ago. Only prob with Outback was a big oil bill following a change done with Repsol synthetic. A leak that I couldn't trace to its source used about 3L in 2000Km. Added a seal swell which seems to have stopped the leak and will revert to Magnatec at next change. Cheers
Rep@factory.invalid - 24 Aug 2007 08:18 GMT Short and sweet;
I understand some people's dislike of ABS, so I leave that to you.
I used to be involved in car crash testing and structural integrity.
In an accident with another car or object, there are two collisions, the "primary" collision and the "secondary" collision.
In the primary collision, there is usually no damage to the occupants of the car (there are exceptions of course like legs being crushed, etc.). But in most accidents, it is the secondary collision which causes most personal damage or death.
Secondary collision is when the occupants of the vehicle continue moving forward at the same speed the car was traveling before the car was slowed down or stopped by the collision and smash into the part of the car in front of them inside the car. The dashboard, the windshield, even the seat belts.
Seat belts help, but if you imagine being held in the air suspended by your seat belts with you facing downwards, imagine how your body would start to feel and sustain damage when your weight is multiplied by 10 to over 40 times. At a deceleration at 10G's (10 times your weight), a 175 pound person feels like they have almost 1600 pounds crushing them into the seat belts. At a higher speed collision producing 40G's, the force is almost 7000 pounds against the belts. Not a healthy situation.
One of the men in our company was in an accident which was later computed to have produced almost 50G's. He had his seat belts on and sustained, among other things, 2 completely crushed and broken hips from the seat belts.
Air bags work because they provide a barrier between the car interior and your body and they spread the impact forces over a larger area of your body, rather than just the contacts points of a seatbelt.
If you total your car because of the air bag costs, then at least they probably saved you or a passenger from being seriously harmed or even "totalled".
Before disconnecting the air bags, consider that you may have passenger(s) or have loaned the car to another person when an accident might occur. You are making a choice about their safety as well as yours.
If you have an accident, you don't have to install new air bags (as far as I know, legally?) and then you can decide what to do with the car. Just please don't sell it to someone else without their knowing that the air bags have been blown.
Just my two cents worth,
The Ole Factory Rep (not Subaru)
P.S. I won't even go into the story of an acquaintance down in the South who said, when seat belts became mandatory, "I'd rather be thrown clear" (of the car in an accident). I think they are still looking for his body<g>.
houndman@phonom.net - 28 Aug 2007 14:48 GMT On 23 Aug, 18:28, hound...@phonom.net wrote:
> what's the latest theory on breaking them in? Last I remember was no > sustained high speeds for 1K mi, or something like that. May be [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > VF Bought the 2.5i 5M wagon yesterday but not 120mi away. Hadn't driven one on a highway, so wanted to before I paid. Had it out for about 2 hrs, driving on all kind of roads and speeds. Pushed it a little at times. Too much happening to watch the revs. Car had the armrest console that Had to go, unless I wanted to rest my arm on it, and shift the 5sp with my wrist. Opened the lid which helped a little, and then saw the whole thing tilted back, so tilted it.. Will take some time getting used to visability restrictions. Back seat head rests blocked some view, so seat backs have to go down.
Brake pedal was soft, and clutch grabbed low. The clutch pedal saftey switch was annoying, since the pedal had to be depressed all the way. The clutch grabbed abruptly sometimes, and wondered if the AWD had something to do with it? Haven't driven a manual in 25yrs, but it doesn't take long to remember. I didn't notice the pedals working the same, in 2 others I tested about 7 weeks ago. the brake pedal was soft, and a tech in the showrrom said ABS is like that... If they tell me they All work like that, I'm gona ask to drive another one. The dealer still has it to check the items.
VF
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