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Car Forum / Toyota / Prius / March 2008Dead Battery
After a week of sitting in the garage, we got into our 2006 Prius and found there was no power--everything was dark and dead. After finding and uncovering the 12 volt battery, I checked the voltage and found it to be 2.5 volts -- definitely discharged. A jumper from another car got the Prius going; but I'm curious. Has anyone else had this experience? The car was turned off normally. No lights were left on and we we just do the usual city/country driving . The propulsion battery was fine and showed a normal charge as soon as the car started. TKM In article <I4nwj.253754$MJ6.210928@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, > After a week of sitting in the garage, we got into our 2006 Prius and > found there was no power--everything was dark and dead. After [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > driving . The propulsion battery was fine and showed a normal charge > as soon as the car started. I had it happen once, when the car was about a year old or so. I don't know why it happened, either.  SignatureSupport the troops: Bring them home ASAP. In article <I4nwj.253754$MJ6.210928@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, > After a week of sitting in the garage, we got into our 2006 Prius and found > there was no power--everything was dark and dead. After finding and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > A jumper from another car got the Prius going; but I'm curious. Has anyone > else had this experience? Just about everyone who didn't bother to read the owner's manual. Your car has the Smart Key System (fortunately, my base model doesn't). It runs all the time, using up battery power. If you're going to let your car sit, the documentation specifies that you turn the SKS off. >In article ><I4nwj.253754$MJ6.210928@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >It runs all the time, using up battery power. If you're going to let >your car sit, the documentation specifies that you turn the SKS off. Shame McGoofus can't turn off his Dumb Key Self... In article <I4nwj.253754$MJ6.210928@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, > After a week of sitting in the garage, we got into our 2006 Prius and found > there was no power--everything was dark and dead. After finding and [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > TKM Keep in mind that some systems such as the Smart Key system require power even when the car sits unused. This is why the owners manual recommends turning off the battery when you know you won't be using the car for a week or more. The switch is under the steering wheel near your left knee. >In article ><I4nwj.253754$MJ6.210928@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >car for a week or more. The switch is under the steering wheel near your >left knee. The above is true, but our 2004 has been left for a week without having a dead battery. However, there were two other times the battery really had been depleted, it turned out someone had been sitting in the car listening to the radio and then "thought" they turned it off. Either it was left in the accessory mode or in the "on" mode (but not started). We now double check that the car is really off if we have done something unusual like use the accessory mode in a parking lot. ...Pat >>In article >><I4nwj.253754$MJ6.210928@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >really off if we have done something unusual like use the accessory >mode in a parking lot. ...Pat I think it depends on the state of charge of the 12V battery to start with. I was hospitalized for 5 weeks (and unable to drive for another week) and had my family turn off the SmartKey system (thank Ghod one daughter is a computer nerd and able to figure out what I was asking for), and the family drove the car once in a while, so it didn't lose the 12V charge. It was a couple of more weeks of driving before I turned the SmartKey back on; during that time, I took the car in for a state inspection; it was interesting to watch the mechanic get in the car, and then try to figure out just why the damn car wouldn't just turn on when he pressed the button. I have a 15V solar cell and added contacts that enable simple connection to the battery lines. Works fine... > Keep in mind that some systems such as the Smart Key system require > power even when the car sits unused. This is why the owners manual > recommends turning off the battery when you know you won't be using the > car for a week or more. The switch is under the steering wheel near your > left knee. That switch turns off the SKS. There is no switch which disconnects the 12V battery. > > Keep in mind that some systems such as the Smart Key system require > > power even when the car sits unused. This is why the owners manual [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > That switch turns off the SKS. There is no switch which disconnects the > 12V battery. Right, and the SKS continuously draws battery power so switching it off saves battery power. > Keep in mind that some systems such as the Smart Key system require > power even when the car sits unused. This is why the owners manual > recommends turning off the battery when you know you won't be using the > car for a week or more. The switch is under the steering wheel near > your left knee. I have left my 2007 Prius at home and at long term parking lots for more than a week several times and had no problem starting it. I would imagine the smart key system draws only a trickle of power in the listening mode. I think the recommendation should read "if you wont's be using your car for weekS (plural)" or maybe even months. In this case it's more likely someone left radio on. ##-----------------------------------------------## Web access courtesy http://fuelzilla.com http://fuelzilla.com/groups/ Environmentally Friendly Driving Web and RSS access to your favorite newsgroup - alt.autos.toyota.prius - 3471 messages and counting! ##-----------------------------------------------## In article <I4nwj.253754$MJ6.210928@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, > After a week of sitting in the garage, we got into our 2006 Prius and found > there was no power--everything was dark and dead. After finding and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > left on and we we just do the usual city/country driving . The propulsion > battery was fine and showed a normal charge as soon as the car started. Something was left on. Of course now it's impossible to prove either either way. > In article > <I4nwj.253754$MJ6.210928@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Something was left on. Of course now it's impossible to prove either > either way. Thanks for the useful comments. A recheck of everything (lights, radio, etc.) indicated that nothing was left on; so it was likely the Smart Key System plus a 12 volt battery that was not at full charge because of short trips or heavy accessory use just before the week-long shutdown. Very cold weather during that time may have contributed too. What I plan to do (when the weather warms up!) is to check the current draw of the Smart Key System against the capacity of the battery to get some idea of what Toyota means when they say to turn off the Smart Key System when "the vehicle is left for a long time". I also think an indication of the state of the 12 volt battery would be a good addition to the display roster. TKM In article <y8Vwj.258254$MJ6.119005@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, > Thanks for the useful comments. A recheck of everything (lights, radio, > etc.) indicated that nothing was left on; so it was likely the Smart Key [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > "the vehicle is left for a long time". I also think an indication of the > state of the 12 volt battery would be a good addition to the display roster. Ah, now it comes out: "heavy accessory use" is the culprit here. The ACC position should not be used for more than a very few minutes at a time because it tends to kill the undersized 12V battery. Unless the car is in an enclosed space, when accessories are in use it should be left ON and in Park so that it can manage its own energy as it was designed to do. > In article > <y8Vwj.258254$MJ6.119005@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > left ON and in Park so that it can manage its own energy as it was > designed to do. If I recall correctly from a couple of years ago, one of the biggest power drains is the dashboard display. In fact I recall hearing (or reading) somewhere that it's best to avoid using it in the accessories mode for more than 30 minutes as it had a tendency to discharge the battery. As a matter of course, therefore, if I happen to be using the radio in accessory mode I always turn off the display via the menu, as a precaution. However, the dealer didn't say WHICH battery and I'm fairly sure I've read somewhere else since that the 12v unit is really only there to power low wattage critical systems (such as engine management and other systems at start-up) and that everything else is energised by the HV unit, so I'm not really sure whether what he said was true or not. Perhaps there is an expert reading this that can clear this up? > If I recall correctly from a couple of years ago, one of the biggest power > drains is the dashboard display. In fact I recall hearing (or reading) [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > what he said was true or not. Perhaps there is an expert reading this that > can clear this up? When the Prius is off, the HV battery is physically disconnected from the electrical system via a solenoid. (you can hear it "click" from the back of the car when you are starting it.) The solenoid will engage when the car is in the 'On' or 'Ready' mode; in the 'Acc' mode (1 push of power without brake), it is still disconnected, so the electrical power is only coming from the 12V battery. >> In article >> <y8Vwj.258254$MJ6.119005@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > so I'm not really sure whether what he said was true or not. Perhaps > there is an expert reading this that can clear this up? It would indeed be useful to know which battery powers what. Certainly the Prius 12 volt battery is physically smaller than the battery in many other cars. What I recall doing before leaving the car off for a week was driving several short trips at night in rain and snow with the wipers, electric defroster, lights and heater motor all on. To me that's heavy accessory use since the battery probably doesn't get fully charged. Cold weather also reduces battery capacity. I very seldom use accessory mode and haven't for some months. But, lesson learned. The Smart Key System gets switched off if the car is to be left off more than a couple of days especially in the winter. TKM > It would indeed be useful to know which battery powers what. So turn the Prius on in accessory mode and find out. > > It would indeed be useful to know which battery powers what. > > So turn the Prius on in accessory mode and find out. When the HV battery is engaged, there is an inverter which, among other things, supplies power from the HV battery to the 12V bus. The only need for the 12V battery is to supply power to the electronics when first starting the car, and also for power in the ACC mode, which as previously pointed out, is not a good thing to do for any extended period of time. >> > It would indeed be useful to know which battery powers what. >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > previously pointed out, is not a good thing to do for any extended > period of time. Thanks. That's very good information. Rather than jump start the Prius next time the battery is down, maybe one of those battery packs that plugs into the dashboard power outlet would do the job. It certainly doesn't sound like much power would be required. I"m also looking for a Prius wiring diagram. That ought to be good for a few days of reading. TKM >>> > It would indeed be useful to know which battery powers what. >>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >into the dashboard power outlet would do the job. It certainly doesn't >sound like much power would be required. As I understand it, the two 12V power outlets are turned off when the Prius is shut down, so they can't be used to provide power to turn the beast back on. You are back to a battery jump, I fear. The comment by "Mr. G" is incomplete. The 12V battery continues power to the SmartKey sensor system and the remote access system when SmartKey is not installed. There are several sensors, I believe, and they are enough drain on the 12V battery to make the car go dead after a couple of weeks of being unused. Other things in the car still have power, such as parking and brake lights, internal lighting, and even (I would bet) the clock in the radio, and if enough of those things were left on, there might be an even greater drain on the obviously inadequate 12V battery. > >"Mr. G" <mrg@aol.com> wrote in message > >> When the HV battery is engaged, there is an inverter which, among other [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > there might be an even greater drain on the obviously inadequate 12V > battery. Yes, thanks for catching my mistake. I was thinking along the lines of accessories, etc. But the 12V must also power all the various electronics that are always 'on', if even in a sleep mode. I have no idea what the SKS draws, but it's probably one of the more significant drains on the system. There is not only the drain from those things that any car would have, but other items unique to the Prius, such as the coolant pump (though that's a one-time thing when you shut down). If I go into my garage when my Prius is just sitting, it's not unusual to hear it make various whirring and clicking sounds. One of these I understand to be the brake actuator, which usually can be caused to kick in if you step on the brake pedal with the car off. The manual mentions a pump in the back that checks for leakage from the batteries. And there are any number of other various noises which I'm at a loss to explain. So yes, that tiny 12V battery has a lot to do while the car sits idle. In article <ETXxj.682666$kj1.156332@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, > > When the HV battery is engaged, there is an inverter which, among other > > things, supplies power from the HV battery to the 12V bus. The only [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > next time the battery is down, maybe one of those battery packs that plugs > into the dashboard power outlet would do the job. It would, IF the dashboard power outlet were live. It's not live until the system is in Ready--and that requires the 12v battery... > > Thanks. That's very good information. Rather than jump start the Prius > > next time the battery is down, maybe one of those battery packs that plugs [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > It's not live until the system is in Ready--and that requires the 12v > battery... It is simple to modify one of the two outlets so that it is always live and therefore can be used for a jump. Of course then it is also always available to drain the battery through an attached accessory. >>> In article >>> <y8Vwj.258254$MJ6.119005@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > > TKM Once the car is in Ready mode, the 12V battery powers nothing. All the electric power comes from the traction battery and the motor/generator. So using your wipers, electric defroster, lights and heater motor while driving will have no impact on your 12V. SignaturePeace, BobJ > After a week of sitting in the garage, we got into our 2006 Prius and found > there was no power--everything was dark and dead. After finding and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > left on and we we just do the usual city/country driving . The propulsion > battery was fine and showed a normal charge as soon as the car started. Most common cause for finding a dead NHW20 Prius 12v accessory battery is from the dome light in the cargo area being left on, usually from the rear hatch not being closed properly. Always lock your Prius either by the Smart system or the remote - the Prius will not lock the car if a door is left open, and the open door (usually the rear hatch) will cause the 12v battery to deplete faster than just the Smart system or the alarm system's parasitic drain... >> After a week of sitting in the garage, we got into our 2006 Prius and found >> there was no power--everything was dark and dead. After finding and [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >(usually the rear hatch) will cause the 12v battery to deplete faster >than just the Smart system or the alarm system's parasitic drain... Another comment for the OP... If this ever happens again, you don't need to "find and uncover" the battery. Toyota provides a jump start terminal near the fuse enclosure. ...Pat >>> After a week of sitting in the garage, we got into our 2006 Prius and >>> found [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > need to "find and uncover" the battery. Toyota provides a jump start > terminal near the fuse enclosure. ...Pat Thanks. I remembered the front terminal after I did the jumper on the battery thing. It's worth a dry run though as I found that removing the cover on the front terminal took some fiddling. TKM |
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