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Car Forum / Toyota / Camry / December 2007How often brake fluid change?
How often should I change my brake fluid in No-ABS brakes? I am talking about a 1995 camry LE, 4-cyl, if it matters... > How often should I change my brake fluid in No-ABS brakes? > I am talking about a 1995 camry LE, 4-cyl, if it matters... You are overdue, ive read every few years is a good idea but few ever do it, the last time I did it they cheated me, and only did one wheel, luckily a freind caught it, that the 3 other bleaders were never touched. > > How often should I change my brake fluid in No-ABS brakes? > > I am talking about a 1995 camry LE, 4-cyl, if it matters... [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > luckily a freind caught it, that the 3 other bleaders were never > touched. Yeah, every 2 or 3 years. Dealers cheat by refilling the reservoir with clean fluid and not doing the complete flush (bleeding at all 4 wheels). Next time make the service order read "Brake fluid flush, bleed at all 4 wheels and replace reservoir fluid." Often, if you get very specific, they'll do all the work. If they ask why you are being so pedantic, tell them *other* dealers have cheated you on this same service. Like ransley said, when there was only one bleeder touched it's obvious. The other three had light coat of oxidation. And the dealer can get away by claiming they did "flush brake fluid" -- just through one bleeder. Two-year change interval is the common practice. In dry areas 3 years is probably ok too. I do them about every 1-2 years with the power bleeder. It makes it so much quicker: I use Valvoline SynPower synthetic (DOT 3/4) and Castrol GT LMA (DOT 3/4). Valvoline Pyroil DOT3 less often now since the price is about the same as the DOT 3/4 synthetics. I think the dealer still uses CCI, which has excellent dry boiling point but becomes crap quickly with moisture. The Valvoline and Castrol fluids mentioned are all low moisture activity fluids (read the MSDS sheets) that absorb less moisture than standard fluids. www.motiveproducts.com For those with ABS brakes make sure it's on the 2-year (or less) interval. The ABS module is expensive. > Yeah, every 2 or 3 years. > Dealers cheat by refilling the reservoir with clean fluid and not [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > If they ask why you are being so pedantic, tell them *other* dealers > have cheated you on this same service. > Like ransley said, when there was only one bleeder touched it's > obvious. The other three had light coat of oxidation. And the dealer [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > moisture activity fluids (read the MSDS sheets) that absorb less > moisture than standard fluids. Other than prevention against boiling over, is there any visible benefit of flushing the brake fluid? Can you tell somehow by just using the brakes how old the fluid is? What are the symptoms of old fluid? >> Like ransley said, when there was only one bleeder touched it's >> obvious. The other three had light coat of oxidation. And the dealer [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > using the brakes how old the fluid is? What are the symptoms of > old fluid? Brake fluid accumulates water, and the water will eventually cause rust in parts that come in contact with the fluid. That is the reason to replace it in non-perfomance applications. In normal use, every 5 years should be fine. The anti-corrosion additives also wear out. When corrosion starts, copper from the pipes leaches into the fluid, starts the copper corrosion process, and blah blah blah. I heard it's baaaad. Again, I flush every year or two so I dont know how bad. The shade of the fluid is not a good indicator of fluid age some said. You really should use the moisture test strip but will never be able to find. For me, if it's dark and about a year past then it's a flush. The Valvoline and Castrol LMA DOT 3/4 synthetics are more like two years in my experience than the Pyroil DOT 3. I didn't like the lubricity change in the Toyota CCI fluids so I don't use them. And I never wait until dark coffee. > Other than prevention against boiling over, is there any visible > benefit of flushing the brake fluid? Can you tell somehow by just > using the brakes how old the fluid is? What are the symptoms of > old fluid? I've seen that once by a dealer too!! > You are overdue, ive read every few years is a good idea but few ever > do it, the last time I did it they cheated me, and only did one wheel, > luckily a freind caught it, that the 3 other bleaders were never > touched. > I've seen that once by a dealer too!! > >> You are overdue, ive read every few years is a good idea but few ever >> do it, the last time I did it they cheated me, and only did one wheel, >> luckily a freind caught it, that the 3 other bleaders were never >> touched. I'll likely be flamed for this, but to me, flushing and replenishing brake fluid is on my priority list of "to do" items just below checking for navel lint and reading the boilerplate ads in the newspaper of people filing for "dba". I've never done it in any car I've ever owned (and that's quite a few over several decades) and up until a few years ago, a motorist who wanted a shop to do this would have been given a blank stare, like someone who wanted the air in his tires to be drained and replenished. It's (to me at least) just another way to allow a shop to generate a little income for doing something completely unnecessary. >> I've seen that once by a dealer too!! >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > replenished. It's (to me at least) just another way to allow a shop to > generate a little income for doing something completely unnecessary. Some manufacturers, mostly non-domestic and particularly European, specify brake fluid replacement intervals. I've seen articles quoting domestic automakers claiming it was unnecessary. Toyota doesn't list routine brake fluid replacement intervals in the US, so I guess they don't claim it is necessary. Pre-ABS I never changed brake fluid. With my more recent vehicles with far more complex braking systems (ABS, ESC, Traction Control, etc.) I have decided routine fluid replacement is a good idea. I do it every 3 years. I also try to stay away from opening up the brake fluid reservoir. You might want to read: http://www.aa1car.com/library/bfluid.htm http://www.babcox.com/editorial/bf/bf50412.htm Ed > Some manufacturers, mostly non-domestic and particularly European, specify > brake fluid replacement intervals. I've seen articles quoting domestic > automakers claiming it was unnecessary. Ford's one of them. Maybe GM too, I don't know. But they use expensive barrier hoses. I guess Toyota doesn't. > Toyota doesn't list routine brake > fluid replacement intervals in the US, so I guess they don't claim it is > necessary. I'm sure it's there in the service schedules book if not the manual. (I'll check again when the books get back.) > Pre-ABS I never changed brake fluid. With my more recent vehicles > with far more complex braking systems (ABS, ESC, Traction Control, etc.) I [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Ed >> Toyota doesn't list routine brake >> fluid replacement intervals in the US, so I guess they don't claim it is >> necessary. > > I'm sure it's there in the service schedules book if not the manual. > (I'll check again when the books get back.) I just looked at the Toyota Service Schedule for my SO's 2007 RAV4 - there is no mention of changing brake fluid. I also looked at the online Toyota Scheduled Maintenance Guide for a couple of vehicles (http://smg.toyotapartsandservice.com/index.php) and don't see changing brake fluid listed as a required service. Ed You're right. Just checked and it wasn't in the manual so I did recall incorrectly. The UK seems to be the place where people discussed the recommended 2-year interval, but not in the US where a schedule wasn't specified. However, I'll still keep my brake flush schedule. > I just looked at the Toyota Service Schedule for my SO's 2007 RAV4 - there > is no mention of changing brake fluid. I also looked at the online Toyota [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Ed > You're right. Just checked and it wasn't in the manual so I did recall > incorrectly. The UK seems to be the place where people discussed the > recommended 2-year interval, but not in the US where a schedule wasn't > specified. However, I'll still keep my brake flush schedule. I am not surprised changing brake fluid is recommended in the UK and not the US. I think it is considered routine service in Europe. I think even Ford and GM receommend changing brake fluid in Europe. On the other hand, oil change intervals in Europe are 10,000 miles for Toyota, while they are only 5,000 miles in the US (for current Toyotas). Ed >> I just looked at the Toyota Service Schedule for my SO's 2007 RAV4 - >> there [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> >> Ed I do my own easily with the PowerBleeder. So it's about $5-8 for a quart and about an hour of my time leisurely. However, in some Fords because of the barrier hoses they used they do not recommend brake fluid flushes. Toyota must be using cheap hoses then ;) Actually, Toyota specifies 2-year flush intervals. I'm sure they check navel lint too. ;) $5-8 every year or two? Cheap enough. Also an ABS module is quite expensive btw. Even if you don't have ABS Toyota still spec 2-year in the manual. > I'll likely be flamed for this, but to me, flushing and replenishing brake > fluid is on my priority list of "to do" items just below checking for navel [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > at least) just another way to allow a shop to generate a little income for > doing something completely unnecessary. > I do my own easily with the PowerBleeder. So it's about $5-8 for a > quart and about an hour of my time leisurely. However, in some Fords [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > an ABS module is quite expensive btw. Even if you don't have ABS > Toyota still spec 2-year in the manual. So I guess I am due for a one in my 1995 after 13 years of not doing it ;-) I just checked the US manual, and it was not spec'ed. So I did recall incorrectly, looks like the UK version may be different. But can use some verification there. > So I guess I am due for a one in my 1995 after 13 years of not doing it ;-) |
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