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Car Forum / Toyota / Prius / January 2007Frustrated prius believer question
Hi everyone, Here's a bit of a question...I have an 05 Prius from Nov 05 and just moved. When I lived in my previous location, I was getting between 48-52mpg regularly...like clockwork. Since I moved, it's dropped to 39-42...quite a drop. I am taking similar roads as before (mostly highway) and my mileage will not improve...I tried different gas stations, new oil change (I use Mobil 1), checked the tire pressure. Nothing... I'm getting a bit frustrated, because nothing has changed except where I live and that can't be the only factor for the mileage change... I have 22,500 miles on the car, and was wondering if any others had similar experiences or solution suggestions? Thanks... Temperature different where you are now than where you were then? Winter gas (with 10% ethanol) vs. summer gas?  SignaturePeace, BobJ > Hi everyone, > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Thanks... Temperature...no, not colder by much, maybe 3-5 degrees max. When I got the car it was winter time and was getting 50mpg, so that's what's concerning me. I wish there was a reboot of the car, maybe it would reset anything that has adjusted itself. > Temperature different where you are now than where you were then? Winter > gas (with 10% ethanol) vs. summer gas? [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > > > Thanks... > Hi everyone, > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Thanks... It may seem a long shot, but there was at least one report of a similar economy drop after the car was serviced. It seems the parking brake was set too tight; operating the parking brake forcefully a dozen times or so cleared up the problem. Otherwise, is it possible the drop is from terrain near your new home, sucking down gas during the first mile or so of cold driving? Mike > Hi everyone, > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > I have 22,500 miles on the car, and was wondering if any others had > similar experiences or solution suggestions? Are your trips shorter now than at the old location ? Efficiency is poor for the first 10-15 minutes so if your trips are < 30 mins then this tends to drag down the average MPG quite considerably. Paul I think it is due to the locale and not the car. Where I live, I get around 42 mpg. If I venture to the San Francisco area it jumps to around 50 or better. I go back home and it drops. It's been consistant in its behavior so I no longer doubt the car, but the area has more impact. B~ I would guess a combination of temperature and local driving conditions. My economy dropped by 10 mpg between September and December. The only difference is average temperatures in the 30s instead of 70s. Also, the first five minutes or so of driving can have a huge impact if you do mostly fairly short trips. If you sit at lights a lot or go uphill in the first few minutes, your mileage will really suck and it takes a lot of driving under more favorable conditions to make it up. > I would guess a combination of temperature and local driving conditions. > My economy dropped by 10 mpg between September and December. The only [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > first few minutes, your mileage will really suck and it takes a lot of > driving under more favorable conditions to make it up. Should I be letting my car warm up on colder days to minimize any gas sucking from driving? > Should I be letting my car warm up on colder days to minimize any gas > sucking from driving? No, because it will suck even more gas while warming up. SignatureSupport the troops: Bring them home ASAP. > Should I be letting my car warm up on colder days to minimize any gas > sucking from driving? No! When not moving you get *zero* MPG. The first thing a Prius engine does is run continuously, to warm up itself and the catalytic convertor; it does this to minimize hydrocarbon emissions. You might as well be moving while it does this. The best way to warm up any car (including a Prius) is to drive it, gently for the first few minutes. When the cabin heater starts working then it's warmed up. > > Should I be letting my car warm up on colder days to minimize any gas > > sucking from driving? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > gently for the first few minutes. When the cabin heater starts working > then it's warmed up. Gotcha...I thought that too, but you never know. I still wonder if I need the car serviced though...when I first got the car, the engine would shut off much faster when I stopped, now sometimes it doesn't shut off at all, especially at stop signs. I used to slow down, and feel the engine turn off and I'd coast on batteries, then accel. on batt and continue to run on them for a while...now, it seems when I accel. from a stop sign the engine almost immediately starts, or at least more frequently than I ever recall. And I can tell you truthfully that I am making an effort to not push the accel. to much to "test the waters," but no difference. Thoughts? > > Should I be letting my car warm up on colder days to minimize any gas > > sucking from driving? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > gently for the first few minutes. When the cabin heater starts working > then it's warmed up. Gotcha...I thought that too, but you never know. I still wonder if I need the car serviced though...when I first got the car, the engine would shut off much faster when I stopped, now sometimes it doesn't shut off at all, especially at stop signs. I used to slow down, and feel the engine turn off and I'd coast on batteries, then accel. on batt and continue to run on them for a while...now, it seems when I accel. from a stop sign the engine almost immediately starts, or at least more frequently than I ever recall. And I can tell you truthfully that I am making an effort to not push the accel. to much to "test the waters," but no difference. Thoughts? > I still wonder if I need the car serviced though...when I first got the > car, the engine would shut off much faster when I stopped, now [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Thoughts? Is the weather 20 degrees colder now than when you first got the car? When did you last check the tire pressures? If all operating conditions are truly unchanged, then yeah, might as well have a dealer check it out. > > I still wonder if I need the car serviced though...when I first got the > > car, the engine would shut off much faster when I stopped, now [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Is the weather 20 degrees colder now than when you first got the car? > When did you last check the tire pressures? note that tire pressures will drop 1psi for each 10^F drop in outside temperature... so if it was a hot summer day when you last checked your tire pressures, and it is a chilly winter day now, your pressures are likely down. > If all operating conditions are truly unchanged, then yeah, might as > well have a dealer check it out. Well, assuming that the length of trip and type of terrain hasn't changed, and that the type of fuel hasn't changed (many areas are now using E10 or a winter blend, and some gas stations offer higher-octane fuel than others for the same advertised grade), there's always the question about the interior temperature settings and front windshield defroster use... Heater is run off of "waste" heat from the gasoline engine (and yes, the engine will run just to provide you with more heat). The front defroster uses the AC compressor to dehumidify the air blown at the windshield, and that AC use gets its power from somewhere (and doesn't light the AC light to tell you the AC is being used)... On a NHW11 Prius the AC is belt-run off of the gasoline engine, causing the engine to run more often. On a NHW20 Prius the AC is electrically-driven off of the hybrid battery, but then the engine may come on to recharge the battery... > > I would guess a combination of temperature and local driving conditions. > > My economy dropped by 10 mpg between September and December. The only [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Should I be letting my car warm up on colder days to minimize any gas > sucking from driving? Last winter, I modified my route to extend how long I drove at 25 mph until the blue 'coolant' light went out. This made a significant improvement in mileage: http://hiwaay.net/~bzwilson/prius/ This year, I learned about a thermistor hack for my NHW11, 03 Prius, and have been testing a manual version. So far, it looks to be pretty effective but I'm trying to get a microprocessor version working to capture some quality data: http://hiwaay.net/~bzwilson/prius/pri_temp.html Bob Wilson > > > I would guess a combination of temperature and local driving conditions. > > > My economy dropped by 10 mpg between September and December. The only [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Bob Wilson Wow Bob, those are some really detailed stats...nice work. I did the modification with my commute distance and added and extra 12 miles, and it does help slightly. I went from 38-39 mpg to 42 mpg. My climate change since moving is ~7-10 degrees colder than before, but if that makes such a big deal with respect to the overall mpg, I might look into the hacks you've mentioned, because my last car (Honda Civic) got 33mpg, and makes me doubt the Prius a bit. Just a bit. I also have 23000 miles on it in 13 months, and have done the following things: oil changes at ~6500 miles using Mobil 1 10W-30, tires have been rotated 3 times and that's pretty much it. I don't know if there is something from Toyota (or myself) that needs to be "maintained" at this mileage, but it's starting to look like it though... Thanks again for the stats... > Should I be letting my car warm up on colder days to minimize any gas > sucking from driving? Yep, you should. You see, if you don't, you'll be wastefully speeding up and slowing down as you approach pedestrians you didn't see until you were almost on top of them. (Assuming cold dark mornings) We all know the first twenty minutes are not fuel efficient. Let's say your ride to work last 20 minutes. If you let your car warm up 5 minutes that means the last 5 minutes are fuel efficient (5 plus 20=25 total operating time). So, the last five minutes makes up for the first 5 minutes. Theoretically, you could let your car warm up 20 minutes which would make your whole trip to work fuel efficient. Can't argue with that. But I'm sure somebody will. mark_ > Hi everyone, > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Thanks... Higher elevations tend to reduce mpg. Did you not read "Limited Participation" post replies? mark_digital? wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Higher elevations tend to reduce mpg. Did you not read "Limited > Participation" post replies? Higher elevations would be a factor except I live 5 minutes from the beach...even before I moved, I was very close to sea level. What is this "Limited Participation" you are talking about? mark_digital© wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Higher elevations tend to reduce mpg. Did you not read "Limited > Participation" post replies? Higher elevations would be a factor except I live 5 minutes from the beach...even before I moved, I was very close to sea level. What is this "Limited Participation" you are talking about? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Two doors down ;) you'll see a post from Greg. Subject line "Limited Participation" For awhile, mandatory alcohol mix was suspended because it couldn't be made fast enough. Maybe that's why you got such good mileage. Believe me, fuel mixture and altitude plays havoc on all vehicles not only the Prius. While I was vacationing in Colorado my fuel efficiency dropped drastically. A Toyota dealer there said everyone is affected but don't realize how bad because they don't venture too far from home. For them it's normal. He also said if I planned to stay I would start seeing better fuel effeciency in a few weeks. The last day heading home I traveled 500 miles from the Great Lakes to Massachusetts. Once I reached the lower elevation of NY I immediately felt a better response. There's also a possibility your batteries are taking longer to get to the warmer more efficient state simply because early sun isn't there. Days are going to get longer by what, two minutes each day? Before you know it, the ambient temp and sunlight will catch up to each other and you'll be back to 52 +. The thing to remember is everyone's mileage suffers in the cold climate. Don't compare someone else's summertime MPG. It's also probably a one time fluke and that's the tank they remember and talk about. > For awhile, mandatory alcohol mix was suspended because it couldn't be > made fast enough. Maybe that's why you got such good mileage. Believe me, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > traveled 500 miles from the Great Lakes to Massachusetts. Once I reached > the lower elevation of NY I immediately felt a better response. Maybe I'm lucky. Here at 7000 ft our two 2002s manage upper 40s to lower 50s around town until the winter gets here. Mike >> For awhile, mandatory alcohol mix was suspended because it couldn't be >> made fast enough. Maybe that's why you got such good mileage. Believe [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Mike I don't know where 'around here' is but like I said, if you're there long enough... The dealer said I would see upper 40's but not anything like I was getting back home. >>> For awhile, mandatory alcohol mix was suspended because it couldn't be >>> made fast enough. Maybe that's why you got such good mileage. Believe [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > The dealer said I would see upper 40's but not anything like I was getting > back home. Greetings from Flagstaff, Arizona! We make a lot of trips to the Phoenix area (about 1200 ft) and I agree the economy is a little better there - probably about 5 mpg - but Phoenix is mostly flat while our mountain town is pretty hilly. Come to think of it, freeway mileage is noticeably better at lower altitudes. Hmm.... Mike > >>> For awhile, mandatory alcohol mix was suspended because it couldn't be > >>> made fast enough. Maybe that's why you got such good mileage. Believe [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Mike Greetings from Rome, Italy: I also noticed an higher fuel comsumption during winter with my Sept. 2005 Prius, but no difference from Rome to Torino (about 450 miles). Are you sure about the quality of the fuel? Usually fuels sold in different areas, also if the same brand, may come from different petrol, may be that this is the problem: why not try to refuel from another brand? Greetings from Rome, Italy: I also noticed an higher fuel comsumption during winter with my Sept. 2005 Prius, but no difference from Rome to Torino (about 450 miles). Are you sure about the quality of the fuel? Usually fuels sold in different areas, also if the same brand, may come from different petrol, may be that this is the problem: why not try to refuel from another brand? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ That's another possibility. We may have a different formulation at high altitude to prevent vapor lock. There aren't that many carbureted cars running in the US, but there are enough that without controlling vapor pressure the streets would be blocked with dead vehicles. Mike >snip< > Greetings from Flagstaff, Arizona! We make a lot of trips to the Phoenix [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Mike Things like tail winds and following close behind another vehicle can have a positve effect. I say most of what we experience is out of our hands though. We may think the driving conditions in other locations are similiar but all it takes is an accumilation of a minute here and a minute there of a bad variable over and over; not enough to remember it but enough to effect mileage. This summer I reset the fuel efficiency gauge to zero and drove 30 miles west on the MA turnpike at 55 mph. Heading back east on the Pike I kept it at 62 mph. When I reached the toll booth the gauge read 66.9 mpg. I did the same thing recently, not changing my behavior at all and the gauge read 50.5 mpg. In either case, by the time I got home it read 52.5 mpg. Traffic congestion off the Pike worked for me and against me. My fuel efficiency (on paper) for 10,000 miles is 49.9 mpg for 2004 and 50.2 mpg this year. We didn't go to Colorado :( |
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