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Car Forum / Toyota / Toyota Cars / January 2007Will Toyota ever make a station wagon again?
Wife had a Volvo station wagon and after some years she replaced it with a new Camry XLE. The XLE is great but she missed the space and function of the wagon whenever she does some major shopping. She doesn't like the mini vans or SUVs as its too big and not so good on gas. If nothing else is available it seems like she is go back for a new Volvo wagon again. Will Toyota make a Camry or Avalon wagon? It sounds like she needs a Matrix, they are easy on gas and very versatile. > Wife had a Volvo station wagon and after some years she replaced it with a > new Camry XLE. The XLE is great but she missed the space and function of the > wagon whenever she does some major shopping. She doesn't like the mini vans > or SUVs as its too big and not so good on gas. If nothing else is available > it seems like she is go back for a new Volvo wagon again. Will Toyota make a > Camry or Avalon wagon? > It sounds like she needs a Matrix, they are easy on gas and very > versatile. She would not go for the Matrix although I don't mine having one. She is too used to power everything including the power heated leather seats, premium stereo, GPS, etc. She love to have the 300hp engine that gets close to 30mpg freeway miles on the Avalon - a serious shopper who needs the speed and comfort to get to Target or Costco. >> It sounds like she needs a Matrix, they are easy on gas and very >> versatile. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > close to 30mpg freeway miles on the Avalon - a serious shopper who needs > the speed and comfort to get to Target or Costco. I hope no one gets in her way....sounds like she takes shopping way to seriously. > Wife had a Volvo station wagon and after some years she replaced it with a > new Camry XLE. The XLE is great but she missed the space and function of > the wagon whenever she does some major shopping. She doesn't like the mini > vans or SUVs as its too big and not so good on gas. If nothing else is > available it seems like she is go back for a new Volvo wagon again. Will > Toyota make a Camry or Avalon wagon? They SHOULD. My son has a 96 Camry wagon. Every 2-3 weeks, someone approaches him and asks if he wants to sell it. If it wasn't in mint condition, he probably do it, but where else would he get a replacement for $5,000.00 ? > They SHOULD. My son has a 96 Camry wagon. Every 2-3 weeks, > someone approaches him and asks if he wants to sell it. If it > wasn't in mint condition, he probably do it, but where else > would he get a replacement for $5,000.00 ? At this point, basic marketing should come into play. Suggest that he ask of any future enquirers whatever sum he would need to replace the current wagon with something that would satisfy him as much. If enquirer is prepared to pay, son is laughing.  SignatureAndrew Stephenson >> They SHOULD. My son has a 96 Camry wagon. Every 2-3 weeks, >> someone approaches him and asks if he wants to sell it. If it [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > to replace the current wagon with something that would satisfy > him as much. If enquirer is prepared to pay, son is laughing. The kid's a shark. I'll suggest it. :-) > >> They SHOULD. My son has a 96 Camry wagon. Every 2-3 weeks, > >> someone approaches him and asks if he wants to sell it. Yeah, every few months somebody will ask me if I want to sell one of my two 1981 wagons, which are in good condition but still not mint. I think, "And if I do, where will I get a replacement wagon?" The matrix is kind of wagon-ish but isn't really one. I also can't get used to the tiny hatch window when I carpool on long trips with matrix owners. >> >> They SHOULD. My son has a 96 Camry wagon. Every 2-3 weeks, >> >> someone approaches him and asks if he wants to sell it. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >used to the tiny hatch window when I carpool on long trips with matrix >owners. I never liked the styling on the Matrix. A station wagon should be an extended sedan, IMHO. My '92 Rolla Wagon looks like a wagon should. SignatureScott in Florida >>The matrix is kind of wagon-ish but isn't really one. I also can't get >>used to the tiny hatch window when I carpool on long trips with matrix [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > My '92 Rolla Wagon looks like a wagon should. I always wanted a MAtrix wagon, but you can only get one made in Canada. Why do I like Toyotas, again? >>>The matrix is kind of wagon-ish but isn't really one. I also can't get >>>used to the tiny hatch window when I carpool on long trips with matrix [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Why do I like Toyotas, again? Because they rawk harder than Led Zeppelin? Natalie >>>>The matrix is kind of wagon-ish but isn't really one. I also can't get >>>>used to the tiny hatch window when I carpool on long trips with matrix [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Natalie I wasn't that big a Led Zeppelin fan!!! "Hachiroku ????" , Wickeddoll® wrote: >> "Hachiroku ????" , Scott in Florida wrote: >>>>>The matrix is kind of wagon-ish but isn't really one. I also can't get >>>>>used to the tiny hatch window when I carpool on long trips with matrix [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > I wasn't that big a Led Zeppelin fan!!! OK, how about Metallica? :-P Natalie > "Hachiroku ????" > , Wickeddoll® wrote: [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Natalie You'd have to go back to Lynyrd Skynyrd, or move up to Alice in Chains... Or maybe Pearl Jam... "Hachiroku ????" <: >> "Hachiroku ????" >> , Wickeddoll® wrote: [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Or maybe Pearl Jam... You wimp. Natalie >> You'd have to go back to Lynyrd Skynyrd, or move up to Alice in >> Chains... [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Natalie A lot of "classic rock" has all started to sound the same to me. Besides, I've been playing it since it was new. Time to move on... > My '92 Rolla Wagon looks like a wagon should. Is this a Rolls Royce, a play on Volvo which means "I roll" in Latin, or an abbreviation of (co)Rolla? If the first, I didn't know Rolls Royce made a station wagon. If so, I'm sure it sux worse than the Mercedes wagon. >> My '92 Rolla Wagon looks like a wagon should. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > If the first, I didn't know Rolls Royce made a station wagon. If so, > I'm sure it sux worse than the Mercedes wagon. I knew people that thought Volvo was part of a woman's anatomy . . . . Charles of Schaumburg You should try associating with better educated people. But then someone who says "people that thought" is probably doing as well as he can. Jack G. > I knew people that thought Volvo was part of a woman's anatomy . . . . > > Charles of Schaumburg > You should try associating with better educated people. But then someone > who says "people that thought" is probably doing as well as he can. > > Jack G. I had the misfortune of living in Arkansas while the LIEberal Left's hero who didn't know what the meaning of is was, was Governor. Charles of Schaumburg Home of Barack Hussein Obama and Dick Durbin. Both aspire to be like a Kennedy. Obama wants to be the next Jack and Durbin wants to be the next Teddy, but he hasn't passed the Kennedy Driving Test yet. "Limnos" <... >> "Andrew Stephenson" > >> > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > used to the tiny hatch window when I carpool on long trips with matrix > owners. My husband's xA looks quite similar to the Matrix, but of course lacks the testicular fortitude of that car. I really don't need a wagon now (my kids are no longer small), so I'm not in the market for one, but when they were little, the wagons were gone, except the Camry, which I couldn't afford at the time. Natalie > Wife had a Volvo station wagon and after some years she replaced it with a > new Camry XLE. The XLE is great but she missed the space and function of the > wagon whenever she does some major shopping. She doesn't like the mini vans > or SUVs as its too big and not so good on gas. If nothing else is available > it seems like she is go back for a new Volvo wagon again. Will Toyota make a > Camry or Avalon wagon? They do make a Camry wagon. It's called the Highlander. We had a Volvo Cross Country (AWD) Wagon which we replaced with a Toyota Highlander AWD V6 Limited because My wife wanted something that would put her a little higher for better visibility. The amenities in the Toyota are as good as the Volvo, the ride is as comfortable, and the mileage is the same. The Volvo did handle a little better but visibility from the Highlander is much better. And yes, the Highlander is a Camry Wagon. Jack G. >Wife had a Volvo station wagon and after some years she replaced it with a >new Camry XLE. The XLE is great but she missed the space and function of the >wagon whenever she does some major shopping. She doesn't like the mini vans >or SUVs as its too big and not so good on gas. If nothing else is available >it seems like she is go back for a new Volvo wagon again. Will Toyota make a >Camry or Avalon wagon? That is why I continue to drive my cherry '92 Corolla Wagon.... SignatureScott in Florida >That is why I continue to drive my cherry '92 Corolla Wagon.... would love to have that car! >>That is why I continue to drive my cherry '92 Corolla Wagon.... > >would love to have that car! Maybe in ten years....LOL SignatureScott in Florida Toyota still builds station wagons, they just don't call anything they sell in the US a wagon. In the UK, they sell a "5 Door Estate." In the US this would be a station wagon. See http://www.toyota.co.uk/vs2/pdf/CO6_69_over.pdf . What is the Matrix if it isn't a station wagon? It might be a poorly designed station wagon, but if you had sold something like that 20 years ago, it would have been called a station wagon. How about the Highlander, or the RAV4? In 1980, they would have been classed as station wagons. I don't think anyone seriously considers these things SUVs. For that matter, what is a 4Runner, but a really poorly design station wagon? I suppose you could call it an SUV, but it a poor one of those too. Car manufacturers don't want to call anything a "Station Wagon," since that has negative connotations these days. And now, they don't want to call vehicles mini-vans either. So now we have crossovers. I wonder how long it will be before that term is as out of favor as "station wagon?" But really, Camry's, RAV4s, Highlanders, and Sienna all share many basic components. Toyota might not admit it, but both the Highlander and RAV4 are just disguised Camry Wagons. Ed >>>That is why I continue to drive my cherry '92 Corolla Wagon.... >> >>would love to have that car! > > Maybe in ten years....LOL > Toyota still builds station wagons, they just don't call anything they > sell in the US a wagon. In the UK, they sell a "5 Door Estate." In the US [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Ed They sure look like SUVs to me. A wagon doesn't sit nearly as high up as the average SUV. I used to drive a (total POS Subaru Loyale). I think I know what a wagon looks like... Natalie >>>>That is why I continue to drive my cherry '92 Corolla Wagon.... >>> >>>would love to have that car! >> >> Maybe in ten years....LOL >> Toyota still builds station wagons, they just don't call anything they >> sell in the US a wagon. In the UK, they sell a "5 Door Estate." In the US [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] >>> >>> Maybe in ten years....LOL Before I was six we used to have a Plymouth Belvedere station wagon in that wierd 1955 blue green. Charles of Schaumburg > They sure look like SUVs to me. A wagon doesn't sit nearly as high up as > the average SUV. I used to drive a (total POS Subaru Loyale). I think I > know what a wagon looks like... So what makes something an SUV as opposed to a station wagon? An SUV should have decent towing capacity, RAV4s and Highlanders have a 35000 lb max (when properly equipped). "Real" SUVs should be able to tow much more than this. An SUV should have decent off-road ability. Who in there right mind would drive a RAV4 or a Highlander on anything more difficult that beach sand? Jacking up a station wagon and calling it an SUV might make marketing sense, but it hardly makes it an SUV. And a Matrix is not particularly high. Nor is a RAV4. Highlanders are taller, but why? They still have the ground clearance of a Camry. No ground clearance, minimal towing ability, minimal off road ability does not make a station wagon an SUV no matter how high they raise the roof. It is not just Toyota that is labeling station wagons as SUVs or Crossovers - what is a Chrysler Pacifica or a Ford Freestyle if they aren't really Station Wagons? What is a Dodge Magnum if not a poorly designed station wagon? BTW - when I was young my family owned nothing but station wagons. Ed >> They sure look like SUVs to me. A wagon doesn't sit nearly as high up as >> the average SUV. I used to drive a (total POS Subaru Loyale). I think I >> know what a wagon looks like... > > So what makes something an SUV as opposed to a station wagon? Advertising. IMHO A decent station wagon should either be RWD or AWD. Too much weight in the cargo area, is not a good scenario. Minivans, SUVs, Crossover UVs, are weight distributed. FWDs with heavy cargo will have too much wheel spin and torque will be lost. > >> They sure look like SUVs to me. A wagon doesn't sit nearly as high up as > >> the average SUV. I used to drive a (total POS Subaru Loyale). I think I > >> know what a wagon looks like... > > > So what makes something an SUV as opposed to a station wagon?Advertising. >IMHO A decent station wagon should either be RWD or AWD. Too much >weight in the cargo area, is not a good scenario. Minivans, SUVs, >Crossover UVs, are weight distributed. FWDs with heavy cargo will have >too much wheel spin and torque will be lost. I think you are mistaken. My '92 Corolla FWD wagon puts cargo over the real wheels and the engine/transmission weight over the driving wheels. Works great! >> >> They sure look like SUVs to me. A wagon doesn't sit nearly as high up as >> >> the average SUV. I used to drive a (total POS Subaru Loyale). I think I >> >> know what a wagon looks like... >> >> > So what makes something an SUV as opposed to a station wagon?Advertising. SignatureScott in Florida I think this is more of an issue when you are towing a heavy trailer or one in which the weight is poorly distributed and is very tongue-heavy. Front wheel drives tend to struggle when the front end is made "lighter" by a heavy weight behind the rear wheels helping lift the front wheels off the ground, causing them to lose traction on a slick boat ramp, etc. Intelligent users understand and can avoid these situations, of course that's asking a lot of many people. > >IMHO A decent station wagon should either be RWD or AWD. Too much > >weight in the cargo area, is not a good scenario. Minivans, SUVs, [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >> > >> > So what makes something an SUV as opposed to a station wagon?Advertising. IMHO A decent station wagon should either be RWD or AWD. Too much weight in the cargo area, is not a good scenario. Minivans, SUVs, Crossover UVs, are weight distributed. FWDs with heavy cargo will have too much wheel spin and torque will be lost. When I was in between trucks I use my wife's Volvo station wagon to hall concrete - about 1,200 lbs. It was way over the limit but ok for short trips. Since than I got her a new top of the line Camry but its too bad the Camry couldn't hall with a damn. A Camry wagon would have been nice. >> They sure look like SUVs to me. A wagon doesn't sit nearly as high up as >> the average SUV. I used to drive a (total POS Subaru Loyale). I think I [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Ed Anything that can tow "much more" than 3500 lbs will be something most sane people don't want, unless they have an actual need to tow that much, which most people don't. With that sort of logic, everyone should buy a huge pickup with 5th wheel, just in case they decide to buy a horse farm. > Anything that can tow "much more" than 3500 lbs will be something most > sane people don't want, unless they have an actual need to tow that much, > which most people don't. With that sort of logic, everyone should buy a > huge pickup with 5th wheel, just in case they decide to buy a horse farm. I was not arguing that people need vehicles that can tow more than 3500 lbs. I was just arguing that vehicles that have minimal towing capacity aren't SUVs - at least SUVs as originally produced (original Blazer, Full Size Broncos, etc). BTW when I was young, many full size US cars could tow a lot more than 3500 lbs. Ed >> Anything that can tow "much more" than 3500 lbs will be something most >> sane people don't want, unless they have an actual need to tow that much, [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Ed Damn. You must be REALLY old. :) >>> Anything that can tow "much more" than 3500 lbs will be something most >>> sane people don't want, unless they have an actual need to tow that [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Damn. You must be REALLY old. :) And feeling older all the time. The first new car I drove was a 1964 Ford Fairlane (I was only 11 though). It was my Grandfather's car. I'd knew how to drive farm tractors, but had never driven a car. My Grandfather gave me the keys and told me to go practice (we were on a farm with lots of room). It was a Fairlane 500 4 door with a 260 V-8. The only option besides the engine was a heater. It was a three on the tree with ruber floor mats. I loved the car. At that time it was an intermediate car, but by today's standards it was huge. You could actually fit 6 adults in the car. My parents also had a 1964 Fairlane 500 Station Wagon. It had a few more options - 2 speed automatic, a radio, and actual carpet. We used to drive that car to vist relatives with 3 kids, and three adults. Imagine drivng around in NC in August with all the windows closed (my Grandmother didn't want the wind to mess up her hair) with no AC and parents that smoked.....Not exactly the good old days. It was a great car. My parent were building a house at the time and they were constatnly hauling buiding supplies back from Norfolk, Va (60 miles away). More than once they hauled so much back that the car was almost on the spring bumbers. I can't imagine how that two speed transmission held up. Ed >> They sure look like SUVs to me. A wagon doesn't sit nearly as high up as >> the average SUV. I used to drive a (total POS Subaru Loyale). I think I [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Ed For one thing, SUVs are supposed to be able to go off-road, much like trucks. I wouldn't try that with a Camry wagon Natalie <snipped> > For one thing, SUVs are supposed to be able to go off-road, much like > trucks. I wouldn't try that with a Camry wagon > > Natalie I remember driving in a state park on a muddy fire road after some heavy rains. There were a bunch of guys in "real" SUV's (Broncos, Jeep CJ's, full-size Blazers, etc.) and trucks with the big tires, lift kits, and winches out playing in the mud. There were several sections where they had to winch each other out, and they all did a double-take when I passed them up in my Camry sedan. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) > <snipped> >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > had to winch each other out, and they all did a double-take when I passed > them up in my Camry sedan. Reminds me of that old song "Beep Beep" with the souped-up Nash Rambler smoking that Cadillac. :-) Natalie >For one thing, SUVs are supposed to be able to go off-road, much like >trucks. I wouldn't try that with a Camry wagon > >Natalie SUV's go off road every time it rains or snows...... My little Corolla Wagon stays on the road..... SignatureScott in Florida >>For one thing, SUVs are supposed to be able to go off-road, much like >>trucks. I wouldn't try that with a Camry wagon [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > My little Corolla Wagon stays on the road..... LOL actually, I think that's usually driver overconfidence. I saw so many trucks, vans, and SUVs on the sides of the roads during the winters in NH. "I can do anything! I have a big vehicle!" Uh-huh. Natalie >>>For one thing, SUVs are supposed to be able to go off-road, much like >>>trucks. I wouldn't try that with a Camry wagon [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Natalie Here, we call that evolution, especially when it works in an absolute way. I wonder how many people are buried with cell phones embedded in their faces. My neighbor's a mortician. I'll ask him. "JoeSpareBedroom" ... > "Wickeddoll®"... >> >> "Scott in Florida" ... wrote: >>>>For one thing, SUVs are supposed to be able to go off-road, much like >>>>trucks. I wouldn't try that with a Camry wagon [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > I wonder how many people are buried with cell phones embedded in their > faces. My neighbor's a mortician. I'll ask him. Just today, in pouring, cold, rain, I saw idjits (in all types of vehicles) swooping around on the highway. Why don't the brain donors realize that you can drive as fast as you'd like on slippery roads, but you cannot stop?! Here in NC, the roads get slick enough from pouring rain to make my Echo fish-tail, so I drive as though I'm driving in snow/ice. They should too. You can call it evolution, but these f*ckwits take innocent people with them to oblivion. But regarding cell phones...don't get me started. Natalie > "JoeSpareBedroom" ... >> "Wickeddoll®"... [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > Natalie My son started driving last year. You should hear what HE thinks the penalties should be for using cell phones in cars. No violence, but something very annoying, embarrassing and inconvenient for the perpetrators. "JoeSpareBedroom" .. > "Wickeddoll®" ... >> [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > something very annoying, embarrassing and inconvenient for the > perpetrators. WHAT?! Don't leave us hanging. :-P Natalie > "JoeSpareBedroom" .. >> "Wickeddoll®" ... [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > Natalie Take driver's keys. Leave driver in car. Keys and cell phone will be forwarded to the appropriate traffic court. Driver is allowed one phone call, to contact tow truck or whatever. In winter, officer will place criminal in back of police car to stay warm until tow truck arrives. "JoeSpareBedroom" >>>>>> "Scott in Florida" ... >>>> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > call, to contact tow truck or whatever. In winter, officer will place > criminal in back of police car to stay warm until tow truck arrives. DAYUM. I say just take the phone. Natalie > "JoeSpareBedroom" >>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > > Natalie No. People will just go buy another. They need to be SEVERELY embarrassed and inconvenienced. We treat bad drivers like kids who spill milk. How is a person using a cell phone in the car so different from someone who blows .24 on a breathalyzer? Not that much different. "JoeSpareBedroom" ... > "Wickeddoll®" ... >> [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] > a person using a cell phone in the car so different from someone who blows > .24 on a breathalyzer? Not that much different. Hmmm I can't imagine something like this passing, but unfortunately, they don't always yank the license on drunks right away, either. I think it's a good idea to make cell phone use while driving a ticketable offense, but your son's suggestion seems extreme, especially if the phone is hands-free. Natalie > "JoeSpareBedroom" ... >> "Wickeddoll®" ... [quoted text clipped - 79 lines] > > Natalie Just after NY passed its no cell phone law (toothless, by the way), a researcher at Columbia U. did an interesting experiment. He put people in front of some sort of screens with controls which tested reaction time. Then, he put headsets on them and had conversations with them. Result: Simply BEING in a conversation was enough to cause serious distraction in his test subjects. Women fared somewhat worse than men. The reporter asked why you can have a conversation with a passenger and not have the same problems. The explanation made sense: A passenger has visual cues, and will pause the conversation (except for my mother-in-law). Someone on the phone has no idea what's going on in your car. "JoeSpareBedroom" ... > "Wickeddoll®" ... >>>>>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 88 lines] > will pause the conversation (except for my mother-in-law). Someone on the > phone has no idea what's going on in your car. Wow - well, I don't chat on my phone while driving, anyway. I pull over if it's my husband or kids call, because they rarely call me on my cell, unless it's important. Natalie <snipped> > My son started driving last year. You should hear what HE thinks the > penalties should be for using cell phones in cars. No violence, but > something very annoying, embarrassing and inconvenient for the > perpetrators. We've told our 3 younger kids not to use cell phones while driving, and the only downside that I've found to that rule is that they have a convenient excuse not to answer when we call - "I didn't want to answer while I was driving." I guess I can live with that as long as they continue to call back within a few minutes. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) > "JoeSpareBedroom"... > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > while I was driving." I guess I can live with that as long as they > continue to call back within a few minutes. Three younger kid? How many younguns do you have, dude? LOL My daughter turns her phone on "silent" because it saves her battery, but if I call, she's to call back within a half hour, or she's grounded. Natalie >> "JoeSpareBedroom"... >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Natalie 3 younguns + 1 old and married #2 son is 20, #3 son is 18, the princess is 16, and the old one is 31. The old one didn't get a cell phone because they weren't teenage "gotta-haves" 15 years ago. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) "JoeSpareBedroom" ... > "Wickeddoll®">>>>> *snip* Here's a relevant cartoon: http://www.cagle.com/working/070117/crowson.jpg >> Here in NC, the roads get slick enough from pouring rain to make my Echo >> fish-tail, so I drive as though I'm driving in snow/ice. They should [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > something very annoying, embarrassing and inconvenient for the > perpetrators. >>>For one thing, SUVs are supposed to be able to go off-road, much like >>>trucks. I wouldn't try that with a Camry wagon [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Natalie In the mean time, I have to play "Dodge the idiots" with my Corolla. Thank God it has a low center of mass and I try to drive sensibly, usually no sudden manovers to break my tractive lock on the road. If people want me to drive faster on slick roads, there's usually a passing lane somewhere. If I feel the road getting slicker, I back off a bit. "Ye canna break the laws of physics, Jim." I've been very fortunate and had very few accidents in over 30 years of driving. But I find myself gettng nervous when someone looks like he's expecting to pull right out in front of me when I know stopping is going to be marginal at best. Charles of Schaumburg >>>>For one thing, SUVs are supposed to be able to go off-road, much like >>>>trucks. I wouldn't try that with a Camry wagon [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Charles of Schaumburg Yeah...same here. If the cops wanted to, they could write so many tickets for the general "reckless driving" category, the revenue would eliminate the need for school taxes. Of course, the cops themselves drive like a.sholes. With my son in the car, my ex got a ticket for failure to signal a lane change last year. He said there were about 3 cars in a one mile stretch of road: His mother, some other car, and the cop. Then, yesterday, he and I got on the highway right behind a NY State Trooper. He didn't signal his merge onto the highway. He changed lanes 3 times without signalling. Then, he got off the next exit without signalling. "JoeSpareBedroom".. > "n5hsr" ... >> "Wickeddoll®" ... [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > signal his merge onto the highway. He changed lanes 3 times without > signalling. Then, he got off the next exit without signalling. Oh whenever I see a cop on the road, I do my best to drive behind him. I pace him for as long as I can follow him, because they usually drive way faster than most folks would in their presence. I pace the cop, then everyone around me paces both of us. It's a hoot. You see them slow down at first, then realize what I'm doing, an fall in place. I don't follow them in bad weather though - their driving is scary! Regarding the idjits who think SUVs are invincible: http://www.fayobserver.com/article?id=252275 Scroll down to the picture - look at the overturned vehicle! Natalie, rolling her eyes > "JoeSpareBedroom".. >> "n5hsr" ... [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > > Natalie, rolling her eyes Yeah, SUVs are safer. :) "JoeSpareBedroom" ... > "Wickeddoll®" ... >> >>> "n5hsr" ... ... >>>>> "Scott in Florida" >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > > Yeah, SUVs are safer. :) Actually, they probably are...if they don't have a pinhead behind the wheel. Though I don't like the center of gravity of them. I would think you'd have way more maneuvering problems. Natalie > Oh whenever I see a cop on the road, I do my best to drive behind him. I > pace him for as long as I can follow him, because they usually drive way [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Natalie, rolling her eyes And yet the injury loss rating for most large SUVs is far lower than it is for most cars of any type. Ed >> Oh whenever I see a cop on the road, I do my best to drive behind him. I >> pace him for as long as I can follow him, because they usually drive way [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Ed We'd probably need to know how the numbers break down for various types of accidents. Otherwise, the general statement isn't of much value. >> Oh whenever I see a cop on the road, I do my best to drive behind him. I >> pace him for as long as I can follow him, because they usually drive way [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Ed The one pictured is not a large one, for one. Two, common sense says a larger vehicle will be better protection, but that wasn't the issue. The issue is that people get overconfident in those things. Natalie >Oh whenever I see a cop on the road, I do my best to drive behind him. I >pace him for as long as I can follow him, because they usually drive way [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >I don't follow them in bad weather though - their driving is scary! Hate to be the one to break this to ya doll, but there's only one reason you're getting away with that - Okay, *two* reasons... -_- They can watch you in the mirror 'pacing' them at 75 plus, and quite easily move over, drop back behind you, and switch on the red lights. <'Dragnet' theme sting: Dun da dun dun!> They have a calibrated speedometer, they don't have to be behind you to pace and issue the ticket. You can follow them at a bit over the posted limit, but don't go over the de-facto 'fudge factor' which is usually 5 to 10 over the posted limit - and that's only when you know the calibration of your speedo is right. If he's pushing it past that, let the cop pull slowly ahead if he's in such a rush. --<< Bruce >>-- >>Oh whenever I see a cop on the road, I do my best to drive behind him. I >>pace him for as long as I can follow him, because they usually drive way [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > --<< Bruce >>-- Oh I never go more than 10 over, and when I'm pacing them, neither do the cops. When I'm *not* pacing them, they go much faster. Most people don't know that emergency vehicles are not allowed to exceed the speed limit at all, unless it's a cop in pursuit of a perp. Technically, that is. Reality is way different. When I worked ambulance crew, we quite often got police escort a whatever speed we were going. Everyone empathizes with the patient, and want to see them get to the hospital ASAP. Natalie >When I worked ambulance crew, we quite often got police escort a whatever >speed we were going. Everyone empathizes with the patient, and want to see >them get to the hospital ASAP. Why did I just have a flashback to "Mother Jugs and Speed"? Oh, and "Are you deeply religious?" ;-P --<< Bruce >>-- "Bruce L. Bergman" ... "Wickeddoll®" >>When I worked ambulance crew, we quite often got police escort a whatever >>speed we were going. Everyone empathizes with the patient, and want to >>see >>them get to the hospital ASAP. > > Why did I just have a flashback to "Mother Jugs and Speed"? Dunno - never saw that one, but *fwap* anyway. > Oh, and "Are you deeply religious?" ;-P > > --<< Bruce >>-- Who wants to know? :-P Natalie > For one thing, SUVs are supposed to be able to go off-road, > much like trucks. I wouldn't try that with a Camry wagon Ha ha ha! Guess you've never gone offroad in a Ford Explorer. The first incarnation was called Exploder for a good reason! When making a stream crossing, if the water was more than about 1' deep, it could enter the intake manifold, which the brilliant Detroit engineers had placed near the base of the engine. This would often crack (explode) the engine block. Excitement!! "Wickeddoll®" <wickeddoll1958diespammersdie@yahoo.com> wrote: > For one thing, SUVs are supposed to be able to go off-road, > much like trucks. I wouldn't try that with a Camry wagon Ha ha ha! Guess you've never gone offroad in a Ford Explorer. The first incarnation was called Exploder for a good reason! When making a stream crossing, if the water was more than about 1' deep, it could enter the intake manifold, which the brilliant Detroit engineers had placed near the base of the engine. This would often crack (explode) the engine block. Excitement!! Oh for crying out loud. How dumb is that? Natalie "Wickeddoll®" <wickeddoll1958diespammersdie@yahoo.com> wrote: > For one thing, SUVs are supposed to be able to go off-road, > much like trucks. I wouldn't try that with a Camry wagon Ha ha ha! Guess you've never gone offroad in a Ford Explorer. The first incarnation was called Exploder for a good reason! When making a stream crossing, if the water was more than about 1' deep, it could enter the intake manifold, which the brilliant Detroit engineers had placed near the base of the engine. This would often crack (explode) the engine block. Excitement!! I take it you have never actually looked under the hood of a first generation Explorer. If you had, you'd know this wasn't true. The air intake is at the top of the fender. I suppose they could have added a stack out of the hood. Now go look at a 4Ruunner form the same era. Guess where it's air intake is. Yep. Ed >> For one thing, SUVs are supposed to be able to go off-road, >> much like trucks. I wouldn't try that with a Camry wagon [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >brilliant Detroit engineers had placed near the base of the engine. >This would often crack (explode) the engine block. Excitement!! Never saw anyone hydrolock one like you describe, but did have a lot of practical off-roading experience with a Rescue Team watching people driving Exploders having other mechanical and electronic breakdowns in the middle of nowhere. (Just the thought of a $200+ Offroad Recovery Tow bill... Yikes. We'd hook up a snatch strap and pull them back to town - or at least back to the highway to meet AAA.) Just having the Rollover Switch trigger at the worst possible moment can be enough to ruin your whole day. As the engine dies and you slide back into the mud bog you thought you could easily clear... Whenever we had a "Wilderness Hoodside Conference" it was rarely at the hood of a Toyota - which is why I bought the Land Cruiser. --<< Bruce >>-- >>> For one thing, SUVs are supposed to be able to go off-road, >>> much like trucks. I wouldn't try that with a Camry wagon [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > --<< Bruce >>-- I had a friend who had a Chrysler Sebring Convertible. Tried going through one of Chicago's infamous flooded viaducts after a rainstorm. Guess where the air intake is, for real, on the Chrylser? Guess who had a ruined engine? Charles of Schaumburg >>Ha ha ha! Guess you've never gone offroad in a Ford Explorer. >>The first incarnation was called Exploder for a good reason! [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > driving Exploders having other mechanical and electronic breakdowns in > the middle of nowhere. Thanks for the info. After another poster contradicted my post, I looked up exploding Exploders as an urban legend, but could find no confirmation that it actually happened. The other poster said the 4Runner had the intake in the same place, but I never heard of any 4Runners having this problem. I have done stream crossings over 1' deep in my Trooper, and a friend in a Nissan Pathfinder. > Just having the Rollover Switch trigger at the worst possible moment > can be enough to ruin your whole day. As the engine dies and you > slide back into the mud bog you thought you could easily clear... Is ths Rollover Switch anything like ESC (electronic stability control) or as Toyota calls it, VSC? (V = vehicle) > Whenever we had a "Wilderness Hoodside Conference" it was rarely at > the hood of a Toyota - which is why I bought the Land Cruiser. Yes, the original Land Cruiser was one of the best. <snipped> >> Just having the Rollover Switch trigger at the worst possible moment >> can be enough to ruin your whole day. As the engine dies and you >> slide back into the mud bog you thought you could easily clear... > > Is ths Rollover Switch anything like ESC (electronic stability control) > or as Toyota calls it, VSC? (V = vehicle) VSC = vehicle stability control. A rollover switch kills the fuel pump if the vehicle is on its side or roof. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) > For one thing, SUVs are supposed to be able to go off-road, much like > trucks. I wouldn't try that with a Camry wagon And you would with a RAV4 or a Highlander? How about with a Lexus RX? They have Station Wagon written all over them. Ed "C. E. White" ... > "Wickeddoll®" ... > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Ed We will have to agree to disagree. I've driven SUVs vs. wagons. Totally different feel, IMO. I will agree they're probably the replacement of choice (as minivans were) for wagons, but the same? No. Natalie > We will have to agree to disagree. I've driven SUVs vs. wagons. Totally > different feel, IMO. I will agree they're probably the replacement of > choice (as minivans were) for wagons, but the same? No. Americans have their government to blame, so perhaps some thoughtful person (cough) will start an OT post about this. Due to the 27 mpg CAFE requirement for cars, it was more convenient for the automotive industry to classify station wagons as light trucks, where CAFE requirements are much more lenient. At first this resulted in SUV "wagons" based on truck platforms, then heightened "SUVs" based on car platforms, e.g. the Highlander. If the CAFE requirement were the same for light trucks as for cars, we'd be certain to see real station wagons again. "Bill Tuthill" ... "Wickeddoll®" wrote: > We will have to agree to disagree. I've driven SUVs vs. wagons. Totally > different feel, IMO. I will agree they're probably the replacement of > choice (as minivans were) for wagons, but the same? No. Americans have their government to blame, so perhaps some thoughtful person (cough) will start an OT post about this. Due to the 27 mpg CAFE requirement for cars, it was more convenient for the automotive industry to classify station wagons as light trucks, where CAFE requirements are much more lenient. At first this resulted in SUV "wagons" based on truck platforms, then heightened "SUVs" based on car platforms, e.g. the Highlander. If the CAFE requirement were the same for light trucks as for cars, we'd be certain to see real station wagons again. BT Actually, we're discussing cars - that's on-topic. Quite rare, I know. :-) Natalie You wouldn't be towing anything while off-road I suppose. And most importantly don't drive off road, tow and use your mobile phone at the same time, not unless a police car is chasing you and your in a Orange overall with a big P. > So what makes something an SUV as opposed to a station wagon? Perception and marketing. If the person buying the car perceives station wagons to be "bad," then the marketing team and salesman will call the station wagon an "SUV". >> So what makes something an SUV as opposed to a station wagon? > > Perception and marketing. > > If the person buying the car perceives station wagons to be "bad," then > the marketing team and salesman will call the station wagon an "SUV". Is the seating position in any station wagon as high as the seating in any SUV, incl. little ones such as the RAV4? Cathy "Cathy F." ... > "Elmo P. Shagnasty" >, >> "C. E. White" : [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Cathy The height of it is not the only reason I don't buy SUV=station wagon. Personally, I like station wagons, so I have no reason to refuse to call them that. *shrug* Natalie For me, it is matter of the platform used as the basis for the vehicle. Truck platform based = SUV. Car platform based = Crossover (new terminology), or Station Wagon (old terminology). This would make the Highlander / RAV4 Crossovers and the Land Cruiser, Sequoia, and 4Runner SUV's. Don't know what the FJ is... Jack G. > "Cathy F." ... >> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Natalie > Toyota still builds station wagons, they just don't call anything they > sell in the US a wagon. In the UK, they sell a "5 Door Estate." In the US [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > designed station wagon, but if you had sold something like that 20 years > ago, it would have been called a station wagon. This I agree with. > How about the Highlander, or the RAV4? In 1980, they would have been > classed as station wagons. I don't think anyone seriously considers these > things SUVs. They're SUVs, although the RAV4 is a small one. They sit up much higher than a station wagon & are bulkier. Cathy > For that matter, what is a 4Runner, but a really poorly design station > wagon? I suppose you could call it an SUV, but it a poor one of those too. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >> >> Maybe in ten years....LOL > They're SUVs, although the RAV4 is a small one. They sit up much higher > than a station wagon & are bulkier. Then they are two of the worst SUVs ever built. No ground clearance, minimal towing ability, minimal off road ability (and then only if you get the AWD version instead of the front wheel drive version). And when did "bulk" prevent something from being called a station wagon. Have you ever seen a Buick Roadmaster Wagon? Ed >> They're SUVs, although the RAV4 is a small one. They sit up much higher >> than a station wagon & are bulkier. > > Then they are two of the worst SUVs ever built. No ground clearance, > minimal towing ability, minimal off road ability (and then only if you get > the AWD version instead of the front wheel drive version). And when did Hmmmm...maybe the newer ones, but the older ones (ca. 1995) were a friggin' BLAST off road! You obviously weren't going to win Baja, but they could go into the woods NP... > "bulk" prevent something from being called a station wagon. Have you ever > seen a Buick Roadmaster Wagon? You maen, Roadmonster... > Ed >> They're SUVs, although the RAV4 is a small one. They sit up much higher >> than a station wagon & are bulkier. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Ed Not since I saw an episode of "I Love Lucy" Natalie Wickeddoll? wrote: > >> They're SUVs, although the RAV4 is a small one. They sit up much higher > >> than a station wagon & are bulkier. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Natalie I kinda miss the golden age of station wagons....when I was a kid me and my 3 other siblings would go on long drives with our parents in our 66 Ford Country Sedan...no seat belts of course and staring out the back window at cars or getting truckers to blow their horns. Almost every family I knew had a station wagon at the time. I guess station wagons were to the 60's what SUV's are to the 2K's. "Seerialmom" ... Wickeddoll® wrote: > "C. E. White"... > > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Natalie I kinda miss the golden age of station wagons....when I was a kid me and my 3 other siblings would go on long drives with our parents in our 66 Ford Country Sedan...no seat belts of course and staring out the back window at cars or getting truckers to blow their horns. Almost every family I knew had a station wagon at the time. I guess station wagons were to the 60's what SUV's are to the 2K's. SM Yes, as I've said before, SUVs took the place of wagons, but are not the same vehicle. Natalie > Toyota still builds station wagons, they just don't call anything they > sell in the US a wagon. In the UK, they sell a "5 Door Estate." In the US [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >> >> Maybe in ten years....LOL Why don't we call them "estate cars" or something exotic like that? Don't they call them shooting brakes at one time? Doesn't Delaware still license them as P/C (Pleasure Commercial)? Charles of Schaumburg > Wife had a Volvo station wagon and after some years she replaced it with a > new Camry XLE. The XLE is great but she missed the space and function of the > wagon whenever she does some major shopping. She doesn't like the mini vans > or SUVs as its too big and not so good on gas. If nothing else is available > it seems like she is go back for a new Volvo wagon again. Will Toyota make a > Camry or Avalon wagon? They do...they just don't import them any more. Maybe, someday. They were selling the Yaris in other parts of the world 3 years before they started selling it here... > Will Toyota make a Camry or Avalon wagon? Not likely for the 'States, IMO. As you can see, enough people -- in U.S.A. at least -- mistake the presentday Highlander for a station wagon as to make it moot. I have a low-mileage 1990 wagon. 1990 is on that trim, pre-pregnancy, pre-turdmobile platform that runs forever as long as it doesn't get run over. SignatureDerald >> Will Toyota make a Camry or Avalon wagon? > Not likely for the 'States, IMO. As you can see, enough people -- >in U.S.A. at least -- mistake the presentday Highlander for a station >wagon as to make it moot. I have a low-mileage 1990 wagon. 1990 is on >that trim, pre-pregnancy, pre-turdmobile platform that runs forever as >long as it doesn't get run over. Yup.... I've got a '92 Corolla wagon that is doing just fine at 204,000. I see a few Camry wagons running around. I have NO idea why they don't make a Camry and Corolla Wagon. I might buy one in ten year...LOL SignatureScott in Florida I love my 1985 Tercel wagon. ---voice from the past > Wife had a Volvo station wagon and after some years she replaced it with a > new Camry XLE. The XLE is great but she missed the space and function of the > wagon whenever she does some major shopping. She doesn't like the mini vans > or SUVs as its too big and not so good on gas. If nothing else is available > it seems like she is go back for a new Volvo wagon again. Will Toyota make a > Camry or Avalon wagon? > Wife had a Volvo station wagon and after some years she replaced it with a > new Camry XLE. The XLE is great but she missed the space and function of > the wagon whenever she does some major shopping. She doesn't like the mini > vans or SUVs as its too big and not so good on gas. If nothing else is > available it seems like she is go back for a new Volvo wagon again. Will > Toyota make a Camry or Avalon wagon? I used to love that Corolla wagon, but by the time I could afford one, they stopped making them. :-P Natalie >> Wife had a Volvo station wagon and after some years she replaced it with a >> new Camry XLE. The XLE is great but she missed the space and function of [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Natalie On my next trip north, I'll let you see mine....LOL SignatureScott in Florida And the next station wagon will be AWD? > And the next station wagon will be AWD? I wish. I liked my 20 YO Tercel AWD... The Matrix is available with AWD, however. They do. Look at the Avensis Tourer. <http://tinyurl.com/2ll5al> > They do. Look at the Avensis Tourer. > > <http://tinyurl.com/2ll5al> Not available in North America. >They do. Look at the Avensis Tourer. > ><http://tinyurl.com/2ll5al> Too bad they don't import them to North America.... SignatureScott in Florida >>They do. Look at the Avensis Tourer. >> >><http://tinyurl.com/2ll5al> > > Too bad they don't import them to North America.... The Avensis is a nice quiet car and reasonably roomy. I have the Mk 1 which looks like a BMW 3 series http://www.carsource.co.uk/photos/toav9801.jpg - I think better looking than the current model which is not a big seller because of the looks. I expect to model soon, as Toyota don't hang about. A friend of mine works for Toyota UK and gets a new company car every 9 months from them. They had a Lexus and then went for the Avensis. I asked them if there was any big difference. They said only in speed as the Lexus had a larger engine. They said the ride, handling and quietness was equal. |
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