Car Forum / Subaru Cars / July 2008
Now, where else but the dealers can I go to get services done on my 2005 legacy in the future?
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curious - 11 Jul 2008 06:53 GMT My 3 year warranty is up on the 26th. The dealer I have been going to has shown to live up to the accusations made about dealers in general. in this latest 30,000 miles service, the girl failed to deduct the amount for replacing sparks plug which I found out after the service was done that it was needed only at 60,000 miles for this car. (I am sure she knew but didn't tell me ahead but I asked the detail of everything done in the service and so found out about it.) She argued with me that it's additional charge. I said "One surprise after another" to make her realize that I wasn't buying her line though I didn't specifically said that I wasn't going to pay hat amount. I knew she was manipulating me but because I didn't want my day ruined any further, I didn't say that she needed to deduct it. But after I left, I turned around, after deciding to let her know that I paid the full price not because I agreed with her and also pointed to her about her manipulation with words. She was stubborn and wouldn't budge. So I left knowing that I needed to deal with this con artist. So, I left messages for the manager where I said I will share this experience with many people all over the internet.
I was pissed off enough with her messing up my schedule yesterday trying to save loaning me a car - she didn't offer me a loner car and said it would take 5 hours and I didn't ask for it because they could give me a ride to the hair salon and pick me up but after total 5 hours and I went to her and asked her about my car only to learn that it would be another 2 hours and voila with an offer of a loaner car, I said "you are offering me this after you wasted my time? She said it was a full-day service. I said, "You didn't tell me that when I was making appointment with you". I let the manager know - this was done in person. Of course, he tried to cover for her but I didn't let him. I left his office saying that I was unhappy. I also that I wasn't coming back. Later, I called and left a message telling him in his voice mail that I controlled my anger and did not show because I was not going to give them any more business. I wrapped my message with "You lost a customer".
I was pissed off already but with this stunt of cheating attempt for spark plus work, she made me having to call the manager again - he was not in at that time - to let him know what I planned to do which is what I am doing RIGHT now. He called me back acting like I was a trouble maker, offering me to refund the whole amount put on my credit card in the form of a check. The amount was after the service credit of $72.54 that I had with them. That service .was for the previous girl failing to check the tires - I made the specific request cus pressure looked too low; I requested after they brought the car to me after an oil change since I forgot to tell the girl beforehand. She said it was done but I knew it wasn't done as the tire pressure still looked the same but she was busy and so I left, planning to put air on my own. But I got busy and before I got a chance to check, I had a flat tire in the rain and had a long day and also costed me having to replace rather than repair. So, I informed the manager about the consequences I faced.
When he returned the call, during the conversation, he said something like "I was going to give you some service credit but after you said this, I won't'. What I said was that either she lied or she was incompetent to not see that the tire pressure was too low and the guy who was supposed to check did not check. So I told him that he insulted me with covering for her and pointed out his failure to acknowledge my complaint. He ended up checking into the matter and voila!. There was no paper work on that by the tech guy. When he asked the girl, she said she took his word. So, he ended up offering me some service credit. So, I gave them another chance, which was my last oil change and then this latest service check.
This latest experience made me realize that since my warranty is up in a couple of weeks anyway, it's time I stop using their service if these girls are going to be like that.The first one used to be good. I don't know what happened to her. . The second one, the one I made an appointment with this lasttime was a con artist from the beginning.
The manager said he is mailing the check to me tomorrow, obviously to shut me up as I had told him in the message I left that this info of my experience will be in all Subaru forums I can find on the Internet. Some of you may be curious which dealer this is. Stay tuned....
BTW, when I made the appointment, I asked her in detail what were going to be done. I also told her that I would want to see the list when I come in before I agree to the work order. Still, after she made me signed, she failed to give me a copy and I had to ask. Like I said, this girl was all about ripping me off. Plain stupid to pull the stunt she did with failure to adjust their rate due to not needing spark plugs replacement.
Okay, this is one forum....
Now, I'll wait to see whether he actually send the check or not.
Todd H. - 11 Jul 2008 15:33 GMT > My 3 year warranty is up on the 26th. The dealer I have been going to > has shown to live up to the accusations made about dealers in > general. [snip]
> Okay, this is one forum.... > > Now, I'll wait to see whether he actually send the check or not. Frankly, you sound like a whiney bitch to me. This dealership is likely delighted to have lost you as a customer.
If your concerns were legitimate, I sense from the "more heat than light" nature of your post that you didn't articulate your concerns very effectively, perhaps not to the right people empowered to give you what you wanted, and perhaps not even giving them a concrete idea of what you wanted.
Such individuals are nearly impossible to satisfy.
-- Todd H. 2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4 Chicago, Illinois USA
mm - 11 Jul 2008 16:37 GMT > > My 3 year warranty is up on the 26th. The dealer I have been going to > > has shown to live up to the accusations made about dealers in [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Frankly, you sound like a whiney bitch to me. If I am labeled whiney bitch for not taking it sitting like a duck, I take it as a compliment.
> This dealership is likely delighted to have lost you as a customer. Dealership only wants customers whom they can manipulate and rip off.
> If your concerns were legitimate, I sense from the "more heat than > light" nature of your post that you didn't articulate your concerns > very effectively, B;lah..b;ah..blah..
> perhaps not to the right people empowered to give > you what you wanted, and perhaps not even giving them a concrete idea > of what you wanted. More blah blah..blah ..
> Such individuals are nearly impossible to satisfy. Yet more blah..blah..blah.. You must be retarded to make a comment like this about someone you do not know. Typical of average Americans..
> -- > Todd H. > 2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4 > Chicago, Illinois USA Todd H. - 11 Jul 2008 16:52 GMT >> > My 3 year warranty is up on the 26th. The dealer I have been going to >> > has shown to live up to the accusations made about dealers in [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > If I am labeled whiney bitch for not taking it sitting like a duck, I > take it as a compliment. No.
There are ways to assert your rights, make your points and get satisfaction without being labeled a whiney bitch.
>> Such individuals are nearly impossible to satisfy. > Yet more blah..blah..blah.. You must be retarded to make a comment > like this about someone you do not know. Typical of average > Americans.. I'm far from an average American, and I know a whiney bitch when I read one.
Kudos on your attempts to get satisfaction but the fault here lies not entirely with the dealership, best I can tell. I tell you this for your own good so you dont' find yourself so disappointed with the next poor bastards who have to service your car.
-- Todd H. 2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4 Chicago, Illinois USA
Dano58 - 11 Jul 2008 16:56 GMT > >> > My 3 year warranty is up on the 26th. The dealer I have been going to > >> > has shown to live up to the accusations made about dealers in [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > 2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4 > Chicago, Illinois USA Todd, don't feed the troll! Let's see how many more id's the dope can come up with - curious, mm, 'whiney bitch'....!
Dan D '99 Impreza 2.5 RS (son's) Central NJ USA
curious - 11 Jul 2008 18:25 GMT > > >> > My 3 year warranty is up on the 26th. The dealer I have been going to > > >> > has shown to live up to the accusations made about dealers in [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > Todd, don't feed the troll! Let's see how many more id's the dope can > come up with - curious, mm, 'whiney bitch'....! Is your definition of a troll "having many ids"? obviously, another American idiot.
> Dan D > '99 Impreza 2.5 RS (son's) > Central NJ USA curious - 11 Jul 2008 18:23 GMT > >> > My 3 year warranty is up on the 26th. The dealer I have been going to > >> > has shown to live up to the accusations made about dealers in [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > There are ways to assert your rights, make your points and get > satisfaction Yeah, right. Tell me when that works when using with crooks.
> without being labeled a whiney bitch. It is your opinion. isn't it? I don't miss my sleep over it. I am sure there are plenty of people who would just love to know the name of the dealer.
> >> Such individuals are nearly impossible to satisfy. > > Yet more blah..blah..blah.. You must be retarded to make a comment [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I'm far from an average American, and I know a whiney bitch when I > read one. You become an average American and an idiot at that, when you jump at me with name calling, accusing me that I whine.
> Kudos on your attempts to get satisfaction but the fault here lies not > entirely with the dealership, best I can tell. Not entirely? How many more ways did I have to show to her that I wasn't going to be one of those who would just say yes? If I had any fault, it was paying for the total w/o insisting which I did it because that was what i needed it done at that moment. I am hypoglycemic and I had a late lunch and was still in recovery at that moment and decided not to take a chance getting myself into more risky situation when driving.
But after I left, I decided to at least let her know that it was not because I bought her stupid explanation that I walked away paying her for service I didn't get.
> I tell you this for your own good Really? Really? You mean name calling and trying to intimidate was your way of telling me for my own good?
> so you dont' find yourself so disappointed with the next poor bastards who have to service your car Thanks but not thanks. When people like us crossed the pacific ocean and start a new life in a foriegn county, be assured that we know what we are doing. Here are a few example of how I took care of things:
- Living at a campus housing apartment complex managed privately, when I decided to transfer to another university and needed to get out of the 12 months lease finding a replacement, the redneck wouldn't let me. So, I took the matter to the school's student affairs office as suggested by the other girl, a Vietnamese descendant, who was born here
- Renting the dorm size refrigerator from a guy delivered on campus - at this other university, I was also living on campus housing apartments but mange by the school, when I returned the unit by taking it to where they collect at the end of the semester, I did not get my deposit back and was told that it will be mailed to me. Never received and all my phone calls were not answered. So, I told about this to the student council on campus. At the beginning of the next semester, that office called me informed me that there was a truck delivering the fridge though it was a different business name. I called the guy, pretending as if I was interested in getting a unit. When he came - the bastard was the same guy form whom i rented the unit, as I arranged with all my friends who also live in that graduate housing, surrounding me, I asked the guy some questions about rental arrangement and then asked whether he always comes her every semester. After he said yes, I told him that he looks very familiar to me because it was form him that I rented last semester and that I have not yet received my deposit refund with my phone calls ignored. Now with all my friends around me, the poor bastard chose to offer me cash refund right then and there.
- In the same city, I bought a commuting flight to make a connection through a travel agency but when it got canceled, I told the agency to get me my refund but they acted as if the air line was not refunding while they put no effort getting the money for me. Finally, I told them that if I don't hear an offer of the refund in 3 days, I am taking it to the legal office at school and let the representative from the school handle filing a lawsuit. I was told that the airline was going bankruptcy and that I would not get my money back. I said, "let the judge decide whether the poor student deserves to be ripped off". Within two days, I called a call, and as soon as I knew who it was, I simply said, "you have 3 days to mail a refund check with express mail" or I am filing a lawsuit via the school which would cost me nothing to file.
There are a few more such as UPS failing to deliver my book - and failed repeatedly at that - finally, informing me that they have no way to get inside the condo property. Of course, they lied that the management change the code while the guy lost the remote control. They expected me to pick it up at their UPS office the other side of town. That, after I paid express shipping. So, I contacted BBB via online.
There are a few other situations..
Now, if I am a bitch for doing what I have to do, I say it again: "I take it as a compliment. "
> -- > Todd H. > 2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4 > Chicago, Illinois USA Todd H. - 11 Jul 2008 19:23 GMT > You become an average American and an idiot at that, when you jump at > me with name calling, accusing me that I whine. So your allegation is that it's better to be a Burmese (generally wonderful folks that I've met) who's unfortunately assimilated America fast enough to be a fast-track entitlement-minded Californian whiner?
> Really? You mean name calling and trying to intimidate was your way > of telling me for my own good? Well, sometimes you have to hurt to help.
> - Living at a campus housing apartment complex managed privately, when > I decided to transfer to another university and needed to get out of > the 12 months lease finding a replacement, the redneck wouldn't let > me. So, I took the matter to the school's student affairs office as > suggested by the other girl, a Vietnamese descendant, who was born > here You sign a year's lease and got upset that the person who was counting on 12 months of income out of that utilization of their capital tried to hold you to the legal agreement you signed?
> - Renting the dorm size refrigerator from a guy delivered on campus - > at this other university, I was also living on campus housing [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Now with all my friends around me, the poor bastard chose to offer me > cash refund right then and there. Well, kudos to that. You had a legitimate gripe. I bet you could've gotten satisfaction witha few phone calls too, though.
> - In the same city, I bought a commuting flight to make a connection > through a travel agency but when it got canceled, I told the agency to [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > express mail" or I am filing a lawsuit via the school which would > cost me nothing to file. Your stories are growing tiring.
> There are a few more such as UPS failing to deliver my book - and > failed repeatedly at that - finally, informing me that they have no [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Now, if I am a bitch for doing what I have to do, I say it again: "I > take it as a compliment. " I think I like you better than the idiots who take things lying down and let companies walk all over them. But you've gone to the opposite extreme I think... and I wonder if you're someone that trouble always manages to find because your attitude seems to always be looking for some conflict rather than being focused more on an equitable solution.
But that's just me having fun with armchair usenet psychology.
Enjoy your hunt for a new service facility. Did you ever bother to include in your long tirade where you're located? Perhaps more constructive information like that might focus more on solving your problem (i.e. finding a new auto servicer) than on your belabored stories of consumer oppression.
But then again, I think you are more interested in the drama than an actual solution. :-)
-- Todd H. 2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4 Chicago, Illinois USA
curious - 12 Jul 2008 12:45 GMT > > You become an average American and an idiot at that, when you jump at > > me with name calling, accusing me that I whine. > > So your allegation is that it's better to be a Burmese (generally > wonderful folks that I've met) who's unfortunately assimilated America > fast enough to be a fast-track entitlement-minded Californian whiner? Like I said, you're typical Americans who when have nothing constructive to say, comes up w/ bs. BTW, the fact that you stopped to reading my posts made w/ account not intended to use here but I accidentally used, showed how desperate you are.
BTW, don't equate me with the Burmese folks you met. I ain't native and do not want to be either.
> > Really? You mean name calling and trying to intimidate was your way > > of telling me for my own good? > > Well, sometimes you have to hurt to help. You were helping? News to me. FYI, I think you're dumb. If my using this line doesn't make you to realize that you can't take back the stupidity you showed w/ your first post in this thread, I do not know what will.
> > - Living at a campus housing apartment complex managed privately, when > > I decided to transfer to another university and needed to get out of [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > on 12 months of income out of that utilization of their capital tried > to hold you to the legal agreement you signed? Like I said, you are an average American such that in your pursuit to find fault w/ me you put a noose in your neck to remember that as a privately managed apartment complex though they only rent to students at that university, I had a f.cking right to get out of lease if I find a replacement who would take over my lease just like at any apartment complex.. If managed by the university, I wouldn't need to find a replacement for reasons such as graduating or transferring to another university.
> > - Renting the dorm size refrigerator from a guy delivered on campus - > > at this other university, I was also living on campus housing [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Well, kudos to that. You had a legitimate gripe. I bet you could've > gotten satisfaction with a few phone calls too, though. WTF? Can you read English, your first language? I clearly indicated in my explanation that my phone calls were not returned while no one ever answered the phone.
> > - In the same city, I bought a commuting flight to make a connection > > through a travel agency but when it got canceled, I told the agency to [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Your stories are growing tiring. Good, I have more for people like you who acts like a smart Alec.
> > There are a few more such as UPS failing to deliver my book - and > > failed repeatedly at that - finally, informing me that they have no [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > be looking for some conflict rather than being focused more on an > equitable solution. You can wonder what you want. Which part of the explanation did you not understand that when I made the appointment for 30,K maintenance check, I made it with that girl , asking her what exactly would be done in the check, AND clearly told her that when I get there, I would want to see the list of items she is stating before I signed the work order. Still, the con artist tried to not give me a copy of the work order after asking me signed for it. In the past, the previous person, ALWAYS gave me one right when I signed it. I didn't think much of all that until she pulled the last stunt, making me realized that she's a wanna con artist but she tried on the wrong person. Like typical Americans idiots, she probably interpretted my accent as dumbness.
> But that's just me having fun with armchair usenet psychology. What else would you say? I assure you I am having fun making you realize that you are a typical average American
> Enjoy your hunt for a new service facility. Did you ever bother to > include in your long tirade where you're located? That was going to be given later after I get my refund check in the mail? BTW, why did you think the manager offered me the refund in the form of check and not put it back on credit card? I knew he could do that instead of giving me some lame excuse, needing my credit card, blah..blah... It's called damage control. He knew that I had legitimate complaints to take it to BBB and Consumer affairs and also he doesn't want me to be posting in Subaru forums.
> Perhaps more > constructive information like that might focus more on solving your > problem (i.e. finding a new auto servicer) than on your belabored > stories of consumer oppression The goal of the post was not just finding a new place to take my car to; it was also to ive them what they deserve for doing this to a long the customer.
> But then again, I think you are more interested in the drama than an > actual solution. :-) What else you got? Typical dumb men always attacking women as drama people while men are the ones w/ real drama.
FYI, I already got a place to take my car to given to me by an employee at that dealership. I was told that if that place didn't handle Suabru, they would refer me another one that does. But, that place is kind of far and I would prefer to find something closer. I am sure I can find it by posting in a forum where people from my city meets.
> -- > Todd H. > 2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4 > Chicago, Illinois USA Todd H. - 12 Jul 2008 15:50 GMT >> > You become an average American and an idiot at that, when you jump at >> > me with name calling, accusing me that I whine. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > BTW, don't equate me with the Burmese folks you met. I ain't native > and do not want to be either. So let me see if I've got this straight-- you're Burmese and American but you don't want to be associated with Burma and you seem to hate "typical Americans?"
Is there anything you like?
>> > Really? You mean name calling and trying to intimidate was your way >> > of telling me for my own good? >> >> Well, sometimes you have to hurt to help. > You were helping? News to me. I'm telling you that your actions sound like they _draw_ poor customer service and that you might try a more reasoned approach lest every car repair facility you ever step into send you off into a rant the likes of what we've endured here.
To wit, maybe the problem is more easily found in the vanity mirror of your car than with the actual dealership.
> FYI, I think you're dumb. If my using this line doesn't make you to > realize that you can't take back the stupidity you showed w/ your > first post in this thread, I do not know what will. And I think yer an entitlement minded confrontational pain in the a.s.
> Like I said, you are an average American such that in your pursuit to > find fault w/ me you put a noose in your neck to remember that as a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > find a replacement for reasons such as graduating or transferring to > another university. You have some things to learn about the legal system and contracts apparently. As a privately managed apartment complex, they had you sign a year's lease. And unless that lease had a clause to let you out of it because you decided to whimsically transfer to another university, then they had every right to hold you to the terms of the lease. That's why these legal documents get signed.
And that's why among the reasons why University housing costs more than private.
But I'm sure in your world what you want to do is supposed to trump the legal terms of any contract you've signed? It's also pretty clear to me you've never run your own business and had to deal with pain in the a.s customers like yourself.
>> Well, kudos to that. You had a legitimate gripe. I bet you >> could've gotten satisfaction with a few phone calls too, though. > > WTF? Can you read English, your first language? I clearly indicated > in my explanation that my phone calls were not returned while no one > ever answered the phone. I said "a few phone calls." You said "my phone calls." If you had some sense of nuance in language you've had picked up on the difference. What I'm saying is that had you approached YOUR phone calls in a different way perhaps results would have been better with that route. For example, did you come off as a whiney emotional pain in the a.s in those messages you left, I wonder? In a way that practically begged the person to wonder "do I really want to return the phone call of this pain in the a.s?"
>> Your stories are growing tiring. > Good, I have more for people like you who acts like a smart Alec. Wait a minute I thought I was dumb. Now I'm smart and a Baldwin brother? Which is it?
> That was going to be given later after I get my refund check in the > mail? BTW, why did you think the manager offered me the refund in the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > legitimate complaints to take it to BBB and Consumer affairs and also > he doesn't want me to be posting in Subaru forums. I'm sure he's scared.
>> But then again, I think you are more interested in the drama than an >> actual solution. :-) >> > What else you got? Typical dumb men always attacking women as drama > people while men are the ones w/ real drama. LMAO. This is funny.
To be honest, I totally thought you were a guy until this posting where you mentioned being female several times. If you mentioned it in other posts, I glossed over it as I skimmed your rant. I'd not have dropped the B bomb if I didn't think you were a guy, actually. So I'll cheerfully cop to making a wrong assumption that you were male based on the demographic here in this forum and the lack of a usable name in your posting handle. I don't call women bitches, but boy it's fun to call whiney guys that.
So if I had it to do all over again, I'd not call you a whiney bitch. I would use "whiney emotional pain in the a.s" instead.
But you are right, dealing with a dealership as a female can be very difficult, add in an accent and you're dealing with an additional barrier. So when you've got these two prejudices going against you, and now, moving back to my desire to help you avoid this in the future, you'd be well served to remove the emotion from the negotiations, remain calm, and stick to facts and logic and not fuel escalation.
If you were as smart as you seem to think you are, you'd know that successful negotiation is best based on fact, reason, and not escalating the emotions of a conflict versus having a hissy fit and going on a mission to complain to every Subaru forum you can find.
I've been charged for spark plugs that I changed myself on 30k services before. I know I was able to effectively get the error corrected without having a major meltdown about it. Maybe the service advisor you were dealing with was a charlatan, or maybe your charming personality rubbed her the wrong way and led to a catty escalation, who knows. We weren't there.
But I think the safe money is on your inability to calmly and firmly describe the error, and get satisfaction rather than a scheming Subaru service advisor being hell bent on making extra money charging people for spark plugs. But stranger things have happened I suppose.
> FYI, I already got a place to take my car to given to me by an > employee at that dealership. Good. Are we done now?
Have a great weekend.
 Signature Todd H. 2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4 Chicago, Illinois USA
curious - 12 Jul 2008 23:53 GMT Do you know that you are more boring than you will ever know? Or may be you are bored and were looking for drama. Right now, at this moment, watching a movie on TV, during a commercial break, I will entertain myself by tearing apart your logic..again....
> >> > You become an average American and an idiot at that, when you jump at > >> > me with name calling, accusing me that I whine. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Is there anything you like? I simply alerted you to not assume that I am like those Burmese, most of who are suffering from complex inferiority and expect us to abandaon our heritage and culture and adopt theirs in ways where we act as if we are ashamed of being us. I like this Einstein 's quote: "Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind."
> >> > Really? You mean name calling and trying to intimidate was your way > >> > of telling me for my own goodor? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > repair facility you ever step into send you off into a rant the likes > of what we've endured here. Well, suddenly, I have realized that I'd rather take nap during the commercial reak than read your boring paternal crap. So I'll skip the redundant crap you wrote, like the above.
> To wit, maybe the problem is more easily found in the vanity mirror of > your car than with the actual dealership. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > And I think yer an entitlement minded confrontational pain in the a.s.I take pride in not letting thieves get away with their thieving acts.
> > Like I said, you are an average American such that in your pursuit to > > find fault w/ me you put a noose in your neck to remember that as a [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > university, then they had every right to hold you to the terms of the > lease. That's why these legal documents get signed. Do you think that if there wasn't such a clause, that redneck would have given in?
> And that's why among the reasons why University housing costs more > than private. Wrong. University housing I was at was not dormitory and it's for graduate students and it's market rate.
> But I'm sure in your world what you want to do is supposed to trump > the legal terms of any contract you've signed? It's also pretty clear > to me you've never run your own business and had to deal with pain in > the a.s customers like yourself. Like I said, you are boring, repeating the redundant crap, looking for a straw like a drowning man.
Too boring man. Gotta go. Bye.
> >> Well, kudos to that. You had a legitimate gripe. I bet you > >> could've gotten satisfaction with a few phone calls too, though. [quoted text clipped - 84 lines] > 2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4 > Chicago, Illinois USA Todd H. - 13 Jul 2008 07:58 GMT > Too boring man. Gotta go. Bye. "Boring" must be a euphemism for "sh.t, the guy made a point so valid that even _I_ can't seem to argue with it."
Between your loathing of "typical Americans," calling male southerners "Bubba's," your misandry (look it up, college girl), your disdain for your own fellow Burmese, you really are an interesting study.
Amanda, dear, for a foreign-born female Muslim availing yourself of America's graduate education system, you certainly come off as most racist and prejudiced so-called "educated" person I think I've ever encountered. Most reasonable people who are triple minorities are rather cluefully sensitive to the perils of labeling people, but somehow you've escaped that.
But suddenly, the more I see when googling curiousnfirewall@yahoo.com and curiousnfirewall@gmail.com or just curiousnfirewall, the more I fear you may actually have a diagnosable mental illness. Perhaps OCD. If that's true, I need to punch out of this discussion because it's not cool to pick on the mentally unwell.
As appropriate, see your therapist or doctor. Do the work. Take the meds. Be well. Quit harassing service departments, suing doctors, or tormenting yourself trying to respond to all posts you don't agree with on message boards.....
Best Regards, -- Todd H. 2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4 Chicago, Illinois USA
curious - 14 Jul 2008 17:41 GMT > > Too boring man. Gotta go. Bye. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > "Bubba's," your misandry (look it up, college girl), your disdain for > your own fellow Burmese, you really are an interesting study. FYI, I do not loathe Americans or Burmese per se. I loathe Americans who are idiots and the Burmese who act nice, claim to be Buddhists, and yet are hypocrites. I assure you that the majority of Burmese people you have met are such people, i.e.: outwardly nice-looking people who think that those of us with only 2, 3 generation of history in the country should not get equal citizenship as them. This is purely out of inferiority complex where they wrry that with better work ethics and ability, we would outshine them in the free market system. If they (the mass) had not be so happy about this scapegoating ticket that the then military government used to make them think their lots wold improve under the military rule and fought against the military rule in mass-scale, the military power would not have gotten this strong.
I called him Bubba as he made a comment that I should not got o Texas. Only a Bubba would make that kind of nationalistic statement.
> Amanda, dear, for a foreign-born female Muslim Like I said, you keep proving how average American you are with this labeling despite knowing where religious leaning form spying on me, reading my posts in other groups.
> availing yourself of America's graduate education system, > you certainly come off as most racist and prejudiced so-called "educated" person I think I've ever
> encountered. Glad to hear that because, even in my younger years as a teenager, I used to see myself as representative of International but as I get older, I have realized that those of us who do not belong to any particular ethnic group (I am referring to the ones not based by religious identity) do not have a voice. The vast majority of the people, despite exposure to other culture after moving to another country, still function based on tribal mentality. Hard to blame them for they see how the host country never accept them (or us) as equal and they are subtly discriminated but that doesn't stop them to not do the same on others (people like me). That is why I loathe such Burmese.
> Most reasonable people who are triple minorities are > rather cluefully sensitive to the perils of labeling people, but > somehow you've escaped that. I already explained why I have changed my position on that in my previous post. Here is a fact: The Burmese who want to discriminate minority like me do so out of fear of our superior ability in commerce and yet they act like we are supposed to act inferior and feel ashamed in front of them. That is what disgust me the most.
Todd H. - 14 Jul 2008 20:15 GMT >> > Too boring man. Gotta go. Bye. >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > who are idiots and the Burmese who act nice, claim to be Buddhists, > and yet are hypocrites. Then why not leave "American" and "Burmese" out of the name calling and focus on the real issue of "idiots" and "hypocrites?"
> I called him Bubba as he made a comment that I should not got o Texas. > Only a Bubba would make that kind of nationalistic statement. There's you being locked cocked and looking for a fight based on your ethnicity. The way I read it, Texas doesn't want you simply because you're a demonstrated pain in the a.s. His comment had nothing to do with race or nationalism yet you're the one who went there.
See?
>> Amanda, dear, for a foreign-born female Muslim > Like I said, you keep proving how average American you are with this > labeling despite knowing where religious leaning form spying on me, > reading my posts in other groups. Nah, I'm actually well above average, and you'll note that I'm not making an issue of your religious leanings, though I'm sure you're the sort who would love me to make an issue with it so you can call attention to how you're being oppressed.
>> availing yourself of America's graduate education system, you >> certainly come off as most racist and prejudiced so-called [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > the same on others (people like me). That is why I loathe such > Burmese. Was that in English? I'm afraid I don't understand what you're saying here.
>> Most reasonable people who are triple minorities are >> rather cluefully sensitive to the perils of labeling people, but [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > and yet they act like we are supposed to act inferior and feel ashamed > in front of them. That is what disgust me the most. People who discriminate on race, color, nationality or generally any attribute that folks can't really change do quite suck.
But you've got control over being a colossal pain in the a.s.
Don't ascribe to malice that which can be more adequately explained with a simple oversight. And remember you can catch a lot more flies with sugar than with vinegar. Not everyone is out to get ya.
Best Regards, -- Todd H. 2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4 Chicago, Illinois USA
curious - 15 Jul 2008 16:26 GMT > >> > Too boring man. Gotta go. Bye. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Then why not leave "American" and "Burmese" out of the name calling > and focus on the real issue of "idiots" and "hypocrites?" Most people on usenet (that means internationally) know that the term "American idiots" is a common usage since most Americans who choose not have have clues about things and listen to their biased media and quick to form biased opinion are idiots. As for the Burmese, I only said to not assume me like the Burmese you met. You were the one who started accusing me this and that and that's when I elaborated the hypocritical nature of the majority of the Burmese in general. As with the term "American idiots", it would not be far off to make a general statement about them either for the majority have deep-seated resentment against the immigrants that arrived during the British rule failing to understand that the Burmese economy was made by those people and not that these people came to reap the benefit of their country. Hell, what kind of economy Burma had before? Burma became a rice exporter during the British time, owing greatly ot the money lenders of Southern India and yet, all they can see is that those money lenders benefited. They didn't even have any clue that those Chattiers did not loan directly to them for they have no established credit. It was the middle men from whom they loaned and these middlemen themselves were Burmese. That's just one example.
> > I called him Bubba as he made a comment that I should not got o Texas. > > Only a Bubba would make that kind of nationalistic statement. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > you're a demonstrated pain in the a.s. His comment had nothing to do > with race or nationalism yet you're the one who went there. Fair enough but my statement was to let him know that I wasn't so keen on moving to Bubba town.
> See? See what? Do you see how you were the one doing the name calling. Like I said, you are a typical representation of typical American on usenet.
> >> Amanda, dear, for a foreign-born female Muslim > > Like I said, you keep proving how average American you are with this [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Nah, I'm actually well above average, and > you'll note that I'm not making an issue of your religious leanings, After creating a label "a foreign-born female Muslim", you are joking with the above claim, right?
> though I'm sure you're the sort who would love me to make an issue with it This (the above statement) is exactly the kind of proof that you ar a typical American loser.
> so you can call attention to how you're being oppressed. I only complained about the crook at the dealership, which, I am sure she did because the management encourages. Heck, it is not even a complaint as much as to expose them. But, you being a typical American did what you did. I know that it hurts your reputation to be called a typical American. But you need to acka=nwledge that you did become a typical American with that initial reply of yours and live with it.
> >> availing yourself of America's graduate education system, you > >> certainly come off as most racist and prejudiced so-called [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > But you've got control over being a colossal pain in the a.s. I told you already. I chose to change myself for I am sick of being the nice and understanding person and the jealousy I get form so called friends. When I was new to this country, when I went to Burmese get-togethering, I thought that the people (who has been here for more than 7 years, 10 years. etc.) would not be acting with tribal mentality but what I saw was the opposite. Sure it was the individual and so I didn't not make a decision to just form a generalized view though these *lovely* people you called are full of prejudice. The first thing they would ask is where I lived back home. It was the way to determine my socio-economic background. Once they get the answer, they pretty much formed the opinion that I was from one of those rich family back background. Since they couldn't treat me down based on that, they tried to find ways to find something but unfortunately for them, as a person on student visa which most of knew nothing about (especially back in those days), my English was not weak like them (for I had studied and took TOEFL and GRE already and with my habit of reading, I was not clueless the way a typically newly arrived person from Burma would be). In summary, I stayed away, realizing that I do no fit it with them. Their topic in all those get-together is gossip.
That did not stop me from not giving a chance for friendship to some other people - this was much later, after i had been in US for 8,9 years. The youngest of three sisters were my age. Before nationalization, they used to well-to-do but afterward, like some Anglo-Indians, who didn't get to leave Burma, they became poor. (Typical Anglo-Indians were salaried employees during British time; most were never Business owners or in highly educated professions). For Being Christians, through Church organizations, they typical find work in the circle of the diplomat community. The ones with some education get secretary jobs in the British and US Embassies. Boys work as guards in such Embassies or waiters in some restaurants that these diplomats go. The girls do babysitting and housekeeping for the diplomat family. Yes, it was my mistake to assume that we could form a friendship with them. The middle girl, 3 years older was a little brighter to know that coming to US on a student visa, no comparison should one made but the oldest one was another story. It was not like I was putting them down but she was just jealous and would try to find petty ways to imply (based on colonial mentality) as if they were superior. The stupid head had no clue that my grandfather, in colonial days, was a big business man, not some salaried employees like theirs. finally, the youngest one, the one my age said something that sort of attack me and that's when I printed the humble history of Anglo-Indian, written by an American professor - that article has been taken off; I guess it's because it was criticized for speaking the truth - that started with Irish soldiers impregnating native Indian girls w/o marriage and how Catholic Church took these children and made them think English was their home though they have never been there. Over time, an Anglo-Indian community was formed and some ended up in Burma. I may appear mean for sending them that article *which I translated for them for they can't read that level English", but as far as i am concerned, if they have the nerve to attack me as if I am inferior, they should know who they really are first.
I thought that they would be different from the native Burma group and so after that, I didn't try to make any more friend with anyone form Burma to get together and cook Burmese food, etc. But, upon moving to this city, I ended up becoming friend with a Burman family. The couple is pretty good but over time, I learned their version of democracy. Through them, I met a girl form an ethnic group called Karen. She came to US on a student visa - hers was via a Christian organization and not privately like mine but she understood me though she didn't stay put with her studies and got married. Then her brother and his wife came via refugee program; her father was in the Guerilla army since she was young and with Thailand being overburdened with newly arrived refugees after student's protest, US started relocating these people to a third country and she was the first in her family apply for the program and they ended up in US. The couple of was nice and I was becoming friend with them but ...
The husband started getting into computer hardware in Thailand and so in US, he started studying for networking. He has no bachelor degree; he had an electrical technician degree from Burma. He may take some programming class as a part of the program he is studying but the IT consulting firm (typically run by Indians who come from India) I joined would not have been his arena aside since he was not in software (neither programming or SW testing). The next thing I knew, he was very inquisitive when he learned what I was doing - he probably saw some Indians at where he works as a desktop support - out it and so I explained to him but what I did not realize was that he started holding ti against me a if I owed him to report everything I do. For f.ck's sake, I have an MS degree (from US) in the field and that's why they took me though they typically only takes the people needing their sponsoring for work visa and not US residents like me who wouldn't put up with their exploitation. To make the story short, after that, the friendship just gone don the hill. They did not spell it out loud abd I didn't notice right away but eventually, I realized that told them how these It consulting firm operates which requires agreement to be sent to anywhere in US for the assignment. With a family with a 4 year old daughter, he wouldn't want to do that even if he is eligible for it. It made me feel hurt that they were like that like that to me after I gave him my programming text book, etc. I also came to realize a few of my inquisitive questions about the programs for the refugees and low income she attended that they would not give which I feel amuse as i am writing this.
So, I decided that of people are like that and I only get hurt, I need to develop a mentality in a way that would prevent me from getting hurt like this. My experience with them doesn't stop me from helping people. I am now helping someone who arrived US, not on refugees program, not on student visa, but as a regular immigrant. I met her at a get-together last December hosted by a Physician couple who are originally from Burma. I met the couple in Nordstrom at a mall. They heard m speaking Burmese on the phone and introduced themselves to me. The couple is in their late 50s and the girl was just staying with one of their daughters temporarily.
BTW, basically the same with people from other groups, namely Americans. I had had Americans who were jealous at me that's just pathetic. Rarely do I see people who are worth making friendship but I do meet a few. Usually, they are men, and for being men it's hard for the friendship to last when they want more and I do not feel the same.
I have my reason to want to become a pain in the a.s. I am not going to revert back to how I used to be. I am going to stick with this. I am pissed off. May be this is what people means by becoming jaded. I guess I am getting old enough to start becoming jaded.
All this in a Subaru forum? You asked for it. This is my last post. What a waste of time!
> Don't ascribe to malice that which can be more adequately explained > with a simple oversight. And remember you can catch a lot more [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > 2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4 > Chicago, Illinois USA Todd H. - 15 Jul 2008 18:49 GMT >> >> > Too boring man. Gotta go. Bye. >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > not have have clues about things and listen to their biased media and > quick to form biased opinion are idiots. Welcome to America, then darlin. You are officially an idiot, because you have made the broad brush painting mistake of putting a label on me that doesn't fit.
> As for the Burmese, I only said to not assume me like the Burmese > you met. You were the one who started accusing me this and that and > that's when I elaborated the hypocritical nature of the majority of > the Burmese in general. No, Dopey, I was just clarifying that I had no negative perception of the Burmese so that it was crystal clear that it was YOU who I thought was a pain in the a.s of your own merit, and not by virtue of any stereotyping. Copiche?
> As with the term "American idiots", it would not be far off to make > a general statement about them either for the majority have [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > credit. It was the middle men from whom they loaned and these > middlemen themselves were Burmese. That's just one example. Darlin, we Americans have been taught so little about Burma that you'll struggle to find anyone who can point to it on a map within 2000 miles much less have any resentment to Burmese immigrants specifically, and far less to care about British rule or any of the geo political crapola associated with the country.
You're giving our capacity to be prejudiced against your countrymen way too much credit.
> BTW, basically the same with people from other groups, namely > Americans. I had had Americans who were jealous at me that's just [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > All this in a Subaru forum? You asked for it. This is my last post. > What a waste of time! You need some therapy. Seriously. You are a bitter bitter ball of wax. Calling you jaded would be be an affront to jaded people. Life's too short to be THAT pissed off all the time.
And I'll leave this quote of mine for further review:
>> Don't ascribe to malice that which can be more adequately explained >> with a simple oversight. And remember you can catch a lot more >> flies with sugar than with vinegar. Not everyone is out to get >> ya. Be well. Best of luck with your Subaru.
-- Todd H. 2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4 Chicago, Illinois USA
curious - 15 Jul 2008 23:40 GMT > >> >> > Too boring man. Gotta go. Bye. > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > you have made the broad brush painting mistake of putting a label on > me that doesn't fit. If you say so but I stand on my point: You became one when you called me whiney bitch in your first reply..
> > As for theBurmese, I only said to not assume me like theBurmese > > you met. You were the one who started accusing me this and that and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > was a pain in the a.s of your own merit, and not by virtue of any > stereotyping. Copiche? Sigh. And I was letting you know that the majoirty of those lovely people you referred to are not so lovely.
> > As with the term "American idiots", it would not be far off to make > > a general statement about them either for the majority have [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > specifically, and far less to care about British rule or any of the > geo political crapola associated with the country. I was only elaboraying about those *LOVELY* people.
> You're giving our capacity to be prejudiced against your countrymen > way too much credit I did not say anything about your capacity toward Burmese. I was saying about your (as a general term, not you per se) capacity toward forigners especially nn-white ones in general.
> > BTW, basically the same with people from other groups, namely > > Americans. I had had Americans who were jealous at me that's just [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > wax. Calling you jaded would be be an affront to jaded people. > Life's too short to be THAT pissed off all the time. Not all the time. Just right now and it comes out in this forum only for reasons you should know. You triggered tenfold it out of me. yes, you get the credit.
> And I'll leave this quote of mine for further review: > > >> Don't ascribe to malice that which can be more adequately explained > >> with a simple oversight. And remember you can catch a lot more > >> flies with sugar than with vinegar. Not everyone is out to get > >> ya. Yeah, it was my attitude of "Not everyone is ut to get me" that got me to where I was with the dealer place I was at. Everything I have done since I got that car, I gave them the business and even with my making sure that I didn't just say "yes, 30,000 miles service" and took over, they tried messing with me. That pissed me off. Is that so hard for you to understand and call me a whiney bitch? Acknowledge that you were way off just like a typical American.
> Be well. Best of luck with your Subaru. I will. And I already have a mechanic shop I was referred to. I was in the area yesterday and stopped by and introduced myself to him, the owner. He told me that Subaru needs very little maintenance, a sign of honesty. I had all 4 new tires put end of January (thanks ot the courtesy of the dealer's failing to check my tires as I requested) at Les Schwab and their CS is great. Before going to Les Schwab, I stopped by at a tire place that was willing to replace just the one tire that was flat with the same model but asked ridiculous price. Even Les Schwab didn't give me any compensation for my old tires but I was too busy to bother getting rid of them myself by selling.
BYE.
> -- > Todd H. > 2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4 > Chicago, Illinois USA gotbent - 12 Jul 2008 14:35 GMT > But then again, I think you are more interested in the drama than an > actual solution. :-) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > 2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4 > Chicago, Illinois USA Good observation dude. I think the OP is just so on the rag....maybe if she dislikes Americans so much, she should stop sponging off the nice folks in Cali that are paying for her matriculation and go back the f.ck wherever she came from. If any of these events actually happened anywhere besides the confines of her poisoned mind she should publicize names and dates, so the concerned parties could launch lawsuits for the libel and slander this ditz is spouting.
gotbent
Dave - 12 Jul 2008 16:21 GMT >> But then again, I think you are more interested in the drama than an >> actual solution. :-) [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > folks in Cali that are paying for her matriculation and go back the f.ck > wherever she came from. snip As long as it's not Texas. We don't want her either!
PS Todd, your posts were well thought out and surprisingly restrained in the face of that fury. I've done the same in face to face conflicts with customers, but don't know that I could have done the same on the internet. <G>
curious - 12 Jul 2008 23:39 GMT > >> But then again, I think you are more interested in the drama than an > >> actual solution. :-) [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > As long as it's not Texas. We don't want her either! There is an example of a Bubba.
> PS Todd, your posts were well thought out and surprisingly restrained in the > face of that fury. I've done the same in face to face conflicts with > customers, but don't know that I could have done the same on the internet. > <G> Thank you on behalf of Todd for trying to help save his face but you do know that it would not work, didn't you? But then being a Bubba, you couldn't possibly have know, have you?
Dave - 13 Jul 2008 14:23 GMT >> >> But then again, I think you are more interested in the drama than an >> >> actual solution. :-) [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > do know that it would not work, didn't you? But then being a Bubba, > you couldn't possibly have know, have you? "But then being a Bubba, you couldn't possibly have known, could you?"
There, I fixed it for you. What do you know, I can be civil over the internet! You have a great day darlin'! Buhbye!
curious - 12 Jul 2008 23:37 GMT > > But then again, I think you are more interested in the drama than an > > actual solution. :-) [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > gotbent Thank you for showing to the world by an excellent example how a typical American idiots's thought processing work, like a retard, of course.
According to this American idiot, matriculation classes in US are held at the Universities in US.
Frank - 13 Jul 2008 13:33 GMT >> Good observation dude. I think the OP is just so on the rag....maybe if she >> dislikes Americans so much, she should stop sponging off the nice folks in [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > According to this American idiot, matriculation classes in US are > held at the Universities in US. Looks like Gotbent hit a nerve. Your original post was just a whine and not worthy of discussion.
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