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Car Forum / Toyota / Prius / September 2006

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Future Tech, plug-ins and electrics

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Tony Belding - 29 Jul 2006 01:01 GMT
Several days ago Toyota announced that they are developing plug-in
hybrids.  These are hybrids with larger battery packs.  They're
designed to be plugged into a socket and charged at night, then you can
drive up to, perhaps, 8 or 10 miles on battery power alone before the
gasoline motor kicks in.  You should get many of the benefits of an
electric car, but still retain the long range and ability to "fill her
up" at gas stations during those extended highway trips.

Some people have already developed conversion kits to make the exsting
Prius into a plug-in hybrid.  It does void your warranty,
unfortunately.  It seems likely that these homebrew kits, plus the
higher price of gasoline, spurred Toyota to give plug-ins a proper try.

As with pure electric cars, batteries are the limiting technology.  Not
only are they expensive, but the discharge cycle of an electric car is
much more demanding on batteries, and they are prone to degrade faster
than the batteries in a "conventional" hybrid.

One interesting aspect of this is that it could eventually pave the way
for fully electric cars.  I can imagine future models that move more
and more work onto the electrical system, with improved battery
technology, until it becomes practical to jettison the gasoline engine
completely.

Now, speaking of electric cars. . .   I was floored by the recent
unveiling of the Tesla Roadster.  It's going to be an expensive car and
very much a toy rather than a practical, economical car -- but what a
toy!  You are looking at 0-60 MPH in 3.7 seconds, upwards of 250 miles
driving range per charge, and top speed about 135 MPH.  It appears that
battery technology is just beginning to edge over the line of adequacy
for electric cars.  Storage technology (both batteries and
supercapacitors) is being heavily researched around the world, so it's
only going to get better.

I can imagine five or six years from now, electric cars becoming really
practical.  The benefits can be huge.  These cars can get energy
efficiency equivalent to 135 MPG.  Mechanically they are very simple:
no complex engine to repair or keep in tune, no oil changes, no filters
or hoses, no spark plugs, no exhaust system.  They could have a long
lifespan with very little maintenance.  Based on some storage
technology that's in labs today, it's just possible they might achive
400-mile range, fast recharge, and much reduced battery degradation
over time (or practically none, in the case of supercaps).

We aren't there yet.  But I'm beginning to feel optimistic, there's a
light at the end of the tunnel for electric cars.  It's getting close
enough to think about buying one sometime before I get onto Social
Security.  :)

Signature

Tony Belding, Hamilton Texas

Dave - 29 Jul 2006 03:49 GMT
Just remember that total electric cars just shift the pollution to the
power plants, most burying coal or oil.

> Several days ago Toyota announced that they are developing plug-in
> hybrids.  These are hybrids with larger battery packs.  They're designed
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
> enough to think about buying one sometime before I get onto Social
> Security.  :)
mrv@kluge.net - 29 Jul 2006 14:49 GMT
> Just remember that total electric cars just shift the pollution to the
> power plants, most burying coal or oil.

Depending on the source for electricity in your area, a BEV may or
maynot put out more greenhouse gas emissions than a 55MPG HEV.  Mainly,
if the primary source for electricity in your area is coal (much of the
northeast), your HEV is cleaner than a BEV running on coal-powered
electricity.  However, if your electricity source is natural gas, the
BEV is usually cleaner  than the HEV (depending on the method used for
natural gas->electricity conversion), and it gets  even better for the
BEV if you are using a hydroelectric or other renewable electric
source.  In  comparisons with a generic 17MPG SUV, an average 26MPG
vehicle, and a high-efficiency  38MPG vehicle, the 38MPG vehicle still
will beat the coal-powered BEV, but isn't as clean as the  HEV (and gas
and renewables powered BEVs are much better than the 38MPG vehicle).

see: "Battery-Powered Electric and Hybrid Electric Vehicle Projects to
Reduce Greenhouse Gas Emissions:  A Resource Guide for Project
Development," July 2002
http://www.netl.doe.gov/products/ccps/pubs/resguide.pdf
http://www.eere.energy.gov/cleancities/international/pdfs/hev_ev_ghgreductions.pdf
mainly section 4.3

(and that's besides the arguements that it's easier to manage emissions
from a handful of electric plants, as opposed to millions of
independently-owned cars...  typically, electric charging rates are
still cheaper than petroleum rates, too.)
Tony Belding - 22 Sep 2006 03:00 GMT
> Depending on the source for electricity in your area, a BEV may or
> maynot put out more greenhouse gas emissions than a 55MPG HEV.  Mainly,
> if the primary source for electricity in your area is coal (much of the
> northeast), your HEV is cleaner than a BEV running on coal-powered
> electricity.

Yeah, you are probably right now that I think of it.  Still it's not a
huge difference -- and 100% coal-generated grid power is really the
worst case scenario.  Even then both cars would be considerably cleaner
than your average conventional gasoline-powered car.

Greenhouse gas emissions are not the only factor to look at.  Despite
its efficiency, the hybrid still requires trips to the filling station,
still requires a fuel that is entering global depletion and is largely
imported from foreign lands of doubtful friendliness.  Peak Oil and
energy independence are my concerns, moreso than global warming.

Plus, the Tesla Roadster looks like the most fun car to drive that I
can imagine.  And I have a pretty good imagination.

Signature

Tony Belding, Hamilton Texas

 
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