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Car Forum / Toyota / Prius / August 2008

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12 V Battery Beware

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Steve Giannoni - 13 Apr 2008 16:31 GMT
This sucker started going dead on my 2001 if I didn't use the car for
more than a day or so. It just apparently lost capacity over 7 years
and couldn't keep up with the theft deterrent and other "off use"
electronics. So I had to pay $335.37 to Toyota for a replacement. Nice
Hugh! The new is different from the original (hope it's upgraded
capacity!) and required special new mounting hardware which they
didn't stock (natch!). Three days and all that dough just to change a
12V battery (sheesh!). Any one with similar experience?
Chas Gill - 13 Apr 2008 16:39 GMT
> This sucker started going dead on my 2001 if I didn't use the car for
> more than a day or so. It just apparently lost capacity over 7 years
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> didn't stock (natch!). Three days and all that dough just to change a
> 12V battery (sheesh!). Any one with similar experience?

Any lead-acid battery that manages 6 years has done well.  Having said that,
this seems like an awful lot of money for what is, essentially, a low
capacity, small battery.  Maybe it's because it's relatively rare?  Living
in the UK - and being used to dollar/pound parity - i.e. anything that costs
a dollar in the States is usually around a pound in the UK ;-(  - gives me
cause for concern about what it will cost me in 3 years time.........

Chas
Mike Rosenberg - 13 Apr 2008 16:48 GMT
> Any lead-acid battery that manages 6 years has done well.  Having said
> that, this seems like an awful lot of money for what is, essentially, a
> low capacity, small battery.  Maybe it's because it's relatively rare?

A quick Google search for "Prius 12 volt battery" turned up several hits
at $133.95, which is still ridiculously expensive but a far cry cheaper
than the OP paid.

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Bob & Holly Wilson - 13 Apr 2008 17:09 GMT
> This sucker started going dead on my 2001 if I didn't use the car for
> more than a day or so. It just apparently lost capacity over 7 years
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> didn't stock (natch!). Three days and all that dough just to change a
> 12V battery (sheesh!). Any one with similar experience?

That is a shame but last year over in "Prius Technical Stuff" we looked
at servicing the 12 V battery. I took mine out; removed the "Do Not
Remove" seal; took out the little plugs; and added distilled water; and
put it back together.

Eventually my 12 V battery will fail and when it does, if water
rehydration doesn't work, I'll buy a $25-35 lawn tractor battery and
copper piping from Lowe's. I'll fabricate two adapters and use the
cheaper battery.

There is an adapter that allows you to use a Miata battery in your
Prius. This brings the price to about $90 the last time I checked. But
for my purposes, a sealed, lawn tractor battery with vent tube will work
good enough.

Bob Wilson
e - 13 Apr 2008 17:30 GMT
Bob -

On my '04 (now ~4.5 years old), I notice that the
windows run UP/DOWN more slowly - probably a function of
internal resistance of the 12V battery.

I'd like to service that battery and clean/protect all
high-current connections. Presumably you must clip any
12V source in parallel while yanking it to avoid losing
system memory. Any other advice?

Can you recommend a suitable replacement battery? How
difficult is it to handle the venting?

Thanks!
Steve Giannoni - 13 Apr 2008 18:34 GMT
Check the 12 V battery voltage while operating a window or just see
how much the lights dim ...

>Bob -
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
>Thanks!
Bob & Holly Wilson - 13 Apr 2008 21:25 GMT
> On my '04 (now ~4.5 years old), I notice that the
> windows run UP/DOWN more slowly - probably a function of
> internal resistance of the 12V battery.

With the car in READY? With the car ON, the 12 VDC system gets the power
from the inverter. But if you notice the speed change with the car not
READY, so you're running on just the battery, this does sound like it
might be getting a bit weak.

The battery is rated at 35 Ahr and I think AutoZone will test it for
free.

But before doing a battery swap, you might check over in "Prius
Technical Stuff" and probably even PriusChat about how to add water.
This is not a difficult task and a little distilled water goes a long
way.

> I'd like to service that battery and clean/protect all
> high-current connections. Presumably you must clip any
> 12V source in parallel while yanking it to avoid losing
> system memory. Any other advice?

Sounds like a good idea but not something I worry about. In my case, I
don't have much 'stored' in the ECUs.

> Can you recommend a suitable replacement battery? How
> difficult is it to handle the venting?

I've heard a lot of good things about the Miata battery. But I need to
point out I live in North Alabama and our batteries suffer more from
heat than cold. So for me, a lawn tractor battery is a good alternative.

Bob Wilson
Steve Giannoni - 13 Apr 2008 17:18 GMT
Battery $160.89
Special Hardware $52.85
Labor $95.00
Tax ...

>This sucker started going dead on my 2001 if I didn't use the car for
>more than a day or so. It just apparently lost capacity over 7 years
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>didn't stock (natch!). Three days and all that dough just to change a
>12V battery (sheesh!). Any one with similar experience?
Elmo P. Shagnasty - 13 Apr 2008 17:42 GMT
> This sucker started going dead on my 2001 if I didn't use the car for
> more than a day or so. It just apparently lost capacity over 7 years

That's not a "beware" item.

Saying that a car battery went dead after 7 years is like saying "water
is wet".  Big deal.
Mike Rosenberg - 13 Apr 2008 17:59 GMT
> That's not a "beware" item.
>
> Saying that a car battery went dead after 7 years is like saying "water
> is wet".  Big deal.

Um, do you think paying over $335 to replace said battery is also not a
big deal?  I rather doubt he would have posted anything saying "beware"
if it had cost under $100.

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Elmo P. Shagnasty - 13 Apr 2008 21:44 GMT
> > That's not a "beware" item.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> big deal?  I rather doubt he would have posted anything saying "beware"
> if it had cost under $100.

I made no comment on the expense--because neither did the original
poster.  I responded directly to his idea that somehow, some way, the
time to replace the battery should be specified, that he should never
randomly come out to the use the car and find out it won't start, that
he should never have any SURPRISES in life whatsoever, that it's
Toyota's responsibility (!) to prevent him from ever coming out to find
that the car won't start.

Apparently, he's never owned a car before.

As for the price--well, a smart buyer investigates all aspects of the
car before buying it.  A smart buyer looks at regular maintenance costs
and finds information on reliability, in order to evaluate operating
costs.  A battery is a maintenance item.  'Nuff said.

Said smart buyer also investigates insurance costs, for example.

One hates to be called "not a smart buyer," but if the shoe fits...

BTW, Chrysler pulled a similar stunt with their cars awhile back--put
the battery way down such that replacing it meant pulling the front
wheel and pulling off the fender liner.  Sure, it was a standard
battery.  But the labor costs added up.  All so that it cost Chrysler
less to manufacture.

Such is the Prius.  It was convenient for the manufacturer.  Screw the
customer.  Let him pay for it.  Toyota needed a certain price point on
the sticker.  That's all.  Toyota doesn't care if the car needs $5000
worth of maintenance 5 years later.  That's later.  (The car doesn't,
but even if it did, Toyota wouldn't care.)

You know, there's enough information out on the net nowadays that
EVERYONE spending $25,000 on a car (or even $10,000) should know
EVERYTHING about that car prior to beginning the purchase process.

The problem is, the world is full of idiots who happen to have (or think
they have) $25,000 to spend.  They don't bother to KNOW anything about
that $25,000 purchase; they go out, get caught up in the emotions of
buying a new car, and just sign on the dotted line right then and there.

Stupid people let emotions rule the decision.  Smart people don't let
emotions into a business deal.  Notice how the car salesman is a
businessman, and has no emotion in the deal whatsoever.

Guess who wins?

And if you find out 5 years later that the tiny CMOS battery in the
trunk costs $335 to replace, so be it.  You COULD have spent a couple of
months lurking in any number of Prius forums, and found out everything
about the car.  But you didn't--because you made it an emotional
decision, not a rational business decision.

Warren Buffet doesn't buy things on emotion.
Mike Rosenberg - 13 Apr 2008 21:58 GMT
> I made no comment on the expense--because neither did the original
> poster.  I responded directly to his idea that somehow, some way, the
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Toyota's responsibility (!) to prevent him from ever coming out to find
> that the car won't start.

You responded to all that in his post?  The post that said:

"This sucker started going dead on my 2001 if I didn't use the car for
more than a day or so. It just apparently lost capacity over 7 years
and couldn't keep up with the theft deterrent and other "off use"
electronics. So I had to pay $335.37 to Toyota for a replacement. Nice
Hugh! The new is different from the original (hope it's upgraded
capacity!) and required special new mounting hardware which they
didn't stock (natch!). Three days and all that dough just to change a
12V battery (sheesh!). Any one with similar experience?"

That post?  The one in which he talked about how much the battery cost
and didn't say anything you just said he said?  _That_ post?

> And if you find out 5 years later that the tiny CMOS battery in the
> trunk costs $335 to replace, so be it.  You COULD have spent a couple of
> months lurking in any number of Prius forums, and found out everything
> about the car.  But you didn't--because you made it an emotional
> decision, not a rational business decision.

So, let me see if I understand.  When he bought his 2001 Prius, which,
unless he specifically states otherwise, I'm assuming was in 2001 or
2002, he should have read in forums that may or may not have even
existed at the time, that, when the battery on that car got to be 5
years old (which had not yet happened to any other of that model Prius,
as it was introduced that year), it would cost him $335 to replace it?

Again, as I said, I doubt we would have heard anything from him if he'd
had to pay no more than $100, which is the most anyone would reasonably
expect to pay for a 12V car battery without any prior knowledge of this
one.

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Steve Giannoni - 13 Apr 2008 18:10 GMT
OK, maybe not "Beware" but "Be Advised That ...".

Shouldn't Toyota have specified maintenance replacement every 5 years,
etc.

>> This sucker started going dead on my 2001 if I didn't use the car for
>> more than a day or so. It just apparently lost capacity over 7 years
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>Saying that a car battery went dead after 7 years is like saying "water
>is wet".  Big deal.
Elmo P. Shagnasty - 13 Apr 2008 21:34 GMT
> >> This sucker started going dead on my 2001 if I didn't use the car for
> >> more than a day or so. It just apparently lost capacity over 7 years
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Shouldn't Toyota have specified maintenance replacement every 5 years,
> etc.

It's a car.  The battery is good for ABOUT five years, but....frankly,
it goes dead when it goes dead.  Replace it.

That's how the world works.  There's no specified time limit, no
maintenance schedule for the battery.  Either it works, or it doesn't.  
When it doesn't, replace it.  That's how car ownership is, with every
car.

If you've had the car (or the battery) for 5 or more years, you should
not at all be surprised to come out and find the battery dead.  You're
on your own as to how to deal with that.  If you don't like surprises,
then just have the battery checked every time you're in for
maintenance--they'll know when it's on the downhill slope, and you can
take care of it right then and there.

In short:  no, Toyota should not have specified maintenance replacement
every X years or months.  Not at all.  That's not how car batteries work.
Pete Granzeau - 14 Apr 2008 20:55 GMT
>> >> This sucker started going dead on my 2001 if I didn't use the car for
>> >> more than a day or so. It just apparently lost capacity over 7 years
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>In short:  no, Toyota should not have specified maintenance replacement
>every X years or months.  Not at all.  That's not how car batteries work.

The problem, of course, is that it's a very small battery, physically,
and there is no large aftermarket supply of them as there would have
been for virtually any American brand.  I can remember owning a 1971
Honda 600 coupe, and discovering that instead of the typical (for the
time) price of $16 to $19, I would have to pay $42 (I think) for a
battery which was only available from a Honda dealer.  I bit the bullet
and bought one; what else was I going to do?  I had a similar problem
finding 10 inch tires for the car (I ended up with Michelins, of all
things).
Tomes - 15 Apr 2008 03:00 GMT
>>> >> This sucker started going dead on my 2001 if I didn't use the car for
>>> >> more than a day or so. It just apparently lost capacity over 7 years
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
> finding 10 inch tires for the car (I ended up with Michelins, of all
> things).

I have always wanted one of those Hondas......
Tomes
Pete Granzeau - 16 Apr 2008 02:15 GMT
>> The problem, of course, is that it's a very small battery, physically,
>> and there is no large aftermarket supply of them as there would have
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>I have always wanted one of those Hondas......

I needed a second car at the time, and this one was offered in the
classifieds.  I bought it in 1975, and it had about 40,000 miles on it.
I kept it for 2 years, at which time, I believe it was just about
clapped out.  It was leaking oil into the passenger compartment from
someplace up front.  It was responsible for my purchase of a set of
metric socket wrenches and a 6" extender--I needed it to occasionally
tighten up the starter, as it would work loose.  It blew an exhaust
valve, and I had a 1-cylinder car for a while--it had no acceleration at
all, but even on 1 lung, I could redline it in all 4 gears.

I believe it was junked when I traded it in, in 1977.

I remember seeing two other 600 Coupes in the area with some regularity.
One was pristine, owned by a fellow worker who had bought it new, and
the other had been customized--great big fender flares on the rear, and
what looked like 15" rims with drag slicks ON THE REAR.  It had about a
15 degree down slant from rear to front.  Quite stylish, I guess.  It
still had that little air-cooled two cylinder engine driving the front
wheels, of course.
News - 13 Apr 2008 18:03 GMT
> This sucker started going dead on my 2001 if I didn't use the car for
> more than a day or so. It just apparently lost capacity over 7 years
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> didn't stock (natch!). Three days and all that dough just to change a
> 12V battery (sheesh!). Any one with similar experience?

Have you ever owned or maintained a car before?

How long do you think storage batteries typically, or "ought to", last?
bill g - 04 Aug 2008 10:46 GMT
You got ripped off.
the battery costs $137.50 and iseasily installed in about a half hour.
These batteriestypically last 4 years and can cause all kinds of weird
symptoms when they begin to  go bad.

The only thing worse for you would be to have Michelle Steiner as the
seervice manager.  She ferits this newssgroupand is quite the arrogant bozo!
William
> This sucker started going dead on my 2001 if I didn't use the car for
> more than a day or so. It just apparently lost capacity over 7 years
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> didn't stock (natch!). Three days and all that dough just to change a
> 12V battery (sheesh!). Any one with similar experience?
Michelle Steiner - 04 Aug 2008 15:04 GMT
> The only thing worse for you would be to have Michelle Steiner as the
> seervice manager.  She ferits this newssgroupand is quite the
> arrogant bozo!

It would be worse for him to listen to anything you say, a.shole.  Go
f.ck yourself.

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