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Car Forum / Subaru Cars / March 2009Buying Advice
I'm planning to retire my '95 Legacy wagon and I'd like advice on a machine to replace it. I'm thinking of a 2000 - 2003 Subaru and what to avoid is as important as what to look for. Any words of wisdom? > I'm planning to retire my '95 Legacy wagon and I'd like advice on a > machine to replace it. I'm thinking of a 2000 - 2003 Subaru and what > to avoid is as important as what to look for. Any words of wisdom? Personally, I buy new. I've heard my Subaru dealer makes more off selling used Subaru's than new ones. Now is a great time to buy new and you should be able to get 2-3% under invoice price. >> I'm planning to retire my '95 Legacy wagon and I'd like advice on a >> machine to replace it. I'm thinking of a 2000 - 2003 Subaru and what [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > selling used Subaru's than new ones. Now is a great time to buy new and > you should be able to get 2-3% under invoice price. Seconded. The second-hand market in Subarus is *hot* and has been since I have known about it. The new car market for all cars is depressed right now, which means that great deals are to be had if you've got decent credit or decent amounts of cash. I'd definitely look into a new car if I were looking now. (Fortunately I have a dreamworth 1999 Subaru that doesn't need to be replaced and won't need it for quite a few years yet.) :-)  SignatureCatherine Jefferson <ariel@devsite.org> Personal Home Page * <http://www.devsite.org/> The SpamBouncer * <http://www.spambouncer.org/> Same with what the other posters said. The "used price" curve on Subarus is almost flat. So the "drive it off the lot" depreciation either doesnt exist (making a new one a better bargain) or works against you (increasing the price of a good, reliable car). Also, that age of Subaru has the head gasket problem, so you could very well have to tack on $3k to fix that. Unless you have _PROOF_ the gasket was redone at some point, at which case I might bargain hard and get a car that age. DO NOT accept "the conditioner" fix, or anything less than "see these marks on the engine and this paperwork says gaskets were replaced". > I'm planning to retire my '95 Legacy wagon and I'd like advice on a > machine to replace it. I'm thinking of a 2000 - 2003 Subaru and what > to avoid is as important as what to look for. Any words of wisdom? > I'm planning to retire my '95 Legacy wagon and I'd like advice on a > machine to replace it. I'm thinking of a 2000 - 2003 Subaru and what > to avoid is as important as what to look for. Any words of wisdom? 2000 was first production year, so I'd personally avoid those. The H4 has head gasket issues. Been there, done that. Brakes are a pain in the a.s on these cars. Catalytic converter issues seem to be a sign of the age of these as well. I'd get under the car and eyeball it. Though it's true that used subies do seem to hold value well, which makes it less of money saver buying late model uses ones, you're searching for a 5-9 year old car. I'd say ignore those calling to you buy new! If you were seeking out late model used, I might suggest buying new instead, given that you seem to be one who keeps a car a long time. But when shopping for that vintage, nah, save yer money and buy those used! -- Todd H. 2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4 Chicago, Illinois USA > I'm planning to retire my '95 Legacy wagon and I'd like advice on a > machine to replace it. I'm thinking of a 2000 - 2003 Subaru and what > to avoid is as important as what to look for. Any words of wisdom? Our 03 Outback wagon with the H6 engine has been very reliable for us. I think 2 a/c hoses were replaced under warranty. Everything else has been smooth so far. The 4 cylinders from that era may exhibit headgasket problems (I think external leaks). Also, if the car has suffered poor auto-tranny maintenance or run with mixed size tires, there can be AWD issues. You probably know that however. But if not, pay a mech $50-$75 to check it out. Carl > I'm planning to retire my '95 Legacy wagon and I'd like advice on a > machine to replace it. I'm thinking of a 2000 - 2003 Subaru and what > to avoid is as important as what to look for. Any words of wisdom? I would either buy something with the 2.2 l engine like a well preserved Impreza Outback or wait for the new 2.5 engine that is coming out very soon (see my recent post titled _New fabulous Subaru engines coming soon_). I dont trust the current 2.5L at all, it is a bored 2.2 that seems structurally weak, or at least it is undermined, therefore better to avoid altogether. People who bought these Impreza Outbacks seem to care for them very well. Whenever I see an Impreza Outback wagon from that time 2000-2003 it is in tip-top shape as compared to the average other Subaru in my location (Reno/Tahoe, Northern California). M.J. >> I'm planning to retire my '95 Legacy wagon and I'd like advice on a >> machine to replace it. I'm thinking of a 2000 - 2003 Subaru and what [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > for them very well. Whenever I see an Impreza Outback > wagon from that time 2000-2003 The last year Impreza Outback with 2.2l engine was 2001. M.J. > it is in tip-top shape as > compared to the average other Subaru in my location > (Reno/Tahoe, Northern California). > > M.J. > I'm planning to retire my '95 Legacy wagon and I'd like advice on a > machine to replace it. I'm thinking of a 2000 - 2003 Subaru and what > to avoid is as important as what to look for. Any words of wisdom? 1. Buy new. Subaru is too complex piece of machinery to gamble with a used one. Especially 6-9 years old. 2. Don't pinch pennies on turbo if you can afford it. I did and regretted it: modern crop of subaru naturally aspirated 4 bangers is VERY boring. Poor gearing is the reason why. As for a good deal on a new car that depends. If it's a desirable model (fun car that is) I doubt you'd get much off the price. though I see Legacy GT Spec B is about $2500 off the list price on cars direct. Not a very popular car I guess. In retrospect I should not have trashed FHI as much as I did. I'm in a fairly cold climate now with snow and ice as far as meets the eye and I got stuck numerous times (good studded ice&snow tires notwithstanding). Soooo, I wish I had an STI or at least an LSD on the rear axle of my current rear wheel driver. >> I'm planning to retire my '95 Legacy wagon and I'd like advice on a >> machine to replace it. I'm thinking of a 2000 - 2003 Subaru and what [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > tires notwithstanding). Soooo, I wish I had an STI or at least > an LSD on the rear axle of my current rear wheel driver. You'll never be hired as an ad writer by SOA ;) > >> I'm planning to retire my '95 Legacy wagon and I'd like advice on a > >> machine to replace it. I'm thinking of a 2000 - 2003 Subaru and what [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > You'll never be hired as an ad writer by SOA ;) I think I can find a few new twists to sell STI and Spec B :-) The latter should be sellable now that Mazdaspeed 6 has departed (due to the miniscule demand?) Curiously, I never saw a head to head comparo for those two. > I'm planning to retire my '95 Legacy wagon and I'd like advice on a > machine to replace it. I'm thinking of a 2000 - 2003 Subaru and what > to avoid is as important as what to look for. Any words of wisdom? I think too many assumptions have been made. We can't assume that he bought the 95 new, and thus has money to buy new again. It might be true that new cars aren't much more than 2-3 year old cars, but what about earlier ones with plenty of life in them. I'd much rather spend 5 to 8k on a 2000 to 2003 legacy than spend three times that on a new car. I think the original question was which cars to stay away from, or which ones have proven to be great. Being that between 95 and present day subaru has only made about ten different models, it shouldn't be too hard to do a little research on each one, and find the common problems with each, and see which ones you'd rather have to deal with. The new cars will also have problems. I've had more luck with used cars than many have had with new cars. New cars are too complicated. So much to go wrong. > Being that between 95 and present > day subaru has only made about ten different models, it shouldn't be > too hard to do a little research on each one, and find the common > problems with each, and see which ones you'd rather have to deal with. The April '09 issue of Consumer Reports lists used car models to look for. Quite a few Subarus are in this list, sorted according to price range. Consumer Reports also lists used cars to avoid. There are no Subarus in that list. SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email >> Being that between 95 and present >> day subaru has only made about ten different models, it shouldn't be [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > price range. Consumer Reports also lists used cars to avoid. There > are no Subarus in that list. There should be, however. You should avoid any Subaru model with a first-generation 2.5L DOHC engine; they have humongous head gasket issues due to bad design. That means avoid the 1997-1999 Outbacks and 1997-1999 (early model year) Foresters. If you have a good lead on a 1999 Forester, get your favorite independent Subaru specialist mechanic to run the VIN number and verify that it's a late year model with the second-generation 2.5L SOHC engine. I have one of those Foresters; they're good cars. In addition, the 2.2 L engines you find in the Legacies and Outback Sports for 1997-1999 are wonderful engines that keep going like the Eveready bunny. ;-) I had one of those, a 1998 Outback Sport, which is now no longer on the road only because a guy driving a '73 Chevy Impala plowed into it. <sigh> SignatureCatherine Jefferson <ariel@devsite.org> Personal Home Page * <http://www.devsite.org/> The SpamBouncer * <http://www.spambouncer.org/> > That means avoid the 1997-1999 Outbacks and > 1997-1999 (early model year) Foresters. My wife's car and the reason I'm here is a '99 Forester bought in the fall of '98 (which makes it an early one). It's ten years old and hasn't had a gasket problem yet. Of course, it does have only 45,000 miles on it--and that includes one round trip from Virginia to Utah and Arizona, which added 6,000 miles right there. (She's the original little old lady who only drives it on Thursdays to Pilates class.) SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email >> That means avoid the 1997-1999 Outbacks and >> 1997-1999 (early model year) Foresters. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > the original little old lady who only drives it on Thursdays to > Pilates class.) ROFL! Our late model year 1999 Forester had only 44K on it when we bought it in May 2007. It had been a fleet car in a medium-sized business for most of its life; I doubt it had ever been off the pavement til a few months before we bought it. It now has just under 80K miles, much of that off-road in sometimes-tougher conditions than this vehicle really should face and without a hitch. It's a wonderful car; I wouldn't give it up. :-) My mother owns a 1998 Subaru Outback. It has fewer than 40K miles on it; she really *is* the original little old lady when it comes to driving. I'm hoping that either she's gone or it's gone long before the head gasket blows, but have warned her to have her dealer check it regularly anyway. I'm actually not a car fanatic or particularly knowledgeable about cars in general. I've been driving Subarus since 1985, though, and them I know. SignatureCatherine Jefferson <ariel@devsite.org> Personal Home Page * <http://www.devsite.org/> The SpamBouncer * <http://www.spambouncer.org/> > In addition, the 2.2 L engines you find in the Legacies and Outback > Sports for 1997-1999 are wonderful engines that keep going like the > Eveready bunny. ;-) But...but...why does mine have blown head gaskets?!?!?! >> In addition, the 2.2 L engines you find in the Legacies and Outback >> Sports for 1997-1999 are wonderful engines that keep going like the >> Eveready bunny. ;-) > > But...but...why does mine have blown head gaskets?!?!?! Really? That's *interesting*. I think it's the first case I've ever heard of that engine getting a blown head gasket, against a bunch of the other one. Which model do you have? What mileage when the head gasket blew? SignatureCatherine Jefferson <ariel@devsite.org> Personal Home Page * <http://www.devsite.org/> The SpamBouncer * <http://www.spambouncer.org/> >>> In addition, the 2.2 L engines you find in the Legacies and Outback >>> Sports for 1997-1999 are wonderful engines that keep going like the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > other one. Which model do you have? What mileage when the head gasket > blew? This is difficult to say. (Not the model, the HGs...). The car has 335,000 miles on it, but you'd never know by looking at it. I got it from the second owner, who only had it for 2 weeks. He was going to fix it and run it, but found his cancer had returned, so he gave it to me for $100. Supposedly, the engine was replaced just before he bought it, and he seemed to recall hearing the motor had 120,000 miles on it. It runs strong, but after 8-12 miles overheats. We verified the BHG by chacking for exhaust gasses in the radiator. The inspection station put the tailpipe 'sniffer' in the radiator, we started it up and watched the hydrocarbons going up to tailpipe levels. I tried HG in a bottle, it worked on my '89 Coupe, but the break is on the intake side on that car. I think I may have really damaged the headds on the last test run, because now white smoke pours from the tailpipe and from under the engine... Decent engines are $250-400...probably cheaper and easier than doing HGs on this one... >>>> In addition, the 2.2 L engines you find in the Legacies and Outback >>>> Sports for 1997-1999 are wonderful engines that keep going like the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > second owner, who only had it for 2 weeks. He was going to fix it and run > it, but found his cancer had returned, so he gave it to me for $100. <snip> Okay, this explains. :-) Your car has a *huge* number of miles on it, enough that head gasket problems or other problems can happen with any engine. The "head gasket" issues I was talking about on the first-generation 2.5L DOHC engines were happening at or even before 100,000 miles, significantly sooner than should have been the case. SignatureCatherine Jefferson <ariel@devsite.org> Personal Home Page * <http://www.devsite.org/> The SpamBouncer * <http://www.spambouncer.org/> >>>>> In addition, the 2.2 L engines you find in the Legacies and Outback >>>>> Sports for 1997-1999 are wonderful engines that keep going like the [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > first-generation 2.5L DOHC engines were happening at or even before > 100,000 miles, significantly sooner than should have been the case. Engine, transmission and exhaust all replaced, along with the radiator. I guess they weren't expecting a BHG on a 'low mileage' engine... >>> In addition, the 2.2 L engines you find in the Legacies and Outback >>> Sports for 1997-1999 are wonderful engines that keep going like the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > other one. Which model do you have? What mileage when the head gasket > blew? I guess it WAS hard to say! 1997 Legacy "L" wagon, 2.2L AT. Nice car, except for the motor... >>> Being that between 95 and present >>> day subaru has only made about ten different models, it shouldn't be [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > longer on the road only because a guy driving a '73 Chevy Impala plowed > into it. <sigh> Just to chime in...my wife's 97 Outback Legacy, 2.5L has run perfect for the first 92,000 miles of its life. That includes a recent trip from WI to NV, about 2,200 miles. Hope it stays that way although we sure don't need the AWD here in Vegas. > Just to chime in...my wife's 97 Outback Legacy, 2.5L has run perfect for the > first 92,000 miles of its life. That includes a recent trip from WI to NV, > about 2,200 miles. Hope it stays that way although we sure don't need the > AWD here in Vegas. My mother's 98 Outback with the same engine is also doing fine, although it's probably still under 40K miles. ;-) As for not needing AWD in Vegas, you *obviously* haven't checked out the jeep trails and offroad stuff near to it. There's a lot to do in the area that absolutely requires AWD. SignatureCatherine Jefferson <ariel@devsite.org> Personal Home Page * <http://www.devsite.org/> The SpamBouncer * <http://www.spambouncer.org/> |
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