 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Car Forum / Toyota / Camry / March 20082007Camry V6 consumers reports not recommended. Why?
Looking at the autos issue of Consumers Reports, I noticed that the 2007 Camry V6 is not recommended. Does anyone know what is wrong with that particular model that it would be given this rating? Consumer Reports: Toyota Quality Sees "Cracks in its Armor" October 16, 2007 [snip] Toyota's Quality Cracks Revealed Considered by many to be the bible on product quality, Consumer Reports said the V6 version of the 08tundrasport_210 top-selling Toyota Camry and the four-wheel-drive V8 version of the Tundra pickup, both redesigned for 2007, now rate below average in Consumer Reports' predicted reliability rating. The all-wheel-drive version of the Lexus GS sedan also received a below-average rating. Because Consumer Reports does not recommend models with below-average reliability, these models no longer make the magazine's "Recommended" list. The four-cylinder and hybrid versions of the Camry and rear-drive version of the GS scored above average in reliability and will continue to with their Recommended rating. > Looking at the autos issue of Consumers Reports, I noticed that the > 2007 Camry V6 is not recommended. Does anyone know what is wrong with > that particular model that it would be given this rating? The problem is with the new U-series transmission for the V6 camry. These junk transmissions "skip gears" or "flare", so when you step on the gas, the engine just revs and the car doesn't move like it shifted into neutral by itself. It's been reported that Toyota will give you ONE free transmission, and if the problem comes back you're on your own (there is no known cure, just your roulette luck). The dealer suddenly won't recognize you any more. It's $4000+ to replace it. IMO Toyota should just license GM's new 6T series Hydramatic transmission for the V6. http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/2008/Photo%20Library/Trans missions/2008%20Automatics/08%206T70%20MH2%20MH4-6T75%20MY9%20MH6%20LoR.jpg > Looking at the autos issue of Consumers Reports, I noticed that the > 2007 Camry V6 is not recommended. Does anyone know what is wrong with > that particular model that it would be given this rating? > The problem is with the new U-series transmission for the V6 camry. > These junk transmissions "skip gears" or "flare", so when you step on [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > transmission for the V6. > http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/2008/Photo%20Library/Trans missions/2008%20Automatics/08%206T70%20MH2%20MH4-6T75%20MY9%20MH6%20LoR.jpg I have the AW 6 speed (same family as the Camry 6 speed) in a 2007 Ford Fusion. It has shown none of the weirdness Camry owners blame on the transmission. Seems to me the problem must be the powertrain control software and not the actual transmission mechanicals. Ed According to the following listsings, I think the Camry U-series for the V6 and the Mazda-6 are different transmissions. The Toyota U- series, then, is probably a cheap version that Aisin doesn't want its name on (AW BG6, TF-80SC). The Aisin 6 is used on: (2005-present Aisin 6-speed) Ford Five Hundred, Ford Fusion, Mercury Montego, Mercury Milan, Lincoln Zephyr, Lincoln MKZ, Mazda6, Mazda CX-7, Mazda CX-9, Land Rover LR2 - http://ocala.craigslist.org/aos/587934591.html Another source, wikipedia is probably not up to date, because the two Aisin 6 speeds FWD automatics are as follows: February 2005- BG6 -- 6-speed * Toyota Avensis, Toyota Corolla, Toyota RAV4, Mazda Mazda6, Mazda Mazda5, Mitsubishi Eclipse, Mitsubishi Grandis October 2005- TF-80SC -- 6-speed * Alfa Romeo 159, Alfa Romeo Brera, Alfa Romeo Spider, Volvo S60R, Volvo V70R, Volvo S80, Volvo XC90, Peugeot 407 > I have the AW 6 speed (same family as the Camry 6 speed) in a 2007 Ford > Fusion. It has shown none of the weirdness Camry owners blame on the > transmission. Seems to me the problem must be the powertrain control > software and not the actual transmission mechanicals. > > Ed > According to the following listsings, I think the Camry U-series for > the V6 and the Mazda-6 are different transmissions. The Toyota U- [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > * Alfa Romeo 159, Alfa Romeo Brera, Alfa Romeo Spider, Volvo S60R, > Volvo V70R, Volvo S80, Volvo XC90, Peugeot 407 I see that you are right. The Camry's U660E and the A-W 6 Speed Automatic used in the Ford Fusion (and other Ford products) are not from the same family. I guess the only thing they have in common is they are both A-W designs. I still wonder why Toyota would be having problems and Ford doesn't. Apparently A-W knows how to do a proper 6 speed. I assume Toyota must have been looking for some special advatage with their U660E and it hasn't worked out, yet. Ed >> I have the AW 6 speed (same family as the Camry 6 speed) in a 2007 Ford >> Fusion. It has shown none of the weirdness Camry owners blame on the >> transmission. Seems to me the problem must be the powertrain control >> software and not the actual transmission mechanicals. >> >> Ed More over, Toyota knew of the V6 transmission problem from the beginning, but decided to market the car anyway: http://www.autospies.com/news/Toyota-CEO-Admits-Toyota-Marketed-Camry-With-Bad-T ransmissions-21942/ Toyota CEO Admits Toyota Marketed Camry With Bad Transmissions Consumer Reports' decision not to recommend three Toyota vehicles does not signal an end to the company's bulletproof quality reputation, Toyota's U.S. sales chief told Automotive News today. Lentz said that despite the high-profile rebuff by the respected magazine, the Japanese automaker still placed first in reliability in six of eight categories, and 44 percent of the magazine's recommended vehicles are Toyotas. "The bad news from our perspective is we never want to see vehicles on the 'not recommend' list," he said. Lentz said that because of problems Toyota found with an automatic transmission, he was not surprised the V-6 Camry failed to make the recommended list. He said the problem was with design, not manufacturing, and was quickly corrected. "We knew in the very beginning we had a transmission issue with that vehicle," he said. The problem caused the vehicle to either get stuck in second gear or shift past second gear roughly. The problem can be traced to a snap ring that holds the transmission housing together. "I don't think it's going to have a long-term impact on the overall view of Toyota as a reliable product," Lentz said. [snip] Apparently A-W knows how to do a proper 6 speed. I assume Toyota > must have been looking for some special advatage with their U660E and it > hasn't worked out, yet. > > Ed Go with the hybrid. My wife has a 2008 and it gets about 35 miles per gallon in city stop and go and highway driving. Great car. > Looking at the autos issue of Consumers Reports, I noticed that the > 2007 Camry V6 is not recommended. Does anyone know what is wrong with > that particular model that it would be given this rating? > Go with the hybrid. My wife has a 2008 and it gets about 35 miles per > gallon in city stop and go and highway driving. Great car. If you don't do a lot of city driving, the four cylinder non-hybrid is a great choice. You get very good gas mileage, decent performance, and they cost a lot less. I've never really 'gotten' why people who want a Camry want one with lots of extra horsepower... >>Looking at the autos issue of Consumers Reports, I noticed that the >>2007 Camry V6 is not recommended. Does anyone know what is wrong with >>that particular model that it would be given this rating? >> Go with the hybrid. My wife has a 2008 and it gets about 35 miles per >> gallon in city stop and go and highway driving. Great car. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > they cost a lot less. I've never really 'gotten' why people who want a > Camry want one with lots of extra horsepower... Passing on a two-lane highway is much safer as you are in the oncoming lane for a LOT less time! Also, the extra power allows one to "drive out" of a lot of problem situations. I'd MUCH rather pay extra for 6 cyl, then a hybrid, as longevity of the hybrid is not a certainty. Too new and untried. I have never really "gotten" why some people obsess out getting an extra 1 or 2 mpg when these same people waste money on all sorts of things like bottled water, $5 flavoured coffees, 50 inch plasma TV's etc. One can save a LOT more money in other areas, rather than scrimp for few dollars on gasoline. >>>Looking at the autos issue of Consumers Reports, I noticed that the >>>2007 Camry V6 is not recommended. Does anyone know what is wrong with >>>that particular model that it would be given this rating? >>> Go with the hybrid. My wife has a 2008 and it gets about 35 miles per >>> gallon in city stop and go and highway driving. Great car. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > a LOT more money in other areas, rather than scrimp for few dollars on > gasoline. The hybrid gives you a heck of a lot more than just 1 or 2 mpg improvement. Plus it is significantly more powerful than the non hybrid 4. >>>Go with the hybrid. My wife has a 2008 and it gets about 35 miles per >>>gallon in city stop and go and highway driving. Great car. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > lot of problem situations. I'd MUCH rather pay extra for 6 cyl, then a > hybrid, as longevity of the hybrid is not a certainty. Too new and untried. It's always amusing to read about how more horsepower is safer - as if the four cylinder can't get out of its own way. This car is faster than most sports cars were in the '60's. > I have never really "gotten" why some people obsess out getting an extra 1 > or 2 mpg when these same people waste money on all sorts of things like > bottled water, $5 flavoured coffees, 50 inch plasma TV's etc. One can save a > LOT more money in other areas, rather than scrimp for few dollars on > gasoline. Try 5+ more MPG. I've read *many* posts here from people who like the power of the V-6, but regret not getting the four because they are getting so much worse fuel economy. (...) >>>>Go with the hybrid. My wife has a 2008 and it gets about 35 miles per >>>>gallon in city stop and go and highway driving. Great car. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > (...) Our 4 cylinder Camry has been averaging 33.4 which I think is good compared to the hybrid. I have never felt I could use more power but then my other car is a 240D Mercedes that does the 1/4 mile in 24 seconds flat. Steve Consumer Reports states in their April auto issue that they got in their tests overall mileage of 24 mpg with the 4 cylinder camry and 34 mpg with the hybrid overall. (Plus you get more power with the hybrid and the extra money also buys additional features.) >>>>>Go with the hybrid. My wife has a 2008 and it gets about 35 miles per >>>>>gallon in city stop and go and highway driving. Great car. [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > my other car is a 240D Mercedes that does the 1/4 mile in 24 seconds flat. > Steve > Go with the hybrid. My wife has a 2008 and it gets about 35 miles per > gallon in city stop and go and highway driving. Great car. Great! But how MUCH more did you have to pay for the hybrid, compared to a NON hybrid? >> Looking at the autos issue of Consumers Reports, I noticed that the >> 2007 Camry V6 is not recommended. Does anyone know what is wrong with >> that particular model that it would be given this rating? >> Go with the hybrid. My wife has a 2008 and it gets about 35 miles per >> gallon in city stop and go and highway driving. Great car. > > Great! But how MUCH more did you have to pay for the hybrid, compared to a > NON hybrid? We paid around $29k for it equipped with leather, navigation, etc. Pretty much the same equipment and price as the XLS with 6 cylinder but we get less power but much better mileage. My wife would never have been satisfied with the 4 cylinder non hybrid camry acceleration. The only disappointment in the car is the navigation system. It sucks compared to Honda's system. In fact it sucks compared to my Magellan 3200 which costs about $200. Well, Fujitsu-ten is not the company you'll go to for audio-nav systems. But they're like Delphi electronics to GM, so that's what you get. Even a courtesy driver in a Sienna told me the oem nav stinks. I use an older, portable Garmin Nuvi 350 with Sirf III antenna and NavTeq map. Still great and get free driver software updates. > We paid around $29k for it equipped with leather, navigation, etc. Pretty > much the same equipment and price as the XLS with 6 cylinder but we get > less power but much better mileage. My wife would never have been satisfied > with the 4 cylinder non hybrid camry acceleration. The only disappointment > in the car is the navigation system. It sucks compared to Honda's system. > In fact it sucks compared to my Magellan 3200 which costs about $200. >>> Go with the hybrid. My wife has a 2008 and it gets about 35 miles >>> per gallon in city stop and go and highway driving. Great car. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > have been satisfied with the 4 cylinder non hybrid camry > acceleration. Did your wife actually try the 4 cylinder Camry? Both my SO and Sister have new style 4 cylinder RAV4s (same engine & transmission as the Camry in a larger/heavier vehicle) and I don't see any problem at all with acceleration. If you drive 15k miles per year, you might save $500 a year on fuel. I am guessing that you could have purchased a 4 cyl Camry with must (but no all) the same options for $5k to $7k less. Unless you drive a lot, it seems to me it will be 8 to 10 years before the hybrid can be shown to be close to a break even proposition (and this assume similar repair and maintenance requirements). As for the Camry, the 0-60 for the 4 cyl was 9.6 sec, hybrid 8.5 sec and V-6 7.1 sec. I suppose 1.1 sec 0-60 is significant, but does your wife always drive with her foot on the floor? The quarter mile times were 17.5 sec, 16.6 sec, and 15.5 sec. There was almost no difference in the 0-30 times (3.7, 3.5, 3.3). I also wonder what happens around town in continual stop and go driving. I would guess that eventually the hybrid's performance would start to degrade during a particular trip with a lot of stop and go driving. It might be interesting to plot the 0-30 time for the hybrid over four or five back to back to back runs with a 10 second pause between runs. Ed The only time the hybrid doesn't get great mileage is before it warms up on a cold day. My wife's commute is about 1/2 hour of stop and go (mostly stopped) and she has no trouble getting 34 to 35 miles per gallon. The car often can hits 40 mpg on non- stop and go local trips which makes up for the times that it is warming up and not using the battery in cold weather. We haven't had it during the summer yet so I cannot tell you how it will do with the ac running. By the way it has auto climate control. >>>> Go with the hybrid. My wife has a 2008 and it gets about 35 miles per >>>> gallon in city stop and go and highway driving. Great car. [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > Ed > The only time the hybrid doesn't get great mileage is before it warms up on > a cold day. My wife's commute is about 1/2 hour of stop and go (mostly > stopped) and she has no trouble getting 34 to 35 miles per gallon. I get over 40mpg on my 4 cyl Camry on the road on long trips, but my daily commute (10 miles mostly highway) it's pretty crappy (low 20's), pretty much the same as our 6 cyl sonata (23mpg, but can't that car to get over 30 on the long trips), I guess the cold engine really hurts the mileage. As far as 4 vs 6cyl, even at todays gay prices, the money you save is pretty insignificant compared to the price you pay for the car (and taxes and yearly insurance etc) if you want the 6, go for it. The RAV 4 mpg 4 vs 6 cyl is only 1mpg (probably the engine weight is reason for the difference). > The only time the hybrid doesn't get great mileage is before it warms up on > a cold day. My wife's commute is about 1/2 hour of stop and go (mostly [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > haven't had it during the summer yet so I cannot tell you how it will do > with the ac running. By the way it has auto climate control. One of the trips my wife makes when she's late in the morning (i.e. frequently) is a slow speed (<40 km/h) 2 km ride in cold (-10 C) weather. I was thinking of a hybrid in the hope that she could use the battery for this trip, but from your post it seems that the engine would be running - is that right? >> The only time the hybrid doesn't get great mileage is before it warms up >> on a cold day. My wife's commute is about 1/2 hour of stop and go [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > this trip, but from your post it seems that the engine would be running - > is that right? Once the engine warms up to normal operating temperature it will use the battery. So you might want to check the gauge of your current car to see how long it takes to warm up on her particular drive. I live in NC and most of our mornings are warmer than yours plus our Camry sits in a attached garage so I really cannot give you concrete guidance of how it will do under your conditions. |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.