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Car Forum / Subaru Cars / February 2008Overheating Subaru Legacy AWD Wagon...
1997 Subaru AWD wagon, "L" model, basic car. Replaced coolant and thermostat and ran car static for an hour at a time about 3 times. Would initially overheat (when I replaced the coolant), cold air coming from the heater, then heat started coming from the vents and the guage went down. As I was getting it ready to pass inspection I would run it for 40-60 minutes, temp guage rock-steady at half way, heat from the vents, etc. On the first drive yesterday, I got about 8 miles and it began overheating, after running static for about 40 mins with no problems. I shut it down and let it cool and drove it home. Sometimes raising the revs causes the temp to decrease, and sometimes to increase. Sometimes coasting cools the car off, and sometimes raises the temp. Putting it in neutral has no effect; it keeps getting warmer. When I opened the bleeder screw, pure steam was coming out of it. From the front of the car, the right side (driver's side) appears to have coolant in the lower radiator hose where the thermostat is, and the upper hose looks empty. I don't know what size the engine is. It came from the factory with a 2.2, but it has been replaced, with another 2.2? I was told the trans had been replaced with a FWD trans, but the sticker on the trans matches the VIN plate, which indicates AWD. Trans works great, car runs well, except for the overheating. I replaced the t-stat, and the one that was in there looked new also. I'll have it flushed sometime this week. Anyone seen this before, or have any idea what's going on here? It looks like a blockage somewhere. > 1997 Subaru AWD wagon, "L" model, basic car. Replaced coolant and > thermostat and ran car static for an hour at a time about 3 times. Would [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > Anyone seen this before, or have any idea what's going on here? It looks > like a blockage somewhere. Probably what is happening is that there is air in the cooling system, resulting in intermittent blockages. you need to bleed the air out. jeff >> 1997 Subaru AWD wagon, "L" model, basic car. Replaced coolant and >> thermostat and ran car static for an hour at a time about 3 times. Would [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > jeff Ya mon, I tried that! When I initially filled the radiator I would make sure it was full, then open it and let the air out, and then close it, making sure the bottle was full. It was 'drinking' from the overflow bottle quite nicely before it started overheating. Even while overheating it was filling the bottle to the top, and then when you shut it off it would drop the level in the bottle about an inch. Tried again today, making sure there wasn't any air (or trying to...) So what's the state of the water pump and head gasket? Is there strong flow when you pinch the upper hose? Good flow looking into the rad? Blown head gasket can give you the same symptoms. > Ya mon, I tried that! When I initially filled the radiator I would make > sure it was full, then open it and let the air out, and then close it, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Tried again today, making sure there wasn't any air (or trying to...) On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 19:33:01 -0800, johngdole wrote: > So what's the state of the water pump and head gasket? Is there strong > flow when you pinch the upper hose? Good flow looking into the rad? > Blown head gasket can give you the same symptoms. I think johngdole has hit the nail on the...er...*HEAD*... > On Nov 25, 7:24 pm, Hachiroku <Tru...@AE86.gts> wrote: >> Ya mon, I tried that! When I initially filled the radiator I would make [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> >> Tried again today, making sure there wasn't any air (or trying to...) > 1997 Subaru AWD wagon, "L" model, basic car. Replaced coolant and > thermostat and ran car static for an hour at a time about 3 times. Would [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > Anyone seen this before, or have any idea what's going on here? It looks > like a blockage somewhere. If you can get an exhaust sniffer, check for exhaust gas at the radiator neck. When you filled the coolant, you did have the heater set to full hot, right?  SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >>1997 Subaru AWD wagon, "L" model, basic car. Replaced coolant and >>thermostat and ran car static for an hour at a time about 3 times. Would [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > neck. When you filled the coolant, you did have the heater set to full hot, > right? Good post. I think he did more things correctly than most. The ONLY other thing to consider would be filling/burping the system with the front of the car elevated OR by using some type of vacuum device on the cooling system. I have also read of someone filling the system through a disconnected hose? The best may be to fill (heater on max) with the front on ramps or up a curb/whatever, rad cap off, run till fans come on/t'stat opens, check the radiator and fill, fill o'flow bottle to a little over the full line, put rad cap on, allow car to cool (overnight if necessary) repeat. If you do not repeat, make sure the o'flow is topped up to the line, drive car and monitor heat and coolant levels. If you still have problems - headgasket is the only thing left. Phase I 2.5 engines are notorious for that problem. A swapped engine may not have been 'purged' and could easily have a HG problem. Sometimes, comparing sparkplugs will show one that looks different. That cylinder may have coolant in to it on occasion from the bad HG. Bubbles in the radiator of combustion gasses is another. That why an exhaust sniffer would also be diagnostic. Carl Signatureto reply, change ( .not) to ( .net) maybe pressure test the cooling system. > maybe pressure test the cooling system. I would worry that pressure testing a 10 year old cooling system might create leaks in the radiator... SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >> maybe pressure test the cooling system. > > I would worry that pressure testing a 10 year old cooling system might > create leaks in the radiator... Engine has been replaced (don't know how many miles...) and radiator is new...all adding up to BHG... >> If you can get an exhaust sniffer, check for exhaust gas at the radiator >> neck. When you filled the coolant, you did have the heater set to full hot, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > consider would be filling/burping the system with the front of the car > elevated <SIGH> It was up on ramps...BHG I'm afraid... > >> If you can get an exhaust sniffer, check for exhaust gas at the radiator > >> neck. When you filled the coolant, you did have the heater set to full hot, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > <SIGH> It was up on ramps...BHG I'm afraid... Look under Subaru thermostat operation I might be able to help >> Anyone seen this before, or have any idea what's going on here? It looks >> like a blockage somewhere. > > If you can get an exhaust sniffer, check for exhaust gas at the radiator > neck. When you filled the coolant, you did have the heater set to full hot, > right? But of course I did! Well, after I started adding coolant... I'm afraid... "I caught the head gasket leaking in my 97 subaru a few years ago, at 96k. It cost me $650, and they replaced front and rear main seals at the same time for just the cost of the seals, somewheres around $50-75 each if I remember correctly. I knew something was wrong- no power, really poor gas milage, the engine sounded louder than normal, I was constantly topping off the oil and the car smelled differently overall." The engine runs really well, but after talking to a few mechanic friends and a Subaru service manager this begins to look like a BHG. One estimate is $600. The car has 336,000 miles on it, but runs well, everything works and minimal rust. I said if it had a major problem I was going to get rid of it. I think I'll take it for Mass state inspection and have them look at it. I go somewhere anal, so they'll tell me if there's anything else. Hey, $29 for a complete inspection?! >> If you can get an exhaust sniffer, check for exhaust gas at the radiator >> neck. When you filled the coolant, you did have the heater set to full hot, [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >somewhere anal, so they'll tell me if there's anything else. Hey, $29 for >a complete inspection?! Remember, Subaru boxer motor internals are right up there with Toyotas for being overbuilt to the point of bulletproof, and running practically forever - If the body and suspension are still good, might well be worth reworking the head gaskets and just keep driving it. When it rusts into two pieces, /then/ you can junk it. --<< Bruce >>-- On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 03:10:54 +0000, Hachiroku wrote: > 1997 Subaru AWD wagon, "L" model, basic car. Replaced coolant and > thermostat and ran car static for an hour at a time about 3 times. Would [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > Anyone seen this before, or have any idea what's going on here? It looks > like a blockage somewhere. From another web site: "Common symptoms: Overheating, often when slowing or stopped after extended high load driving. " Sort of, although it's not random... "The overheating can be seemingly random and sporadic." Nah, it's pretty steady! "Bubbles in coolant overflow reservoir, immediately after running." Nope...steam in the radiator! "Sludgy residue in coolant overflow tank." Hmmmm...the original coolant didn't look good when I drained it out... it was kinda dark...I thought perhaps there was just gunk in the motor... "Hydrocarbons in coolant overflow tank, this is tested by a mechanic with specialized equipment and is not evident visually." Having this looked at Wednesday... Is there any way I can check this myself? > On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 03:10:54 +0000, Hachiroku wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > > Is there any way I can check this myself? If you have an electronic gas sniffer, you can stick the probe into the radiator neck or overflow tank. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >> "Hydrocarbons in coolant overflow tank, this is tested by a mechanic with >> specialized equipment and is not evident visually." [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > radiator neck or overflow tank. > -- Way ahead of you, Ray! Brought it for MA state inspection (remember those?) He put the gas sniffer for the tailpipe in the filler neck and there were PLENTY of hydrocarbons coming out through the radiator!!! >>> "Hydrocarbons in coolant overflow tank, this is tested by a mechanic >>> with [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > those?) He put the gas sniffer for the tailpipe in the filler neck and > there were PLENTY of hydrocarbons coming out through the radiator!!! Yup, I remember MA state inspections. I was driving a hard plated pool Cressida (not my regular company car)and got pulled over in downtown Boston for not having an inspection sticker on the car. Since the car was registered to the company, the officer was kind enough to issue the ticket to the company instead of me. As far as the Legacy, my advice is to dump it unless Subaru has made some kind of improvement in the design to prevent future reoccurrences. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) > On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 03:10:54 +0000, Hachiroku wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > Is there any way I can check this myself? Hi, Is the fan running when temp rises? >> Having this looked at Wednesday... >> >> Is there any way I can check this myself? >> > Hi, > Is the fan running when temp rises? Everything works but the Head Gasket!!! ;) > 1997 Subaru AWD wagon, "L" model, basic car. Replaced coolant and > thermostat and ran car static for an hour at a time about 3 times. Would [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > Anyone seen this before, or have any idea what's going on here? It looks > like a blockage somewhere. Hi, Was it OK before you did the work? Or you worked on it for overheating problem> >> Anyone seen this before, or have any idea what's going on here? It looks >> like a blockage somewhere. >> > Hi, > Was it OK before you did the work? > Or you worked on it for overheating problem> I walked into this thing cold, being told it was overheating. After seeing all the new parts, I knew it wasn't going to be easy. BHG... > 1997SubaruAWD wagon, "L" model, basic car. > > On the first drive yesterday, I got about 8 miles and it began > overheating, after running static for about 40 mins with no problems. .... I have been struggling since August with very similar problems with a '98 Legacy Outback, 2.5L engine. The problem appeared after I replaced a broken heater hose. To make a very long story short, the cooling system now seems incapable of handling the transition from high load, high coolant flow conditions (e.g. highway driving) to light load, low flow (e.g. suddenly slowing down in traffic). The temperature gauge will spike from the normal 9 o'clock position to offscale hot in about 30 seconds. If you see this happening and immediately place the car in neutral and rev the engine to about 4,000RPM, the system will usually recover, with the temperature gauge dropping back to below 9 o'clock within 30 seconds. If you don't catch it fast enough, the coolant will boil over. The car has no problem cooling during extended driving in stop and go traffic on hot summer days, only the transitions bother it. It appears the thermostat can't open fast enough to deal with the changing load- but no thermostat is going to respond on a timescale of seconds. The cooling system was pressure tested by a local garage, who found no problem. Drilling a few 1/8" bypass holes in the thermostat flange to allow some coolant flow even when the thermostat is closed seems to have provided a solution to the problem, but with temperatures often going to -20C here the engine doesn't warm up properly. (It's worth noting that in a post a few years back the owner of a used Legacy of this vintage discovered the thermostat had been removed, and found overheating problems when a new thermostat was installed). I have filled the cooling system as slowly and carefully as I can, including extended running at idle with the radiator cap off to "burp" the system. The burping seems to go on for a long, long time, suggesting it is very difficult to get air out of the system. If anyone has a solution to this strange problem, I'd really appreciate hearing it. In the meantime I'm living with the bypassed thermostat. Garry > I have been struggling since August with very similar problems with a > '98 Legacy Outback, 2.5L engine. The problem appeared after I [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > thermostat can't open fast enough to deal with the changing load- but > no thermostat is going to respond on a timescale of seconds. This sounds very much like what happened when I changed the thermostat in my '94 Acclaim 3.0L. I found that the old thermostat had a considerably bigger orifice; I believe the smaller orifice on the new 'stat is restricting flow somewhat. SignatureDec. 6 (Bloomberg) -- Government officials and activists flying to Bali, Indonesia, for the United Nations meeting on climate change will cause as much pollution as 20,000 cars in a year. > On Nov 25, 10:10 pm, Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B <Tru...@AE86.gts> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > Garry It certainly sounds like you're doing a lot of the right things. Um, are you certain the 'burping' is done with the heat set on 'max' and have you changed the radiator cap? Can't really think of anything else - maybe someone will have some more suggestions. Carl Signatureto reply, change ( .not) to ( .net) I had a very similar problem once on my 98 outback. It ended up being the thermostat - I changed it once because the car wouldn't heat up and then it began overheating. It turned out to be a faulty thermostat so i got an OEM one from the subaru garage and it solved my problems. Although, you've already replaced your thermostat I'd recommend trying a second one - I was about ready to replace my water pump and had already had my radiator checked for blockages before I changed the thermostat a second time. According to the radiator shop where I had my radiator checked, faulty thermostats are common - the guy told me a story of having to buy four once before getting one that worked. I tried a new radiator cap- no improvement. I've been "burping" parked on a steep incline with the rad higher than the engine and the heat on max, although I think coolant always circulates in the heater core no matter what the heater setting. The new thermostat (second source) and the Subaru original showed identical behaviour when heated in water, both opening nicely at the temperature stamped on the thermostat. I suspect both are working as designed. The Subaru thermostat has a slightly larger aperture. The car is not consuming coolant so I think the head gasket is OK. Even after repeated "burping" sessions there are still bubbles appearing, so I suspect it is very difficult to bleed the air from the system. Thanks, Garry > Um, are you certain the 'burping' is done with the heat set on 'max' and > have you changed the radiator cap? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Carl > n...@doe.carleton.ca wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > -- > to reply, change ( .net) to ( .net) There must be something wrong with the heater hose Read subaru thermostat operation Michael |
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