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Car Forum / Toyota / Prius / February 2005

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The real costs of fuel-efficient cars

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Jeffry L. Johnson - 19 Jul 2004 00:17 GMT
http://money.cnn.com/2004/05/18/pf/autos/efficient_cost_to_own/index.htm

The real costs of fuel-efficient cars
The most fuel-efficient autos may not always be the least expensive to
own.
May 24, 2004: 2:26 PM EDT

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - If you're looking to save money in this new era
of rising gas prices, cars with high fuel-mileage figures are tempting.

When looking at costs of ownership for five years, the cars that get the
highest gas mileage tend be the least costly to own, not counting their
depreciation. But while fuel costs are among the biggest items in
overall ownership cost, there are many other factors to consider.

On this list of the 15 most fuel-efficient, according to the autos Web
site Edmunds.com, the typical Honda Insight driver will spend more than
$2,500 less on fuel over 5 years than the driver of a Toyota Celica, the
15th-ranked car on the list.

Even though it has the lowest fuel costs in this group, the Honda
Insight is just the sixth cheapest car to own over five years. The
difference in costs between the Insight and the Toyota Prius, also a
hybrid and the least expensive car to own, isn't very large, though. The
Insight costs about $450 more to own for five years

Purchase costs could negate much of the fuel-cost savings of owning a
hybrid, at least over the short term. Even factoring in a $1,500 tax
deduction, the Prius is one of the most expensive cars to buy.

The Prius also has higher depreciation -- the reduction in a car's value
over time -- than most Toyota cars, according to Edmunds.com data. The
same is true of Honda's Insight compared to non-hybrid Hondas.
Ultimately, depreciation costs you money when the time comes to trade in
or sell your car.

Of the cars on this list, the two that hold their value best are the
non-hybrid Honda Civic and the turbodiesel Volkswagen New Beetle. The
turbo diesel New Beetle also ranks third in fuel costs, just behind the
Insight and Prius.

The non-hybrid Civic costs a few hundred dollars more in fuel costs over
five years than those cars, but it costs thousands less to buy. It also
holds its value much better than the hybrids.
       
MAKE    MODEL         Purchase  $1,500  Cost to  Fuel    Deprec-
                     Price   deduction   own*   costs   iation
Toyota  Prius         $21,460   Yes     $15,181  $2,896  $11,781
Honda   Civic         $12,988   No      $15,271  $3,746   $6,595
Toyota  ECHO          $12,671   No      $15,410  $3,849   $7,902
Honda Civic Hybrid    $19,651   Yes     $15,544  $3,122  $10,741
Volkswagen New Beetle $17,758   No      $15,608  $3,112   $9,383
Honda   Insight       $20,240   Yes     $15,633  $2,406  $11,635
Volkswagen Jetta      $18,563   No      $15,941  $3,112  $10,127
Scion   xA            $13,603   No      $15,949  $4,412   $7,899
Volkswagen Golf       $17,305   No      $15,996  $3,112   $9,397
Toyota  Corolla       $13,669   No      $16,099  $4,156   $8,196
Scion   xB            $14,773   No      $16,578  $4,810   $8,724
Dodge   Neon          $14,222   No      $16,763  $4,995  $10,937
Toyota  Matrix        $15,550   No      $16,916  $4,608   $8,499
Toyota  Celica        $19,692   No      $17,988  $4,995  $10,475
Pontiac Vibe          $18,408   No      $17,992  $4,608  $12,027

*Cost to own, depreciation and fuel costs are over 5 years. Cost to own
includes insurance, fuel costs, maintenance and repairs and other costs.
It does not include depreciation.
       

.
Michelle Steiner - 19 Jul 2004 01:48 GMT
> The Prius also has higher depreciation -- the reduction in a car's
> value over time -- than most Toyota cars, according to Edmunds.com
> data.

Is this for the classic Prius (20000 through 2003), or the "prius II"
(2004 through ???)?  The cars and the technology are so different
between the two, I do not think that the depreciation of the latter is
an accurate predictor of the former.

I do not understand the chart; how can a car that costs $21K have a cost
to own of only 15K?  Or is the true "cost to own" the sum of the
cost-to-own column and the Purchase-price column?

Regardless, what the article fails to address is that hybrid cars
contribute much less to pollution and help conserve fuel.

Plus, the Prius has a lot of neato techie gee-gaws not found in most
cars in its price range, or lower.

Signature

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Jeffry L. Johnson - 19 Jul 2004 16:35 GMT
> I do not understand the chart; how can a car that costs $21K have a cost
> to own of only 15K?  Or is the true "cost to own" the sum of the
> cost-to-own column and the Purchase-price column?

*Cost to own, depreciation and fuel costs are over 5 years. Cost to own
includes insurance, fuel costs, maintenance and repairs and other costs.
It does not include depreciation.
       

I think your questions should be directed towards the authors at the Web
address at the top of my original posting.
Michelle Steiner - 19 Jul 2004 18:16 GMT
> > I do not understand the chart; how can a car that costs $21K have a cost
> > to own of only 15K?  Or is the true "cost to own" the sum of the
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> includes insurance, fuel costs, maintenance and repairs and other costs.
> It does not include depreciation.

But does it include the cost of the car itself?  It apparently does not;
otherwise, the numbers do not make any sense.

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Jeffry L. Johnson - 21 Jul 2004 02:35 GMT
> But does it include the cost of the car itself?  It apparently does not;
> otherwise, the numbers do not make any sense.

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/specialreports/articles/59897/article.html

Special Reports
True Cost to Own (TCO)
Revealing the Hidden Costs of Car Ownership
By Philip Reed
Date Posted 05-01-2002

You've narrowed your choices to two new cars, but you can't seem to
decide which one is really the better deal.

The purchase price of each car is nearly the same. The features are
similar, and you like the way they both look. Still, a nagging feeling
tells you that there must be a meaningful difference between them, even
if it's not readily apparent during the purchase process.

Your intuition is right on the money. And now there is a new tool that
reveals the hidden costs ? all of the costs ? associated with buying,
owning and operating a car over a five-year period. It's called "True
Cost to OwnSM" (TCO for short), and it is a new consumer product
provided by Edmunds.com.

To show you how it works, let's look at two midsize family sedans. The
purchase price of one is $21,500 and the other is $22,400. You like each
one equally, so your inclination is to say, "I'll just buy the cheaper
one." After all, that would save you almost $1,000.

However, the purchase price is only the tip of the iceberg. What you may
find by reviewing Edmunds' TCO figures is that, over five years, the
cheaper car to buy is actually more expensive to own. Over five years,
it will cost $33,438 to drive the car with the lower initial price. The
more expensive car to buy will cost $30,140 to drive over five years.
The car with the lower purchase price costs 45 cents per mile to drive
while the more expensive car costs 40 cents per mile to drive (assuming
you drive 15,000 miles a year).

At this point you are probably wondering how Edmunds comes up with these
figures. There are seven categories of TCO costs: depreciation,
financing, insurance, taxes and fees, fuel, maintenance and repairs. The
costs are researched and placed into a series of proprietary algorithms
developed by Edmunds' statisticians. The result is an estimated total
ownership cost for a five-year period. This information is presented on
a single page on Edmunds.com for each vehicle (beginning with 2002
models). The information is standardized, so expenses for different cars
can be accurately compared.

TCO reveals a complete picture of car ownership-related expenses,
designed to help consumers make the right choice when purchasing a
vehicle. In fact, Bob Kurilko, vice president of Edmunds' product
development and marketing, remarked that some buyers might find that
"they can afford to buy a car, but they can't afford to own it.
Understanding a vehicle's TCO is extremely important to a person on a
fixed budget."

An Edmunds analyst who participated in the development of TCO used an
analogy to explain its value: "You are choosing between two shirts and
you finally decide to buy the one that is $20 less. But later, you
discover that it has to be dry-cleaned using a special process. Each
time you get it dry-cleaned, it costs $4 plus the hassle of taking it to
the cleaners. After five washes, the savings on the shirt you bought
have disappeared, and you probably wish you had bought the more
expensive one in the first place."

Additionally, TCO may confirm something that you already know and help
you solidify your decision on which car to buy. For example, it may be
common knowledge that a Honda Civic is a good value for the money. With
TCO, you can confirm this: The cost per mile is about 28 cents, one of
the lowest of any vehicle.

You can reach the TCO page via two paths:

? Click on the TCO link on the home page and enter the vehicle's year,
make, model and the ZIP code in which the car will be registered.

? Go to the Vehicle Detail Page for a specific car and look for the True
Costs link in the left-hand column.

On the TCO page, information is broken down into the following four
sections.

TCO Summary Section

The Summary section shows the results of the TCO calculations. The
information is presented in two ways:

1. The True Cost to Own figure. This is all of the ownership and
operation costs for five years.

2. The Purchase Price Total, is the sum of a vehicle's True Market Value
price (another car-buying tool from Edmunds), typically equipped
options, destination charge, base tax for the state and any applicable
luxury/gas-guzzler taxes.

The summary section gives you an at-a-glance picture of the purchase
cost of the car and all the related expenses. Surprisingly, you may find
that the purchase cost of the car is a bargain, while the ensuing costs
make it prohibitive for your budget.

Cost to Own Detail

The Cost to Own Detail section gives a breakdown of how the car's
expenses change over the five-year period. It shows the car's
depreciation (the decline in value). This would be important in a case
in which there was a sudden drop-off in value after, say, the third
year. Knowing this, the owner could sell the vehicle at that time and
avoid the subsequent loss of value to his or her car.

The other related expenses are shown in the table on the Cost to Own
Detail page. While some of the expenses decrease (financing and taxes
and fees, for example) other expenses increase (repairs and
maintenance). A cost-per-mile figure is also listed, providing yet
another way to compare different vehicles.

Compare Similar Vehicles

Moving down the page, you will see a section called Compare Similar
Vehicles. This reminds prospective buyers to consider vehicles made by
other automakers and lists alternatives, along with a thumbnail photo.

Also included in the Compare Similar Vehicles table are the True Cost to
Own five-year total, the purchase price and the expected resale value
for each vehicle. If any of the vehicles look like candidates, you can
quickly jump to the specific Vehicle Detail Page using the links below
the photos.

Purchase Price Detail

The final section is the Purchase Price Detail table. This lists the
typical expenses related to just the purchase of this vehicle. These are
costs that people sometimes overlook when considering a transaction.
Seeing them listed, and then totaled, can help you plan for such a large
purchase.

"Never buy a vehicle before consulting the TCO," said Kurilko. "It makes
ownership costs transparent and gives a breakdown year by year. In this
regard, TCO may influence how long a person owns the vehicle, the number
of years she chooses to finance the vehicle and other decisions.
Consumers can see the depth of the water before jumping in the deep end."

Larry Laumann, executive director of Edmunds' aftermarket data
operations, had one final thought, "The only thing we couldn't factor in
was the emotional side of car buying. That first moment when you look at
a car and say, 'I really like that!' There was no way to put that in a
formula."

Check the TCO of the vehicle you are considering to see the cost of the
car over time. You will see the big picture ? and not just the price tag.
der - 30 Jul 2004 02:31 GMT
ROTFL.  I have to wonder about the incredible amount of time people
spend trying to convince someone about how bad their choice is.  If
you want to attack someone (or their choice of whatever) go over to
one of the Mac sites.  They are a little more vociferous in their
response however.  I believe this group was created to allow prius
owners to exchange ideas and answer questions.  I don't see a
alt.autos.toyota.prius.superiority or even an
alt.autos.toyota.prius.advocacy where this stuff fits.  Many of us
purchased or are purchasing a prius for fairly wide number of choices
- not just TCO.  My own reasons are both professional and personal.
But I would rather see FAQs or How-do-I.... than all of this drivel.

> > But does it include the cost of the car itself?  It apparently does not;
> > otherwise, the numbers do not make any sense.
[quoted text clipped - 146 lines]
> Check the TCO of the vehicle you are considering to see the cost of the
> car over time. You will see the big picture ? and not just the price tag.
oli - 31 Jul 2004 04:28 GMT
> > But does it include the cost of the car itself?  It apparently does not;
> > otherwise, the numbers do not make any sense.
[quoted text clipped - 146 lines]
> Check the TCO of the vehicle you are considering to see the cost of the
> car over time. You will see the big picture ? and not just the price tag.

Woah they must be precogs.  Not even the Consumers Report
statisticians will be nervy enough to touch expected repairs on a new
model year car.  These people should also sit down and READ some of
the white papers and symposium papers presented by the Toyota
engineers on the various aspects of this car.  They would understand
some of the ramifications of what type of car this really is.  For
instance I wonder if the owners of this car realize with regenerative
braking, their friction brakes may last the life of this car?  Or that
oil lubrication is flowing BEFORE the engine on this car starts.  I've
followed this car's developments through all the presentations and
typical of Toyota engineering, nothing is left to chance.  I'll bet
the Toyota owners didn't even know this thing had an overdrive.  How
it works was an absolutely brilliant stroke of genius.
dbs__usenet@tanj.com - 03 Feb 2005 07:37 GMT
>> I do not understand the chart; how can a car that costs $21K have a cost
>> to own of only 15K?  Or is the true "cost to own" the sum of the
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> It does not include depreciation.
>        

How can that be in any way accurate?  

1) Some of these cars have not been made for the full 5 years, so the
resale, repairs, etc are just guesses.  No one has ever sold a 2003 car
after 5 years, for instance.

2) The insurance will vary greatly based on driver, location, insurance
company, class of car, etc.

3) The fuel impact will vary greatly depending on how, where and when
you drive.  A 2 mile a week housewife in Nebraska will have drastically
different results than a 70 mile a day commuter near San Francisco.

BTW, this is the Edmunds web site  that includes an extended warranty as
one of the cost to own, right?  It's also the one that figured hundreds
per year for service on the 2001 - 2003 Prius despite the fact that it
(service) was provided by the dealer free of charge.

The basic idea is good, but somewhat flawed.  Someone else pointed out
that the lowest cost of ownership comes from buying a trashed 20 year
old Ford for $100 and drive it till it's dead, then selling it to the
junkyard for scrap.

I actually did the same math as article, but used it to determine the
best time to trade my Prius in for a new one.  Optimal time appears to
be about 3.5 years.  Fairly low depreciation and no out of pocket for
maintenance or repairs.

Daniel
David Hooey - 01 Sep 2004 17:06 GMT
Since the 'Cost of Ownership' described here is actually an estimate of the
operating cost, I reworked the data a little include depreciation in the
Total Cost of Ownership.

     MAKE, MODEL Purchase Cost to Fuel Deprec- Total Cost
     own*    costs iation of Owners'p
     Honda Civic 12,988 15,271 3,746 6,595 21,866
     Toyota ECHO           12,671 15,410 3,849 7,902 23,312
     Scion xA             13,603 15,949 4,412 7,899 23,848
     Toyota Corolla        13,669 16,099 4,156 8,196 24,295
     Volkswagen New Beetle  17,758 15,608 3,112 9,383 24,991
     Scion xB             14,773 16,578 4,810 8,724 25,302
     Volkswagen Golf        17,305 15,996 3,112 9,397 25,393
     Toyota Matrix         15,550 16,916 4,608 8,499 25,415
     Volkswagen Jetta       18,563 15,941 3,112 10,127 26,068
     Honda Civic Hybrid     19,651 15,544 3,122 10,741 26,285
     Toyota Prius 21,460 15,181 2,896 11,781 26,962
     Honda Insight        20,240 15,633 2,406 11,635 27,268
     Dodge Neon           14,222 16,763 4,995 10,937 27,700
     Toyota Celica 19,692 17,988 4,995 10,475 28,463
     Pontiac Vibe           18,408 17,992 4,608 12,027 30,019

Consistent with other postings and TCoO analysis, the Honda Civic comes out
on top.

BTW, msn.com autos has some useful information on TCoO.

cheers,

> http://money.cnn.com/2004/05/18/pf/autos/efficient_cost_to_own/index.htm
>
[quoted text clipped - 62 lines]
> includes insurance, fuel costs, maintenance and repairs and other costs.
> It does not include depreciation.
 
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