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Car Forum / Toyota / Toyota Trucks / July 2006

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1988 Pickup Brakes...

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mothy - 24 Jul 2006 16:30 GMT
Hey, I'm in the process of replacing virtually every brake component in
my 1988 Pickup (only 73K miles on the same, but boy, I don't think any
of its bolts or fasteners have been removed since it left the factory).
My question today is about my front calipers: for the life of me I
can't get the cylinders (my dad calls them "hocky pucks") in the
calipers to compress enough to fit around the new brake pads.  It seems
like the pads are collectively at least 1/8" too thick, and I finally
gave up and put the old pads (about half left) back in.  The rotars are
new, but they're exactly the same size as the old ones.  With the old
brake pads there's plenty of room.  Am I doing something wrong?  Should
those cylinders be almost flush with the face of the caliper when
compressed, or should they extend about 1/4" out (as they did right out
of the box)?  Is there a trick to compressing my calipers to get them
in?  Thank you for your help.

Yours,

mothy
Lhead - 24 Jul 2006 19:28 GMT
> Hey, I'm in the process of replacing virtually every brake component in
> my 1988 Pickup (only 73K miles on the same, but boy, I don't think any
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> mothy

This one's easy. The pistons in the calipers are not fully retracted
into their bores. You need a long C-clamp, probably an eight or ten
incher.
Pull the cover on the master cylinder and remove about one third of the
brake fluid from it. Replace master cylinder cover.  Unscrew the clamp
and put the non-moving part on the outside of the caliper. Screw the
moving part of the clamp down into the piston or "hockey puck" until it
contacts the piston. Slowly screw down the clamp and push the piston
completely into the caliper, until it can go no further. Now, look at
the master cylinder fluid level, it will have risen some. If needed,
pull more fluid from the master cylinder.  Repeat on the other side.
You'll notice now that new pads will fit just fine.
After brakes are installed, don't forget to check fluid level once
again.
Mike Harris - 24 Jul 2006 20:25 GMT
>> Hey, I'm in the process of replacing virtually every brake component in
>> my 1988 Pickup (only 73K miles on the same, but boy, I don't think any
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> After brakes are installed, don't forget to check fluid level once
> again.

Opening the bleeder valves may help.
--
Mike Harris
Austin, TX
Bruce L. Bergman - 25 Jul 2006 16:37 GMT
>>>    <snip>
>>> My question today is about my front calipers: for the life of me I
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
>Opening the bleeder valves may help.

 Yes - help lots of air (and possibly dirt) get into the brake
system, and then he has to learn the wonders of brake bleeding the
hard way.  BAD IDEA, GUY...  :(  

 "Please step away from the bleeder valves..."  ;-)

 The fluid should go back to the master cylinder just fine with a
C-clamp or a proper brake caliper retractor tool.  The only reason it
wouldn't work would be a mis-adjusted master cylinder pushrod, if the
Master piston isn't fully retracting and the return ports aren't
opening up - but the OP would be complaining about dragging brakes.

 And get the brake fluid level down before retracting the pistons, as
LHead mentioned, or the reservoir will overflow when you retract them.
You don't want that, because the fluid will spit out the vent hole in
the lid, and wherever the brake fluid goes the car paint will be
destroyed and it'll peel off to bare metal - top of the hood, along
the firewall, and if the hood's open and it spits out onto the
fender...

 Go down to the "99c Only" store and buy a cheap turkey baster, and
mark it with a permanent marker "For Automotive Use Only".  Trust me,
you won't want to use it in the kitchen after it has had brake fluid
in it.

 Do NOT put the old fluid you suck out back into the clean fluid
bottle, and do NOT mix it with used motor oil or coolant - go get a
clean 3-gallon or 5-gallon plastic bucket with a gasketed lid, and
mark it "Used Brake Fluid".  You also use this bucket as a catch when
bleeding the brakes.  And when the bucket starts getting full, take it
in for recycling.

    --<< Bruce >>--
Mike Harris - 25 Jul 2006 16:48 GMT
>>>>    <snip>
>>>> My question today is about my front calipers: for the life of me I
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>
>  "Please step away from the bleeder valves..."  ;-)

I do it all the time.  I also use a plastic tube connected to the bleeder,
with the other end clipped into a jar of clean brake fluid so as not to take
in air or dirt should the pistons move the wrong direction.  I'd rather have
the old fluid as well as any crud caught on the far side of the pistons OUT
of the system via the bleeders, instead of pushed back up towards the MC.

Perhaps I shouldn't assume a certain degree of mechanical competence among
Usenet users?
--
Mike Harris
"You actually listened to some guy on Usenet?  There's your problem, right
there."
Austin, TX
mothy - 25 Jul 2006 20:57 GMT
>   The fluid should go back to the master cylinder just fine with a
> C-clamp or a proper brake caliper retractor tool.  The only reason it
> wouldn't work would be a mis-adjusted master cylinder pushrod, if the
> Master piston isn't fully retracting and the return ports aren't
> opening up - but the OP would be complaining about dragging brakes.

Interestingly enough, both of my calipers were diagnosed as having been
frozen prior to my replacing them.  When I was trying to depress the
old ones today to figure out how much pressure I must apply to get them
to retract, they seemed to pop in pretty easily.  Could a mis-adjusted
master cylinder pushrod present the same symptoms as frozen calipers?

Thanks,

mothy
Bruce L. Bergman - 26 Jul 2006 02:16 GMT
>>   The fluid should go back to the master cylinder just fine with a
>> C-clamp or a proper brake caliper retractor tool.  The only reason it
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>to retract, they seemed to pop in pretty easily.  Could a mis-adjusted
>master cylinder pushrod present the same symptoms as frozen calipers?

 Absitively - if the piston doesn't fully retract, the drain ports do
not fully open.  The brakes on one end will work fine when cold, but
when they heat up the fluid expands and has no place to go.

 Third or fourth hard stop, they get hot, the fluid expands, and one
end's brakes won't release, no matter what you do.

 Don't ask me what the slop spec is, but there is one - probably one
or two MM.   I figure if the piston is fully retracted to the stop
c-clip or pin, the pedal doesn't have a weak return spring and it's
fully retracted to it's stop, and there's noticeable wiggle room for
the pushrod, you should be fine.

 If you're getting oddness like that., you may be by elapsed time
alone better off to go through and change out the master cylinder,
calipers and wheel cylinders, and rubber brake hoses - just on general
principles of 18 to 19 years of the rubber parts' exposure to ozone
and contaminants.  Rebuilt parts are cheaper than a nasty collision.

 I did it to my Corvair after several years of it sitting, and I'm
told there were a few surprises found when he did a post-mortem on the
brake parts.  And with a Pre-1966-ish car with a single braking system
any one failure knocks out the entire brake system.  It's due again
after another sitting parked for several years period.

 Your truck has split brakes, but a front brake failure will still
get exciting if it happens at a bad time, as the front brakes do most
of the heavy work.  The rears only will get you stopped - eventually.
If you don't have the time or room for the extra distance...

   --<< Bruce >>--
mothy - 25 Jul 2006 14:10 GMT
Question: right out of the box, how difficult should these pistons be
to depress?  Neither seemed to budge right out of the box using an 8"
vice and a block of wood; could one or both be seized before I even use
them?  How hard do I really need to turn the clamp to get these pistons
to move?

Thanks,

mothy

> This one's easy. The pistons in the calipers are not fully retracted
> into their bores. You need a long C-clamp, probably an eight or ten
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> the master cylinder fluid level, it will have risen some. If needed,
> pull more fluid from the master cylinder.
 
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