I need a miracle - Or an expert? Starter problem....

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LisalouLiLRed - 26 Apr 2004 17:12 GMT

Okay, I need some serious help here. I am hoping someone has bunches of
experience with Toyota starter problems, because the whole situation is
beyond me.

I had some starter problems about a month ago. The toy started doing that
all too familiar "click" noise when I turned it over. At first I thought
the problem might be battery cables, so I replaced those. When that didn't
work, I replaced the starter. Once we got that in, it fired right up and I
haven't had any problems until last night. Trucks been working great, but
last night I stopped to get gas and when I went to leave it wouldn't start
again, just started making the "click" noise again when I tried to turn
her over.

This morning I went out and rigged up some jumper cables to see if I had a
ground problem. I also tried to connect a positive cable directly up to
the starter, nuttin. Everything is hooked up and connected, its not a
ground problem, so I am completely stumped. The truck will jump start when
I pop clutch. The clicking noise is coming from a starter relay that is
located on the firewall. I had always thought the relay was on the
starter, but this has a little metal box about the size of a raisin box
that says "starter relay" right on the side. I called Toyota and they
laughed at me and said there was no such thing.

Anybody wanna save me? Could this be an ignition problem, and what about
this mysterious relay???

Thanks in advance.

Lisa, Colorado

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Roger Brown - 26 Apr 2004 19:58 GMT

> Okay, I need some serious help here. I am hoping someone has bunches of
> experience with Toyota starter problems, because the whole situation is
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> Anybody wanna save me? Could this be an ignition problem, and what about
> this mysterious relay???

The relay is present is you have either a 5-speed tranny w/ clutch cancel switch or an automatic w/ neutral start swtich. Likely you are hearing the relay click because the starter, that would normally mask the sound of the relay, is not turning over
(and in the silence you can hear the relay clicking - and this means the relay is working, at least the coil is, maybe the contacts inside are pitted, but that would be the last thing I would check). Check the voltage at the starter solenoid control wire
(the small wire, not the big one) when you try to start it. If its way less than 12V, then the relay may be a problem. If its near to 12V, then check the contacts inside the starter solenoid (this part is attached to the starter) and see what they look
like, Most common place for Toyota (Denso) starters to fail at and luckily its an easy and inexpensive repair:
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/Starter.shtml

Signature

Roger

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Wolfgang - 26 Apr 2004 23:56 GMT

How old is the battery -- if 3+ years old it could be delivering low
voltage. Is the new starter from Toyota or a lifetime warranty rebuild from
Advance Auto or Pep Boys? If lifetime -- you'll be amazed at how many times
you will get to collect! They fix only what is obviously wrong -- they
don't rebuild the entire unit (hoping you'll trade it before it goes
kapput). .

> > Okay, I need some serious help here. I am hoping someone has bunches of
> > experience with Toyota starter problems, because the whole situation is
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> The relay is present is you have either a 5-speed tranny w/ clutch cancel switch or an automatic w/ neutral start swtich. Likely you are hearing the

relay click because the starter, that would normally mask the sound of the
relay, is not turning over

> (and in the silence you can hear the relay clicking - and this means the relay is working, at least the coil is, maybe the contacts inside are

pitted, but that would be the last thing I would check). Check the voltage
at the starter solenoid control wire

> (the small wire, not the big one) when you try to start it. If its way less than 12V, then the relay may be a problem. If its near to 12V, then

check the contacts inside the starter solenoid (this part is attached to the
starter) and see what they look

> like, Most common place for Toyota (Denso) starters to fail at and luckily its an easy and inexpensive repair:
> http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/Starter.shtml

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pheasant - 27 Apr 2004 10:57 GMT

> How old is the battery -- if 3+ years old it could be delivering low
> voltage. Is the new starter from Toyota or a lifetime warranty rebuild from
> Advance Auto or Pep Boys? If lifetime -- you'll be amazed at how many times
> you will get to collect! They fix only what is obviously wrong -- they
> don't rebuild the entire unit (hoping you'll trade it before it goes
> kapput). .

I'll second that!
Replaced 3 alternators within 6 months on daughter's car before I finally
got mad enough to go to the junkyard and get one for 20 bucks vs the 160 for
the "lifetime" rebuild.
2 years later still going strong. I never buy starters or alternators from
parts jobbers any more.
Mark

Signature

Four boxes protect our freedom: the soap box, the
ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.

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Celica Dude - 27 Apr 2004 14:31 GMT

> I'll second that!
> Replaced 3 alternators within 6 months on daughter's car before I finally
> got mad enough to go to the junkyard and get one for 20 bucks vs the 160 for
> the "lifetime" rebuild.
> 2 years later still going strong. I never buy starters or alternators from
> parts jobbers any more.

Went into a local parts house here with the alternator from my '74 Dart
(this was the third "reman" one)... I had just driven up there in the
90-degree+ heat. I had removed the alternator in the parking lot and
quickly set it in the box (which i kept in the car). Set the thing on the
counter and at the same time told the guy "WATCH OUT, IT IS HOT AS HELL"..
So, he opens the box, picks up the box (and he's a big guy) so he inverts
the box and drops the alternator out of the box and into his other hand.
"OWWWWW THAT $HIT is HOTTTT".. He dropped it back into the box with a nice
THUD onto the counter.

It was worth the trouble to see that happen! :o)

> Four boxes protect our freedom: the soap box, the
> ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.

Beautifully stated.

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Celica Dude - 27 Apr 2004 14:20 GMT

Hey Rog, you have a definite gift for documenting your projects! I always
start my projects with the intention of photographing everything as I go and
making notes, but it never seems to happen (my helpers always have short
attention spans and my hands are always filthy)... I'll end up with a photo
of the beginning -- before anything was removed... and one of the end --
with the new parts installed, but it's hard to tell by looking at the
picture..

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LisalouLiLRed - 27 Apr 2004 21:30 GMT

Ok Guys, An update!
I took to heart the things you guys said and did a little investigative
work. I got the maintenance guy in my apartment complex to charge up my
battery for me to make sure it wasn't a battery problem, since I don't
carry around a voltage meter everywhere I go. My purse isn't that big.
Anyway, it wasn't a battery problem. I took a piece of wire and touched it
to the positive cable and directly to the starter...and nothing happened.
That's when I decided I should take the starter back to where I got it to
have it tested and ultimately replaced.

WELL...it was the starter! I bought a brand new Autolite starter, too! No
rebuilds. So I got it replaced no cost no haggle. Hopefully I don't have
anymore problems...

But here's another question...could my truck be frying these starters? I
guess if the third starter goes out, ill know somethins up! However, the
original starter, the first one I replaced, had been in that truck for at
least 10 years, so I sort of doubt it.

Anyway, thank all of you for your help! I appreciate it!

Lisa, Colorado

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Roger Brown - 28 Apr 2004 03:06 GMT

> Ok Guys, An update!
> I took to heart the things you guys said and did a little investigative
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> original starter, the first one I replaced, had been in that truck for at
> least 10 years, so I sort of doubt it.

Could have saved a bunch of money repairing the existing starter (assuming it was the stock Denso unit) than a new one, but at least w/ new, you have the option of repairing it to put in when the "new" one dies. I would check the voltage at the starter
solenoid connection when starting to see if its good and strong. You may have a marginal relay or corroded wires running to the solenoid and if the voltage and current to it is "weak", it won't make good contact and this will cause the contacts to arc
and burn over time, wearing them out faster than normal.

Signature

Roger

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WRH - 28 Apr 2004 21:37 GMT

Be sure you have a good ground going from the battery to the engine block.
Grounds are the most overlooked connections in electrical circuits.

Signature

Bill
Chesapeake, Va

> Ok Guys, An update!
> I took to heart the things you guys said and did a little investigative
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> Lisa, Colorado

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