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Car Forum / Toyota / Toyota Trucks / June 2007differential wanted
I need a differential for 92 4runner v6 4x4. Local to Portland, OR metro area if possible. Thanks in advance, Misty (360)521-0675 Front or rear differential? I haven't got one of either, but anybody that has got one will need to know which one you are looking for. It is seldom necessary to replace the entire diff, usually the internal parts (gears and bearings) are replaced. >I need a differential for 92 4runner v6 4x4. Local to Portland, OR > metro area if possible. > > Thanks in advance, > Misty (360)521-0675 > Front or rear differential? > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Thanks in advance, > > Misty (360)521-0675 What do you mean by "which one you are looking for"? Would I have best luck going to the parts store and getting the gears, or is this a job that requires a machine shop to press out the parts or some special tools? >> Front or rear differential? >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > that requires a machine shop to press out the parts or some special > tools? If thats a question you have to ask take it to a shop and get someone to do it for you. Remember the longest way round is the fastest way out! >> Front or rear differential? >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > What do you mean by "which one you are looking for"? Which one? The Front or the Rear. You stated that you have a 4x4, this means you have two diffs. One on the front axle and one on the rear. If you are not aware of this, odds favor you needing a mechanic. > <alan....@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > If you are not aware of this, odds favor you needing a mechanic. I must have needed some sleep before posting this question. I do need the rear differential. I am not planning to do the work myself, although I could as long as a press is not required or some special spanner wrench or such. I guess you all are professional mechanics and never need to ask questions. So I will quit bothering you. Thanks anyway. >> <alan....@gmail.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > spanner wrench or such. I guess you all are professional mechanics and > never need to ask questions. So I will quit bothering you. We're not professionals. But you asked, "what color is it?" without telling us what "it" is. There was no answer to the question without knowing if you needed the front or rear diff. Now that we know that you need the rear diff, maybe somebody will tell you what special tools are needed. Having said that, the setting of the Ring and Pinion Gears is a precision setting of sorts. There is a particular way to do the settings, check them, and repeat as needed. Some diffs require a press, and some are adjusted via the use of shims. I don't know how Toyota accomplishes this. As for asking questions, I'd have to ask the question you asked but I'd know which diff I was seeking information on. There are many different makes and models of differential, I don't know if Toyota uses one of these off-the-shelf axles, or if they make their own. You may have to figure out specifically which diff you have. >> <alan....@gmail.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > Thanks anyway. Alan, to remove and reinstall a diff centre you will need to remove tail shaft and axels. Then the centre should unbolt and pull out. If you have a fully set up unit from another truck (make sure that the ratios are EXACTLY THE SAME!!!! other wise you wont go far in 4wheel drive, well exactly nowhere to be precice) it should just bolt in and reassembles as you removed. Some say that you will need the diff back lash reset but thats your call. Ive never done in one the cars Ive changed diffs in just swapped em for other 2nd hand ones. The only special tools you might need is a puller for getting the axels out. Incidently, why are you changing the old one? Do you do a lot of 4x4ing? Is the old one a LSD or normal slippery diff? knowing this will help. Scotty >>> <alan....@gmail.com> wrote in message >>> [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > thats your call. Ive never done in one the cars Ive changed diffs in just > swapped em for other 2nd hand ones. That's all true except fo the part about EXACT same ratios. A 4.10 in the rear and a 4.11 in the front will be perfectly fine together. If the meaning of "exact" is within a few numerals two digits to the right of the decimal place, then they have to be exact, otherwise "close" is okay. > The only special tools you might need is a puller for getting the axels > out. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Scotty >> Alan, to remove and reinstall a diff centre you will need to remove tail >> shaft and axels. Then the centre should unbolt and pull out. If you have [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > meaning of "exact" is within a few numerals two digits to the right of the > decimal place, then they have to be exact, otherwise "close" is okay. Ummm, If my physics is still okay from 20 years ago (hell I scared myself then!) even a .01 difference will lead to different turning rates for front and rear wheels. How can this be okay? You like excessive tyre wear? To have all wheels turning at the same speed to maintain full control then all both front and rear ratios are required to be the same are they not? If I can be proven wrong please do as this is what Ive been told when doing mechanical stuff. >"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@verizon.net> wrote... >>> Alan, to remove and reinstall a diff centre you will need to remove tail >>> shaft and axels. Then the centre should unbolt and pull out. If you have [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >If I can be proven wrong please do as this is what Ive been told when doing >mechanical stuff. A very slight axle ratio difference like that will be overshadowed by the turning ratio differences as you take curves - remember, the front wheels take a much longer path than the rear, the rear tires 'cheat' and cut well to the inside of the arc formed by the front tires. Go out in the dirt and make a hard turn, you can see the tracks. And that difference in rotation speed adds up to driveline torque that has to be taken care of one of three ways: One of the wheels slips on the low-friction surface to relieve the torque, the center differential (if equipped) will relieve it, or some weak point in the driveline (u-joint, slip spline, axle shaft, locking hub) will break to relieve it. The slight axle ratio difference is fine IF you only engage 4WD on loose surfaces like you are supposed to, where the tires are allowed to slip a bit. Make a habit of engaging a part-time 4WD system (without a center differential) on pavement, and you WILL break something in the driveline. --<< Bruce >>-- >>> Alan, to remove and reinstall a diff centre you will need to remove tail >>> shaft and axels. Then the centre should unbolt and pull out. If you have [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > then!) even a .01 difference will lead to different turning rates for > front and rear wheels. In truth, there are different turning rates from front to rear no matter what the gear ratio is. This is why 4WD must only be used on soft surfaces where the tires can slip on the dirt and release the very stress you are concerned about. Your concern is rightfully placed, by the way, but a small difference in ratios is fine when the stress that results can be released through the tires slipping on the dirt. The distance around a turn for the front tires and the rear tires is always different, and the distance is likewise different from the left to the right side of the vehicle. A Part Time transfer case has no ability to compensate for the distance differences from front to rear, so the stress that results is disipated through the tires to the dirt. If the front end was a 3.07 and the rear was a 4.10 (for example), then the conditions you are warning the OP against would be true, but a 4.10 and a 4.11 work perfectly fine together. AWD (all wheel drive) systems have a differential of sorts built into the transfer case, and they tolerate the speed difference from front to rear while being used on the street, but they would not tolerate a difference in gear ratios for very long. But this is not the system at issue here, and I'm sorry for the digression. How can this be okay? You like excessive tyre wear? To > have all wheels turning at the same speed to maintain full control then > all both front and rear ratios are required to be the same are they not? > > If I can be proven wrong please do as this is what Ive been told when > doing mechanical stuff. >>>> Alan, to remove and reinstall a diff centre you will need to remove >>>> tail shaft and axels. Then the centre should unbolt and pull out. If [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > the conditions you are warning the OP against would be true, but a 4.10 > and a 4.11 work perfectly fine together. My concerns were that while driving on hard roads in servere wet weather I often engage 4wd for safety as the manual instructs for long distances. Any difference would wear the tyres or over heat them in super short time. Your decscription of ratios while turning I cant make out as feasible (Unless my interpretation is up the duff) as when you turn in the dirt you will see that indeed the rears can travel less distance but due to the front AND rear having centre differentials that slip for loading purposes (and its the centre diff or transfer case thats locked at 1:1) the load is shed evenly around the four wheels. My concerns are for straight line travel with even slightly different diff ratios. Am I incorrect, please correct me if I am. Scotty >>>>> Alan, to remove and reinstall a diff centre you will need to remove >>>>> tail shaft and axels. Then the centre should unbolt and pull out. If [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > Am I incorrect, please correct me if I am. What you say is accurate. But, your error is that you might use 4WD on the road. Severe transfer case damage can result from using 4WD on the road because there is too much friction with the tires to allow the stress you are describing from being released. This is a particular problem with chain driven transfer cases. There are two types of 4WD, Part Time and Full Time. Full time systems have a differential (centerj diff) built into the tcase, and the 0.01 difference between front and rear is not a problem on the street. Part time systems haven't got the center diff, and the speed differences that result from the various angles involved in a turn will be a problem for these systems without regard to the straight line difference that arise out of the 4.10 and 4.11 ratios. Changing lanes can make the stress created by the 0.01 difference, so this illustrates that using 4WD on the street is not a good idea. If you feel the steering wheel wobble and fight while using 4WD on the street, this is the result of the tires giving input that should be transfered out to the ground. >> If the front end was a 3.07 and the rear was a 4.10 (for example), then >> the conditions you are warning the OP against would be true, but a 4.10 [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >often engage 4wd for safety as the manual instructs for long distances. Any >difference would wear the tyres or over heat them in super short time. You can't dissipate that much slip through tire squeal or squirm - something else will snap. If you make a habit of engaging a part-time 4WD system on clean pavement (even if it's wet) you WILL explode something to relieve that stress, the only question being what's the weakest point on your car. Front axle locking hub, a gear inside one of the differentials, a U-joint, a slip spline, a gear or the drive chain in the transfer case... >Your decscription of ratios while turning I cant make out as feasible >(Unless my interpretation is up the duff) as when you turn in the dirt you [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Am I incorrect, please correct me if I am. Part time transfer cases do not have center differentials. The front and rear axles do have differentials, but they are meant to dissipate the left/right differences /in that one axle only./ The axles can't dissipate torque that adds up as the difference in overall rotational speeds /between/ the front and rear axles - they are solidly linked together by a set of gears in the transfer case. Look at it this way - I'll make up some nice round numbers so it makes more sense. When you make a hard 180 turn the front outside and inside wheels travel 100 and 90 feet respectively, and the front diff evens that out to 95. Because the rear axle 'cheats' to the inside in a turn, the rear wheels travel 80 and 70 feet on the same curve, and the rear diff evens that out to 75. But if there is no center differential to even out the remaining 95 to 75 difference between front and rear axles, that stress will build up in the axles and driveshafts, and eventually it has to go somewhere. If the tires can't slip in mud or sand to relieve it... When driving in severe weather you are smart to engage your front hubs, that way you don't have to wade out into hip-deep mud and dig for them to do it. That's my usual practice. But DO NOT take that final step and engage the transfer case into 4WD on the paved highway AT ANY TIME unless you are actually in trouble (as in having slid off onto a soft muddy shoulder and need to extract yourself) or the trouble you end up in will be entirely of your own making. --<< Bruce >>-- >>> If the front end was a 3.07 and the rear was a 4.10 (for example), then >>> the conditions you are warning the OP against would be true, but a 4.10 [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > overall rotational speeds /between/ the front and rear axles - they > are solidly linked together by a set of gears in the transfer case. Or, linked by a chain and sprockets instead of by gears ... > Look at it this way - I'll make up some nice round numbers so it > makes more sense. When you make a hard 180 turn the front outside and [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > --<< Bruce >>-- Bruce et. al., Thanks for the educational information ! As someone who has never owned a 4WD vehicle before, your comments have been informative. I bought a new 4WD Tundra in 2004. After having driven it to the grocery store (in 4WD), I noticed it was very difficult to turn into the parking space <he said, sheepishly....> I thought something must be wrong until I did a little research and learned to NOT do that anymore ! Fortunately, I didn't blow anything up, but I now know that the tire "slip" is essential, and I only use 4WD in the ice/snow when I know the stresses can be relieved. They probably ought to offer a course for 4WD "newbies" on what the system can and cannot do before they let us behind the wheel <g> ! I see a lot of people in the ditch on crappy days that probably overestimated just what their trucks can do...I understand another common misconception is that 4 WD somehow makes you "brake/stop faster" <g> I've always had 1 question, though : the maintenance manual says you should engage the 4WD system every so often to keep the diff oil circulating and the diff lubricated. I have a long stretch of straight, 2 lane highway on my commute....once a month, I kick in the 4WD on this stretch....no turns, no lane changes, etc. Does this do any harm (or really any good) ?? I kick it back down to 2WD when I approach the highway turn-off. Comments/opinions welcome....just don't flame me for being an idiot <g> ! Dean..... > >> If the front end was a 3.07 and the rear was a 4.10 (for example), then > >> the conditions you are warning the OP against would be true, but a 4.10 [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > > --<< Bruce >>-- > Bruce et. al., > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > grocery store (in 4WD), I noticed it was very difficult to turn into the > parking space <he said, sheepishly....> That is the result of the tires all going different distances, and not slipping on the ground to release the stress. If you really pay attention in these instances, you will actually feel the vehicle buck and jump, and the hear the tires chirp as the drive train objects to the treatment you are giving it. I thought something must be > wrong until I did a little research and learned to NOT do that anymore > ! Fortunately, I didn't blow anything up, but I now know that the tire [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > another common misconception is that 4 WD somehow makes you "brake/stop > faster" <g> The only benefit of 4WD in those conditions is added traction and steering control that comes from driving both axles instead of only one. You are 100% correct that stopping faster is a misconception. And, the steering benefits only come if the speed is reduced to an appropriate level considering the conditions. > I've always had 1 question, though : the maintenance manual says you > should engage the 4WD system every so often to keep the diff oil [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > really any good) ?? I kick it back down to 2WD when I approach the > highway turn-off. It does more harm than good. You should never use your 4WD system unless the tires can slip on the ground and release the stresses that build up in the tcase. You should seek out a dirt road where you can put your dog out to run, and use the 4WD there for a while ... <snip> > It does more harm than good. You should never use your 4WD system unless the > tires can slip on the ground and release the stresses that build up in the > tcase. > > You should seek out a dirt road where you can put your dog out to run, and > use the 4WD there for a while ... My logic, though, is that on this particular stretch of highway, the tires and system are only tracking straight...no stress to build up and release, unless there is another component of 4 WD I still don't understand ! The dogs are highly in favor of your suggestion ! Thanks for the input Dean.... > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Dean.... Your logic is flawed. The flaw arises out of the fact that the rear end is likely to be geared with 10 teeth on the pinion gear and 41 on the ring gear (4.10 : 1) and the front is likely to be geared with 9 and 37, respectively (giving you 4.11 : 1). So, your straight line travel can result in significant stress on the tcase. Inflation of the tires can give a 0.01 difference in the front and rear tires. Take the dog for a run ... Good luck. PS I'm not sure what the actual ratios are in your truck, but I just wanted to illustrate that the front and rear can easily be different by a couple of hundreths. > > <snip> > > [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > illustrate that the front and rear can easily be different by a couple of > hundreths. Jeff, I will accept your assessment that my logic is flawed <g> and find a nice dirt road to "lube" my transmission and run the dogs ! I'm a highway engineer, and I understand the differences in wheel tracking between front and rear wheels....we use "design vehicles" when designing highway curves, intersection radii, etc, and we use skid resistance values when analyzing crashs, skid marks, etc. When you get in to transmission gear ratios, though, you're going over my head <g> My inquiring mind wonders, then, why manufacturers design a vehicle with different gear ratios between the front and rear axles if this can be a potential source of problems ? Just a rhetorical question....thanks again for your comments ! Dean.... > Jeff, > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Dean.... You're welcome. Part of the reason is that the front and rear differentials (the source of the gear ratio calculations comes from the diffs, not the transmission, by the way) are physically different sizes, so they take a different diameter Ring Gear that mathematically works out to a different number of teeth. To calculate the ratio, one simply divides the tooth count of the ring gear by the tooth count of the pinion gear, the result is the differential ratio. You are right, it would be ideal if the ratios front and rear were the same, and in an AWD (all wheel drive) system, they always will be because of the very issues you are talking about. Having said that, as soon as you put the vehicle into 4WD and attempt to negotiate a turn, the radius of the arc that the front and rear tires follow will cause the ratios to effectively become different, causing stress on the tcase if the vehicle is one with part time 4WD. In a Part time system, they might not give you the same gear ratios front and rear, which is why part time systems are meant to only be operated in the dirt. The idea is that the tires need to slip against the ground to prevent the differences in the distance/speed/ratios from damaging the transfer case internals. If the transfer case is of the type that has a diffferential built in (this is typically accomplished with a viscous coupler), then the speed difference between the front and rear can be disipated without relying on the tires to slip on the ground. > > Jeff, > > [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > coupler), then the speed difference between the front and rear can be > disipated without relying on the tires to slip on the ground. Jeff, I recognized my ignorance on 4 WD systems....that's why I got hosed by the dealer and bought the extended warranty....figured if I screwed the 4 WD system up, at least I'd have some sort of protection ! <Okay, okay...y'all don't flame me for THAT one, either....I've been lurking here long enough to know about the general NG opinion on factory extended warranties <g>) Guess I should've gone with one of those idiot-proof, "girlie" AWD systems that you descibe, but damn, I LOVE my Tundra <g> ! Dean.... > Jeff, > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Dean.... I think you bought the right truck and the right 4WD system, you just have to learn how and when you can use it without blowing it apart. >Bruce et. al., > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >another common misconception is that 4 WD somehow makes you "brake/stop >faster" <g> The truth is, if you don't know how to drive it right 4WD will just get you into the ditch and/or turned turtle a lot faster. If it's raining or you /may/ get into a sticky situation you lock the hubs before you're up to your a.s in alligators. But you don't engage the 4WD until you actually need it. >I've always had 1 question, though : the maintenance manual says you >should engage the 4WD system every so often to keep the diff oil [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Comments/opinions welcome....just don't flame me for being an idiot <g> The only dumb questions are the ones you don't ask. You can do the same thing in two stages - just not both at once. First, engage the front hubs and drive around a while to work the front differential, then open the hubs and engage the 4WD in the transfer case and drive a few more miles. Gets everything moving and lubing just the same. --<< Bruce >>-- > then open the hubs and engage the 4WD in the > transfer case and drive a few more miles. Gets everything moving and > lubing just the same. '04 Tundras have manually locking hubs? <snip> > You can do the same thing in two stages - just not both at once. > First, engage the front hubs and drive around a while to work the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > --<< Bruce >>-- Thanks, Bruce....as the other poster noted, the 04 Tundra does not have "locking hubs"....just a set of push buttons on the dash <g> Any other suggestions for this case ? Dean.... >> You can do the same thing in two stages - just not both at once. >> First, engage the front hubs and drive around a while to work the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >"locking hubs"....just a set of push buttons on the dash <g> Any other >suggestions for this case ? Oh, one of those all-auto setups, never did like those - KISS principle, the less fancy stuff there is to break the better... Go find a local dirt road and make a point of driving it once in a while, they're around. And as a bonus, they usually have lovely scenery. For Los Angeles we've got a long stretch of Mulholland Highway that's still dirt - runs right along the spine on the mountains between Santa Monica and the San Fernando Valley, and they keep it well graded 25' wide for the fire trucks so you don't have to dodge very many potholes or big rocks. (But you still watch for them.) --<< Bruce >>-- > >> You can do the same thing in two stages - just not both at once. > >> First, engage the front hubs and drive around a while to work the [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > --<< Bruce >>-- Bruce, Ya, it's a "lazy man's" 4 WD system....I don't even have to get my shoes dirty to switch in and out of 4 WD Hi or Lo <g> ! The manual calls it an "A.D.D."...."Automatic Disconnecting Differential". My wife, a school teacher, says "ADD" is "Attention Deficit Disorder", which is probably the correct description for the type of 4 WD system I need <g> Ahhhh....Mulholland Highway.....many years ago I was stationed at Edwards AFB in the high desert....we used to haul our horses over the pass and down to Griffith Park (sp ?) with my old Ford F-100....lucky I never killed myself, the horses, or anyone else. Nowadays, I'll have to look around for a similar road here in Maryland ! Thanks again for your valuable input ! Dean.... > Bruce et. al., > Comments/opinions welcome....just don't flame me for being an idiot <g> > ! > > Dean..... Idiots will be flamed. Asking relevent questions, as dumb as they seem, is not idiotic. Unless you ask the same question multiple times of course. Feel free to ask anything relevent to the NG. Scotty > I've always had 1 question, though : the maintenance manual says you > should engage the 4WD system every so often to keep the diff oil [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > really any good) ?? I kick it back down to 2WD when I approach the > highway turn-off. Do this in the rain on lower speed (25-35 MPH) secondary roads. On wet roads, the system will be fine with lane changes and easy turns. You can also do this is in unpaved parking lots or on grass. There is no reason a part-time 4WD truck should ever be in 4WD at highway speeds. The same manual should have mentioned a top speed for 4WD. For many vehicles, 4WD top speed can be as low as 45 MPH. You only need to activate the system for a few miles. All you're doing is moving the actuators and spinning the internals to spread lube. > Do this in the rain on lower speed (25-35 MPH) secondary roads. On wet > roads, the system will be fine with lane changes and easy turns. You [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > You only need to activate the system for a few miles. All you're doing > is moving the actuators and spinning the internals to spread lube. Thanks, Barry....I don't recall seeing a number for top speed in 4WD. I'll dig out the manual again and see what it says. Dean.... >> Do this in the rain on lower speed (25-35 MPH) secondary roads. On wet >> roads, the system will be fine with lane changes and easy turns. You [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Dean.... This thread is the most interesting I've read in a while. I have a 2007 Tacoma Access cab. The manual says 62mph is the max for engaging the high 4WD. I can't figure out why you'd want to engage at that high speed but there it is. I only engage at low speed (<20mph) and keep it on the straight. I made the mistake of making a turn into a parking space with the 4WD engaged and the crunching noise told me that was wrong.  SignatureBearman If it's got tits, tires, tubes, or transistors, it's trouble. > >> Do this in the rain on lower speed (25-35 MPH) secondary roads. On wet > >> roads, the system will be fine with lane changes and easy turns. You [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > If it's got tits, tires, tubes, or transistors, it's trouble. Bearman, I dug into my manual ('04 Tundra, also an access cab, with the V8 engine) and I'll confirm exactly what you're saying....didn't find any reference to a max speed in 4 WD, but some info on a max of 62 MPH when engaging 4 WD Hi, and some info on max speeds/red-lining the engine when using/not using overdrive, the "2" and the "L" trans settings. I can also relate to your experience with the parking space <g>....that same crunching noise I heard, and the steering wheel "hop", made me realize I needed to learn more about 4 WD...the folks in this NG have been a real help ! Based on the concensus I see developing here in this thread (at least, in response to my OP/hijack), I DO need to "lube" my tranny, but I should do it off-road. Thanks again to you all for sharing your knowledge ! Dean.... >> >> Do this in the rain on lower speed (25-35 MPH) secondary roads. On >> >> wet [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > Dean.... POINT OF ORDER ... You are not lubing the tranny, yoiu are stirring the oil in the front differential, and coating the internal parts above the oil line with oil as they spin around and dip below the oil line. Typically the differential is static, so the stuff above the oil line dries out. You are selecting 4WD to engage the front axle and move the parts around so they get a fresh coat of oil on them. > >> >> Do this in the rain on lower speed (25-35 MPH) secondary roads. On > >> >> wet [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > engage the front axle and move the parts around so they get a fresh coat of > oil on them. Jeff, Gottcha....I stand corrected....sorry to use the wrong terminolgy, but you got my drift, and I learned something. Dean.... THanks both for your input. While I realise that Im putting excess stress on the componants I only use 4wd on pavment at higher speeds and disengages it below 30mph. (50Kms in my case) The handbook actually says that I SHOULD engage 4wd while on slippery or wet roads, strange eh. Never mind, Ive learned somthig and thats pretty much why I use NGs. If I learn one thing every day I will die a wise man. (I'll still be dead though) >I need a differential for 92 4runner v6 4x4. Local to Portland, OR > metro area if possible. > > Thanks in advance, > Misty (360)521-0675 Time to chuck in a air locker. |
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