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Car Forum / Toyota / Camry / October 2006

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Strut Mounts - Is my mechanic honest with me?

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bauz - 22 Oct 2006 19:17 GMT
I have no doubt that it's time to replace my struts and mounts, but my
concern is that my mechanic's honesty is questionable: I complained about
a noise from the drive shaft he installed few months ago, but he claimed
that the noise is due to bad struts. To prove his claim, he lifted the car
up and down and pointed to the fact that when the wheel touches the ground
there is some movement in the centers of both motor mounts when being
observed from the top (under the hood). According to him, there should be
no movement at all.
Shouldn't the tip of the strut have some freedom within the mount? should
I start looking for a new mechanic?

Thanks in advance for your comments and suggestions.
Jason James - 23 Oct 2006 00:37 GMT
> I have no doubt that it's time to replace my struts and mounts, but my
> concern is that my mechanic's honesty is questionable: I complained about
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Thanks in advance for your comments and suggestions.

You say "engine mounts"? Did you mean struts? If so, the mechanic is right,
the upper mount should hold the strut ball-bearing very firmly. Over years
of driving, the upper mount which is essentially a neoprene or rubber-like
donut shaped thing, no longer holds the bearing which allows the strut to
rotate as the steering wheel is turned, firmly. This causes the strut to
move sideways causing increased negative camber and if really badly worn, it
causes changes in camber of the road-wheel a the car travels around a bend.
I've experienced this in a Volkswagon Passat. Also, its likely, as the car
goes over more severe mounds in the road-surface, that noise will come from
the upper mount as the bearing slaps around in the worn rubber support. The
mechanic simply demonstrated the vertical wear, by jacking up the car so the
wheels were off the ground,..this would cause the strut to rest at the
bottom of the play in the mount, then as weight is re-applied to the strut
as the wheels touch the ground, the strut moves upward within the play or
slop in the upper mount.

Jason
bauz - 23 Oct 2006 03:10 GMT
Thank You Jason for the detailed and clear explanation.

PS - You are right - by mistake I wrote "motor mounts" (I don't know why)
but I meant the strut mounts.
Jason James - 25 Oct 2006 18:11 GMT
> Thank You Jason for the detailed and clear explanation.
>
> PS - You are right - by mistake I wrote "motor mounts" (I don't know why)
> but I meant the strut mounts.

The difficulty with worn suspension and some steering components, is
demonstrating that wear, 'cause the weight on the component often masks any
out of tolerance wear. So they use tire-levers or in your case, a jack, to
remove load off the mount, them re-apply it.

best o luck

Jason
Doctor J - 27 Oct 2006 18:42 GMT
If the bearing separates from strut mount, the whole strut assembly will
fall off, if the ball joint to steering knuckle bolts are removed.
Usually the rubber cracks between the molded in bearing and the outer
flange with three mounting studs. This problem is common on all
Cressidas and even on 96 Mazda Protege, I haven't see this problem on
late 80th Camrys.
The mounts are rubber and some movement is normal. If they are worn the
noise will be  most heard as suspension buttoms. The most common causes
for negative camber are the worn lower control arm bushings. Poor
installation methods such as hammering on the axleshaft for removal may
damage bearings in the hub/ differential causing hum/growl which is
speed related. I personally do not think that the upper strut mounts
are bad.

Signature

Doctor J

Jason James - 28 Oct 2006 09:51 GMT
> If the bearing separates from strut mount, the whole strut assembly will
> fall off, if the ball joint to steering knuckle bolts are removed.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> speed related. I personally do not think that the upper strut mounts
> are bad.

I agree that badly worn upper strut mounts are not a common fault, however
once the car's weight is applied to the struts, there should be little
discernable vertical movement observed at the upper support, and that is
what the mechanic was pointing out.
With such wear, the road-wheels camber will change as side loading is
applied during cornering. The lower ball-joint can producing camber changes,
sure, but keep in mind the lower BJ is a locating component, not load
bearing in Strut front-ends.

Jason

Jason
RACEGUY - 28 Oct 2006 17:28 GMT
"I have no doubt that it's time to replace my struts and mounts"

I guess you're questioning the methodology of your mechanic's static
demonstration or test, but to cut to the chase, if you're convinced it's
time to replace your struts, it's not even a question that you replace the
bearings or mounts. That's one of those "since we're in there anyway"
situations.

Just to back up what others have said, this is not an assembly you want
"slop" in (yes, "limited flex" may be natural in bonded rubber/metal
assemblies). You didn't actually describe your noise or the circumstances
involved when the noise presented itself, but I'm not questioning "your guy"
just yet.

CHEERS!

Again, if you're replacing struts, consider new mounts part of the job

> > If the bearing separates from strut mount, the whole strut assembly will
> > fall off, if the ball joint to steering knuckle bolts are removed.
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> Jason
Jason James - 28 Oct 2006 19:24 GMT
> "I have no doubt that it's time to replace my struts and mounts"
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> CHEERS!

You'd be surprised how many folks just get the strut-guts replaced, ignoring
the upper mount, plus equally, how many mechanics just do what the customer
wants.

Jason
 
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