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Car Forum / Toyota / Prius / May 2007$50 a day gas bill?!
On the front page of the Trenton (NJ) Times this morning is a photo of a gas station attendant pumping gas into a bright yellow Hummer. Below is this caption: "GULPING GAS Ken D---- is dwarfed by a Hummer as he pumps gas at a Shell station in Yardville yesterday. The vehicle's owner says his gas bill is $50 a day. Motorists can expect little relief." Am I missing something here? There's definitely relief in sight...I can see it sitting in my driveway! - Doug > "DougSlug" wrote: > On the front page of the Trenton (NJ) Times this morning is a photo of a [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Am I missing something here? There's definitely relief in sight...I can > see it sitting in my driveway! Some people don't care how much it costs nor how much they consume. Example, John Travolta's 5 jets parked outside his Florida home. I dunno, but 500 gallons to fly one a day seems rather wasteful for one person. Hummer seems like a Prius in comparison. B~ > On the front page of the Trenton (NJ) Times this morning is a photo of a > gas station attendant pumping gas into a bright yellow Hummer. Below is [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > - Doug Gas pricing seems to confuse people. A lot of people will drive miles for gas that is ten cents per gallon less, even though that represents only 3% saving. There is one regular in the alt.autos.honda forum who dismisses the benefit of hybrids by saying his Civic can get 35 mpg on the highway. He doesn't need to mention that getting to and from the highway it is getting 20-25 mpg.... Anyway, either of our Prius (2002s) will easily get 45 mpg highway, the equivalent of paying a dollar per gallon less for gasoline. In town it will double his economy, equivalent to $1.50 off the price of a gallon. If he had a gas station that sold gas for $1.50 per gallon (difference in city driving), or even $2 per gallon (difference in highway driving), are we supposed to believe he would pass it up? Mike > > On the front page of the Trenton (NJ) Times this morning is a photo of a > > gas station attendant pumping gas into a bright yellow Hummer. Below is [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > (difference in city driving), or even $2 per gallon (difference in highway > driving), are we supposed to believe he would pass it up? My dad just bought a fully loaded Corolla a couple of days ago for thousands less than a base Prius costs. You have to factor in ALL the costs in this kind of discussion, not just the cost per gallon of gas because that does not equate to cost per mile driven. If my dad bought a Prius instead, he would spend much more money per mile because he's a senior citizen who just uses his car for shopping, getting to doctor's appointments, the gym, and other neighborhood places. Rarely does he go anywhere further than 20 miles from his home. I am new to this newsgroup. Every time I see a Prius on the road, I keep thinking how cool it would be for me to buy one when the time comes to replace the car I have now. The trouble is that for a decently loaded Prius, I would easily spend around $27,000 and the miles/gallon would not justify the additional price over a car like the Corolla or Civic considering that I average around 12,000 miles of driving per year. I believe Consumer Reports did a review of hybrid vehicles a year or two ago and they said the cut-off point to actually save money on gas by buying a Prius will occur when (if) gas gets to be around $4.50/gallon. At least in the area where I live, gas is a lot cheaper than that. In comparing the costs of a hybrid with a standard car, you have to factor in all the costs, not just gas. Examples ore the sale price, the number of miles you typically get out of your cars, maintenance cost, expected resale value, etc. Someone who drives a Civic might be spending less / mile then you do with your Prius when you factor in the costs of the two vehicles, total miles driven, etc. > I am new to this newsgroup... Hey, but you're a familiar name to me from the comp.sys.mac groups. Welcome!  Signature<http://designsbymike.biz/macconsultshop.shtml> Mac-themed T-shirts <http://designsbymike.biz/musings.shtml> Humorous/muckraking T-shirts <http://designsbymike.biz/prius.shtml> Prius shirts & bumper stickers <http://cafepress.com/comedancing> Ballroom dance-themed shirts & gift > My dad just bought a fully loaded Corolla a couple of days ago for > thousands less than a base Prius costs. You have to factor in ALL the [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > less / mile then you do with your Prius when you factor in the costs of > the two vehicles, total miles driven, etc. I understand your concern and your analysis is spot on. A lot of people can't even afford the purchase so the payoff period is moot. However, there are deals to be had. I bought a 2002 last year with 103K miles on it for about $12K. It drives like new and the experience of many is that there really isn't much more going wrong in the second 100K than in the first. I do my own maintenance, but even for those who hire it out the Prius is one of the cheapest modern cars going. My wife's 2002 (bought new) has been by far the most reliable car I've ever owned. My last new car needed more repair in the first week than hers has in five years. The Prius in its present incarnation is admittedly more upscale than many people can afford. It isn't just the hybrid system, but the entire package. I suspect the marketing design decisions were driven by at least two factors: to minimize the shock of the premium paid for the hybrid system, and to present the system as being fit for upscale cars. Considering the upgrade packages offered in the current generation compared to the limited list of options in the first generation, maybe the second factor is the big one. For that Hummer driver, who is probably getting around 15 mpg combined (depending on highway and city duties) and spending $50/day for gas, a Prius would save about $35/day or about $1000 per month. Unless he needs the carrying capacity - some people do - that $12K per year would add up in a hurry. Dropping the fuel bill from $18K per year to $6K per year... yeah, that's a viable alternative. Mike > I am new to this newsgroup. Every time I see a Prius on the road, I > keep thinking how cool it would be for me to buy one when the time [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the Corolla or Civic considering that I average around 12,000 miles > of driving per year. I didn't buy mine to save money on gasoline; I bought it so I would pollute less and conserve petroleum. I had a paid-off Acura, and the Prius was the only vehicle that tempted me to even think of trading. > I believe Consumer Reports did a review of hybrid vehicles a year or > two ago and they said the cut-off point to actually save money on gas > by buying a Prius will occur when (if) gas gets to be around > $4.50/gallon. At least in the area where I live, gas is a lot cheaper > than that. Consumer reports grossly underestimates the mileage that a Prius gets. It says it averages 44 MPG (which isn't shabby at all); I get between 48 and 51 MPG, with very rare drops to 46 or increases to 53. I know of people who routinely get 55 MPG or higher. > In comparing the costs of a hybrid with a standard car, you have to > factor in all the costs, not just gas. Examples ore the sale price, > the number of miles you typically get out of your cars, maintenance > cost, expected resale value, etc. Someone who drives a Civic might be > spending less / mile then you do with your Prius when you factor in > the costs of the two vehicles, total miles driven, etc The Prius holds its value much better than just about any other vehicle sold; resale value will be proportionally higher. Maintenance is also lower--for example, because most braking is regenerative, mechanical brakes last longer. Miles driven shouldn't matter, except for gasoline costs because both vehicles would be driven the same distance--unless high gas prices cause a reduction in driving for the less efficient car. SignatureSupport the troops: Bring them home ASAP. > Consumer reports grossly underestimates the mileage that a Prius gets. > It says it averages 44 MPG (which isn't shabby at all); I get between 48 > and 51 MPG, with very rare drops to 46 or increases to 53. I know of > people who routinely get 55 MPG or higher. I get between 30 (bunches of short trips in the winter) and 46 or 47 in my Prius. I'd say Consumer Reports is dead-on. Are they reporting actual survey results? > > Consumer reports grossly underestimates the mileage that a Prius > > gets. It says it averages 44 MPG (which isn't shabby at all); I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I get between 30 (bunches of short trips in the winter) and 46 or 47 > in my Prius. With no offense intended, maybe you need to refine your driving technique. Even with bunches of short trips, I still get in the 40s. > I'd say Consumer Reports is dead-on. Are they reporting actual > survey results? It's the result of their own tests on a new 04 Prius; I believe the test was reported in the Feb, March, or April 04 issue. SignatureSupport the troops: Bring them home ASAP. > > I get between 30 (bunches of short trips in the winter) and 46 or 47 > > in my Prius. > > With no offense intended, maybe you need to refine your driving > technique. Even with bunches of short trips, I still get in the 40s. Well, I drive it just like a normal car. The Prius *allows* different techniques to get higher mileage, but it doesn't demand such techniques and yet still manages to get much better mileage than other cars. > My dad just bought a fully loaded Corolla a couple of days ago for > thousands less than a base Prius costs. You have to factor in ALL the [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > less / mile then you do with your Prius when you factor in the costs of > the two vehicles, total miles driven, etc. Apparently, for most owners, it's not ALL about the money or "breaking even", or "cut-off points". And (I hope) most owners aren't really hoping for gas to reach the magical $4.50/gal level just to be able to say "I'm really saving now, suckers!". Otherwise, wouldn't the Kia Rio (or the current cheapo champ - the next Yugo) be on top of the list? > Apparently, for most owners, it's not ALL about the money or "breaking > even", or "cut-off points". And (I hope) most owners aren't really hoping > for gas to reach the magical $4.50/gal level just to be able to say "I'm > really > saving now, suckers!". Right on. Every now and then someone at work will say, "I read an article that says the extra cost of the Prius doesn't make up for what you save on gas...yatada, yatada, yatada..." I tell them it depends entirely on what assumptions you make in the analysis...if you do it right, you can make a Hummer look like a smart choice. Cost is quite often "not the only factor" for regular cars, too...why do people buy a BMW when a Camry or Accord would serve the same purpose for less money? The reasons can't be based on price or reliability; otherwise the Camry/Accord would always win. Performance, features and "what the car says about you" all play a major role in that decision just as it does when someone chooses a Prius over a Corolla (or whatever). For me, it had mostly to do with encouraging a car manufacturer to keep doing what it's doing to try to make a difference. Being really smart about design choices and engineering trade-offs deserves a reward (the car's not too shabby, either). Lazy American automakers don't deserve our money for cranking out the same crap every year, making sales based on brainless patriotism rather than smart, forward-thinking engineering. I want to think that they could learn from observing what Toyota is doing (and has succeeded at), but it's not clear they can (or want to). - Doug >> Apparently, for most owners, it's not ALL about the money or "breaking >> even", or "cut-off points". And (I hope) most owners aren't really hoping [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > - Doug Well said! - Piper Be yourself. Everyone else is taken. >> > On the front page of the Trenton (NJ) Times this morning is a photo of a >> > gas station attendant pumping gas into a bright yellow Hummer. Below is [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] >less / mile then you do with your Prius when you factor in the costs of >the two vehicles, total miles driven, etc. Hi Shawn, We paid $21-something for our 2007, fully loaded Prius last September. No more than we would have paid for any new car and certainly a lot less than some we could have. We also got in under the $3200 tax credit the fed gov was offering. Quite frankly, I love the 3 minutes it takes to full up the 11 gallon tank and how seldom we have to do that. All of our driving is on country roads, very little city and we are getting an average of 48 mph. We love it and would do it again. Not to mention our dealer has free oil changes for life. You have to shop around to find any deal so don't discount the Prius. - Piper Be yourself. Everyone else is taken. |
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