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Car Forum / Toyota / Toyota Trucks / August 2006

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Higher RPM's... Torque converter or Transmission issue?

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dwkerschen@hotmail.com - 25 Aug 2006 02:08 GMT
1993 4Runner 3L, Auto, 4x4, 160K, Tran cooler.  (Had this for 8 years.)

I am noticing much larger variations in my RPM while maintaining
constant MPH then I did in the past (true with cruse on or off).

When driving a constant speed, say 65mph in overdrive, the tac reads
2600rpm when driving in flat no-load conditions.

When I come to a hill the tac will clime to 3000rpm (a 400 RPM
increase) as throttle is needed to maintain the same speed (true with
cruse or foot).

The RPM's a few years ago, unless my mind is playing tricks on me,
would change only 100 or 200 RPM as throttle was added.  Now days it is
a good 400 RPM increase.

At some point the transmission will down-shift out of overdrive just
fine... no issues there.
I just notice the higher RPM's before the shift... AND I think I notice
higher RPM's after the shift (do not have good numbers on this
however).

Do I have a problem coming?
Is my  torque converter unhappy?

((FYI... in the more distant past I was having the tran temp light come
on a once or twice a year when driving highway speeds in the Mountains
outside of Denver on hot days.  Would have high RMP's too.  But the
Tran cooler fixed that right up.  My issue now is generic around town
driving.))

Thx
Dave-in-Denver
SnoMan - 25 Aug 2006 12:39 GMT
>1993 4Runner 3L, Auto, 4x4, 160K, Tran cooler.  (Had this for 8 years.)
>
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>Thx
>Dave-in-Denver

I could be one of two problems, either the locking converter clutch
has failed or the clutch in tranny is worn and slipping. Given your
area and terrain (I have been in denver area many times) and the fact
that you over heated tranny twice, I tend to thnk it is a tranny
clutch issue and it will only get worse with time. When you cooked it
it may have damaged the clutches and though you have a aux cooler on
it now the damage may have been done. Sorry to be a bit gloomy about
it.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
dwkerschen@hotmail.com - 26 Aug 2006 01:40 GMT
Thanks SnoMan,
Is this at the need-to-fix pont or can I drive untill it gets worse?

Presuem when I get it fixed I should do the entire tranny and not just
the cluch parts...
so if that is true I could drive this thing untl I start having real
problems rather than just occasional high RPM's on hills.

Will any additives help me with my procastination?

THX!

Dave-in-Denver
SnoMan - 26 Aug 2006 12:54 GMT
>Thanks SnoMan,
>Is this at the need-to-fix pont or can I drive untill it gets worse?
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
>Dave-in-Denver

THis is a tuff question to answer accurately because there are a lot
of varibles here. You can drive it for a while but you should consider
down shifting on long hard pulls to easy strain on drive clutch (if
this is the problem) and lower tranny temps a bit. If you nurse it it
may run some time.  If you have oversized tires on it, go back to
stock as this will ease tranny strain noticably. If I did a rebuild, I
would do a complete overhaul because the parts are not the expensive
and the biggest part of overhaul price is labors anf the difference
between a partical and complete rebuild is small.

WHen you look for a long term solution, consider this, back in the
70's and earlier Detriot used to gear truck differently for sales in
mountain states because of thinner air and longer climbs. They stopped
doing it when federal emissions and MPG rating came on board.  "If"
you plan to keep truck for a long time nad you run bigger tires you
would do well to consider regearing the truck as it will reduce tranny
strain. (it would extend life of old one the same as small tires
would). Myself, I am consideing moving to CO for earlier retirement in
about 5 years and when I do I am going to regear my trucks. I have a
stock 89 1500 4x4 burb that I bought new that has been in CO many
times all aver state and up pikes peak a few times too. It has 3.73's
gears with stock tires and it does fine at lower altitudes but above
8000 feet or so it really get weak and OD about worthless.  The burb
is still cherry and if I take it there it will have 4.10's in it or
deeper still if I put bigger tires on it.

On additives, I would change the fluid and filter and keep it fresh
and keep a eye on it. As long as it has the funny kinda sweet smell
you are okay but if it starts to stink or smell like burnt peanut
butter the end is near.  Also if it starts to get brownish red or
darker still it is not a good sign either.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
me - 26 Aug 2006 17:40 GMT
Hello!
On a different but similar note ~ any issues with replacing fluid with
synthetics? So many choices out there these days.
Bill
SnoMan - 26 Aug 2006 18:23 GMT
>Hello!
>On a different but similar note ~ any issues with replacing fluid with
>synthetics? So many choices out there these days.
>Bill

I thought of that but given that it has been cooked some I am
reluctant to suggest a change to its diet as it could go either way
with SYN (better or worse)  
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
dwkerschen@hotmail.com - 27 Aug 2006 04:27 GMT
Thanks again SnoMan,

GOOD tips on having the entire trany re-done Vs. just misc unhappy
parts, etc.

I run 235/75/15 tires... I got rid of the big stock-size 31x10.5 soon
after I bought SR5 4Runner years go because I needed the torque with
the gutless 2Gen 4Runner 3.0L up here in Denver where the air is thin
and hills are steep.  Performed much better and got better mileage too.
I am do for a new set of tires... have been thinking I would go down a
notch to the "standard small" size of 225/75/15 for this SUV...
will definitely do so with your advice.  THX.

I do not know the gear ratio info... will check out this option too.

FYI... because this SUV has "a history" with it trany temp light I
have been extra cautious on trany maintenance.   I have had the trany
serviced 4 times in 8 years. (2 power flush, 2 filter/fluid jobs).

Thx
Dave-in-Denver
SnoMan - 27 Aug 2006 12:02 GMT
>FYI... because this SUV has "a history" with it trany temp light I
>have been extra cautious on trany maintenance.   I have had the trany
>serviced 4 times in 8 years. (2 power flush, 2 filter/fluid jobs).

You live in beautiful country but as you know it can be hard on
trannys. One more thing to remember here. When pulling hard you want
to try to keep rpm at and above 2600 RPM. THe reason for this is that
you want to get well clear of converter stall area to because when it
is in stall area or near it it makes extra heat. Sure a torque
converter does boost torque at lower RPM on tranny input shaft but it
also makes heat too while doing it and this is why you have had issues
with it in past. BTW 225 would be a stepp in right direction and you
might even consider 215's too. (it would be cheaper than a gear swap)
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
 
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