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Car Forum / Toyota / Prius / September 2006

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Stupid tire store conversation about air pressure

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Mike Rosenberg - 02 Sep 2006 21:23 GMT
Everyone in the Prius community who reads this newsgroup or any of the
mailing lists and web forums knows about increasing your tire pressure
to increase mileage.  Hell, I'd heard about and been doing that for
years on my previous cars, too, just not to as high a degree as now.

Yesterday I had a flat tire, took it to a tire store to be repaired
(ended up needing it replaced, but that's another story).  The manager I
dealt with asked if I was aware that my other tires were at 40+ psi, and
I told him yes, that it was intentional for better mileage.  He
understood and even explained how it works to another customer who was
standing nearby, after telling the mechanic to reinflate the tires as I
had them.

Well, the mechanic came out front a minute later and "explained" that
the tires are only rated for 35 psi and that overinflating them would
cause the sidewalls to give out.  I said okay and drove off, then of
course inflated them to 42 front/40 rear on my own as I'm accustomed to
doing anyway since the Toyota dealership never gets it right.  It just
gets me that this guy would say something like this when, right on the
tires, in raised lettering, it says the maximum pressure is 44 psi.

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mark_digital© - 03 Sep 2006 11:04 GMT
> Everyone in the Prius community who reads this newsgroup or any of the
> mailing lists and web forums knows about increasing your tire pressure
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> gets me that this guy would say something like this when, right on the
> tires, in raised lettering, it says the maximum pressure is 44 psi.

I don't understand why you would want to sacrifice comfort and stability by
increasing the tire pressure beyond the recommended amount for the car
itself. And as for the tires being rated for 35 psi I'm sure he really meant
the car not the tires.
When you over inflate the tires ground clearance increases too so it's
questionable whether you gain mpg. Air resistance might offset the less
rolling resistance. Ultimately all you may have gained is a rough hard ride
and premature weakening of the front end.
mark_
Michelle Steiner - 03 Sep 2006 14:28 GMT
> I don't understand why you would want to sacrifice comfort and
> stability by increasing the tire pressure beyond the recommended
> amount for the car itself.

Because it doesn't sacrifice comfort or stability.  Experience shows
this.

> When you over inflate the tires ground clearance increases too so
> it's questionable whether you gain mpg.

It may be questionable--everything is questionable--but it does gain
mpg.  Experience shows this.

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Mike Rosenberg - 03 Sep 2006 14:34 GMT
> I don't understand why you would want to sacrifice comfort and stability
> by increasing the tire pressure beyond the recommended amount for the car
> itself.

If I didn't feel the ride was comfortable, and especially if the car was
less stable, I wouldn't keep the tires at 42/40, but my ride is
perfectly comfortable and stable that way.

> And as for the tires being rated for 35 psi I'm sure he really meant
> the car not the tires.

Oh no, he absolutely meant the tires when he talked about their
sidewalls not be able to handle anything above 35 psi.

> When you over inflate the tires ground clearance increases too so it's
> questionable whether you gain mpg.  Air resistance might offset the less
> rolling resistance.

This isn't something I've just made up, and it's not just common
knowledge in the Prius newsgroups, mailing lists and forums, it's
something I've read about for years.  Increasing tire pressure up to
near the maximum rating increases fuel efficiency.

> Ultimately all you may have gained is a rough hard ride...

I don't have a rough hard ride.

> and premature weakening of the front end.

Never had any problems in my previous cars.

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Kubalister - 03 Sep 2006 15:17 GMT
> I don't understand why you would want to sacrifice comfort and stability
> by increasing the tire pressure beyond the recommended amount for the
> car itself. And as for the tires being rated for 35 psi I'm sure he
> really meant the car not the tires.

What have you been smoking????
Cars themselves do not have a maximum tire pressure, they only have a
maximum recommended wheel/tire dimension. The pressure limit is set by
the tire manufacturer to keep it within the required dimensions and
physical stress limits of the material used.
For your interest the Prius is shipped everywhere else in the world
outside of the U.S. with Michellin Energy tires which have a maximum
pressure of 51 psi which many drivers use (and the ride is NOT
noticeably rough at that pressure).

> When you over inflate the tires ground clearance increases too so it's
> questionable whether you gain mpg. Air resistance might offset the less

With that statement you obviously DON'T have any experience in inflating
the tires to higher levels on the Prius. If you did you would KNOW that
it DOES improve mileage performance.

> rolling resistance. Ultimately all you may have gained is a rough hard
> ride and premature weakening of the front end.
> mark_
OscartheGrouch - 04 Sep 2006 02:33 GMT
>> I don't understand why you would want to sacrifice comfort and stability
>> by increasing the tire pressure beyond the recommended amount for the car
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>> ride and premature weakening of the front end.
>> mark_

I *think* he was making a joke.
Mike Rosenberg - 04 Sep 2006 02:54 GMT
> I *think* he was making a joke.

I didn't get that feeling at all and still don't.  What gives you that
impression?

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OscartheGrouch - 05 Sep 2006 17:48 GMT
>> I *think* he was making a joke.
>
> I didn't get that feeling at all and still don't.  What gives you that
> impression?

Because his statements were kinda out there. Let's let him tell us if he was
or was not. In the meantime don't chew my a.s jerk. I'm just making an
observation.
Mike Rosenberg - 05 Sep 2006 20:58 GMT
> In the meantime don't chew my a.s jerk. I'm just making an
> observation.

Chew your a.s?  I was just asking a question.

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Michelle Steiner - 05 Sep 2006 21:02 GMT
> > In the meantime don't chew my a.s jerk. I'm just making an
> > observation.
>
> Chew your a.s?  I was just asking a question.

What do you expect?  He's a grouch.

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Mike Rosenberg - 05 Sep 2006 21:11 GMT
> What do you expect?  He's a grouch.

That's true, he says so in black and white.  Maybe he'd be happier with
a cookie from his buddy?

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Mike Rosenberg - 05 Sep 2006 21:19 GMT
> Chew your a.s?  I was just asking a question.

I should add that you clearly have never seen me chew someone's a.s in a
Usenet post, because when I really do, it's rather obvious to everyone.

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mrv@kluge.net - 03 Sep 2006 18:15 GMT
I'll just note that the inflation over the Toyota recommended pressures
35psi front, 33psi rear, started back with the Classic Prius.  Many
owners noted premature tire wear, particularly on the edges (which is
usually an indication of running the tires at too low a pressure).
(But a few stuck to the Toyota recommendations and didn't notice any
problems.)  Many owners then tried increasing their tire pressures up
to the max. cold pressure on the OEM tires (Bridgestone Potenza RE92
XL) of 50psi, and then backed down to where the ride felt comfortable
for them, which was usually in the 40psi range (add 2psi in front).  A
nice side benefit of longer tire life was slightly better fuel economy.
(These OEMs would typically wear out by 30,000 miles.)

When the NHW20 Prius came out, people just followed the recommendations
that were there for the Classic.  US OEM tires (Goodyear Integrity)
have a max. cold pressure of 44psi.  Again, a few have reported uneven
edge wear...

I have yet to see a report from a Prius owner reporting uneven center
tread wear, indicating that the tires are overinflated.
Bill - 03 Sep 2006 18:55 GMT
> I have yet to see a report from a Prius owner reporting uneven center
> tread wear, indicating that the tires are overinflated.

Mine have been at 42/40 for the past 10K.  Tires were rotated at each 5K
service interval.  According to my 15K service report tread wear is uniform
across the surface.
OscartheGrouch - 06 Sep 2006 00:17 GMT
>> I have yet to see a report from a Prius owner reporting uneven center
>> tread wear, indicating that the tires are overinflated.
>>
> Mine have been at 42/40 for the past 10K.  Tires were rotated at each 5K
> service interval.  According to my 15K service report tread wear is
> uniform across the surface.

Ok Mark, get in here....you got some splainin' to do. How can a car be rated
to have tires that are inflated to some certain pressure? And if they are,
do you really think the car itself will be raised some amout that will raise
air resistance enough to offset mileage? I didn't even conceive that you may
be serious, so said you "may" be making some kind of joke. You had to be
joking, right? Maybe Mike's right, maybe you were serious? Sorry Mike, I
really thought his post was for humor and that that was obvious because it
was so far fetched, so I got defensive when I made what I thought was an
ovious observation, that he was kidding. Looking back, he gives no
indication however that he was though. I'm gonna go back and hide in my
garbage can for a while.
Bill - 06 Sep 2006 00:54 GMT
> Ok Mark, get in here....you got some splainin' to do. How can a car be
> rated to have tires that are inflated to some certain pressure? And if
> they are, do you really think the car itself will be raised some amout
> that will raise air resistance enough to offset mileage?

I'm going to get my pressure gauge and my feeler gauge and check this out.
I'm thinking the car will be raised less than .001 inches.
Mike Rosenberg - 06 Sep 2006 22:10 GMT
> Sorry Mike, I
> really thought his post was for humor and that that was obvious because it
> was so far fetched, so I got defensive when I made what I thought was an
> ovious observation, that he was kidding.

Don't worry about it, I could tell something else was up.

What got me about about his post was that I've seen him posting here
many times before, so I thought that surely he'd seen the tire pressure
discussion numerous times before, yet he sounded like it was brand new
to him, but the thing that _really_ got me was when he told me he was
sure about what the guy at the tire store really meant.

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Bill - 06 Sep 2006 22:35 GMT
I got a kick out of your musings.
Mike Rosenberg - 06 Sep 2006 22:39 GMT
> I got a kick out of your musings.

Thanks!

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Bob Wilson - 06 Sep 2006 13:37 GMT
> I said okay and drove off, then of
> course inflated them to 42 front/40 rear on my own as I'm accustomed to
> doing anyway since the Toyota dealership never gets it right.

I found a low rolling resistance tires in the Toyota parts department
for $45 and decided to let the shop mount the tires. I have 40 psi
pressure sensor caps and also asked to have them inflated to 42/40.

When I picked up the car, all of the pressure caps were green and though
they'd ignored the balancing paint marks, there was no obvious balance
problem. Then Sunday, I checked the tires and discovered they'd inflated
the tires to just 37 psi, the minimum that shows green on the pressure
sensor caps!

Yes, I'm going to buy 50 psi pressure caps now.

Since my tires are rated at a maximum 51 psi, I'm running 50/48 and they
are fantastic. They are quieter than the "Mastercrafts" with worn edges
(I'd bought a used car that had 32 psi in the tires.) It handles great
and the ride is perfect . . . precise and efficient.

Bob Wilson
 
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