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Car Forum / Toyota / Toyota Trucks / April 2008

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08 taco

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Charles H. - 16 Apr 2008 10:45 GMT
thinking about an 08 tacoma v6 4x4 trd rugged package.

pros??
cons?
I am a die hard GM fan BUT thats fading fast, and lord forgive me for
saying this F word BUT I really dont a Ford.

so all your input would be great, no matter how small.
I would like to know about any problems, gas mileage stuff like that.
thanks again
Valued Corporate #120,345 Employee (B A R R Y) - 16 Apr 2008 12:04 GMT
>thinking about an 08 tacoma v6 4x4 trd rugged package.
>
>so all your input would be great, no matter how small.
>I would like to know about any problems, gas mileage stuff like that.
>thanks again

I've got the '05 6 speed manual version of that truck, with an Access
Cab.  Except for the TPMS and some minor details, it's the same truck.
I use my truck as a pickup truck, towing two different trailers,
carrying woodworking materials and tools, remodeling debris, outdoor
power equipment and stationary tools, bicycles, and kayaks.  MY
largest tow load has been a Volvo S80 on a 4 wheel trailer.   For
daily commuting, I ride a bicycle.  <G>   I am a cradle to grave
vehicle user, so I'm picky!  After 3+ years and 30,000 miles, I can
say the following:

The only problems I had were related to early production, including
too short cab mounts and a noisy spring.  My truck was built 3 months
into the currently body style.  All were promptly and properly
repaired under warranty, trucks built after mine include running
changes to correct the problems I had.

Cons (this took some thinking  <G>):
- In-town gas mileage has always been in the 15-16 MPG range for me.
However, I tow often, use 4WD more than most, and often carry
aerodynamically awful loads on Interstate highways.
- Only one overhead rack fits, a Thule Xsporter.
- No factory aux in on the stereo
- The tailgate is a tad flimsy
- No stake pockets
- Factory 6 disc changer is nothing to write home about.  I paid $150
for it, and got about what I paid for.   I added a $75 aux input from
Logjam Electronics for my Ipod.
- No mirror defrosters available.

Pros:
- Power of the overall package.  I've towed 5500 pounds with it, and
this is got to be the best V6 ever made.  This is a trade-off with Con
#1.  If you'll never need it...
- Tailgate is very easily removable, so you can run power equipment
ramps right to the bed
- The plastic bed is absolutely OUTSTANDING!  From the plastic
surfaces, to the tie-downs, to the sliding rails my overhead rack
mounts to...   All I can say is Bra-Vo!  I had a 250 pound rented
floor sander do a barrel roll and hit the side hard enough to break
the machine.  The only bed damage was a tiny hole.  With all my
scratches, NO RUST!  <G>
- Outstanding 4WD performance, better than my '99 Wrangler.
- I really like the TRD bucket seats.
- Lots of interior storage
- Basic maintenance, like oil and air filter changing and lube work is
very well thought out.  Look under the hood at the dealership.
- Very nice turning circle for a truck this size.
- Used versions are selling very close to what I paid new at local
dealers!
- Cruise control works nice.
- I really like the bed mounted inverter.  I use it to charge power
tools and to power my airplane's oil pan heater during winter
preflights.
- Excellent headlights
- Excellent interior control layout

Final thoughts:
- After three years, no other vehicle has made me this happy, and I've
had some very nice vehicles.  I would buy it again in a heartbeat.
- This truck would be an awful commuter vehicle.  The ride is pretty
busy with no load, and the gas mileage isn't great.  Toyota did a
great job making it great at what it does, without compromising it
into a _car_.  
- Buy the Toyota heavy rubber bed mat.  If keeps things in place in
the bed, and can be tossed over lightweight items like insulation or
yard debris.  A great accessory.
- If you put overhead racking on it.  The Toyota "flat" steps are much
more useful for loading and strapping than the more fashionable "tube"
steps, as you can more safely stand anywhere on them.
Frank Boettcher - 16 Apr 2008 14:03 GMT
>- Factory 6 disc changer is nothing to write home about.  I paid $150
>for it, and got about what I paid for.   I added a $75 aux input from
>Logjam Electronics for my Ipod.

How difficult a job was this?

Frank
Charles H. - 16 Apr 2008 23:48 GMT
thanks guys for your input.
this will be a daily driver for me doing 40 miles round trip a day.
i am going down friday to look again and tesy trive both a extended cab
and a double cab.
i now have a gmc extended cab and in the 4 yrs i have owned it, i think
maybe 6 times i have had ppl in the back.
i may just look at the reg 4x4 sr5 package.
thanks again tho.
Valued Corporate #120,345 Employee (B A R R Y) - 16 Apr 2008 23:49 GMT
>>- Factory 6 disc changer is nothing to write home about.  I paid $150
>>for it, and got about what I paid for.   I added a $75 aux input from
>>Logjam Electronics for my Ipod.
>
>How difficult a job was this?

One plug, one socket, and a plastic putty knife or cloth covered metal
putty knife.  It's cake!  No "real" electronic knowledge needed.  The
unit takes power from the radio, where it plugs into a "data" plug.

Once the unit is in, you select CD1-Track 1, with no disc in the unit,
and the aux works.

If you carefully pry the climate control knob panel off, (4) 10mm
bolts are exposed.  Remove those, and the whole stereo slides towards
you.

Knowing you background from the woodworking group, you could do it in
your sleep.
Frank Boettcher - 16 Apr 2008 14:00 GMT
>thinking about an 08 tacoma v6 4x4 trd rugged package.
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>I would like to know about any problems, gas mileage stuff like that.
>thanks again

My version is an '07 double cab, prerunner, auto,  so can't comment on
the 4WD, however, I've never been more satisfied with a vehicle.  Have
13K miles on it and has not been back to the dealer for anything (good
deal here, love the truck, hate the dealer).

Pros:

Like the sheet molded compound bed a lot.  Thought it might be a
little delicate but not so.  Agree with Barry on the need for a heavy
rubber mat or great diligence when tieing down loads that might shift.

My mileage is 20.2 charted over the entire life with 53% city driving,
and I normally get about 18.6 or so in the city.   (note:  I excluded
checking a couple of tanks when towing, my city is fairly mileage
friendly, I drive conservatively, and I have a bed cover which seems
to help marginally).  I consider this outstanding mileage for a truck
that has a tow rating of 6500 lbs., and a gross combined rating of
11,200 lbs.  Of course 4 x 4 will be less.

Cons:

even on my 07 no input for external players on the premium sound
system, maybe changed for 08.

Ergonomic body angle different from most trucks, took some getting
used to, but I'm ok with it now.

Frank
johngdole@hotmail.com - 17 Apr 2008 05:34 GMT
The Taco is a good compact truck, but the latest ones may have some
quality issues:

www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080407/BUSINESS01/8...

Toyota pickup probe pushed
Sudden acceleration claims hard to pin down
BY JUSTIN HYDE * FREE PRESS WASHINGTON STAFF * April 7, 2008

It's a wonder Frank Visconi walked away from the crash that turned his
new Toyota Tacoma pickup into an unrecognizable mush of metal, plastic
and dirt. But Visconi has a different wonder -- why Toyota doesn't
believe his complaints of sudden acceleration.

Visconi, a retired vehicle theft investigator, describes driving down
a rain-slicked freeway north of Nashville last June when he tapped the
brakes to avoid another car. Instead of slowing, he says, the engine
revved, spinning out the truck's rear wheels. The truck ran off the
road, jumped an embankment and rolled several times before coming to
rest on its side.

His crash is one of eight in a passel of 33 complaints to federal
regulators that has restarted a decades-old debate about whether
sudden acceleration claims reflect vehicle defects or mental ones. At
a customer's urging, the National Highway Traffic Safety
Administration launched an investigation into 2006 and 2007 Tacoma
pickups over sudden acceleration -- the fourth such look in three
years at Toyota models over similar complaints.

The Tacoma cases have yet to suggest a technical explanation. Over the
past eight years, the agency has closed at least six investigations
into reports of unexpected or uncontrolled acceleration in vehicles
without finding evidence of defects.

On the day of the crash, Visconi was on his way to a Toyota dealership
to have it examined for uncontrolled acceleration. Since April 2007,
he had sent letters to Toyota, dealers and his insurance company
detailing several instances where he says the engine surged when he
hit the brake, including a couple of cases where he had to mash the
pedal to keep the vehicle under control.

"Toyota has said to us they've found nothing wrong with the truck and
it's our fault," Visconi said, referring to about a dozen Tacoma
owners with similar complaints. "They're basically calling us all
stupid."

Federal officials and automakers maintain that without evidence of a
problem, the most likely answer will always be driver error. Before
last October's recall of Toyota and Lexus floor mats in Camry and ES
350 sedans, the NHTSA had triggered only two other similar recalls
since 1989.

"Sudden acceleration is a tough issue," said Ricardo Martinez, a
doctor who was the chief NHTSA administrator from 1994 to 1999. "If a
crash occurs, you always blame it on the vehicle, but most always the
investigation found that wasn't the case."

Toyota spokesman Bill Kwong says the company has found no problems
with the Tacoma that would explain the complaints.

"We don't feel it's an issue with the vehicle," he said. Regulators
"get sudden acceleration complaints from consumers for various
manufacturers ... and in most cases they have found it's a
misapplication of the pedals by the driver."

But attorneys and safety advocates argue that sudden acceleration
complaints are symptoms of defects, including electronic failures in
increasingly complex vehicle-control systems that may leave no trace
and can't be easily reproduced by a mechanic.

If there "were truly human error, there would be a proportional
distribution across models," said Clarence Ditlow, who has spent years
researching sudden acceleration as head of the Center for Auto Safety
in Washington. "It's very difficult to explain how some makes and
models have higher numbers of complaints than others absent some flaw
in the vehicle."

The NHTSA began receiving complaints about the current Tacoma and
sudden acceleration in late 2005. Some owners report trucks surging
after they put on the brakes, or while at a stoplight. Others say
their Tacoma surged while they were driving. A few said they were
barely able to control the vehicle using the brakes.

None of the complaints suggest a clear cause, and those who say
they've had their trucks inspected by a mechanic report no problems
found.

The agency did not review the complaints until it was petitioned to do
so by William Kronholm, a retired journalist in Montana. After two
incidents of uncontrolled acceleration with his 2006 Tacoma within 2
hours in January, Kronholm examined the NHTSA's online database.

Kronholm said his research showed that compared with the mass of
Tacoma complaints, including six injuries, there were only four
reports of sudden acceleration from owners of all other 2006 and 2007
pickups. His Toyota dealer found no problem, and Toyota declined to
examine the truck.

The NHTSA has examined Kronholm's truck and sent a request for data to
Toyota. The agency doesn't comment on open investigations as a matter
of practice, and Toyota says it's cooperating. The investigation is
still in its early stages, and the NHTSA would need to take several
additional steps before suggesting a recall.

But without a clear cause, a recall seems unlikely no matter how many
drivers complain. From 2004 to 2007, the NHTSA closed three separate
investigations into sudden acceleration by Toyota Camrys and Lexus
ES330 models. In each probe, many owners complained of sudden
acceleration and gave similar details.

And in each investigation, no mechanical trend was found, and the
NHTSA closed the cases because of a lack of evidence.

The last time the NHTSA fully explored the issue of sudden
acceleration complaints was in 1989, following years of dispute over
vehicles such as the Audi 5000, the poster car for the problem because
of a "60 Minutes" report in 1986.

After sorting through thousands of complaints and running its own
vehicle tests, the agency found that where there was no mechanical
evidence of a vehicle defect, "the inescapable conclusion is that
these" cases "definitely involve the driver inadvertently pressing the
accelerator instead of, or in addition to, the brake pedal."

Automakers cheered the ruling, but by that time, they had started
installing brake-shift interlocks that forced drivers to apply a brake
if they tried to put a vehicle in gear. Throughout the 1990s, the
number of sudden acceleration complaints to the NHTSA steadily
declined.

But consumer advocates and attorneys say the NHTSA closed its eyes
rather than admit the problem. Tom Murray, an Ohio attorney who
specializes in sudden acceleration cases, said automakers and the
NHTSA did not want to acknowledge other possible causes of sudden
acceleration, namely electrical interference. Murray says complaints
rose as automakers stuffed new electronics in vehicles -- and fell
after they learned how to better shield those electronics.

"NHTSA accepted" the "claim of Audi that the absence of proof is proof
of absence," Murray said. "They made one of the most colossal blunders
by saying 'We can't find a defect inside the vehicle after the fact;
it must be the driver.' "

Murray said he has seen an uptick in complaints in recent years as
more vehicles, including the Tacoma, began to use drive-by-wire
systems -- where electronics replace mechanical connections between
the pedals, engine and sometimes the brakes. He and Ditlow maintain
that the NHTSA lacks the money to track down more complex electrical
failures, especially those that might be random and leave no physical
evidence.

"I always thought that when Toyota went to drive-by-wire, the
likelihood of having sudden acceleration is going to increase," Ditlow
said. To order a recall, federal law "doesn't say you have to find a
failure mode, just a substantial number of failures."

> thinking about an 08 tacoma v6 4x4 trd rugged package.
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> I would like to know about any problems, gas mileage stuff like that.
> thanks again
B A R R Y - 17 Apr 2008 12:14 GMT
> Toyota pickup probe pushed
> Sudden acceleration claims hard to pin down

I don't think we will ever know the truth on some of those until the
NASCAR road course "foot cam" is installed in daily drivers.

Big feet or boots in a panic situation, vehicles that have ever so
slight differences in pedal placement, RF interference causing
uncommanded throttle application, distracted drivers...

Kind of like every unexplained small plane crash called pilot error.
johngdole@hotmail.com - 18 Apr 2008 02:10 GMT
The Toyota Camry/Lexus ES recall was because of an all-weather floor
mat jamming the accelerator. The Taco may or may not be the same. The
owner in the article was an investigator so he may be capable of more
than the average level of scrutiny. We'll see what the Feds say.

> I don't think we will ever know the truth on some of those until the
> NASCAR road course "foot cam" is installed in daily drivers.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Kind of like every unexplained small plane crash called pilot error.
 
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