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Car Forum / Toyota / Camry / December 2005

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No Heat...water pump?

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target - 27 Nov 2005 03:47 GMT
Hey all-
I have a 93 Camry SE V6. The car overheated when my girl was driving it
due to a blown radiator. Unfortunatly, I'm afraid that maybe she drove
a it bit into the "red zone" and I wanted some advice before I bother
dumpin too much into it. When I filled the block and radiator and ran
it, I was getting no heat in the cab (although the gauge indicated
normal oper. temp) I changed the thermosat with an OE (figuring the old
one was smoked from the overheat) and still no heat.

Is it possible that the water pump is gone too from the overheat as
well ?(although it shows no external signs of leakage) Could somrthing
have blocked the coolant passages from the overheat? BTW, I have only
run the car with no radiator cap on because the radiator is leakin like
a sieve. Could this be connected to the prob? ....TY in advance!!
Stephen H - 27 Nov 2005 03:57 GMT
No heat = Air pocket in heater core.
Remove the rad cap, fill almost to top and idle until eng is hot. Now goose
the engine from idle to ohhh 2500 rpm or so with the heater on. Keep an eye
on the eng temp, if it gets to high turn the eng off. keep playing with the
car until the heater blows hot.
top off rad and reservoir.

Signature

Stephen W. Hansen
ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician
ASE Undercar Specialist

http://autorepair.about.com/cs/troubleshooting/l/bl_obd_main.htm
http://www.troublecodes.net/technical/

> Hey all-
> I have a 93 Camry SE V6. The car overheated when my girl was driving it
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> run the car with no radiator cap on because the radiator is leakin like
> a sieve. Could this be connected to the prob? ....TY in advance!!
Pszemol - 27 Nov 2005 04:26 GMT
> No heat = Air pocket in heater core.
> Remove the rad cap, fill almost to top and idle until eng is hot. Now goose
> the engine from idle to ohhh 2500 rpm or so with the heater on. Keep an eye
> on the eng temp, if it gets to high turn the eng off. keep playing with the
> car until the heater blows hot.
> top off rad and reservoir.

Will the same method apply to my camry '95 with 4-cylinder engine ?

Why do I need to remove the cap ?
Wouldn't the air bubble travel to the overflow bottle with the cap left on ?
Daniel - 27 Nov 2005 14:57 GMT
"Will the same method apply to my camry '95 with 4-cylinder engine ?
Why do I need to remove the cap ?
Wouldn't the air bubble travel to the overflow bottle with the cap left
on ? "
~~~~~~
With mine, simply filling the radiator slowly and allowing the water
level to rise internally was all that was required. (pour through a
funnel and allow the level to stabilize and the gurgling sounds to
subside before adding a bit more)
Fill to the top of the radiator neck and install the radiator cap.
Run to operating temperature. Let cool. Top up overflow tank.
Never had any problem. Don't know about six cylinder.
I should mention there is a "jiggle valve" in the thermostat whose
position aligns with a mark on the water inlet.
The function of this jiggle valve is to allow air to escape, but then
seal when pressurized.
When I replaced the timing belt and water pump I noticed the prior
mechanic had not oriented the thermostat correctly.
Daniel - 27 Nov 2005 14:57 GMT
"Will the same method apply to my camry '95 with 4-cylinder engine ?
Why do I need to remove the cap ?
Wouldn't the air bubble travel to the overflow bottle with the cap left
on ? "
~~~~~~
With mine, simply filling the radiator slowly and allowing the water
level to rise internally was all that was required. (pour through a
funnel and allow the level to stabilize and the gurgling sounds to
subside before adding a bit more)
Fill to the top of the radiator neck and install the radiator cap.
Run to operating temperature. Let cool. Top up overflow tank.
Never had any problem. Don't know about six cylinder.
I should mention there is a "jiggle valve" in the thermostat whose
position aligns with a mark on the water inlet.
The function of this jiggle valve is to allow air to escape, but then
seal when pressurized.
When I replaced the timing belt and water pump I noticed the prior
mechanic had not oriented the thermostat correctly.
Stephen H - 27 Nov 2005 17:23 GMT
It works with all cars.
With the cap on it locks the fluid/air combo in place. Removing the cap lets
the fluid flow a bit easier. The key is the accelerator pumping action. It
really helps the fluid move along.  Fill the radiator up, run up the
accelerator up and watch what happens, the fluid gets drawn down into the
radiator.

Once heat is coming through the vents, you know the air in that part is out,
and the engine is up to temperature.
Some cars due to the design, it can be difficult to get all the air out.
This method speeds the process along rather than waiting for a heat and cool
cycle.

Signature

Stephen W. Hansen
ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician
ASE Undercar Specialist

http://autorepair.about.com/cs/troubleshooting/l/bl_obd_main.htm
http://www.troublecodes.net/technical/

>> No heat = Air pocket in heater core.
>> Remove the rad cap, fill almost to top and idle until eng is hot. Now
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Wouldn't the air bubble travel to the overflow bottle with the cap left on
> ?
m Ransley - 27 Nov 2005 23:08 GMT
No heat is more likely caused be a stuck or bad water control valve, or
cable problems on the  valve on the firewall, a cable goes inside from
the valve and can be moved by hand to be sure its in the correct
position.

Or a clogged heater core.

Check the radiator, but removing the radiator cap should not have been
necessary, filling the radiator should not be necessary as that is what
the expansion tank does, maintain level, that you keep at the proper
level. Air should purge itself after 10 miles or so, and does, if it
gets hot the fans should come on automaticly, thats how its designed.
Stephen H - 28 Nov 2005 00:31 GMT
In a perfect world yes. But many of today's cars DO NOT have a heater
control valve, they use a "blend door" to control the amount of heat in the
car. Weather this car does or doesn't  have one doesn't matter.
Whenever the system gets air in it as with a radiator replacement, the
heater core gets full of air.
The expansion tank ONLY works to its full ability when the car gets to full
hot, then back to full cold. It is useless for eliminating massive air from
a system, in fact you can have the car overheat with a full expansion tank
and a air pocket. the cart will overheat AND be reading cold on the dash.
In my learning years in this field, I sent a car out of the shop with air in
the system. It overheated. The primary symptom was a cold heater.
This method is merely a easy, quick way of getting most all of the air out
of a system that has been worked on. The lack of heat is a symptom of
something else; and re-reading the original post I would be convinced he has
air. Now he still needs to replace the rad to prevent other issues in the
future.
What good will getting the air out of it anyway do when the waters going to
leak out again.

Signature

Stephen W. Hansen
ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician
ASE Undercar Specialist

http://autorepair.about.com/cs/troubleshooting/l/bl_obd_main.htm
http://www.troublecodes.net/technical/

> No heat is more likely caused be a stuck or bad water control valve, or
> cable problems on the  valve on the firewall, a cable goes inside from
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> level. Air should purge itself after 10 miles or so, and does, if it
> gets hot the fans should come on automaticly, thats how its designed.
m Ransley - 28 Nov 2005 01:04 GMT
I agree with you, but I cant find his original post-webtv crap, so I
dont know the whole story or anything about a radiator.  but he could
also have a bad thermostat opening to early or even a non sealing non
Oem thermostat. I say that because my last mech put in a non Oem and for
years I had little heat till I found the Non Oem was a bit smaller in
the gasket. never sealing completely. I do drain my radiators on my
camrys every few years, 4 cil,  I fill them, run till hot, then drive
and in 10 minutes air is out, without raising engine temp, I then
refill. But as a radiator goes down so will the expansion tank, but
perhaps as you say not to fill in one run.
Pszemol - 28 Nov 2005 16:52 GMT
> I agree with you, but I cant find his original post-webtv crap, so I
> dont know the whole story or anything about a radiator.

Here is the copy of his original posting just for your WebTV:

"target" <target10272000@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1133063265.135917.243530@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Hey all-
> I have a 93 Camry SE V6. The car overheated when my girl was driving it
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> run the car with no radiator cap on because the radiator is leakin like
> a sieve. Could this be connected to the prob? ....TY in advance!!
Dave's - 28 Dec 2005 07:40 GMT
While at a local tire shop a guy was waiting to have the anti-freez
replaced in his Corvette.  When they got to it the tech informed hi
they couldn't do it by company rules on vette's due to their propensit
to over-heat from air pockets created while draining and refilling.  
have always used the radiator cap removed method on all my cars.  Fil
it, run it until it warms up and the tstat opens, rev it somewhat an
add until the level no longer drops when rev'ed

--
Dave'
Stephen H - 29 Dec 2005 02:53 GMT
We now use a vacuumed exchanger; may not get all the fluid but reduces air
pockets.

Signature

Stephen W. Hansen
ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician
ASE Automobile Advanced Engine Performance
ASE Undercar Specialist

http://autorepair.about.com/cs/troubleshooting/l/bl_obd_main.htm
http://www.troublecodes.net/technical/

> While at a local tire shop a guy was waiting to have the anti-freeze
> replaced in his Corvette.  When they got to it the tech informed him
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> it, run it until it warms up and the tstat opens, rev it somewhat and
> add until the level no longer drops when rev'ed.
target - 27 Nov 2005 14:19 GMT
> No heat = Air pocket in heater core.
> Remove the rad cap, fill almost to top and idle until eng is hot. Now goose
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> http://autorepair.about.com/cs/troubleshooting/l/bl_obd_main.htm
> http://www.troublecodes.net/technical/

Hey Stephen-

I hadn't occured to me that air in the system could be the issue-
thanks!  I'm sure that air in the system can't be helping the water
pump flow either.

 I wish I was able to do a compression test myself too...could save
myself alot of trouble from square 1, ya know? No coolant in the oil
though (I drained, inspected  and refilled) Thats a plus I guess!
0_Qed - 27 Nov 2005 04:15 GMT
> Hey all-
> I have a 93 Camry SE V6. The car overheated when my girl was driving it
> due to a blown radiator.

:-0
"LFs" and Sailboats are =expensive= to afford & maintain.

> Unfortunatly, I'm afraid that maybe she drove
> a it bit into the "red zone" and I wanted some advice before I bother
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> run the car with no radiator cap on because the radiator is leakin like
> a sieve. Could this be connected to the prob? ....TY in advance!!

.........

Does the eng_compartment hot_water valve to the in_cabin heater core
work ???
Hose/core get hot ???
Blockage ??? Valve inoperative ???

" No cap " lowers boiling point, 'tf' the water temp too.
Less efficient cooling than at elev temps.

Getting any oil in the coolant water ???
Seeing bubbles in open radiator fill port ???
Blown hd gasket.

Me? ... I'd ;
. Repair the 'rad' ... re_solder, or re_core ...
. quick change the engine oil & filter =after= ...
run it a while .
evaluate it,
then decide "further".

Ed.
MUADIB - 27 Nov 2005 05:47 GMT
It is possible that the heater will not "warm" until you have the
coprrect coolant too. if you do not have the proper stuff it will not
heat the way it should. I have experienced this personally or I
wouldn't believe it myself.

get the rad fixeed or replaced and follow the proper refill procedure
and all should work fine.
Remove  "YOURPANTIES" to reply    

MUADIB®

http://www.angelfire.com/retro/ssterile/MAIN%20PAGE.html

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