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Car Forum / Toyota / Prius / March 2007Prius Hybrid
I am thinking of buying a Toyota Prius Hybrid, but I am not sure how it all works. I'm not sure how reliable the whole hybrid system may be, or of any maintenance issues with them. Any comments from current owners would be appreciated. >I am thinking of buying a Toyota Prius Hybrid, but I am not sure how it all > works. I'm not sure how reliable the whole hybrid system may be, or of any > maintenance issues with them. Any comments from current owners would be > appreciated. My 2005 works great after 20K miles. I drive 55 and get the stated EPA mileage. Haven't had any maintenance issues aside from a couple of recalls. Are they any cars on the road that haven't been recalled for one thing or another? >I am thinking of buying a Toyota Prius Hybrid, but I am not sure how it all >works. I'm not sure how reliable the whole hybrid system may be, or of any >maintenance issues with them. Any comments from current owners would be >appreciated. It has a very good reputation for reliability. You get oil changes every 5000 miles, not 3000, because there is less stress on the gasoline engine. You should also rotate the tires every 5000 miles (this is in the manual), and use the recommended pressures or higher. The front wheels need higher pressure, most shops don't do this right. I have run into no maintenance issues at all. You don't have to know how it works; just drive it. You don't decide when to turn the engine on or off; it does. If you pay attention to the displays, it will educate you to change your driving habits so you get even better gas mileage. I usually get 54 or 56 MPG, but sometimes have gotten 63 MPG. Consult "Consumer Reports" online or in a library. The current version of the Prius has been very reliable. For tonnes of user reports see http://priusonline.com http://priuschat.com If you really want to know how the Prius works, go to Graham Davie's absolutely fabulous Prius web site: http://www.jantzen.nl/prius/Techniek/ Dick >I am thinking of buying a Toyota Prius Hybrid, but I am not sure how it all > works. I'm not sure how reliable the whole hybrid system may be, or of any > maintenance issues with them. Any comments from current owners would be > appreciated. > If you really want to know how the Prius works, go to Graham Davie's > absolutely fabulous Prius web site: > http://www.jantzen.nl/prius/Techniek/ Looks like someone has copied Graham Davies' site... The original lives here: http://www.ecrostech.com/prius/original/PriusFrames.htm (and check the "Understanding the Prius" area) >I am thinking of buying a Toyota Prius Hybrid, but I am not sure how it all > works. I'm not sure how reliable the whole hybrid system may be, or of any > maintenance issues with them. Any comments from current owners would be > appreciated. You drop the "Hybrid". The Prius only comes in one form. mark_ >I am thinking of buying a Toyota Prius Hybrid, but I am not sure how it all >works. I'm not sure how reliable the whole hybrid system may be, or of any >maintenance issues with them. Any comments from current owners would be >appreciated. I just bought a 2007 Prius and had the same concerns. Honestly, I don't know what to expect. The only way I could get comfortable with the purchase was spend another grand on an extended warranty. One option is with http://priuschat.com/forums.html Top menu has Prius accessories with sub-category Discounted Extended Warranty. It's only been a couple days since the money was authorized and I'm still waiting for the paperwork. Seem's legitimate. Added some stuff, side moldings, clear mats to go over the carpeted mats, rear mats, cargo net, mudguards, I'm the worst on directions, the NAV system had really relaxed my driving somewhat. I'm happy with the purchase, fun to drive and pretty sure you will enjoy. > >I am thinking of buying a Toyota Prius Hybrid, but I am not sure how it all > >works. I'm not sure how reliable the whole hybrid system may be, or of any [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Warranty. It's only been a couple days since the money was authorized > and I'm still waiting for the paperwork. Seem's legitimate. Extended warranties are insurance, and like all insurance policies they are priced to make a profit for the seller, not the buyer. If one can afford to keep cash on hand to cover repairs it's less expensive to self-insure than to buy an extended warranty. As the third year of the model a 2007 Prius should be the most reliable of what was already a very reliable line. Drive with confidence. itimate. >Extended warranties are insurance, and like all insurance policies they >are priced to make a profit for the seller, not the buyer. If one can [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >As the third year of the model a 2007 Prius should be the most reliable >of what was already a very reliable line. Drive with confidence. I like the positive vibes, but I ain't very lucky. Thought the same about my 2 yr old Mitsubishi wide screen TV (65713). They just ordered a new DM module, part and labor $1100. Warranty was only good for a year and we didn't get the extended, really sucks. The Prius is a computer on wheels, With my luck, $990 probably a good investment. > "jstox" wrote: > I like the positive vibes, but I ain't very lucky. Thought the same > about my 2 yr old Mitsubishi wide screen TV (65713). They just > ordered a new DM module, part and labor $1100. Warranty was > only good for a year and we didn't get the extended, really sucks. Great! My Mitsubishi big-screen DLP is also crapping out, but it is only 3 months old. Lamp keeps acting up (least it's on their tab for $350 ea.). First blew in 2 weeks. Then maybe a month out. Now it's conked out again three months later. Sitting around watching the little blinking yellow LED really is annoying while waiting for the bulb changer man to show up in about a week. Calling their 1-800 service help is in India (maybe). They just read back the troublshooting info in the owner's manual and then tell you to call service - and wait. >:o( B~ >> "jstox" wrote: >> I like the positive vibes, but I ain't very lucky. Thought the same [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > B~ My Sony Wega's bulb went out after 7000 hours, and during replacement the tech called to find out if a certain electronic part he happened to have on hand could replace the one in the TV, since he was at my home already. It was an updated module and it was recommended that he do so. The bulb ($200) plus part and labor at no cost. I personally didn't rack up all those hours. Mine was a demo that cost me less than what the dealer bought it for. I had it for such a short time the bulb would have been replaced anyway without a service agreement. But I think the service agreement helped sway them to install the updated module. I hope for your sake they can find out why your TV is blowing out bulbs. Maybe someone back at the shop is handling them bare handed. Who knows.... > "mark_digital©" wrote: > My Sony Wega's bulb went out after 7000 hours, and during replacement the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I hope for your sake they can find out why your TV is blowing out bulbs. > Maybe someone back at the shop is handling them bare handed. Who knows.... The repairman came and went. TV still doesn't work as the guy carries no bulb for it with him. He says "It's too new and there's too many bulbs to stock." Ugh! So "We'll have to order one from Mitsubishi." He said they should last between 9 months and maybe 2 years. "Wouldn't hurt to have a spare on hand, btw." Least the little 19" widescreen LCD still is workin.' B~ >> "mark_digital©" wrote: >> My Sony Wega's bulb went out after 7000 hours, and during replacement the [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > >B~ Sheesh, this just get's worse. Repairman called to inform the DM module is backordered and Mitsubishi's shipdate is Novemeber 15th. I'm livid. Use to be a time when Japanese quality meant something. This is definitely my last Mitsubishi product, totally unacceptable. My stellar luck continues, What is that crap, $200 bulb, and needs replaced evry 9m-2y. Holy cow. Yep, at least for me, wise decision getting the extended warranty on the Prius. On my 3rd tank, avg 46.4. This is a cool car, fun to drive. > "jstox" wrote: > Sheesh, this just get's worse. Repairman called to inform the DM > module is backordered and Mitsubishi's shipdate is Novemeber 15th. > I'm livid. Use to be a time when Japanese quality meant something. > This is definitely my last Mitsubishi product, totally unacceptable. > My stellar luck continues. That blows big time! I'm afraid this is gonna be a real drag. The TV man said "It could be the ballast," but until he gets a lamp for it he won't know. So then I'll wait another two weeks for that frickin' part. You'd think if they sold the damn TV they'd at least keep a spare lamp in stock, but nooo.... > What is that crap, $200 bulb, and needs replaced evry 9m-2y. > Holy cow. It's only a mere $300 (!!!) so he said when I asked about keeping a spare around in case it pukes another lamp. Probably will quit making them in a few years. The guy said the LG TV's all use a different lamp, fwiw. He said some of them go up as high as $600 per lamp! Now I'm sorry I pitched the JVC 27 incher when this big black screened (i.e. no light) Hi-Rez monster with a single flashing yellow LED on the front showed up (I put some tape over it). > Yep, at least for me, wise decision getting the extended warranty > on the Prius. I'm still debating that one. I got the fork-it-over letter regarding the Prius extended warranty lying on my counter now. Dunno. B~ > I'm afraid this is gonna be a real drag. The TV man said "It could be the > ballast," but until he gets a lamp for it he won't know. So then I'll [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > B~ I was getting discouraged with my TV set when it would lose it's channel lineup and all the manual channel labeling. The least amount of pressure from one's fingers over the remote control's buttons would turn the set off and then on rapidly, which of course you know isn't good for the electronics. Oddly enough, it was weak batteries causing the problem. Speaking of masking off with tape, I've got a Sony cordless answering machine with an irritating blinking red led; not for any messages, but to let me know it's a new caller ID. Big deal. I put a small swatch of duct tape over it to keep me from thinking I have a new message. mark_ > itimate. >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > The Prius is a computer on wheels, With my luck, $990 probably a > good investment. problem is the hybrid system has an 8yr, 100k mi warranty - and the hybrid battery system is by far the most likely culprit on the car - and costs many thousands to replace. bob > problem is the hybrid system has an 8yr, 100k mi warranty - and the hybrid > battery system is by far the most likely culprit on the car - and costs > many thousands to replace. > > bob Odd you should say that. I only know of a handful of hybrid battery replacements. They are proving themselves to be exceptionally reliable. Google "honda transmission fail" (no quotes) and you will see 610,000 results - how the transmission fails, what to do about it... then google "prius battery fail" and you will see 115,000 results - discussions about what happens if the battery fails, wondering if the battery will fail.... There have always been more good used bateries for sale from wrecked Prius cars than there has been a demand for them. The going rate is $500 to $1000 used, depending on how patient the buyer is. Since a bad one is worth $200 from Toyota, that isn't too shabby. Mike That is good to hear. The next question that pops into my mind is: "OK, what is the labor charge for replacing my battery?" Thanks! - Greg Now You Can Have $50 a Day Income in 30 days or Less With Your Own Online Business: http://1stbe.com/0-50 >> problem is the hybrid system has an 8yr, 100k mi warranty - and the >> hybrid battery system is by far the most likely culprit on the car - and [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > $1000 used, depending on how patient the buyer is. Since a bad one is > worth $200 from Toyota, that isn't too shabby. > That is good to hear. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Thanks! - > Greg I believe it is around 4 hrs, mostly wrapped up in the conditioning and testing process afterward. The physical replacement is a moderate DIY job, as the 110 lb battery assembly is behind the rear seat (at least in the pre-2004s). I haven't heard of any DIYers who had to take the job on, though, and I might hesitate to be the first... or maybe not... if I drew a short straw. I have a thorough electrical background but I understand NiMH cells can be tricky. Mike >> problem is the hybrid system has an 8yr, 100k mi warranty - and the >> hybrid battery system is by far the most likely culprit on the car - and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Odd you should say that. I only know of a handful of hybrid battery > replacements. They are proving themselves to be exceptionally reliable. they are EXCEPTIONALLY reliable by battery standards - the batteries will probably last around 10 yrs..the problem is that cars last more than 10 yrs (decent ones)..every prius in its lifetime should se 1-2 battery set replacements - and at the current costs for new ones, that's really tough to swallow. > Google "honda transmission fail" (no quotes) and you will see 610,000 > results - how the transmission fails, what to do about it... then google > "prius battery fail" and you will see 115,000 results - discussions about > what happens if the battery fails, wondering if the battery will fail.... recall that the prius hybrid hasn't been around long enough for the batts to start failing in large #s yet..give it another 3-4 yrs for the data to come in. > There have always been more good used bateries for sale from wrecked Prius > cars than there has been a demand for them. The going rate is $500 to > $1000 used, depending on how patient the buyer is. Since a bad one is > worth $200 from Toyota, that isn't too shabby. yes, today, that is true..but in 3-4 yrs, when the batts begin failing in large #s, that will change..my hope is for a nice aftermarket developer to get in the game with those batteries. bob > > Odd you should say that. I only know of a handful of hybrid battery > > replacements. They are proving themselves to be exceptionally reliable. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > replacements - and at the current costs for new ones, that's really tough to > swallow. Fortunately, there are plenty of salvage batteries available for very good prices. Furthermore, battery technologies are improving and prices are going down. Also, there may be a fairly simple way to refubish battery packs by replacing electrolyte in marginal cells and rebuilding replacements. Think of it as the battery equivalent of rebuilding an engine. The technology is not that hard. However, if you are risk adverse, just sell the car before the battery fails. Do let me know how much your asking. Bob Wilson >> > Odd you should say that. I only know of a handful of hybrid battery >> > replacements. They are proving themselves to be exceptionally reliable. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > However, if you are risk adverse, just sell the car before the battery > fails. Do let me know how much your asking. the car's brand new..i plan to sell it at 80k miles, 20k before the batt warranty..i'm asking sticker. :-) hehe bob > > Fortunately, there are plenty of salvage batteries available for very > > good prices. Furthermore, battery technologies are improving and prices [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > the car's brand new..i plan to sell it at 80k miles, 20k before the batt > warranty..i'm asking sticker. :-) hehe Depending upon the price of gas, you may get it. Bob Wilson >>> problem is the hybrid system has an 8yr, 100k mi warranty - and the >>> hybrid battery system is by far the most likely culprit on the car - and [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > bob How do you come up with the estimate? Toyota has stated they chose the NiMH over LiIon because the NiMH has no specific life limitations. Like the Edison cell, they could theoretically last centuries. Theoretically, of course, because they are in a vehicle that tends to bump along the road. But so far (and the Prius has been sold for 10 years in Japan) the rise in battery failures that would signal trouble has not yet been seen. Mike Mike >>>> problem is the hybrid system has an 8yr, 100k mi warranty - and the >>>> hybrid battery system is by far the most likely culprit on the car - [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > road. But so far (and the Prius has been sold for 10 years in Japan) the > rise in battery failures that would signal trouble has not yet been seen. hopefully you're right. but they warrant the battery for 8 yrs, makes me believe it has a 10-12yr life. bob > hopefully you're right. but they warrant the battery for 8 yrs, makes > me believe it has a 10-12yr life. The basic warranty on the car is 3 years, so does that mean that the car has only a five to six year life? The engine and drive train are warranted for five years; does that mean that their lives are only seven to ten years?  SignatureSupport the troops: Bring them home ASAP. >> hopefully you're right. but they warrant the battery for 8 yrs, makes >> me believe it has a 10-12yr life. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > warranted for five years; does that mean that their lives are only seven > to ten years? no. but batteries have fairly predictable lives depending on cycles and ambient temp.....far different from knowing, when, for ex, a transaxle will crap out.. bob > >> hopefully you're right. but they warrant the battery for 8 yrs, > >> makes me believe it has a 10-12yr life. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > and ambient temp.....far different from knowing, when, for ex, a > transaxle will crap out.. And that has absolutely *nothing* to do with the length of the warranty, despite your surmise that they are related to such a tight degree. SignatureSupport the troops: Bring them home ASAP. > hopefully you're right. but they warrant the battery for 8 yrs, makes > me believe it has a 10-12yr life. Oh, I almost forgot; in some states, the battery warranty is for 10 years. Does that mean that it has a 13 to 15 year life? SignatureSupport the troops: Bring them home ASAP. > Oh, I almost forgot; in some states, the battery warranty is for 10 > years. Does that mean that it has a 13 to 15 year life? Isn't it amazing that the exact same battery can have different life spans based on local legislation? ;-) Signature<http://designsbymike.biz/macconsultshop.shtml> Mac-themed T-shirts <http://designsbymike.biz/musings.shtml> Mostly muckraking T-shirts <http://designsbymike.biz/prius.shtml> Prius shirts & bumper stickers <http://cafepress.com/comedancing> Ballroom dance-themed shirts & gift > > Oh, I almost forgot; in some states, the battery warranty is for 10 > > years. Does that mean that it has a 13 to 15 year life? > > Isn't it amazing that the exact same battery can have different life > spans based on local legislation? ;-) Almost makes you think they're Republican. SignatureSupport the troops: Bring them home ASAP. >> hopefully you're right. but they warrant the battery for 8 yrs, makes >> me believe it has a 10-12yr life. > > Oh, I almost forgot; in some states, the battery warranty is for 10 > years. Does that mean that it has a 13 to 15 year life? In those states Toyota uses the special batteries from its secret reserve! <8^} Mike >> hopefully you're right. but they warrant the battery for 8 yrs, makes >> me believe it has a 10-12yr life. > > Oh, I almost forgot; in some states, the battery warranty is for 10 > years. Does that mean that it has a 13 to 15 year life? probably has about a 10-15 yr life, depending on how you drive and how hot a climate.. i'm suspecting you know nothing about battery technology michelle..best to keep quiet on this. bob >>> hopefully you're right. but they warrant the battery for 8 yrs, makes >>> me believe it has a 10-12yr life. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > bob However, she and many others here have a lot of group experience with the NiMH in the Prius application - empirical data trumps theory every time. Science, you know. Some more you should know about the application: in operation the battery is forced air cooled with air from the passenger compartment. The handful of failures - representing around 0.1% of the Prius sold - and the associated DTCs to date suggest mechanical failure of connections within individual cells, and have not taken on any pattern related to years or miles in service. 2001 models in the US regularly make it to the 200K mile mark on the original hybrid battery. (Michelle et al know all this.) The smart way to bet is that few Prius cars will face battery replacement during their useful life. That has been the experience so far and I don't see any reason that should change. Mike > However, she and many others here have a lot of group experience with > the NiMH in the Prius application - empirical data trumps theory > every time. What theory? He doesn't have a theory; he doesn't even have a hypothesis. He has mere speculation. SignatureSupport the troops: Bring them home ASAP. > >> hopefully you're right. but they warrant the battery for 8 yrs, > >> makes me believe it has a 10-12yr life. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > how hot a climate.. i'm suspecting you know nothing about battery > technology michelle..best to keep quiet on this. I'm suspecting that you're wrong. I'm also suspecting that you don't realize that the relationship between the length of a warranty and the expected product life is tenuous at best, if at all. best you keep quiet about this. SignatureSupport the troops: Bring them home ASAP. > As the third year of the model a 2007 Prius should be the most reliable > of what was already a very reliable line. Drive with confidence. I agree completely. The 2001 and early 2002s had a handful of design problems (mostly covered by extended item-specific warranties now), while the later 2002s and the 2003s were really solid. The 2004 redesign introduced a few more problems that were addressed in the '05s and '06s. The '07s and on to the next redesign should be paragons of reliability. There will probably be lemons, but Toyota does a great job of keeping those to a minimum. It's worth noting the 100K mile / 8 year hybrid system warranty for the benefit of those worrying about surprises in the hybrid system. Few people have had to take advantage of the hybrid system warranty. Mike > I am thinking of buying a Toyota Prius Hybrid, but I am not sure how it all > works. I'm not sure how reliable the whole hybrid system may be, or of any > maintenance issues with them. Any comments from current owners would be > appreciated. You don't need to know how the hybrid system works. Just drive it! Remember to put gasoline in, and follow the regularly scheduled maintenance guide ( http://smg.toyotapartsandservice.com/ ), and you'll be fine. Consumer Reports has continually placed the Prius in its top picks list for both a used car and the reliability lists. http://autos.msn.com/advice/CRArt.aspx?contentid=4023544 powertrain is warrantied in the US for 5 years/60,000 miles. the hybrid system is warrantied in the US for 8 years/100,000 miles (which includes the hybrid battery pack). If you live in a CA-emissions state, the AT-PZEV Prius' hybrid battery pack is further warrantied out to 10 years/150,000 miles. Warranties are NOT pro-rated, but full coverage. Remember that Toyota had the first production hybrid on the road - the Toyota Prius has been out in Japan since 1997 for the 1998 model year. It was first introduced internationally in 2000 for the 2001 model year. In 2003 (for the 2004 model year) the car underwent a redesign (compact sedan to the current midsize hatchback, a better hybrid system, etc.). Toyota has since put this newer hybrid system on the Harrier (Lexus RX400H), Kluger (Highlander Hybrid), Camry Hybrid, Lexus GS450H, Alphard Hybrid, and Estima Hybrids, with plans to put it into more models in future years. You'll get way more information asking Toyota Prius owners: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius/ http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Prius-2G/ http://www.priusonline.com/ http://www.priuschat.com/ and plenty of Prius information at: http://www.toyota.com/prius http://john1701a.com/ http://home.earthlink.net/~jkash1/ >I am thinking of buying a Toyota Prius Hybrid, but I am not sure how it all > works. I'm not sure how reliable the whole hybrid system may be, or of any > maintenance issues with them. Any comments from current owners would be > appreciated. the car is reliable with one flaw - it runs much of the time on batteries that have an 8yr, 100k mile warranty - after which replacement is around $7,000..so, if you can drive it for about 75k miles and sell it...........should be very reliable/economical. bob >>I am thinking of buying a Toyota Prius Hybrid, but I am not sure how it >>all [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > bob I bought one at 103K miles. I am too familiar with the Prius to be scared by the battery life. If it does fail, I expect to pay under $1000 for a used one. Worry about something that has a bad reputation - the Prius hybrid battery has a stellar reputation. Mike >>>I am thinking of buying a Toyota Prius Hybrid, but I am not sure how it >>>all [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > by the battery life. If it does fail, I expect to pay under $1000 for a > used one. i'm an electrical engineer who works with batteries for many yrs. the question isn't "if" it will fail, it WILL fail. batteries have predictable lives - like tires..but i'm not worried enough that it kept me from buying one. bob > i'm an electrical engineer who works with batteries for many yrs. the > question isn't "if" it will fail, it WILL fail. batteries have predictable > lives - like tires..but i'm not worried enough that it kept me from buying > one. > > bob Of course you are right that it will fail sometime, but there is not nearly enough data to say when. We can say with certainty the expected battery life is considerably greater than 10 years, the length of time the Prius has been sold in Japan. Since the failure rate on those is still not significant enough to provide useful data, that's all we have. The life will be predictable when we get the data, but not yet. I would be surprised if more than a handful last 50 years, but 20 (already common for industrial lead-acid batteries) wouldn't surprise me in the least. Mike >> i'm an electrical engineer who works with batteries for many yrs. the >> question isn't "if" it will fail, it WILL fail. batteries have [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > surprised if more than a handful last 50 years, but 20 (already common for > industrial lead-acid batteries) wouldn't surprise me in the least. industrial lead acid work in a/c environments and those are not maintenance free..sealed batteries give 20 yr warranties but rarely last more than 8-10...still, i hope you're right. bob |
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