 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Car Forum / Toyota / Camry / December 2007'98 Camry Running Cold
Hello all, First, thank you for reading this message! I have a minor(?) problem with my car. It is a 1998 Camry LE with a 2.2 litre engine. I live in the Northeast United States and since the weather has gotten cooler I've noticed that there is not much heat blowing out of the vents and the temperature gauge is reading lower than normal. By that, I mean that the needle, which normally sits between the three and four o'clock position, stays closer to the cold position (C) or slightly under - at just about the five o'clock position. The problem is that it's not blowing very much heat, and the outside temperature is only around 30° - I may freeze if it really gets cold out! The strange thing is that If I stop moving and allow the car to idle for three or four minutes, the temp gauge goes right back up to normal temperature (between three and four o'clock) and starts blowing much warmer air. If I start to drive again, within a minute or two, it's back down to 'C' and the heater is blowing cooler air - not cold but not that warm. I've driven this car through five cold winters and it has always put out excellent heat. Also, I'm sure my engine gauge has always read between the three and four o'clock position even when it's very cold outside. My dad thinks it may be that the thermostat is stuck open and told me to just stuff some cardboard in front of the radiator. I'm wondering if something else could be going wrong, like maybe the water pump or a sensor. If anyone has any ideas, I'd be very grateful if you post them here. Thank you for listening, Kari >Hello all, > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >Thank you for listening, >Kari Best guess is that the thermostat has failed. As your dad noted, they generally fail in the open position. Not an expensive job and after 8 years it is due for replacement anyway. Replace with Toyota or Stant brand. Some of the other aftermarket brands aren't much good. > Hello all, > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Thank you for listening, > Kari As previous poster said, sounds like a new thermostat is in order. Not only does it make for chilly driving, the engine doesn't operate as well as it should with this problem. Don't follow Dad's advice about the cardboard. I have the '97 version of the same car. I would first try what your dad suggested to get some more data. I'm 90% sure the problem is a stuck open thermostat. Blocking the radiator will prove the point as it will prevent the cold air from adequately cooling the radiator coolant. The thermostat is a regulating device which attempts to regulate the temperature to 180deg. >Hello all, > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >Thank you for listening, >Kari > I have the '97 version of the same car. I would first try what your dad > suggested to get some more data. I'm 90% sure the problem is a stuck open > thermostat. Blocking the radiator will prove the point as it will prevent the > cold air from adequately cooling the radiator coolant. The thermostat is a > regulating device which attempts to regulate the temperature to 180deg. You can check the thermo without the cardboard and without the risk of problems associated with it....Just feel the radiator hose as described in this link....it also mentions several other possible problems....and cautions against cardboard.... Regardless, the thermostat is the most likely culprit... http://autos.yahoo.com/maintain/repairqa/fluids_heat_air_conditioning/ques020_3.html >> I have the '97 version of the same car. I would first try what your dad >> suggested to get some more data. I'm 90% sure the problem is a stuck open [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Regardless, the thermostat is the most likely culprit... There were some high end cars (I think of Packards) which were able to close the slats in the grille in front of the radiator and thus augment the heat of the radiator water (and anti-freeze). But the cardboard is not a good idea. Go for the thermostat replacement. >>> I have the '97 version of the same car. I would first try what your dad >>> suggested to get some more data. I'm 90% sure the problem is a stuck open [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > of the radiator water (and anti-freeze). But the cardboard is not a good > idea. Go for the thermostat replacement. Here in Canada, everybody does the cardboard thing, and I've never heard of a case of overheating because of it. Lots of those same people idle their cars for 15 minutes using remote car starters before they start driving, and, again, no overheating. -- ... "`... then I decided that I was a lemon for a couple of weeks. I kept myself amused all that time jumping in and out of a gin and tonic.' Arthur cleared his throat, and then did it again. `Where,' he said, `did you...?' `Find a gin and tonic?' said Ford brightly. `I found a small lake that thought it was a gin and tonic, and jumped in and out of that. At least, I think it thought it was a gin and tonic.' `I may,' he addded with a grin which would have sent sane men scampering into the trees, `have been imagining it.'" - Ford updating Arthur about what he's been doing for the past four years. > > <timb...@mailcity.com> wrote in message > >news:2d76ee1f-e5fb-415e-91f2-76ff2712f51d@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com... [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Use a Toy thermostat, Ive had bad luck with aftermarket not being sized right or not working. >>><timb...@mailcity.com> wrote in message >>>news:2d76ee1f-e5fb-415e-91f2-76ff2712f51d@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com... [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >>their cars for 15 minutes using remote car starters before they start >>driving, and, again, no overheating. I think the main risk with cardboard is in leaving it in place when the weather warms - even for a day in January. Since there is no good reason to do it in this case, she shouldn't. I had a '64 Volvo P220 wagon that had a windowshade-like device, operated by a chain inside the car, that would selectively block off part or all of the radiator. Engine cooling systems have improved since then. > > <timb...@mailcity.com> wrote in message > >news:2d76ee1f-e5fb-415e-91f2-76ff2712f51d@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com... [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > - Ford updating Arthur about what he's been doing for the past four years. Well I`m in Kanada and I DONT use a cardboard in front of my rad and I dont know anyone else who does. Even my daughter who lives inthe far north where temps go to -45 in the winter doesnt use a cardbaord rad cover. Those days are gone now with the modern cars.I HAVE used cardboard rad covers 50+ years ago when a therm. failed "open " in the winter ,but couldnt work on the car to replace it until the temp moderated to warm.(No garage) >Hello all, > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >Thank you for listening, >Kari Thank you all for your responses! I will replace the thermostat before doing anything drastic. I'm going to attempt it myself, while following directions downloaded from the Internet so wish me luck. Thanx, Kari > >Hello all, > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > Thanx, > Kari Pretty simple job really....I've done several of them....only screwed it up once, and that was because I let the edge of the "stat" slip and I bent it under the housing, which caused a nice leak....As someone else mentioned, since you are trying it yourself, do yourself a favor, pay a few extra $$$ and get a genuine Toyota "stat." Odds are something else will work, but in the aftermarket stats I have seen, none of them have this certain little hole that TOY puts in theirs. Maybe that hole is unimportant, but after doing all that labor (which isn't that much), hate to see the job negated by an attempt to save $5- $7 with another brand. Thermostats, coolant and ignition parts in my opinion should all be Toyota brand. All the rest, aftermarket is fine. On Dec 13, 10:41 am, Kari Walters <Ka...@nowhere.net> wrote: > >Hello all, > [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > Thanx, > Kari Pretty simple job really....I've done several of them....only screwed it up once, and that was because I let the edge of the "stat" slip and I bent it under the housing, which caused a nice leak....As someone else mentioned, since you are trying it yourself, do yourself a favor, pay a few extra $$$ and get a genuine Toyota "stat." Odds are something else will work, but in the aftermarket stats I have seen, none of them have this certain little hole that TOY puts in theirs. Maybe that hole is unimportant, but after doing all that labor (which isn't that much), hate to see the job negated by an attempt to save $5- $7 with another brand. Thermostats, coolant and ignition parts in my opinion should all be Toyota brand. All the rest, aftermarket is fine. and, IMPORTANT!, don't ever replace the thermostat upside down ! Note carefully when you remove the housing which way the damned thing is facing. It really isn't a hard job, and with a decent socket wrench, it shouldn't take long. Check for leakage at the base of the housing when you're done, by running the engine for a few minutes. ...and DO get a genuine Toyota thermostat. The simples thing would be the thermostat failing in the open position as mentioned. However, if replacement with a Toyota thermostat and Toyota coolant with distilled water (or the new Toyota Pink pre-mixed, do not add water) and you still have the problem, then it's either overcooling (which is not likely as you mentioned prior winters) or a leaking head gasket. > Hello all, > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Thank you for listening, > Kari Hello again! I just wanted to give a big thank you to everyone who helped with my problem. Yesterday evening, on my own, I replaced the thermostat!. It wasn't quite as easy as I thought, but I did it, there are no leaks, and my temperature gauge is now right where it should be -- just below the three o'clock position -- and rocksolid. The only problem I had was one of the bolts was blocked by what I think is the air conditioner unit. I had to borrow a wrench from my neighbor to get to it. But other than that everything went really well. Thanks again, Kari... Toyota Mechanic Extraordinaire >Hello all, > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >Thank you for listening, >Kari > I just wanted to give a big thank you to everyone who helped with my problem. > Yesterday evening, on my own, I replaced the thermostat!. It wasn't quite as easy as > I thought, but I did it, there are no leaks, and my temperature gauge is now right > where it should be -- just below the three o'clock position -- and rocksolid. Congratulations, Kari, and thanks for posting your follow-up - lots of people don't bother doing that and the folks in the newsgroup never get to learn what the problem really was. > Hello again! > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Thanks again, > Kari... Toyota Mechanic Extraordinaire Good going Kari, and thanks for the results of your surgery on the Camry. If you had the time or interest you might want to take the old thermostat and look at where the spring seals it closed. This is to shut off the water to and from the engine....and when the engine starts and heats up, the spring will open the seal when the temp reaches operating level, allowing the water to flow through the cooling system. If your old thermostat does not close all the way when cold, it means the water never reaches the high temperature it's supposed to. Unless you're concerned about the heater not getting the hot water going through it to warm you, there's nothing wrong with having a non-functional thermostat, except that your engine will operate too cold, and your gas mileage will suffer. Congrats on your job! (...) > Unless you're concerned about the heater not getting the hot water going > through it to warm you, there's nothing wrong with having a non-functional > thermostat, except that your engine will operate too cold, and your gas > mileage will suffer. (...) An engine that constantly runs too cold will build up acid in the oil, and will not last as long as a properly maintained engine. It needs to get hot to drive water condensate out of the oil, to prevent hydrochloric acid from forming. In the short term, or the Summer, a stuck-open thermostat won't hurt anything, but in the long term it's one of the cheapest ways to ruin your motor. > In the short term, or the Summer, a > stuck-open thermostat won't hurt anything, but in the long term it's one > of the cheapest ways to ruin your motor. I tested my thermostat initially by dumping it into some hot water and found that it didn't contract like it was supposed to. Then I tried again by gradually heating up the water (as it says to do in the factory service manual) and found that it worked fine. Anybody have any theory about this? Why would it not contract under thermal shock? > > In the short term, or the Summer, a > > stuck-open thermostat won't hurt anything, but in the long term it's one [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > service manual) and found that it worked fine. Anybody have any theory > about this? Why would it not contract under thermal shock? The rad is under pressure and it will work fine at 15lbs sq in. but when it is placed under a pressurized rad cap it wont open properly >> I tested my thermostat initially by dumping it into some hot water and >> found that it didn't contract like it was supposed to. Then I tried [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > The rad is under pressure and it will work fine at 15lbs sq in. but > when it is placed under a pressurized rad cap it wont open properly So you figure I ought to change the 'stat? It's the original one in my '99, which is why I tested it while I was replacing the timing belt/water pump. The engine seems to be running at normal temperature and the cabin air blows hot in a timely manner. >>> I tested my thermostat initially by dumping it into some hot water and >>> found that it didn't contract like it was supposed to. Then I tried [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > pump. The engine seems to be running at normal temperature and the cabin > air blows hot in a timely manner. If it isn't broke, ......etc If you took it out with the timing belt/pump change it would be a good time to change the stat. But if it's working now maybe until the next coolant change. > So you figure I ought to change the 'stat? It's the original one in my > '99, which is why I tested it while I was replacing the timing > belt/water pump. The engine seems to be running at normal temperature > and the cabin air blows hot in a timely manner. >>> I tested my thermostat initially by dumping it into some hot water and >>> found that it didn't contract like it was supposed to. Then I tried [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > belt/water pump. The engine seems to be running at normal temperature > and the cabin air blows hot in a timely manner. This is coming a little late, obviously, but if you are going to pull a thermostat that old, replace it, don't test it. It could test fine and then fail 6 weeks later. You mean it did not close but open properly with heating? Worn "heat motor" -- that wax bulb thing -- probably leaked wax out. When I changed out mine there was some waxy stuff at the top, so I assume it was the wax leaked out. > I tested my thermostat initially by dumping it into some hot water and > found that it didn't contract like it was supposed to. Then I tried > again by gradually heating up the water (as it says to do in the factory > service manual) and found that it worked fine. Anybody have any theory > about this? Why would it not contract under thermal shock? >> I tested my thermostat initially by dumping it into some hot water and >> found that it didn't contract like it was supposed to. Then I tried >> again by gradually heating up the water (as it says to do in the factory >> service manual) and found that it worked fine. Anybody have any theory >> about this? Why would it not contract under thermal shock? > You mean it did not close but open properly with heating? > > Worn "heat motor" -- that wax bulb thing -- probably leaked wax out. > When I changed out mine there was some waxy stuff at the top, so I > assume it was the wax leaked out. Sorry if I wasn't clear - the factory manual says to put the stat into room temp water and gradually heat it and measure the change in length near boiling. Figuring it would make no difference, what I did initially was boil some water and then dunk the stat in it for a while and then measure the change in length. What I discovered is that if you don't heat the water gradually with the stat in it, the length doesn't change. When I heated the water with the stat in it, the length changed to what it was supposed to. I was just wondering if anybody knew why the rate of heating affects the operation of the stat so much. I guess I just don't understand the principle of operation of the stat. Maybe I didn't hold it in the water long enough... Thanks for the other posts in this thread counselling me to change the stat next time I change the coolant, which will be in a year and a half. (or sooner if I detect the symptoms that the OP was having). Not only that, the ECU won't enter closed loop, so the oxygen sensor and catalytic converter can get damaged from extended open loop operation. Not to mention some transmission won't go into overdrive when the temp is too cold. etc etc On Dec 15, 11:01 pm, "mjc13<REMOVETHIS>" > An engine that constantly runs too cold will build up acid in the > oil, and will not last as long as a properly maintained engine. It needs > to get hot to drive water condensate out of the oil, to prevent > hydrochloric acid from forming. In the short term, or the Summer, a > stuck-open thermostat won't hurt anything, but in the long term it's one > of the cheapest ways to ruin your motor. I have the same problem Kari, what site did you use as a reference. I'd like to try replacing it myself. > Hello again! > [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] >>Thank you for listening, >>Kari |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.