Do you smell anything at all when driving?  How about when putting the
air intake into RECIRC mode instead of FRESH air... same effect?

I have a similar problem with my 97 Camry.  Whenever the air is coming
into the cabin and I am sitting still there is an odor that smells like
engine oil or such.  When moving or system on RECIRC there is no such
odor.

I have had it looked at also and they say there are no oil or coolant
leaks.  They suggested there was mold in the heater core and instructed
me to use some sort of spray that was supposed to kill it .  That
didn't work.

The closest I have got to the source is the PCV valve right below the
fresh air inlets.  If I put my nose near it I think I smell the same
odor.  I have replaced it with a factory one but the problem remains.
I think there is some sort of leak in the engine bay that gets sucked
in through the vents when the fan is on.  When the vehicle moves the
odor is whisked away by the outside air.  I don't think I have a heater
core problem since when the outside air is shut off and the system
recirculates there is no odor.

Good luck with your search and let us know what steps you take.

Sounds like a perfect question for these guys:

http://www.cartalk.com/menus/show.html

Thy joke around a lot, but I believe both hold a Ph.D from MIT, have
been in the car business for decades, and generally have keen insigths
to unusual car problems.
Give 'em a call.

They say coolant has a sweet taste - not bitter.
That's why you don't want to leave any spills on the ground - pets may
drink it - and it is poisonous.
CO is odorless - that's why it is dangerous - not sure why you would
experience a bitter taste from that, although the headache sounds right
if you're breathing CO because it displaces oxygen in the bloodstream.
Perhaps try one of those Home Depot type CO detectors designed for home
use, and place it in the car. CO is what kills people when they sleep
with a defective wall heater.
Sometimes mechanics can be mistaken, and the headache could be a
symptom of a seriously dangerous problem if one of the exhaust gaskets
isn't sealing completely.
More likely though, I would guess that you have an oil leak somewhere
in the engine compartment, with a tiny amount of oil seeping onto the
exhaust manifold or engine block. I can more readily see that giving
the bitter taste since you don't specify oil type and burned oil does
contain a small amount of ash.
Most likely source would be the valve cover gasket - and seepage would
be consistent with your stated mileage.
I replaced the valve cover gasket on my four cylinder, and found the
four 30mm spark plug tube nuts that hold the cover in place were all
loose. Installed brand new factory fresh gasket, properly sealed around
the cams with Toyota FIPG (liquid sealer) and apx. 20,000 miles later,
noticed the hint of seepage beginning again. Re-checked the torque at
the hold down nuts - and they were all loose again. Factory Service
Manual lists 17 ft. lbs. I'm guessing the new gasket material
compresses over time because both the head and valve cover are aluminum
which have thermal movement with normal engine warming and cooling
cycles.
People have different sensitivities. Most older truck engines reek of
burning oil smell and I don't think those guys get headaches, but you
may have a sensitivity to it.

 a..
Monday, January 30, 2006

Study finds toxic threat in auto interiors

Chemical industry disputes report on dangers; Volvo cited as leader in
interior air quality.

Jeff Plungis / Detroit News Washington Bureau

Advertisement

Best and worst for toxic chemicals

Flame retardants
Best: Hyundai, Volvo, BMW, Honda USA, Ford
Worst: Mercedes, Chrysler, Toyota USA, Subaru, VW
Plastic softeners
Best: Volvo, BMW, VW, GM, Toyota USA
Worst: Hyundai, Ford, Toyota, Chrysler, Subaru
Source: Ecology Center

 a..  Printer friendly version
 b..  Comment on this story
 c..  Send this story to a friend
 d..  Get Home Delivery
WASHINGTON -- A report by an Ann Arbor environmental group that says toxic
chemicals are present in automobile interiors at levels five to 10 times
higher than those found in homes and offices has sparked protests from the
chemical industry and interest from automakers.

The report, "Toxic at Any Speed," was released by the Ecology Center on Jan.
11, amid the din of the North American International Auto Show in Detroit.

The report, based on samples of windshield film and dust samples from
randomly selected cars made by 11 leading manufacturers, concludes there is
a pervasive safety threat that few consumers know about: Cars can expose
their occupants to worrisome levels of toxic chemicals, emitted from the
materials used to make seating, carpets, arm rests and wire coverings.

The Environmental Protection Agency has called indoor air pollution one of
the top five environmental risks to public health, said Jeff Gearhart, an
Ecology Center researcher who co-wrote the report. According to the center's
tests, car air quality is worse than what is typically found in buildings
and far worse than outdoor air -- at least as far as two types of toxic
chemicals are concerned.

The pattern of one of the chemicals cited in the report, a flame-retardant
named decabrominated diphenyl ether, or deca-BDE, has been accumulating in
the environment and is the subject of a growing number of studies, Gearhart
said. The chemical has been linked to health effects in laboratory animals
similar to other toxic chemicals, like slowing brain development and causing
reproductive problems and cancer.

"They could create a legacy like PCBs," Gearhart said of the flame retardant
BDE, referring to a now-banned toxic chemical that found its way up the food
chain. "They have all the lineage of that type of environmental disaster. We
think the writing is on the wall. The smart people within the auto industry
know that."

The Ecology Center cited Ford subsidiary Volvo Car Corp. as an industry
leader in following a policy to reduce flame-retardant chemicals as concern
has grown in Europe. Volvo and other well-performing companies prove the
feasibility of providing safer alternatives, Gearhart said.

After the report, Volvo issued a statement touting its models' "best
interior air quality." The test scores were the result of a conscious
company policy to reduce interior emissions and improve air filtering, the
company said.

"In an age when many people suffer from asthma and allergies, it is only
natural for Volvo cars to offer its customers a good environment even inside
the car," said Anders Karrberg, Volvo's environmental director.

General Motors Corp. and BMW vehicles performed better than average for all
chemicals tested. Mercedes, Chrysler, Toyota and Subaru had higher than
average concentrations of both kinds of toxic chemicals.

Some companies had dramatically different results for different chemicals.
Hyundai had the lowest score of the 11 auto companies tested for flame
retardants -- with only a tiny trace equivalent to what is found outdoors.
But it had the highest score for a toxic plastic softening group of
chemicals called phthalates.

The Ecology Center said these chemicals have been linked to liver, kidney
and reproductive problems in lab animals. In 2003, the Centers for Disease
Control and Prevention said phthalates could cause developmental problems in
children.

Hyundai officials met with the Ecology Center last week to explore ways to
reduce their use of phthalates, Gearhart said.

But not everyone is convinced the chemicals cited in the study present a
problem.

The Bromine Science and Environmental Forum, the industry association
representing the four manufacturers of bromine-based flame retardants, said
the Ecology Center was asking manufacturers to abandon a proven chemical for
alternatives that may not be as effective. There were 297,000 car fires in
the U.S. in 2004, the group said.

"Automobiles are significant heat sources and therefore require the most
effective flame retardants available," forum chairman Raymond Dawson said in
a statement.

And automakers have already agreed to phase out two of the three flame
retardant chemicals cited in the report, said Eron Shosteck, Alliance of
Automobile Manufacturers spokesman. The remaining chemical has been studied
by the European Union for 10 years and has been proven safe, Shosteck said.

Even so, lawmakers and manufacturers around the world have attempted to
reduce exposure to some of the chemicals cited by the Ecology Center.

Reach Jeff Plungis at (202) 662-8735 or jplungis@detnews.com.

More Autos-Insider Headlines

This is a printer friendly version of an article from The Detroit News

To print this article open the file menu and choose Print.

Back

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Study finds toxic threat in auto interiors

Chemical industry disputes report on dangers; Volvo cited as leader in
interior air quality.

Jeff Plungis / Detroit News Washington Bureau

January 30, 2006

WASHINGTON -- A report by an Ann Arbor environmental group that says toxic
chemicals are present in automobile interiors at levels five to 10 times
higher than those found in homes and offices has sparked protests from the
chemical industry and interest from automakers.

The report, "Toxic at Any Speed," was released by the Ecology Center on Jan.
11, amid the din of the North American International Auto Show in Detroit.

The report, based on samples of windshield film and dust samples from
randomly selected cars made by 11 leading manufacturers, concludes there is
a pervasive safety threat that few consumers know about: Cars can expose
their occupants to worrisome levels of toxic chemicals, emitted from the
materials used to make seating, carpets, arm rests and wire coverings.

The Environmental Protection Agency has called indoor air pollution one of
the top five environmental risks to public health, said Jeff Gearhart, an
Ecology Center researcher who co-wrote the report. According to the center's
tests, car air quality is worse than what is typically found in buildings
and far worse than outdoor air -- at least as far as two types of toxic
chemicals are concerned.

The pattern of one of the chemicals cited in the report, a flame-retardant
named decabrominated diphenyl ether, or deca-BDE, has been accumulating in
the environment and is the subject of a growing number of studies, Gearhart
said. The chemical has been linked to health effects in laboratory animals
similar to other toxic chemicals, like slowing brain development and causing
reproductive problems and cancer.

"They could create a legacy like PCBs," Gearhart said of the flame retardant
BDE, referring to a now-banned toxic chemical that found its way up the food
chain. "They have all the lineage of that type of environmental disaster. We
think the writing is on the wall. The smart people within the auto industry
know that."

The Ecology Center cited Ford subsidiary Volvo Car Corp. as an industry
leader in following a policy to reduce flame-retardant chemicals as concern
has grown in Europe. Volvo and other well-performing companies prove the
feasibility of providing safer alternatives, Gearhart said.

After the report, Volvo issued a statement touting its models' "best
interior air quality." The test scores were the result of a conscious
company policy to reduce interior emissions and improve air filtering, the
company said.

"In an age when many people suffer from asthma and allergies, it is only
natural for Volvo cars to offer its customers a good environment even inside
the car," said Anders Karrberg, Volvo's environmental director.

General Motors Corp. and BMW vehicles performed better than average for all
chemicals tested. Mercedes, Chrysler, Toyota and Subaru had higher than
average concentrations of both kinds of toxic chemicals.

Some companies had dramatically different results for different chemicals.
Hyundai had the lowest score of the 11 auto companies tested for flame
retardants -- with only a tiny trace equivalent to what is found outdoors.
But it had the highest score for a toxic plastic softening group of
chemicals called phthalates.

The Ecology Center said these chemicals have been linked to liver, kidney
and reproductive problems in lab animals. In 2003, the Centers for Disease
Control and Prevention said phthalates could cause developmental problems in
children.

Hyundai officials met with the Ecology Center last week to explore ways to
reduce their use of phthalates, Gearhart said.

But not everyone is convinced the chemicals cited in the study present a
problem.

The Bromine Science and Environmental Forum, the industry association
representing the four manufacturers of bromine-based flame retardants, said
the Ecology Center was asking manufacturers to abandon a proven chemical for
alternatives that may not be as effective. There were 297,000 car fires in
the U.S. in 2004, the group said.

"Automobiles are significant heat sources and therefore require the most
effective flame retardants available," forum chairman Raymond Dawson said in
a statement.

And automakers have already agreed to phase out two of the three flame
retardant chemicals cited in the report, said Eron Shosteck, Alliance of
Automobile Manufacturers spokesman. The remaining chemical has been studied
by the European Union for 10 years and has been proven safe, Shosteck said.

Even so, lawmakers and manufacturers around the world have attempted to
reduce exposure to some of the chemicals cited by the Ecology Center.

Reach Jeff Plungis at (202) 662-8735 or jplungis@detnews.com.

Update:

I found out that my headache and bitter taste on my tongue come from
antifreeze steam coming from the cooling system.  At room temperature,
only sweet smell substance escapes the antifreeze giving the antifreeze
its sweet smell.  However, at high temperature, bitter-taste and toxic
substance escapes the antifreeze and enters the cabin giving me my
headache and bitter taste on my tongue.

I opened the hood while keeping the car running.  I could smell the
spoiling antifreeze (not sweet at all) all over the engine compartment.
The upper radiator hose seems real hot and generates the smell of
burning rubber.  This may indicate that the coolant is too hot (but the
temperature gauge shows normal half way).

Question: Is there anyway I can enable the radiator fan at a lower
temperature so that the coolant does not boil like that?

Thanks,
Madison18

Hi all:

Update:  Yesterday, I put 2 bottles of Bar's Leak stop leak (sealant)
into the cooling system (three times the recommended dose ).  Result:
the odor in cabin (passenger compartment) persists while driving and
the same odor is still strong in the engine compartment, especially
near the upper radiator hose.

My diagnosis and theory: my heater core is OK. But the flow of coolant
may be more obstructed than normal causing the coolant to be overheated
(more than 100C).  This in turn results in antifreeze penetrating
through side wall of the upper radiator hose causing the antifreeze
smell in the engine compartment.  This odor ends up in the cabin while
driving (i.e., penetrating through the firewall).  Note:  This all
happens to my car while the bottom part of the radiator and the lower
radiator hose are still cold, even further making me believe that my
coolant obstruction theory is correct.

Next approach: remove the thermostat and let the coolant flow freely
from start.

Note: because I have put in a new radiator and have flushed the cooling
system so many times, I think the coolant flow obstruction comes from
either the possibly defective thermostat or a weak water pump (the
previous owner just put in a new water pump and I suspect that this new
water pump may be weak/defective and started the odor problem causing
him to sell the otherwise good car to me).  However, dealing with
thermostat is much easier and much cheaper, so I will test my theory
with the thermostat first.

I will let you know how things turn out.

Madison18