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Car Forum / Toyota / Prius / April 2006Comparison of prius with Corolla LE
Consumer reports, in the article here: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-cars/high-cost-of-hybrid-vehicles-40 6/hybrids-vs-all-gas.htm compared hybrids to their gas equivalents and looked at projected savings (or not) in your fuel bill. In this article, they used a Corolla LE as their comparison car for the Prius, and came to the conclusion that you'd save $406 over 5 years with the tax credit, but lose $2,744 if it were not included. My question is: if you neglect the hybrid vs. non-hybrid issue, is the Corolla LE a good match for a Prius in terms of features, performance, level of luxury? Stephen > Consumer reports, in the article here: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Stephen Not really in my opinion. My 2005 level 6 Prius is closer to the Camry than to the Corolla and certainly more fun to drive. A more important consideration ignored by their tables would be hydrocarbon emissions. Beyond emissions, a consideration for me was where I was coming from. Just today I compared the mileage computer on my Prius with the mileage computer on my 1995 Explorer. My explorer uses 3.56 times the gas my Prius uses which, after 100K miles at $2.68/gallon yields a fuel savings in excess of $14,000.00. An equivalent Explorer (Eddie Bauer, 4WD, leather) has a considerably higher initial cost too. About half the cars and trucks on the road today are equivalent to my Explorer. I think it's more important our population consider the life style change, emissions and dependence instead of worrying about nickel and dime comparisons. In the same vein, their are a lot of what I call "feel good hybrids" (Toyota Highlander) that are meaningless in those terms. I agree on the environmental issues. In fact, I would at least consider some conversions that let you run far longer on electric only (like http://hymotion.com or http://www.edrivesystems.com). The former claims 7x longer on battery alone, while the latter claims double the fuel mileage for the first 50 miles. Very exciting, and I predict that plug-in hybrids will surge in popularity as some of the new battery technologies come online. What's the waiting time nowadays for Prius buyers? Anyone know if they have any towing capacity? Stephen >I agree on the environmental issues. In fact, I would at least consider > some conversions that let you run far longer on electric only (like [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Stephen They are NOT to be used for towing. It's in the manual as I recall, and one reason for keeping my Explorer. > My question is: if you neglect the hybrid vs. non-hybrid issue, is the > Corolla LE a good match for a Prius in terms of features, performance, > level of luxury? No, I think that's a bogus comparison, because the interior of a Prius is very much more like a Camry than a Corolla in terms of space, comfort, features and luxury. I drove a loaner Camry the day my Prius was in for its 30K maintenance and the performance felt about the same, and the Prius has more pickup than the Geo Prizm (a Corolla in disguise) it replaced. Comparably equipped, a Camry is, I believe, about the same price as a Prius.  SignatureMike Rosenberg <http://www.macconsult.com> Macintosh consulting services for NE Florida <http://www.cafepress.com/macconsult,macconsult4> Mac-themed T-shirts <http://bogart-tribute.net> Tribute to Humphrey Bogart > My question is: if you neglect the hybrid vs. non-hybrid issue, is > the Corolla LE a good match for a Prius in terms of features, > performance, level of luxury? Absolutely not. The Camry would be a better vehicle for comparison. (Pun intentional.) SignatureStop Mad Cowboy Disease: Impeach the son of a Bush. > My question is: if you neglect the hybrid vs. non-hybrid issue, is the > Corolla LE a good match for a Prius in terms of features, performance, > level of luxury? It's rather subjective, but they're not very comparable. Test drive them and see. > Consumer reports, in the article here: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Stephen My college roommate was all ready to buy a Prius until he sat down with the salesman. The Prius was going to cost him $10,000 more to buy that the Corolla LE he eventually did buy. As he said $10,000 buys A LOT of gas. If he was happy with a lesser vehicle, more power to him. I personally feel like I got a well-sized 30,000+ car for 26,000 ... and with gas trending upward again... I'm content... Russ >> Consumer reports, in the article here: >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > As he said $10,000 buys A LOT of gas. My friend can afford any car he wants, but a car is just an appliance to him. Just him or maybe one other person in the car 99% of the time. Corolla works just fine for him. > If he was happy with a lesser vehicle, more power to him. I personally feel > like I got a well-sized 30,000+ car for 26,000 ... and with gas trending [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >> >> As he said $10,000 buys A LOT of gas. > My college roommate was all ready to buy a Prius until he sat down with > the salesman. The Prius was going to cost him $10,000 more to buy that > the Corolla LE he eventually did buy. > > As he said $10,000 buys A LOT of gas. In contrast, I bought my 03 Prius for $17,300, about $900 more than the Scion we were considering. Depending upon how gas prices go, we'll have paid off the $900 difference in the first year. Bob Wilson Bob Wilson > My college roommate was all ready to buy a Prius until he sat down > with the salesman. The Prius was going to cost him $10,000 more to > buy that the Corolla LE he eventually did buy. > > As he said $10,000 buys A LOT of gas. And a lot of goodies that you can't get with the Corolla; if your roomie didn't want or need those goodies, he's better off buying a Corolla. When I was shopping for a Prius, quite a few salespeople tried to talk me into buying a Corolla; I told them, "I have a paid off 3 year old Acura TL. Why should I trade it in for a Corolla?" That pretty much shut them up about it. SignatureStop Mad Cowboy Disease: Impeach the son of a Bush. >> [...] > And a lot of goodies that you can't get with the Corolla; if your roomie > didn't want or need those goodies, he's better off buying a Corolla. Just what are those goodies, that would be enough (for some) to desire the Prius - aside from it being a hybrid, of course? > When I was shopping for a Prius, quite a few salespeople tried to talk > me into buying a Corolla; I told them, "I have a paid off 3 year old > Acura TL. Why should I trade it in for a Corolla?" That pretty much > shut them up about it. I drive a 1998 Corolla CE now, and in a few years I expect I'll be looking at a new vehicle again. I've been keeping an eye on what the Corolla LE is of late. If not most, at least a significant number of of my miles are highway. I could see leaning towards a Prius if I were comparing it against a Camry - the price and size are about the same, and the Prius has a significant fuel economy advantage over a Camry. The Prius certainly has the fuel economy advantage over any Corolla as well, but it also costs more. From an economic standpoint (and let's face it, feeling good about something does in itself pay any bills) the fuel economy advantage doesn't outweigh the price disadvantage. At least not until significantly worse fuel prices, but I stopped doing the comparison at $5/gallon where it still made more sense, for me, to get a Corolla. I like the idea of the Prius. It certainly is a neat machine. I just haven't been able to justify to myself the additional expense of it. SignaturePaul Neubauer, N9IOG Ned Flat: "Why are you acting like this?" Yakko : "We're not acting. We really are like this." Wakko : "Aren't we lucky?" > > And a lot of goodies that you can't get with the Corolla; if your > > roomie didn't want or need those goodies, he's better off buying a > > Corolla. > > Just what are those goodies, that would be enough (for some) to > desire the Prius - aside from it being a hybrid, of course? Oh, let's see now: the key fob instead of a mechanical key. smart start and smart entry HID headlights CD changer and upgraded audio system Navigation system. That sort of stuff. > I like the idea of the Prius. It certainly is a neat machine. I just > haven't been able to justify to myself the additional expense of it. Well maybe a Scion xA or a Toyota Yaris would be a better buy for you than a Corolla; they cost less than a Corolla does, and you seem to be focused on price. SignatureStop Mad Cowboy Disease: Impeach the son of a Bush. >> Just what are those goodies, that would be enough (for some) to >> desire the Prius - aside from it being a hybrid, of course? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Navigation system. > That sort of stuff. ....forgot to add that the Prius is a hatchback. Corolla? Not! Okay, the voice prompts like "Temperature 75 degrees" and then the lady under the dash responds with "Setting temperature to 75 degrees" is pretty cool too. The two cars are way, way apart in features. In the case of the Corolla, way behind. B~ > My college roommate was all ready to buy a Prius until he sat down with > the salesman. The Prius was going to cost him $10,000 more to buy that > the Corolla LE he eventually did buy. I'm not quite sure where your roommate got his numbers, nor why the current Prius is being compared to the Corolla... The Prius is a mid-size, and the Corolla is a compact. A better comparison is to the Camry. And the EPA tests are standardized, so you should use the same tests for fuel comparason (city to city or highway to highway or combined to combined). Car Sum (interior+cargo volume) Diff to Prius --------------------------------------------- Prius 110.6 (96.2+14.4) +0.0 Camry 116.4 (101.4+15.0) +5.8 CamryH 112.0 (101.4+10.6) +1.4 Corolla 103.8 (90.3+13.5) -6.8 all listings in cu. ft. EPA MPG Car City Highway ----------------------- Prius 60 51 Camry 24 33 CamryH 40 38 Corolla 30 38 150,000 EPA miles, @ $3/gallon: Prius @ 60MPG (city): 2500 gallons, $7500 Camry @ 24MPG (city): 6250 gallons, $18750, diff +$11250 to Prius CamryH @ 40MPG (city): 3750 gallons, $11250, diff +$3750 to Prius Corolla @ 30MPG (city): 5000 gallons, $15000, diff +$7500 to Prius Prius @ 51MPG (highway): 2941 gallons, $8824 Camry @ 33MPG (highway): 4545 gallons, $13625, $4811 diff to Prius CamryH @ 38MPG (highway): 3947 gallons, $11842, $3018 diff to Prius Corolla @ 38MPG (highway): 3947 gallons, $11842, $3018 diff to Prius But since you are comparing to a Corolla, we should use an accurate comparison of the Prius and the Corolla, which means comparible options. Since the Prius is an automatic (eCVT) v4 engine (MSRP $22305 including the $580 Delivery, Processing, and Handling fee), I'll use automatic Corolla LE (v4 engine) (MSRP $16695 with same $580 DPH fee).. Then start adding in options. It looks like a number are standard between the Corolla LE and the Prius: Power Windows, Power Door Locks, Engine Immobilizer, Power Side Mirrors (Prius' is heated too), AC, Remote Keyless Entry, 6 Speaker AM/FM/CD, Tilt Steering Wheel, and Dual front airbags. The Prius also includes ABS with tire pressure monitors, Traction Control, Cruise Control, a Rear Spoiler (it's small, but it's there,) and Alloy wheels. ABS/tire pressure monitor/traction control is package AB (MSRP $390), Cruise contol is only available in the audio package W (MSRP $200) (this will replace the Corolla's AM/FM/CD with a AM/FM/6 disc CD (same speakers) so we add $589 for a 6-disc changer to the Prius (which then has a 7- disc CD capacity fyi)). Rear Spoiler accessory RF for the Corolla is $425, and Alloy Wheels are package AW (accessory price $499, package MSRP $390). So that's 16695+390+200+425+390 = $18100 for the Corolla LE w/ the appropriate options and accessories. The Prius with the 6-disc changer is 22305+589 = $22894. The difference is $4794. Now, there's also tax incentives for the Prius. FWIW, for much of 2006, the US Federal Income Hybrid Credit comes into effect, which for the Prius is $3150. http://www.toyota.com/prius/tax.html http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=156048,00.html. There's also state incentives, depending on where you live (CO gives a $3,285 credit for a 2006 Prius (see http://www.revenue.state.co.us/fyi/html/income09.html ), for instance), but I'll ignore those for now since it's location dependent. So with the current $3150 Fed income tax credit as stated above, the price difference drops to $1644. So, if you always drove your car according to the EPA highway test cycle, and gasoline was a stagnant $3/gallon over the time it takes you to drive 150,000 miles, and you purchased a vehicle today, and ignoring sales or excise taxes (based on the vehicle price): To purchase the Prius you'd spend $1644 more than on the comparable Corolla LE, but after 150,000 highway miles you'd spend $3018 more on the Corolla LE than on the Prius. So, just comparing similar vehicles MSRP with their expected fuel use, you'd pay $1374 more for the 2006 Corolla LE than for the 2006 Prius. YMMV with state incentives of course. Also, for really calculating ROI on a vehicle (not just purchase price and gasoline cost), you'd need to calculate the different cost for maintenance, insurance, and the big one: depreciation, which definitely makes the Prius even more attractive. (Currently, used Prius can often be sold for more than the purchase price, depending on where you live and demand...) 2006 Prius: http://www.toyota.com/prius/specs.html 2006 Camry: http://www.toyota.com/camry/specs.html 2007 Camry Hybrid: http://www.toyota.com/camry/specs_hybrid.html 2006 Corolla: http://www.toyota.com/corolla/specs.html A Big part of it was supply and demand. I'm sure he got a discount off of sticker price for the Corolla LE whereas the Prius was probably being offered at MSRP or higher. >> My college roommate was all ready to buy a Prius until he sat down with >> the salesman. The Prius was going to cost him $10,000 more to buy that [quoted text clipped - 93 lines] > 2007 Camry Hybrid: http://www.toyota.com/camry/specs_hybrid.html > 2006 Corolla: http://www.toyota.com/corolla/specs.html I think we can do away with the 60 mpg figure for the Prius in town. Maybe if we all just drove on Toyota's closed test course all the time at whatever speeds they did to optimize mileage. From what I can tell, 60 mpg is not what any of us are going to get. Low to mid 50s, yeah. (In the summer) But still, low to mid 50s is fantastic fuel mileage compared with the other options out there. But I can't use the 60 mpg figure in any real world comparison. > A Big part of it was supply and demand. I'm sure he got a discount off of > sticker price for the Corolla LE whereas the Prius was probably being [quoted text clipped - 97 lines] >> 2007 Camry Hybrid: http://www.toyota.com/camry/specs_hybrid.html >> 2006 Corolla: http://www.toyota.com/corolla/specs.html > I think we can do away with the 60 mpg figure for the Prius in town. Maybe > if we all just drove on Toyota's closed test course all the time at whatever > speeds they did to optimize mileage. From what I can tell, 60 mpg is not > what any of us are going to get. Low to mid 50s, yeah. (In the summer) Darn, http://www.greenhybrid.com/compare/mileage/car/1506.html mpg (US) mi gal (US) °F Minutes Per Ride 62.4 162 2.6 80 45 [edit] [more] 63.9 139 2.2 80 20 [edit] [more] > But still, low to mid 50s is fantastic fuel mileage compared with the other > options out there. But I can't use the 60 mpg figure in any real world > comparison. I'm driving a model NHW11, a 2003 Prius. Bob Wilson > I think we can do away with the 60 mpg figure for the Prius in town. Maybe > if we all just drove on Toyota's closed test course all the time at whatever > speeds they did to optimize mileage. It's not Toyota's test. It's a test cycle established by the EPA, used to test all cars against it for an apples to apples comparison. If you know what your real-world fuel economy is in the car that you are currently driving, calculate the % difference from the EPA numbers on it, and then apply the same % difference to the Prius' numbers and then you'll have your "real world" numbers. "Real world" numbers are whatever you individually would get, depending on how you drive and where you live and how you maintain your car. The EPA even states that "Your MPG will vary." ( http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/why_differ.shtml ) US EPA Fuel Economy ratings for cars going back to 1985 are available at: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/ The cars are not put on a "closed test course," but they are put on a stationary dynometer (rollers under the wheels) in a lab and "driven" in a specified pattern. http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/how_tested.shtml http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml <quote> City: Represents urban driving, in which a vehicle is started with the engine cold and driven in stop-and-go rush hour traffic. The driving cycle for the test includes idling, and the vehicle averages about 20 mph. Highway: Represents a mixture of rural and Interstate highway driving with a warmed-up engine, typical of longer trips in free-flowing traffic. Average test speed is about 48 mph and includes no intermediate stops or idling. </quote> For some information published from Toyota on the issue: Prius Fuel Economy: Explaining the EPA Ratings Toyota explains what the EPA ratings actually mean, and lists ways to improve your MPG http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius/message/71431 http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Prius-2G/message/2742 http://www.priusonline.com/viewtopic.php?t=1079 Prius Fuel Economy Factsheet: http://www.toyota.com/images/vehicles/prius/Understanding_Fuel_Economy.pdf Tips for better Prius Gas mileage (near end of Spring 2004 newsletter): http://www.toyota.com/html/hybridsynergyview/archive/pdfs/priusview5spring2004.pdf Can I expect to get over 50MPG in the new Prius? (see question #6): http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/2005/prius/faq.html http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/2006/prius/faq.html |
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