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Car Forum / Subaru Cars / December 2007Question about wheels and offsets
Back to another Subaru I have. The wheels rub against the calipers in the front. Hey, they fit, they're the right diameter, what gives?! They're also rusty, so I am trying to replace them. In the course of looking for used wheels for an '89 Suby GL hacthback (NOT the Brat-looking hatch, the Loyale looking hatch) I have run across 5 sets of wheels! The Brat-looking hatch has one that it shares with the Brat looking wagon, the Loyale has another, the Legacy has another, and the GL hatch has another. I think what happened was that someone didn't know the difference and put a set of 2WD offset wheels (Yeah, it appears to make a difference) on an AWD GL Hatch. These wheels are HARD to find; it looks like I can put Brat 8-spokes on it according to the Subaru parts book for 1989. Aside from this, and finding the proper wheels, is there another way to get the proper offset? I was thinking of wheel spacers; I only need 2-5mm space (I think the difference is 48mm for the 2WD wheel and 50mm for the AWD wheel). It has that wonky 4x140 bolt pattern. Is there a safe way to 'shim' the wheels to get a few more mm of offset? I think what you have is an early set of Subaru wheels. Recall reading about how the very early wheels (pre 1985) would not fit the later years for the reason you described. Any wheel from 85 to 94 should fit perfectly. Forget about shimming the wheels. -- Message posted using http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.subaru/ More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote: > Back to another Subaru I have. The wheels rub against the calipers in the > front. Hey, they fit, they're the right diameter, what gives?! [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Is there a safe way to 'shim' the wheels to get a few more mm of offset? Like john said, using spacers could very well stress the wheel bearing AND create an unsafe lug nut fitment. maybe other bad stuff too. There MAY be some Peugeot wheels that will fit??? The guys over at www.ultimatesubaru.org seems to have a lot of experience keeping older soobs on the road. You might find someone with advice or even wheels for sale too. Carl  Signatureto reply, change ( .not) to ( .net) > Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > There MAY be some Peugeot wheels that will fit??? Peugeot rims are generally only used to go from 13" to 14" and although 504 rims do fit I don't think the offset is spot on anyway, and you have to find the special lug nut washers so you can actually secure them properly. Other Peugeot rims do fit but often more hassle than it's worth. If you were keen enough to go for 15" for example you have to be sure you do get 15" rims and not TRX metric rims as was common on Pugs (very limited choice in tyres and VERY expensive). Speedline do (or used to) make a 14" rim for them, and there is a company here in Australia that makes a 14" rim with the correct offset. http://www.scorpionsubaru.com/ James > The guys over at www.ultimatesubaru.org seems to have a lot of experience > keeping older soobs on the road. You might find someone with advice or > even wheels for sale too. > > Carl Even if the diameter, width, offset, etc. are the same, the shape of the wheel might need to be different to fit over a particular caliper. This was a common problem when american cars changed from drum brakes to disk brakes. "Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B" wrote: > Back to another Subaru I have. The wheels rub against the calipers in the > front. Hey, they fit, they're the right diameter, what gives?! [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Is there a safe way to 'shim' the wheels to get a few more mm of offset? SignatureMike Walsh West Palm Beach, Florida, U.S.A. > Back to another Subaru I have. The wheels rub against the calipers in the > front. Hey, they fit, they're the right diameter, what gives?! [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Is there a safe way to 'shim' the wheels to get a few more mm of offset? Do not shim the wheels, as all sorts of problems, from balancing, wheel bearing wear, handling, etc. You can try looking up different replacement wheels for various Subaru models at tirerack.com to see which ones have the same fit. They may also have specs on offset, bolt pattern, etc. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >> Is there a safe way to 'shim' the wheels to get a few more mm of offset? >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > models at tirerack.com to see which ones have the same fit. They may also > have specs on offset, bolt pattern, etc. These are those weird Suby wheels with the 4x140 bolt pattern. They stopped this configuration in '90-92 and they're hard to find! There is a method of 'adapting' a 5x100 hub onto the car, but it's going to cost 2x what the car cost! (and 3x what it's worth!) Maybe if it looked like *THIS* I'd do it! http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2355272750067339125XvxVly >>> Is there a safe way to 'shim' the wheels to get a few more mm of offset? >>> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2355272750067339125XvxVly Yup, that ride appears to be in good condition! All sorts of stuff came up when I googled "Subaru wheel spacers" but most of it is over $150. Of course, you can get a pneumatic die grinder to go with your new compressor and grind the caliper - just kidding! SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >>>> Is there a safe way to 'shim' the wheels to get a few more mm of offset? >>>> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > course, you can get a pneumatic die grinder to go with your new compressor > and grind the caliper - just kidding! That's actually an option. My memory might (hell probably is!) be wrong but IIRC, this wasn't an uncommon thing to do on american hotrods years ago. The one that comes to mind is converting eary Mustangs to disk brakes while keeping the factory styled-steel rims. They'd take off almost a quarter inch. On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 00:27:31 GMT, Hachiroku ???? <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote: >Back to another Subaru I have. The wheels rub against the calipers in the >front. Hey, they fit, they're the right diameter, what gives?! [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >Is there a safe way to 'shim' the wheels to get a few more mm of offset? For only 5mm or 1/4" I wouldn't worry about upsetting the wheel bearings that much with the offset change - that would come into play if you grossly changed it so the loads were overhung an inch or two. The thing to worry more about is shearing off wheel studs or not having enough threads to properly engage the lug nuts, then they strip the last few threads and come off - you might need to change to longer studs to make sure there are enough threads. If you can't find pre-made spacers, I'd have a machine shop (or a specialty CNC abrasive water-jet cutting shop) cut them out of 1/4" steel plate. (The plates can be sent out to be "Blanchard Ground" flat and parallel if you really think it will make a difference, but you need to go up in thickness to allow for the grinding.) --<< Bruce >>-- > If you can't find pre-made spacers, I'd have a machine shop (or a > specialty CNC abrasive water-jet cutting shop) cut them out of 1/4" steel > plate. (The plates can be sent out to be "Blanchard Ground" flat and > parallel if you really think it will make a difference, but you need to go > up in thickness to allow for the grinding.) But is this going to cost more than $50? >> If you can't find pre-made spacers, I'd have a machine shop (or a >>specialty CNC abrasive water-jet cutting shop) cut them out of 1/4" steel [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > But is this going to cost more than $50? Hi, Zero $ for something like that, LOL! My son-in-law owns s big CNC shop! Looking at OP id. 86 in Japanese, does it mean his car is 1986 model? I never owned a car/truck more than 10 years old. Shouldn't car that old be sent to junk yard? Let the economy roll. Or why not just get a new set of proper rims anf forget about it. It's kinda safety issue. > Hi, > Zero $ for something like that, LOL! My son-in-law owns s big CNC shop! > Looking at OP id. 86 in Japanese, does it mean his car is 1986 model? > I never owned a car/truck more than 10 years old. Shouldn't car that old > be sent to junk yard? I'm just gonna assume that that was meant in a joking manner... my car is an '88, my pickup is a '93, and my second car is a '55! Save the environment, drive an old car! nate Signaturereplace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >> Hi, >> Zero $ for something like that, LOL! My son-in-law owns s big CNC shop! [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > nate Hmmm, Old car like those pollute a lot! Newer cars are greener and safer! We always drive AWD with all the bells and whistles for safety first. I look after them alway in original condition. I do most work on them. I no longer have any truck since I sold my 5th wheel camping trailer. I built a cabin instead. Currently 4 cars in the family. Subaru, Honda, Suzuki. All farly new. > Hmmm, > Old car like those pollute a lot! The '85 Corolla GT-S turns almost the same numbers on the Environmental tester as it did when it was new. There's a lot to be said for maintenance. It has 260,000 miles on it... Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote: >> Hmmm, >> Old car like those pollute a lot! > > The '85 Corolla GT-S turns almost the same numbers on the Environmental > tester as it did when it was new. There's a lot to be said for > maintenance. It has 260,000 miles on it... Have you tried carpart.com and seen how many yards have those wheels? I punched it in locally and they have tons of them starting at 15 bucks each! SignatureSteve W. Near Cooperstown, New York Life is not like a box of chocolates it's more like a jar of jalapenos- what you do today could burn your a.s tomorrow! > Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > punched it in locally and they have tons of them starting at 15 bucks > each! Where are you at? I'm in New England and they're hit or miss; a few at ~$20 but more like $30 up... There is one yard that delivers to the town where I live, and they had them for about $20. >>> Hi, >>> Zero $ for something like that, LOL! My son-in-law owns s big CNC shop! [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >I built a cabin instead. Currently 4 cars in the family. Subaru, Honda, >Suzuki. All farly new. No, older cars /in bad mechanical condition/ pollute a lot. If you keep them in good shape and fix the little things as they break, you can keep a car or truck on the road practically forever, and your per-mile costs of driving can go way down. Some people do not choose to pay a lot more just to drive a new car every three or four years. They work to live, not live to work. Buy a new car and you take a huge hit for depreciation, tags and title, the pension and benefits cost at the manufacturer and dealer, a portion of the car salesman's new ski boat, etc. etc. etc. And your monthly costs for insurance are much higher, as any car with an airbag system costs more to insure - When you run the numbers, after the car is over about 3 to 4 years old if you get in an accident that deploys the airbags it's cheaper to total the car than fix it. Before you spend a dime on the bodywork and paint, just replacing the airbags and all the sensors and actuators after an accident is going to run you $3,000 bare minimum. If it has explosive primed seatbelt tensioners and side curtain airbags and all the toys, that could easily pass $5,000 when you factor in new seats and the trim panels that are destroyed during side curtain deployment. Oh, and you usually break the windshield and/or other window glass when the airbags blow and the air pressure inside the car spikes, there's another $600 - $1,500 in glass replacement costs. Having a new car with airbags will certainly decrease the injuries from an equivalent accident - but somebody has to pay for the greatly increased insurance costs, and that somebody is you, the car owner. --<< Bruce >>-- >>>>Hi, >>>>Zero $ for something like that, LOL! My son-in-law owns s big CNC shop! [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > --<< Bruce >>-- Hmmm, Knock on the wood. I've been driving over half a century. No accident, never got stranded on the road, yet. Just a few parking tickets. I replace my car when there is a sign of oil leak on the garage floor. That is more or less 10 years driving time. In my working days I drove company provided car of my choice which I looked after as if it were mine. >>> Hi, >>> Zero $ for something like that, LOL! My son-in-law owns s big CNC shop! [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > I built a cabin instead. Currently 4 cars in the family. Subaru, Honda, > Suzuki. All farly new. I disagree. It costs FAR more in energy and pollution to make a new car than it does to run an old one every day for 10 years or more. As for safety - yeah, the '55 has a straight, non-collapsible steering column pointing at my chest. So what? it's only myself that is at risk, and I don't drive like an asshat, and I've also made a few modifications for safety (lap belts, dual circuit master cylinder, later-model finned drums in front, later model sway bar in front and '55 sedan sway bar in back, HD springs, and most importantly radial tires on Chrysler cop car wheels) As for my newer car... well, it's a Porsche 944, passes emissions every year, and I feel confident driving it that I have a better chance of avoiding an incident than I do in the vast majority of newer cars simply because it handles like nobody's business. nate Signaturereplace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel > I disagree. It costs FAR more in energy and pollution to make a new car > than it does to run an old one every day for 10 years or more. As for Hi, Agreed. I saw some numbers on the Toyota Prius recently. Quite a surprise: whatever it "saves" while being driven was far more than made up for w/ manufacturing "costs" in the pollution and/or energy consumed departments. Adding all these costs together, driving a Prius for 100k miles was "costlier" to the environment than driving a similar sized gas-burner the same miles. Green? What a buzzword! We're not going to even TOUCH on being "green" until the world realizes irresponsible procreation is at the root of many, if not most, of our pollution woes and starts working on THAT issue. In the meantime, all too much of this is idle lip service and this fad will blow over to the "Next great thing to worry about" soon enough. I drive older cars. By choice. I have no kids. By choice. I ride my bicycles (even they're "old") instead of driving a car whenever practical, for my health as well as "environmental" considerations (which include my "economic environment.") Again, this is by choice. I think in making these choices and doing these things over the last four decades or so, I've done much more to "help save the world" than the guy down the street who just bought the brand new hybrid SUV to haul his five fat brats around. A microscopic view of the big picture's not all that helpful. Don't know what any of this has to do w/ wheel offsets, though. Rick >> Hi, >> Zero $ for something like that, LOL! My son-in-law owns s big CNC shop! [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > nate I will second that! I keep my 'old' Jeep tuned up well enough to get a nice 23 mpg (11L/100km or less) highway 'and' pass emissions 'with low numbers' too! Tuneups are cheap and easy on old beasts usually also, unlike some new cars where you have to pull the engine 'out' to change the plugs... Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 'New' frame in the works for '08. Some Canadian Bush Trip and Build Photos: http://mikeromainjeeptrips.shutterfly.com >>> If you can't find pre-made spacers, I'd have a machine shop (or a >>>specialty CNC abrasive water-jet cutting shop) cut them out of 1/4" [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > sent to junk yard? Let the economy roll. Or why not just get a new set of > proper rims anf forget about it. It's kinda safety issue. Hachiroku=AE86: http://www.pbase.com/mr_16v/hachiroku_pics http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hachi-roku And my favorite: http://www.ae86.hu/pics/JIro_Yamada.jpg 1985 Corolla GT-S Twin-Cam, owned since April of 1985, still running but rusty. Good catch on the 8-6, though... >>>> If you can't find pre-made spacers, I'd have a machine shop (or a >>>>specialty CNC abrasive water-jet cutting shop) cut them out of 1/4" [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Good catch on the 8-6, though... Hi, If you ever X-ray a car like that, you'll see sign of metal fatigue, hair line cracks, hidden rust things like that. Nothing laat forever! >> 1985 Corolla GT-S Twin-Cam, owned since April of 1985, still running but >> rusty. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > If you ever X-ray a car like that, you'll see sign of metal fatigue, hair > line cracks, hidden rust things like that. Nothing laat forever! Hidden rust?! The rocker panels are falling off the car! I think it's time to retire... >>>>> If you can't find pre-made spacers, I'd have a machine shop (or a >>>>> specialty CNC abrasive water-jet cutting shop) cut them out of 1/4" [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > If you ever X-ray a car like that, you'll see sign of metal fatigue, > hair line cracks, hidden rust things like that. Nothing laat forever! Anything can be fixed. There were some serious frame cracks on my old '56 Golden Hawk; I've got pictures of the local welding guy that came by with a truck-mounted stick welder and made it better than new (I had him add reinforcements under the upper control arm mounting points.) Cost me about $350 (of course I already had the front clip off and suspension removed for him) much cheaper and much less energy used than making a new frame! Unfortunately I sold the car to a guy in England who was going to completely restore it; it died a spectacular death when the fireworks warehouse next door to the resto shop caught on fire :( nate Signaturereplace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel > Anything can be fixed. There were some serious frame cracks on my old > '56 Golden Hawk; I've got pictures of the local welding guy that came by [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > nate Coincidence? I watched "Shockwave" on CourtTV last night and they ran a segment on that same fireworks blowup/fire. It was a pair of scissors that caused the whole thing. No Hawks in the flick tho.. > > Anything can be fixed. There were some serious frame cracks on my old > > '56 Golden Hawk; I've got pictures of the local welding guy that came by [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > segment on that same fireworks blowup/fire. It was a pair of scissors > that caused the whole thing. No Hawks in the flick tho. Really? place I'm thinking of was in Bristol, but without digging out the old BBC news article I couldn't say what the name of either the fireworks place or the resto shop was. I can't imagine a large fireworks warehouse going up is a common occurrance tho so it may as well be. this happened maybe a year or two ago. nate >>> If you can't find pre-made spacers, I'd have a machine shop (or a >>>specialty CNC abrasive water-jet cutting shop) cut them out of 1/4" [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > sent to junk yard? Let the economy roll. Or why not just get a new set of > proper rims anf forget about it. It's kinda safety issue. Oh, BTW, I have the Hachiroku, the '89 Suby GL, an '89 Mazda 626 I paid $150 that runs GREAT and looks very good, a '97 Suby Legacy L AWD wagon with a BHG, an '88 Supra in Good-VG condition that spends winters in a heated garage, and an '05 Scion tC that is spending the winter under a car cover... |
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