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Car Forum / Toyota / Toyota Cars / January 2007

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Coefficient of Drag

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Bill Tuthill - 20 Jan 2007 20:15 GMT
Recently I've been wondering why truck manufacturers, including Toyota,
don't do a better job making pickup trucks aerodynamic.  Nowadays
fuel economy at speeds > 55 mph is determined mostly by air resistance,
not vehicle weight or engine size.

This article says my Prius has a .29 coefficient of drag (cD), while
the Honda Insight has a .25 cD.  Would Prius cD improve by installing
rear-wheel fenders?  They're ugly on the Insight but what else could
explain the huge difference between .25 and .29 cD?

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/fueleconomy/articles/45188/article.html

I remember .29 is what our 1994 Volvo 850 wagon had, but looking up
this information now on the web, answers vary from .32 to .33 cD.
I'm fairly certain the wagon had better cD than the sedan, so maybe
the wagon was .32 and the sedan was .33.

The teardrop is the most aerodynamic shape, so wagons have an advantage
in that they start out closer to the best shape, although glass in the
rear windows is heavier than a trunk lid.  Teardrop also might be why
pickup truck owners report improved fuel economy with a camper shell.

The Tundrasolutions.com website (owned by Toyota?) reports the Tundra
has a cD ranging from .37 - .38 depending on model.

The 2007 Chevy Silverado has a cD of .43, reportedly "best in class"
according to Wards Auto, so something is amiss here.
Mike Hunter - 20 Jan 2007 20:59 GMT
Actually they are doing a better job the higher box sides, like on the F150
an the Silverado, are part of the reason.  Trucks are designed to be trucks,
pretty hard to get a bunch of passengers and cargo into something shaped
like the Pruis that looks like a door stop.

Yeas ago GM and others tried designing streamlined trucks and even
locomotives and railroad cars.   The problem for trucks was the streaming
and extra weight reduced load capacity that offset the economy gained

mike

> Recently I've been wondering why truck manufacturers, including Toyota,
> don't do a better job making pickup trucks aerodynamic.  Nowadays
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> The 2007 Chevy Silverado has a cD of .43, reportedly "best in class"
> according to Wards Auto, so something is amiss here.
Ray O - 20 Jan 2007 23:06 GMT
> Recently I've been wondering why truck manufacturers, including Toyota,
> don't do a better job making pickup trucks aerodynamic.  Nowadays
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> rear windows is heavier than a trunk lid.  Teardrop also might be why
> pickup truck owners report improved fuel economy with a camper shell.

I've read that the most aerodynamic shape looks more like a banana , with
the ends of the banana pointing downwards.  A truncated back end will create
a low pressure area immediately behind the vehicle and increase drag.

The other area that people often forget about is the undercarriage.  A
shield under the engine compartment will help reduce drag.

> The Tundrasolutions.com website (owned by Toyota?) reports the Tundra
> has a cD ranging from .37 - .38 depending on model.
>
> The 2007 Chevy Silverado has a cD of .43, reportedly "best in class"
> according to Wards Auto, so something is amiss here.

Since the 2007 Trunda is not for sale yet, the Silverado probably is "best
in class" for cD.
Signature


Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

Bill Tuthill - 21 Jan 2007 18:05 GMT
> I've read that the most aerodynamic shape looks more like a banana, with
> the ends of the banana pointing downwards.  A truncated back end will create
> a low pressure area immediately behind the vehicle and increase drag.

Maybe this has to do with whether aerodynamicity refers to a falling raindrop
or a vehicle moving along the ground?

The teardrop is the reverse of my expectations: the blunt end is in front,
with the tapered end at the back.

> The other area that people often forget about is the undercarriage.  A
> shield under the engine compartment will help reduce drag.

Aha, another use for skid plate!  ;-)

> Since the 2007 Trunda is not for sale yet, the Silverado probably is
> "best in class" for cD.

That explains it, thanks.

A friend got 23 MPG from his 1999(?) Silverado small V8 on the highway,
with camper shell and nothing on the roof.  The EPA for that vehicle
was 21 MPG highway.  Pretty good for a pickup truck, eh?  His mileage
went down when he replaced the crappy factory tires.  (They were crappy
off-road anyway, but obviously had low rolling resistance.)
Ray O - 21 Jan 2007 19:01 GMT
>> I've read that the most aerodynamic shape looks more like a banana, with
>> the ends of the banana pointing downwards.  A truncated back end will
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> The teardrop is the reverse of my expectations: the blunt end is in front,
> with the tapered end at the back.

There are many things that contribute to drag and make the propulsion system
work harder.  Anything that contributes to turbulence will increase drag.
The spoilers and wings on an Indy car are smaller for high speed races than
for road races, where the additional downforce to aid cornering is more
important than reducing drag.

Having the pointy end at the back of the car reduces the turbulence and drag
behind the car.  A blunt rear end creates a low pressure area, which sucks
the car backwards, but a vehicle following in the low pressure area doesn't
have to work as hard to move through the low pressure area, the principle
behind drafting in races.

>> The other area that people often forget about is the undercarriage.  A
>> shield under the engine compartment will help reduce drag.
>
> Aha, another use for skid plate!  ;-)

could be!

>> Since the 2007 Trunda is not for sale yet, the Silverado probably is
>> "best in class" for cD.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> went down when he replaced the crappy factory tires.  (They were crappy
> off-road anyway, but obviously had low rolling resistance.)

The tailgate on a pickup can act as a large wind brake.  Shells and tonneau
covers keep air away from the tailgate and reduce drag, as does lowering or
removing the tailgate or replacing it with a net or mesh.
Signature


Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

Tomes - 21 Jan 2007 21:44 GMT
> Having the pointy end at the back of the car reduces the turbulence and
> drag behind the car.  A blunt rear end creates a low pressure area,
> which sucks the car backwards, but a vehicle following in the low
> pressure area doesn't have to work as hard to move through the low
> pressure area, the principle behind drafting in races.

This gets me to thinking about drafting behind trucks on the highway to
save fuel.  Just how close does one need to be to make this effective
(notwithstanding safety issues of being that close).  How about for behind
a pickup or a 'regular' car?
Tomes
Ray O - 21 Jan 2007 23:58 GMT
>> Having the pointy end at the back of the car reduces the turbulence and
>> drag behind the car.  A blunt rear end creates a low pressure area, which
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> a pickup or a 'regular' car?
> Tomes
Notwithstanding safety issues, depending on speed and the shape of the
leading vehicle, you probably need to be within 1 to 3 feet.
Signature


Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

Andrew Stephenson - 21 Jan 2007 23:13 GMT
> [...] A blunt rear end creates a low pressure area, which sucks
> the car backwards, [...]

OTOH, a while back I posted this [trimmed]...

> Subject: Re: $30,000 for a PRIUS?
> Message-ID: <1150129866snz@deltrak.demon.co.uk>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> [...]

I'd be interested to hear whether the WW2 ship story is true.  My
source was an engineering-oriented schoolmaster, in my teens (ie,
early 60s).
Signature

Andrew Stephenson

Ray O - 22 Jan 2007 04:38 GMT
>> [...] A blunt rear end creates a low pressure area, which sucks
>> the car backwards, [...]
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> source was an engineering-oriented schoolmaster, in my teens (ie,
> early 60s).

I think the chopped off rear end does not contribute to streamlining because
of the low pressure areas created by the squared end.  Cars have chopped off
rear ends because a streamlined one would either make the car too long or
the passenger compartment too low.

GM's Sunraycer solar powered car
http://americanhistory.si.edu/onthemove/collection/object_362.html is a good
example of a low-drag design.

On the damaged ship, the story I recall hearing is that the bow was damaged,
patched, and towed stern-first to reduce the strain on the patches, and that
towing it backwards worked well.
Signature


Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

Andrew Stephenson - 22 Jan 2007 12:01 GMT
> On the damaged ship, the story I recall hearing is that the bow
> was damaged, patched, and towed stern-first to reduce the
> strain on the patches, and that towing it backwards worked
> well.

Backwards.  Aha.  Rather different.  (And, ever since, though we
don't know it, "performance" ships have been _built_ backwards.)
Puzzlingly, the context of the version I heard was it apparently
revealed a new way of shaping ship sterns.  Oh well, I shall see
what explanations come my way in future.
Signature

Andrew Stephenson

Mike Hunter - 21 Jan 2007 20:49 GMT
Both the 2007 Tundra and Silverado were compared by MT for the truck of the
year award,  The Tundra lost out in that comparison.   ;)

mike

>> Recently I've been wondering why truck manufacturers, including Toyota,
>> don't do a better job making pickup trucks aerodynamic.  Nowadays
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
> Since the 2007 Trunda is not for sale yet, the Silverado probably is "best
> in class" for cD.
Ray O - 21 Jan 2007 23:57 GMT
> Both the 2007 Tundra and Silverado were compared by MT for the truck of
> the year award,  The Tundra lost out in that comparison.   ;)
>
> mike

From what I have seen and read of the 2007 Tundra, it is a much better truck
than the previous generation Tundra and getting closer to the F series Ford
and Silverado in utility but have not passed them yet.  I predict that a few
more people will purchase it as a work truck than the previous Tundra but it
will still appeal primarily to urban cowboys.
Signature


Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

larry moe 'n curly - 22 Jan 2007 00:40 GMT
> I've read that the most aerodynamic shape looks more like a banana , with
> the ends of the banana pointing downwards.

Is that why the Oscar Meyer wienermobile, with the ends of the hot dog
pointing upward, has never broken any speed records at the Bonneville
Salt Flats?
Ray O - 22 Jan 2007 04:24 GMT
>> I've read that the most aerodynamic shape looks more like a banana , with
>> the ends of the banana pointing downwards.
>
> Is that why the Oscar Meyer wienermobile, with the ends of the hot dog
> pointing upward, has never broken any speed records at the Bonneville
> Salt Flats?

Yup, they should have flipped the dog over!
Signature


Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

username@mailserver.mail - 20 Jan 2007 23:42 GMT
>Recently I've been wondering why truck manufacturers, including Toyota,
>don't do a better job making pickup trucks aerodynamic.  Nowadays
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>The 2007 Chevy Silverado has a cD of .43, reportedly "best in class"
>according to Wards Auto, so something is amiss here.

Bill, I agree that truck manufacturers could be doing things to
improve the aerodynamics of some trucks, but most of those things
would nat make the truck "look" more massive so they get put on the
back burner.

Two comments on your input above:

1) Granted a tear drop is the most aerodynamic shape, but it is blunt
end forward, not pointy end, and the tear drop works so well because
the fluid is constantly being swept toward the back to be replaced by
the next "layer" of fluid. It is a lot like the action of team bicycle
racers. The lead racer peals off to rest in the back while the rest of
the pack forges on.

2) I have always wondered why automotive manufacturers advertize CD
(Coeficient of Drag) rather than D (Drag). In order to compute D for a
vehicle, you multiply CD * Frontal area. It is Drag that your engine
has to push through the wind, not CD. CD is the measure of resistance
per unit area.

That is one of the reasons the exact same car with narrow wide tires
will get better mileage than one with wide tires. The wide tires add
to the frontal area.

Take two cars with the same CD that weigh the same. Drive them at the
same speed over the same course. the one with the smaller frontal area
will get better gas mileage.
Bill Tuthill - 21 Jan 2007 18:18 GMT
> 2) I have always wondered why automotive manufacturers advertize CD
> (Coeficient of Drag) rather than D (Drag). In order to compute D for a
> vehicle, you multiply CD * Frontal area. It is Drag that your engine
> has to push through the wind, not CD. CD is the measure of resistance
> per unit area.

Holy smokes!  This is a huge revelation to me.  Thanks.

> That is one of the reasons the exact same car with narrow wide tires
> will get better mileage than one with wide tires. The wide tires add
> to the frontal area.  Take two cars with the same CD that weigh the same.
> Drive them at the same speed over the same course.  The one with the
> smaller frontal area will get better gas mileage.

Pickup trucks should have an advantage over SUVs because they are
generally lower profile.

The reason I'm thinking about this is that a(nother) friend has a
relatively new Silverado and reports that fuel economy is worse now
than the one he bought 10 years ago, especially with a full load.

Just looking at the windshield wipers and underside, it looks like
the manufacturers could make 10-20% improvements in fuel economy
with only minor engineering changes.
Ray O - 21 Jan 2007 19:13 GMT
>> 2) I have always wondered why automotive manufacturers advertize CD
>> (Coeficient of Drag) rather than D (Drag). In order to compute D for a
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Pickup trucks should have an advantage over SUVs because they are
> generally lower profile.

Actually, some pickups have the same or a higher profile than comparable
SUV's.  The tailgage on pickups are a pretty big source of drag.  The
biggest advantage pickups have over an SUV bases on the same chassis is
weight.  Without the interior trim, carpets, seats, sheet metal, AC and
heating capacity, etc., the pickup will weigh less.

> The reason I'm thinking about this is that a(nother) friend has a
> relatively new Silverado and reports that fuel economy is worse now
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> the manufacturers could make 10-20% improvements in fuel economy
> with only minor engineering changes.

There are many reasons your friend's new Silverado gets worse mileage.  The
new one is probably larger and weighs more and has more amenities that add
weight.  It may have a larger engine or be heavier-duty than the old one.
Signature


Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

Andrew Stephenson - 20 Jan 2007 23:54 GMT
> This article says my Prius has a .29 coefficient of drag (cD),
> [...]

Then the article disagrees with commonly available authoritative
data sheets, that (no doubt while lying through their collective
teeth) claim 0.26 -- not a big error but whattheheck. <g>

> Would Prius cD improve by installing rear-wheel fenders?

If so, I suspect Toyota would have installed them.  Overall fuel
efficiency is a selling point on that model.  T would be keen to
improve the Cd wherever possible.
Signature

Andrew Stephenson

Bill Tuthill - 21 Jan 2007 18:15 GMT
>> [Edumunds.com] says Prius has a .29 coefficient of drag (cD).
>
> Then the article disagrees with commonly available authoritative
> data sheets, that (no doubt while lying through their collective
> teeth) claim 0.26 -- not a big error but whattheheck. <g>

Aha!  So Toyota managed to nearly equal the Insight without specifying
rear-wheel fenders, which make tire changes more difficult.

The Honda Insight is also very noisy inside at highway speeds.
I'd rather pay more for gasoline than lose my hearing.
Ray O - 21 Jan 2007 19:09 GMT
>>> [Edumunds.com] says Prius has a .29 coefficient of drag (cD).
>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> The Honda Insight is also very noisy inside at highway speeds.
> I'd rather pay more for gasoline than lose my hearing.

There are lots of tricks to reduce drag and improve fuel mileage besides
fender skirts. Reducing interior sound insulation saves weight.  I expect to
see exterior rearview mirrors go away, replaced by cameras that doesn't
stick out into the airstream.

The Prius has some subtle design tricks that maintain decent interior room
without major contributions to drag.  Look at the roofline from behind, and
notice that the centerline of the roof is lower than the left and right
side.
Signature


Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

Bill Tuthill - 23 Jan 2007 03:57 GMT
> I expect to see exterior rearview mirrors go away, replaced by cameras
> that don't stick out into the airstream.

Good idea!

> The Prius has some subtle design tricks that maintain decent interior room
> without major contributions to drag.  Look at the roofline from behind,
> and notice that the centerline of the roof is lower than the left and
> right side.
   
Is that entirely to increase headroom for driver and passenger, and outside
positions in the rear seat, or does it have aerodynamic purpose?

Coyoteboy <coyoteboyspuduk@hotmail.com> wrote:

> How, exactly, does a pickup with a camper shell look anything like a
> teardrop?

Well, more like a teardrop than a pickup without camper shell, which has
a dead area behind the cab, a wind baffle at the far back, and another
dead area behind the tailgate.  Anecdotal evidence says driving with
the gate down increase fuel economy about 10%.

> c) the drag co-eff of a car is determined by a lot more than just the
> overall body shape, as you mention the wheel arch areas create vast losses
> and the underbody is by far the worst and most messy area aerodynamically.

Couldn't 4WD and high-clearance vehicles have a retractable front shield
that the driver could remotely extend down below the grille at high speeds?
Obviously this stuff needs to be computer-modelled, but if the underside
is such a huge aerodynamic problem, it seems that cost-effective solutions
could be provided.
Cathy F. - 23 Jan 2007 04:06 GMT
>> I expect to see exterior rearview mirrors go away, replaced by cameras
>> that don't stick out into the airstream.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> outside
> positions in the rear seat, or does it have aerodynamic purpose?

Aerodynamic.

Cathy

> Coyoteboy <coyoteboyspuduk@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> is such a huge aerodynamic problem, it seems that cost-effective solutions
> could be provided.
Wickeddoll® - 23 Jan 2007 04:15 GMT
"Cathy F." <...

> "Bill Tuthill" ...
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Cathy

OK did I miss something?  Looks like that's what he said?

Natalie, cornfuzzled.
Cathy F. - 23 Jan 2007 04:37 GMT
> "Cathy F." <...
>>
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>>
> OK did I miss something?  Looks like that's what he said?

AFAICT, one said it, & the other (latter) asked.

Cathy

> Natalie, cornfuzzled.
Tomes - 23 Jan 2007 04:38 GMT
> "Cathy F." <...
>> "Bill Tuthill" ...
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> Natalie, cornfuzzled.
No, Cathy answered Bill's question: whether it was for headroom or for
aerodynamic purposes.  It is for aerodynamic purposes or at least not for
headroom.  I just went out to look at mine and noticed 2 things.  First,
the lowest points of the roofline are exactly over one's head whist one
sits in there.  Second, on the inside, the interior roof goes in a uniform
arc across the top - does not bulge up (or bulge at all) for added
headroom where heads go.
Tomes
Bill Tuthill - 23 Jan 2007 05:22 GMT
>>>> The Prius has subtle design tricks that maintain decent interior room
>>>> without major contributions to drag.  Look at the roofline from behind,
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> OK did I miss something?  Looks like that's what he said?
> Natalie, cornfuzzled.

Note the words "maintain decent interior room" without increasing drag.
I can't see how those Prius side humps would help, except to maintain
forward momentum in a crosswind.
Ray O - 23 Jan 2007 06:10 GMT
"Wickeddoll®" <wickeddoll1958diespammersdie@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> The Prius has subtle design tricks that maintain decent interior room
>>>> without major contributions to drag.  Look at the roofline from behind,
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> OK did I miss something?  Looks like that's what he said?
> Natalie, cornfuzzled.

Note the words "maintain decent interior room" without increasing drag.
I can't see how those Prius side humps would help, except to maintain
forward momentum in a crosswind.

******
Tomes blew my headroom theory out the window, at least the aerodynamic part
should still be valid :-).  The humps will not maintain forward momentum in
a crosswind.
Signature


Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

Tomes - 24 Jan 2007 02:42 GMT
> "Wickeddoll®" <wickeddoll1958diespammersdie@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> The Prius has subtle design tricks that maintain decent interior
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> Ray O

Sorry Ray....   [grin]
Ray O - 24 Jan 2007 05:46 GMT
>> Note the words "maintain decent interior room" without increasing drag.
>> I can't see how those Prius side humps would help, except to maintain
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Sorry Ray....   [grin]

Apology accepted ;-)

I really try not to make too many car mistakes, but they sometimes slip
through.  Join TeGGeR, Bruce, qslsm, MDTech, and Philip's "Caught Ray's
Mistake" club.
Signature


Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

Tomes - 24 Jan 2007 19:39 GMT
> I really try not to make too many car mistakes, but they sometimes slip
> through.  Join TeGGeR, Bruce, qslsm, MDTech, and Philip's "Caught Ray's
> Mistake" club.

Whatever happened to those guys?
Ray O - 24 Jan 2007 19:48 GMT
>> I really try not to make too many car mistakes, but they sometimes slip
>> through.  Join TeGGeR, Bruce, qslsm, MDTech, and Philip's "Caught Ray's
>> Mistake" club.
>
> Whatever happened to those guys?

Bruce and TeGGeR occasionally chime in here.  qslm joined the U.S. Air Force
{thank you qslm for stepping up to the plate!!!}but still shows up here
occasionally.  MDTech, Philip, Bruce, and TeGGeR hang out at a Toyota yahoo
group that they moderate.
Signature


Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

Andrew Stephenson - 23 Jan 2007 11:41 GMT
> Note the words "maintain decent interior room" without increasing drag.
> I can't see how those Prius side humps would help, except to maintain
> forward momentum in a crosswind.

Stiffening the body as whole?  Bracing for door frames?  Provide
conduits for cabling and such?  A place to attach a roof rack if
you must?  It's likely to be a mixture of reasons: common in the
Prius design.
Signature

Andrew Stephenson

Mark - 23 Jan 2007 14:04 GMT
Maybe the humps are there to make the Prius even uglier than it already
is (speaking of things common in the Prius design).

> > Note the words "maintain decent interior room" without increasing drag.
> > I can't see how those Prius side humps would help, except to maintain
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> you must?  It's likely to be a mixture of reasons: common in the
> Prius design.
Andrew Stephenson - 23 Jan 2007 15:16 GMT
> > > Note the words "maintain decent interior room" without increasing drag.
> > > I can't see how those Prius side humps would help, except to maintain
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Maybe the humps are there to make the Prius even uglier than it
> already is (speaking of things common in the Prius design).

I thought it was only we aesthete Prius owners who cared about
such details.  So nice to know others are also getting it. :-)
Signature

Andrew Stephenson

Bill Tuthill - 24 Jan 2007 01:13 GMT
> Stiffening the body as whole?  Bracing for door frames?  Provide
> conduits for cabling and such?  A place to attach a roof rack if
> you must?  It's likely to be a mixture of reasons: common in the
> Prius design.

As I sat driving the Prius yesterday, it occurred to me, maybe
steel reinforcement for rollover protection.
Ray O - 23 Jan 2007 04:29 GMT
>> I expect to see exterior rearview mirrors go away, replaced by cameras
>> that don't stick out into the airstream.
>
> Good idea!

That idea was on some concept cars at the auto show last year, they will
proably start to appear in luxury production cars soon.

>> The Prius has some subtle design tricks that maintain decent interior
>> room
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> outside
> positions in the rear seat, or does it have aerodynamic purpose?

My guess is that the depression in the centerline is a way to reduce drag
while maintaining headroom for the occupants.

> Coyoteboy <coyoteboyspuduk@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> is such a huge aerodynamic problem, it seems that cost-effective solutions
> could be provided.

Front spoilers and air dams are generally designed to prevent air from
building up under the undercarriage and creating lift, which is bad for
traction and cornering.

A simpler solution is to design the undercarriage to reduce drag so the air
flows smoothly under the car.
Signature


Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

Andrew Stephenson - 23 Jan 2007 11:38 GMT
> A simpler solution is to design the undercarriage to reduce
> drag so the air flows smoothly under the car.

Makes sense.  At the same time, one probably gains a splash guard
(which my Volvo 440s had and benefited from, on meeting puddles).
Signature

Andrew Stephenson

C. E. White - 24 Jan 2007 14:44 GMT
> Well, more like a teardrop than a pickup without camper shell, which
> has
> a dead area behind the cab, a wind baffle at the far back, and
> another
> dead area behind the tailgate.  Anecdotal evidence says driving with
> the gate down increase fuel economy about 10%.

Any credible test I have seen shows that driving with the tailgate
down increases fuel consumption relative to driving with the tailgate
closed. The "Mythbusters" beat this one to death. In their experiments
(not perfect by any means), tailgate up beat tailgate down, but
tailgate net (OE tailgate removed) beat both. I am not sure why the
net would be better than either of the other options, but that was
their results. Lots of other tests have shown tailgate up is better
than tailgate down. It is possible no tailgate at all might be the
best. At least that way you are removing some weight. For years the
first thing my Father did when he got a new pick-up for the farm was
to remove the tailgate and store it in the barn. Always looked funny
when he traded trucks - beat up truck with a near perfect tailgate.

Ed
Mark - 24 Jan 2007 14:55 GMT
Good post Ed, here's some more evidence -

http://www.cartalk.com/content/columns/Archive/1997/October/05.html

On Jan 24, 9:44 am, "C. E. White" <cewhi...@removemindspring.com>
wrote:
> > Well, more like a teardrop than a pickup without camper shell, which
> > has
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Ed
Bill Tuthill - 24 Jan 2007 20:22 GMT
> Good post Ed, here's some more evidence [tailgate down is worse] -
>
> http://www.cartalk.com/content/columns/Archive/1997/October/05.html

Interesting.  Moreover, stuff doesn't fall out as much with it closed.

Anybody know whether a camper shell is better than with-tailgate closed?
I would assume that the smooth-roof camper shells would be superior
to those with a hump.
Danny G. - 24 Jan 2007 23:10 GMT
>> Good post Ed, here's some more evidence [tailgate down is worse] -
>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> I would assume that the smooth-roof camper shells would be superior
> to those with a hump.

I drove a 1967 El Camino about 300,000 miles that had a removable shell & carpeted insert.
They would  improve my highway mileage 2+mpg and the weight made it handle much better.

Dan

oh ya, it was a 283ci V8
C. E. White - 25 Jan 2007 14:20 GMT
>> Good post Ed, here's some more evidence [tailgate down is worse] -
>>
>> http://www.cartalk.com/content/columns/Archive/1997/October/05.html
>
> Interesting.  Moreover, stuff doesn't fall out as much with it
> closed.

You would think so, but despite removing the tailgate from most of his
pick-ups, my Father never had anything fall out the rear. But he was a
careful driver. In almost 70 years of driving he never had a ticket
and he only had one collision while he was driving (he hit a deer).

My Father always had some sort of farm dog. Most loved to ride in the
rear of the  truck. It always worried me that they might jump out
while truck was moving. When I asked him if the dogs ever did that, he
said, they usually only tried it once [and they learned their lesson -
I don't think one was actually injured].

One more thing, when you ride in the back of a pick-up truck you
notice that things in the bed tend to blow towards the cab, not out
the back. Even with the tailgate in place and closed, things still
tend to blow up against the front wall of the bed. This supports the
idea that there is a rotating "bubble of air" formed in the bed.

Ed
Coyoteboy - 22 Jan 2007 10:18 GMT
> The teardrop is the most aerodynamic shape, so wagons have an advantage
> in that they start out closer to the best shape, although glass in the
> rear windows is heavier than a trunk lid.  Teardrop also might be why
> pickup truck owners report improved fuel economy with a camper shell.

How, exactly, does a pickup with a camper shell look anything like a
teardrop? The teardrop shape has to be fat end first and long thin tail
after to be vaguely aerodynamic (so without the shell would be better if
were going teardrop-analogous). But also
a) We were always taught a teardrop shape isn't the most aerodynamic shape
(urban myth), the rear end of the teardrop is ideal, the front is not. A
standard kiddies fish shape is far better as a teardrop has too much of a
bulbous front. The teardrop is a trade-off of water weight, surface tension
and air resistance all of which are very important at the scale of a drop
but not in the same orders when on the scale of a car.
b)The camper shell helps the situation because it removes the giant
step-down at the rear of the cab which causes turbulence and back-flowing
of the air which creates low pressure behind the cab and attempts to slow
the cab down. As well as creating messy flow after it.
c) the drag co-eff of a car is determined by a lot more than just the
overall body shape, as you mention the wheel arch areas create vast losses
and the underbody is by far the worst and most messy area aerodynamically.
It could be that certain models have a fuel tank in a different place which
aids the flow below the back axle instead of through it all, for example.
Andrew Stephenson - 22 Jan 2007 12:06 GMT
> [...]  The teardrop is a trade-off of water weight, surface
> tension and air resistance all of which are very important at
> the scale of a drop but not in the same orders when on the
> scale of a car.
> [...]

On top of that, (according to someone in the meteorology NG) real
raindrops are not shaped like picture-raindrops.  Pressure on the
leading surface flattens it while any tail collapses and the drop
becomes a ragged disc.
Signature

Andrew Stephenson

Coyoteboy - 22 Jan 2007 13:16 GMT
>> [...]  The teardrop is a trade-off of water weight, surface
>> tension and air resistance all of which are very important at
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> leading surface flattens it while any tail collapses and the drop
> becomes a ragged disc.

Yup, thats correct good point, initially the drop forms normal drop shape
but then rapidly turns into a ragged disc as you mention - presumably as
the apparent wind speed increases the different forces contribute
differently to shape.
 
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